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Topic Summary - Displaying 6 post(s). Click here to show all
Posted by: Mad_Mat
Posted on: Jul 9th, 2004 at 12:07pm
While I do believe it can get relatively crowded at times, I do not think motorboats are allowed within the boundaries of the wilderness waterway.  If you want to have an outfitter fly you in, you have to land outside the boundary, and canoe in.  Float planes land on a pond or lake upstream of Alagash Lake, and you would then float the stream down to the lake, and continue down the waterway.   The waterway ends about 5 miles upstream from the town of Alagash, and motors are allowed only up to the boundary line, as far as I know. Things may have changed since 82, but I doubt that they have changed that much.  There are 2 or 3 rangers who live inside the waterway.  It may be that they do have motor boats? but my guess is that no one else is allowed to have a motor within the waterway.   

Here is a post someone made on paddling.net.  It was dated 7/4/04.  Though they didn't say when thier trip was, it seems to have been shortly before the 4th?

"Allagash River ME"
"In this day of reservations and quotas, this is one area that requires neither...moreover it seems each year its less used.
Used to be quite the populated canoe route 25 years ago..not any more...more moose than people for sure.
Perhaps its irrational but I know that the department that manages the area is running low on funds and I fear that the campsites on it will not be as pristine as they once were..and I wonder how long the ranger will be able to run a portage service.  However this 100 mile route will still be there!
We had a six day trip and saw seven other folks."


Posted by: azalea
Posted on: Jul 9th, 2004 at 4:25am
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I had planned on taking an Allagash this summer but  backed out when I got some bad reports.  I heard that during prime season
(july-aug) it is very crowded.  I heard outfitters will travel ahead of groups in motorboats to claim the good campsites, leaving slim pickings for those canoeing by themselves.

But these are just reports.  I have no first hand knowledge.
Posted by: louisa
Posted on: Jul 8th, 2004 at 3:45pm
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THANK YOU Mad Mat and Kim, this is extremely helpful!  Now the Alagash is definately on my list, though it won't happen this year.  I'm saving your postings and will get back in touch if I have other questions later.  We live in Maryland, so Maine is our "up north" from here and this sounds like a great trip.
Posted by: Kim Gass
Posted on: Jul 7th, 2004 at 8:54pm
Did the Allagash from Churchill Dam on down last week. It is a changed river since the 1980's when there was a good deal of logging going on due to the spruce budworm. Now there are few people working in the woods and some of the roads have all but disappeared.
I have several contacts with guides. I would suggest Sean Lizzotte of Allagash Guide Service in Allagash Village or Norm L'Italien of Pelletier's Campground in St. Francis to drive you and your gear in. Its about $200 per trip, so the more people you can bring the better the rate. You can drive your own vehicle in but it should be four wheel drive with a spare gas can and two spare tires and. Windshield damage is likely; you should have insurance for that. The outfitters will collect your car and have it waiting for you at Allagsh Village at the take out or come and retreive you and give you a ride to their compounds where you will find your car. The parking charge at the take out is $1 per stay.
Business is slowing down; seems families are not getting out. Many many campsites and usually there is no competition at all.
You can get a detailed map from North Maine Woods.
The portage around Churchill is vehicle assisted. Its $10 a  load. If you at least dont have the ranger take your gear, its foolhardy to risk losing it in the rapids and the ranger will have a heart to heart with  you. You can run Chase empty and pick up your gear five miles later at Bissonnette Bridge, where the ranger will have it waiting. Chase is Class 2, last week we had a minimal dam opening raising the water level only 250 cfs, so there was a fair amount of rockdodging. I have done it with kids; whether they will like it depends on how they and you feel toward the challenge. Its a rapid-pool-rapid-pool combination making getting swamped a less risky deal.
Round Pond Rips is a Class 2 also but shorter(no portage); the remainder is class 1 and 2.  All you need to do for safe passage is to be awake.At some water levels, you will have to stand in the boat to find the best channel. We did it at 1600 cfs, a very good level, moving most rocks buried and no dragging. Anything under 800 cfs is going to be dragging some and looking for the right channel.
Allagash Falls is a mandatory portage. Its 400 m all level or downhill with a very good pathway. Great swimming or lunch place with five campsites. Get out where the sign tells you to, dont press closer to the falls because there have been fatalities and injuries (its 40 feet tall).
You will most likely see a logging truck (they carry 230,000 lbs of wood, beware) at the Round Pond Bridge and Umsaskis Bridge(perhaps).
We did the trip Churchill Dam down in five very leisurely days. Last year my husband and I did the whole 98 miles in four days.
Its generally suggested for 7-10 days to do the whole waterway. The plus for the longer trip is seeing the locomotives and the entire railroad set up (boxcars, track etc) in the woods off Eagle Lake..the kids would love this.
Last year I saw four people; this year I saw(except for our group) five. Havent been to BWCAW in years due to overpopulation near the entry points so its hard to compare.
You will see moose(45 last year, 30 this year) and have very good prospects of seeing bear(they are shy; we saw two--the hind end mostly) and we saw lynx too plus a LOT of snowshoe hare(they hang out at the campsites). The campsites are for the most part grass covered and beautiful. There are rangers who take care of them; three along the river.They are also a neat source of information on the changes in the North Maine Woods.
I think that there is more of a wilderness feel here since its a long way south to population centers; even a town of any size (Millinocket ) is 150 miles south and you can go 150 miles west and still woods. Nearest town for services is Ft. Kent (pop 5000 about) its 30 miles from the end of the waterway and 130 from the start. There are no stores to buy canoe equipment like ELy ,beware. Rentals can be had from the outfitter.
Hope you come est!
Posted by: Mad_Mat
Posted on: Jul 7th, 2004 at 12:29pm
Did the Allagash in '82, so my comments may not reflect current conditions.  First of all, I did enjoy the trip and do recommend it, it is a beautiful area.  We did it as a two week trip, (early in June) so as to have plenty of time for fishing, and even went up the Allagash Stream to Allagash Lake and spent a couple days there as a side trip.  You could easily do the route (w/o the sidetrip) in a week, and probably could do it in 5 days, and possibly less.

