Cliff Jacobson gave an entertaining but somewhat frustrating presentation on "bear-proofing your camp" at Canoecopia this weekend.  He's a GREAT speaker, but he spent 90% of his time making 2 points: bears are smart and bears climb trees: these are two important premises to remember when bearproofing your camp, but I was hoping for a few more specific recommendations!  With only 5 minutes left he said, "I don't hang my food pack, I hide it; and I control the odor of my food..." Then the lights came up and the show was over   

He gave several book references:
Bear Attacks -- Their Causes and Avoidance (Herrero)
Bear Encounter Survival Guide (Shelton)
Expedition Canoeing (Jacobson)

Has anyone read these?  Do they contain the specifics that were missing at the lecture? 

We had a bear in our camp last year on Polly L...first time in 20 years.  It was actually kind of exciting, but it made me more curious to know what to do and what NOT to do.

prouboy

OLDSALT-this is what I do 2....But I vacuum bag rather than ziplocks and the food pack has two plastic liners bags-wet food is a drag. The garbage is kept to a minimum and double bagged in extra ziplocks and plastic bags-dry garbage is e-zer, and EVERYTHING is packed out. I also use the pot alarm technique (one can use beaners and pots even when hanging foodpacks) or stash the pack under the canoe. I also ask for the problem bear reports, so I know what I am walking into, forest service and outfitters that covering your entry point is a good place to start. I hang the food when I have a heads up that there is a Bear that has been habituated I also do not leave my food pack and such unattended, even on the portages, if I have a report. Polly is notorious, actually the lady chain....Heads up on the busy routes/lakes. On the busy lakes I hang the pack and am very aware of my personal goals, do not contribute/create a problem bear. I am sure that there is much info on the levels of aggression regarding Black Bears and all of the "dos and donts", dont forget that an understanding of their biology is very helpful too. I have had Bears in camp, portages, and encountered them on backpacking trips, I think the most important things is to keep your head.......DAAAH!  and we are the culprits in the creation of problem Bears. Use your ears and eyes and noses on the portages and when cooking.....I have headded a couple of bear experiences off just by being familiar(accidentally) with what smacking bear lips sound like! I wonder if there any audio tapes of black bears-how about the bear center as a resource?- isn't there one in Ely or is that Hovland? Heard the bear noises on the Kelso Mountain portage once and smelled the odor of rotten food the food pack did not leave my side nor did my 4 year old and a week latter we saw the bear on the return trip swimming across Zeineth(are island camps bear free u be the judge). I have also had a BIG BEAR in camp on Beth, saw him skirt the camp during the baking of a pan of brownies the food pack was spread over a 100 ft2 area and my 2 yrs old was watching the fire.....needless to said I got a lot of looks the next morning-I assume that was from all of the big noise and yelling I did when I walked the Bear out of camp-The big boy was not real fast on his departure-that made me mad and the noise reflected that-But I knew what I was walking into as I had been warned from the folks at Sawbill that there was a problem bear on the Lady chain-latter that summer there were packs being taken of the portages by what I assume to be the same BIG BEAR, great potential for the bear hunters as this guy was the biggest black I have ever seen including the trips to Ontario. I got to know the bear aggression sounds, sort off the same sound as the sucking sound that is made when walking through deep mud, on a superior hiking trail trip when my group came across a sow with cubs on one memorial day weekend-I needed to retie the boots and when I came across them they were snapping flash pictures of the sow-25 yds off the trail-and the two tiny cubs that were in a tree-needless to say I got them moving again and left the moma  and baby bears in peace. Well, I guess those are my stories and input....be responsible and educate yourselves. Dont forget about wannagans and other "bear proof" food containers-I also use nalgene jars when I pack the food......Here is another ? Does one respond to big cats the same as bears-there are differences and they should be discussed.....PREPARATION for all of the POSSIBILITIES!

Puckster wrote on Mar 16^th, 2009 at 3:05am:

Bears spend even more time on the ground than in trees...so I like to hang my food pack.  They also enjoy swimming so island sites are not sure to keep them away either.

Go snow dog!

db wrote on Mar 21^st, 2009 at 7:05am:


And consider this. A bloodhound is able to track a human being by sensing the trail of sloughed dead skin cells left behind even a fast running person. If you have any allusions of "smell proofing" your food, camp or even your tracks forget it. If a bear comes into your camp it will know what you had for dinner, and if you opened your food box in camp mr. bear probably knows what meals you have planned for the rest of your trip. Being opportunistic he probably evaluates the strength of the smells and then determines if it is worth the effort to try and capitalize on it based on past experiences. Keep the smells to a minimum and keep the food relatively inaccessible and you might win the game most of the time.

Go to your bulk food store and get a big jar of cayenne pepper. Powder that barrel with it every night. I don't think a sensitive nose would like that. Like a bear spray, only cheaper and more proactive.

I've said this before but I'll say it again...the best defense against bears is to be careful with your route and campsite selection.  Stay out of areas known to have problem bears and check each potential campsite carefully for bear activity.  This is easier to do in Quetico where there are fewer problem bears and (usually) fewer problem campers who may have stayed at a site before you.

