We took a 20-something-mile day trip one day (i.e. lightly loaded), and on the return we headed into the teeth of the wind.

I'm about 205, my bow paddler was about 155. If we had had the Champlain and its high profile, we would have been blown backward, and my wrists would have eventually broken from all the "steering."

-- kypaddler

Thanks for the follow-up!  Sounds like the Champ is better suited for river trips.

Just got back, and for what it's worth, I want to trade in my Champlain for a MNII. Nice ride. To sum up: Just a lot less effort to go far, go fast, go straight.

-- kypaddler

thanks, all.

we leave tomorrow morning for the gazillion-mile drive to Ely, and then points north.

I'd like to order some mild weather now, plus some Northern Lights, moose, otter, eagles, hot fishing, soothing campfires, comfy sleeping, tremolos, fabulous remoteness et al.

but I'll take it as it comes.

-- kypaddler

db wrote on Sep 8^th, 2011 at 5:09pm:

Thus the axiom, Fat Man Bails.   

I'm usually the Fat Man and have often been inches deep while my bowman is high & dry.

kypaddler wrote on Sep 7^th, 2011 at 2:24pm:



I want to comment on this lots of initial stability vs rough water scenario.

After years of paddling a tandem Sawyer Cruiser solo, on my last a three trips, I've borrowed either a Prism or a Magic. All are very different boats in my mind.

The Prism has a flatter bottom (Tons of initial stability, to the point of being boring) and much prefers to go into or with the waves. The Magic absolutely loves to go parallel with waves. And can do it better because, how do I put this, the gunnels stay more level. In (what) 3 footers with bigger breaking swells, I wouldn't want to run parallel to them with the Prism. I don't think my hips have quite the flexibility required where as the Magic doesn't rock half as much from crest to trough and back up again and it seems to enjoy both. With either boat, you can pick your battles and allow them do what they do best but they are very different.

Canoes are tools. A lot of different tools can accomplish the same task of getting us from here to there in wind and waves. Highly refined tools like today's canoes are better at certain things so your path to get from point A to Point B in wind and fetch will very depending on the tool but they will all still get you there eventually. Unless YOU ask the tool to do what it can't.

I hope that makes sense and I REALLY hope a Magic has a rounder bottom than a Prism. I couldn't find cross sections to compare. That's just what they feel like to me. Both will ship a little water over the bow when you hit things wrong but they all bounce right back up.

If I were 240 and sitting in the bow as a wave washed over it, that would certainly put the fear of god into me knowing the stern paddler didn't see it and can't easily hear me attempt to relay that info. I've been piling all the weight I can into the stern more and more my last three trips. That worries me 'cause I can't see the stern paddling down wind in a gusty stiff breeze in any boat.

This Topic was moved here from General Boundary Waters / Quetico Discussion [move by] db.

like monjon said
I paddled many days in his bow at 240 lbs.  We saw lots of waves on N Bay and occasionaly shipped alittle water.  Boat is very stable, reasonably fast and straight tracking.

Yes Johnny, I'm a svelt 275 now...wonder if your MN II could handle that?  Bet it could!

If I was to buy another tandem today for BW/Q trekking...it'd still be a MN II.
Everybody bragsup the Souris river as well.

kypaddler wrote on Sep 7^th, 2011 at 2:24pm:

If secondary stability is sketchy I would agree.  Get broadsided, cross the initial stability threshold and dumperoo.
To compare, my 15' Wenonah Prospector has a flat-botttom high initial stability and I can heel it to the gunwale being 2" from the water without any worry as long as I keep my head between the gunwales.

The other point, about it skidding not turning sounds related to a light load.  Using different strokes incorporating the correction at the end of a power stroke might work better.  From the sounds of it there may have been more of a pry/draw than a J?  Big boats turn slow.

Reading the Wenonah comments on stability, I'm amused at their round bottom comment.  Yes it's for more advanced paddlers, I had an excellent experience in one.
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Jim J.,

Can you elaborate on this? Quote:


How/why a fault?

(I guess I know the theory, but I'm interested in others' specific thoughts and practical experiences.)

-- kypaddler