Allagash Wilderness Waterway - Wilderness? not hardly.  Camping is similar to BWCA.  Camp only in designated campsites, which include a fire pit, outhouse, and even a picnic table, and a log frame to strech your tarp over the table.   The "wilderness" waterway is a narrow corridor (i think a mile on either side of the river?)  through the Maine North Woods, which is basically all timber company owned.  There are two or three roads that cross the route.   But, it is remote, and on the river part, we saw moose every day - probably saw 30 to 40 moose for the entire trip.  I do not recall it being crowded when we did it, though Alagash Lake (which has fly in access to a nearby pond) was busy.  We probably saw one or two other parties a day at most, and I think there were some days we did not see anyone.  I think we were able to get the campsites we wanted every night except one (or maybe two?) day on the river, where our first choice was taken

There are two parts to the trip, about 50/50 lake and river, depending on where you put in.   The lakes are mostly big water, and interconnected.  I can remember one portage between two of the lakes, maybe a 1/4 mile, and not a big deal.  The river section starts at a dam at the end of the lakes, and it is about 50 miles if I remember right.  There are several sections of rapids.  The Chase Rapids is nine miles long.  There is a ranger living near the dam.  Every morning, he opens the floodgates and raises the river level so you can run the chase rapids with high water.  For a modest fee, he will portage your gear to a point somewhere below the hardest
part of the rapids.  He will also portage you and your canoe if you want.  So you have 3 choices - avoid, run empty, or run full - we ran it empty.  You could even do it a couple of times if you shuttle twice.  I would say that Chase rapids are class II - its lots of rock garden, mosthly just dodging rocks.  I don't remember there being any drops, or big standing waves.  We did it in a 15' Grumman, and we did hang up on one rock - otherwise, I think we ran it clean.  It does take some white water skills, but it was not desperate.  The other rapids were no big deal, and I do not remember there being any portages around them.  They were also just rock gardens.   Alagash Falls is a mandatory portage, not too difficult and not too long (I think).  We camped there a couple of nights - had great fishing right below the falls for Kokanee Salmon.  Other fishing was pretty good also.  Caught a 20" heavy Brookie in Allagash Lake, another 20"er, and a 20" Lake Trout in some of the other lakes.  We camped near the dam one night, and spent the next day hiking and fishing the Chase Rapids (we waded), and caught bunches of 8 to 12 inch brookies.    The last day on the river, we had to get out and walk the canoe through lots of gravel bars - it gets wide and shallow on the lower section, and we did see several canoes with motors comeing upstream.  They weld a pitchfork on the motor to protect the prop, and drive right over the shallow gravel bars.  You will see more people there.  We pulled out on private property, and paid a fee, at the bridge in the town of Alalgash.  We hired an outfitter to drive our vehicle to the town, where we picked it up.  If you do the trip earlier in the spring, you can continue the Alagash to the St Johns River, and do another 50 or 100 miles on that.  

That is all off the top of my head, which is sometimes pointy, sometimes slanted, and sometimes even right.  If you'd like, I can look through my trip album and come up with actual details, campsites used, mileage, address to write to to get a map, etc.  It is black fly country, of course.

How "crowded" it is, I think just depends on when you do the trip.  I would recommend not starting on a Saturday, but try for Tues or Wed.  If you start at the same time as several other parties, I can see where you could all be traveling at the same pace, down the same route, and it could seem to be crowded, and you would have competition for campsites.  You do need to reserve an entry date permit, and pay a fee.  I would not want to do the river section in a straight tracking kevlar lake canoe, but you do not need a white water canoe either.

Louisa, you can probably find more current info on the Northeast Paddlers Message Board, or just do a web search for Allagash Wilderness Waterway.  I did that several months ago, and found several websites with info, outfitters, etc.

I would definitely do the Allagash again.
Posted by: louisa
Posted on: Jul 6th, 2004 at 5:01pm
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Have any of you paddled the Alagash?   I am reading Gil Gilpatrick's book and I wonder two things:  1. How does the "wilderness" feel compare to the Quetico or BWCA, i.e., are there a lot more people?  pressure for campsites, etc? and 2. can you count on portaging any rapids you decide you don't want to paddle?  I think the ones people generally run are described as Class 1 and easy Class 2, but that varies so much it is hard to get a sense of whether it is within my families capabilities or not.

Thanks.
 
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