Beyond that, I prefer to camp on smaller islands (less reason for a bear to even bother to check it out, unless he's learned there is sometimes food to be had), out on the tips of long peninsulas with lots of open water around, and avoid necked-down areas where bears might choose to make an easy crossing of a lake.  Bears can and will swim, but prefer to walk.  Take advantage of that.

Other than that, keep a clean campsite, fillet fish away from camp, and seal up your food.  I don't have too many illusions about odor these days.  Odor-proofing isn't bearproof, but it can't hurt.

As you said, prouboy, whatever seems to work.  Proving a negative is hard..."bears can't find my food if I follow [insert your system here]".  It's like trying to prove Martians don't exist.  Just because we haven't seen any isn't any kind of proof at all. 

Study the "enemy" and know his habits.  Design your system around that, knowing nothing is foolproof.  It works until it doesn't work.  You're never more than 2 days away from civilization so you won't starve.  You just might have to end a trip early due to another of the many hazards in the woods. 

Life is a calculated risk.  It goes much better when you know more variables in the equation.

Actually islands, especially the smaller ones in spring are bear magnets since that's where moose like to calve. The one that ate my gas can had an earlier fight with a cow over her calf.

After their argument, she saw me and stopped only long enough for her calf to catch up didn't care one bit I was standing on the path and just kept coming. She walked around my tent and right through the middle of my campsite, calf in tow. I just scrambled to get out of her way. She kept an eye on me with a wild look I'll never forget.

The bear followed them until it found me and decided to try his luck on something smaller. He didn't give up so I left the island and went a couple hundred yards to the closest mainland to repack and have breakfast. As I began unloading I see that darn bear swimming right towards me. So I load up again, grab a few rocks and paddled out for a meet and greet assuming he couldn't catch me in the canoe, I made it as unpleasant for him as possible. He had a bad morning overall. I figure I gave mama moose an hour or two head start.

Anyway... I walk around a lot. Dug up ant hills occur just as frequently on islands as mainland in my experience. I came across a shredded green pack on Rawn and a blue pack on Lookout Island (Pickerel) once and that's in the middle of nowhere. I think they don't really care how they get where they think a meal might be waiting.

Now I remember, too much fun reminiscing... I've had three other instances on mainland where just letting 'em know I was there, got one out of camp as I returned and the other two just kept on moving. Neither came back to my knowledge.

As a human that applies human traits to all creatures, if I were a bear that took the trouble to swim out to an island, I'd be harder to shoo, considering I'd have to swim all that way again on an empty stomach with nothing to show for my effort.  

Mad_Mat wrote on Mar 23^rd, 2009 at 7:11pm:


All good thoughts, starting with the basics of a clean camp.
I worried about the "portage robbers" my first solo, double packing leaves the food pack vulnerable, and taking the time to hang it, didn't seem very feasible.
 Being a inventive type guy, I bought a personal safety (jogger) alarm and adapted it for a pack alarm. As IC will attest, its very loud and shrill. At the size and weight of a deck of cards, its worth it for a little extra piece of mind. Would be good for emergency signaling device, NOTHING in nature sounds like that, so should attract attention?
Attached to the food pack, I can't imagine ANY critter being able to tolerate its high decibel screech right in its ear
 IF it could, it must be old and deaf, and needs the food far worse than I do

He didn't mention bi-polar bears!  But he did ask the crowd, (standing room only) which is more dangerous:
1. a wild bear, never experienced with people
2. a hunted bear, one that has been shot at and knows that aspect of humans
3. a habituated bear, accustomed to people

almost everyone said # 3.  Jacobson said NO!  Jacobson said it's the wild bear...specifically, the YOUNG wild bear just kicked out by mama.  He equated this bear to a young teenager....their brains not quite fully formed. Very unpredictable.  No fear. 

How do you know what kind of bear you're looking at?  Circumstantial.  He said, if you see a bear in full daylight come into camp...be VERY wary...most habituated bears will sneak in at night.  The full daylight bear has no fear and you don't know what he/she will do.  Jacobson said in this case body language is very important.  Look big.  Put on your pack.  Look confident.  Get in a group if you have one.  Grab the little kids if they're around and put them on your shoulders.  Young bears like this are bullies, and if they think you're bigger, and not afraid, based on body language, they'll move off. 

I have a summary sheet...if I could figure out a way to put it in electronic form, I'd share it here. 

prouboy

How many instances of injury from Bears have been recorded-in the BW and the Crown Country? Curious also about the demographics-activities, was there a dog present, sex of the humans and bears, etc. Are there links and such......What about big cats?

Thanks-mad mat

I do what SnowDog does, regarding choosing camp carefully (page 2 of this thread).  I also gave up carrying bacon, too much fat weight compared to what food value is in it.

Sometimes we bring a bag or two of real bacon bits on our trips, just to add some extra taste to macaroni casserole, eggs, or chicken wraps.

Bear Attack, showing Easter Sunday night at 9pm on Discovery Channel.

BH,
 From everything I've read or seen in PBS specials, I would say you guy's were more than lucky than anything else
  I guess the idea of being in a large group with weapons makes some people feel "safe".
  I'm guessing the bears had a another kill or something that kept them occupied?
  I think I'd invest in a Bear Fence for camp, or at least the Sleeping tent area? A clean camp is more than a good idea too.
  IF a bear decided to come into camp at night, having 8 guys running around and possibly shooting would really be a bad scenario.
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pine_knot wrote on Apr 21^st, 2009 at 2:09pm:


Yes.

Losing your food would be bad.  Losing your tent and risking serious injury or death would be worse, IMHO.  Bears aren't real good with zippers.  Can you really find that air-horn that fast out of a dead sleep anyway, presuming that it even works as you intend?  You probably won't know about the bear until your tent's been ripped wide open and he's standing on top of you (quite possibly literally right on top of you  ).  I think that would be a poor way to test your system.

I do like the air-horn idea, though, as a scare tactic.  I just wouldn't want to put it to use in tight quarters.  No telling what sort of reaction it might provoke if you were within a bear's reach...and in a prone position to boot.

I carry both bear spray and a sound device, its a jogger alarm that I rig my food pack when portaging and its out of sight, and also is in my tent at night.
IF I was lucky enough to wake up to a bear NEAR my tent, I would probably pull the pin and set off the alarm (loud like a smoke detector).
IF I woke to the bear ripping into tent, I'd probably take a deep breath, close my eyes and hit him with the bear spray point blank in eyes/nostrils. Hopefully he/she would leave, and I could make it to a water source to flush my eyes
Having said this, I would still go tripping IF none of these modern devices existed.
 Being a solo paddler, my worries are probably a little different than a tandem/group traveler?
 IF the bear would kill me with a quick blow or bite to the neck, that's one thing, my fear would be that he/she would maul me so bad that I couldn't travel, or signal for help.  Laying wounded in the bush waiting to die or having the scavenger waiting in the wings isn't something I want too experience.
 There are different types of bears as most of us know. The camp bear who recognizes humans as a meal source, and the rare, but dangerous, rogue male (usually), who sees US as the meal.
 You can chase the camp bear off with rocks/sticks/noise, at least temporarily, but the rogue bear isn't going to be deterred by a puny human with a rock or stick.
 IF your unlucky enough to be attacked by a bear like that, you better be prepared for the fight of your life. Nothing beats a clean camp, food away from camp, and personal awareness, but for a little "insurance", I don't mind lugging a little extra firepower.
 I'm a BIG believer in expecting the best, planning for the WORST

Mister_Bubble wrote on Apr 21^st, 2009 at 5:58pm:

Maybe I was reflecting back on a test where I got a little "blow-back."  Yep!  I felt pretty upholstered! (I'll take tear gas any day!)

dd

There are a couple references in this thread to a rigged jogger alarm (i think IC and ST).
Do you still use/recommend them? How did you rig them?

The first few that i looked at didn't have a pull pin (or i didn't see it) but now its pretty obvious...
And i'd like it for the same reasons. if not a deterrent, then at least an alarm that something has moved the pack at the other end of the portage. 
:dankk2 !!!

We keep our dog's food right next to his bowl. He's not interested until he hears the bag and gets real excited when it's open and the cup makes that digging sound.

He's never touched or even shown any interest in the bag itself. The situation and timing matter more to him than hunger and smell from a not very well closed bag I guess. He could bump it and it would tip over spilling the contents but I'd bet he wouldn't eat his fill unless everyone was home and walked past it. They all know their place I guess.

There was an interesting little discussion about bears and gas at our Copia dinner. I have a bottle with bite marks in my office and it seems that's not as unusual as I thought. Still not going to bother hanging my fuel bottles since my toothpaste (that hangs in a mesh bag within easy reach of the fireplace at every campsite) has never been touched by any mammal besides humans.

I'll always hang my rum with the food though. 

db wrote on Mar 13^th, 2013 at 6:36am:


I think bears just learn to test things by biting into them and seeing what oozes out. Maybe, no???
I have a friend that has bite marks in a book he took camping.

Quote:


Pinesol contains between 8-12% pine oil depending on the scent formulation.
I suspect that along with the strong pine odor the other chemicals probably mask other odors and the pine scent is familiar to the bear and doesn't arouse his curiosity/food drive?

I've read that old time Pine Tar soap is a good choice for personal hygiene in Bear country for the same reason.

I feel the need to offer a lighter alternative to Pinesol.

The guy that lead my first trip handed out a gear list to everyone. One line near the end of the list was bear repellent. Next year at the orientation, someone asked what that was. As I recall he kinda dodged the question ... calling it a joke.

A few years later I was at his house drinking beer so I asked him outright. Turns out it was mothballs.

I only offer that alternative as Pinesol gives me an instant headache. A little sachet of mothballs would be lighter and you could take it with you from one campsite to the next ... and home with you.

jimmar wrote on Mar 15^th, 2013 at 6:39pm:

Took me a while.       Thanks for that.

db wrote on Mar 15^th, 2013 at 7:02pm:


Some twisted part of me hoped db's link built on jimmar's reply.

J

Eh, why not? It's silly season.

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