zski wrote on Mar 28^th, 2012 at 9:05pm:

I'm often amazed at how little information mfgs give about their boats.

Folks over at solotripping.com would be able to give you a lot of this missing info.  Some builders and hobbyists who love to geek-out on the subtle differences an inch can make.

It's difficult/impossible to compare specs from one mfgr to another. Even if there's no rocker, they should say rocker = 0, etc. Somewhere on some forum i read that Swift changed the winisk specs at one point. True or not i don't know. The scales are tipped to the freedom 17 right now. check back next week, it might change.

I noticed the discrepancy between the Green Valley plans and the Swift website as well - on several different models. Also in listing of loads they have changed, - for example the plans say the winisk designed load is 525, the Swift site lists 625. Swift used to have the same listing as on the Green Valley plans page but increased it sometime in the last few years by 100 pounds. The plans description page does say 525lbs with 9 inches of freeboard though, so maybe Swift is just trying to compete with canoe dealers that say things like 900lbs max load for a 16 foot canoe! On some 15' solo canoes I've seen specs listing weight to immerse as 105lbs per inch, so the Winisk would probably have 8.5" freeboard at 625lbs - that's tons. I do know that I have on occasion had much more than that in mine...

Moonman

Moonman.

Moonman: For a trip, 525# would be about it.
I still love the cruiser but with a load there just isn't enough freeboard for my comfort. That's probably partly why i like the way it paddles, the low profile, less susceptible to wind and i think it's fast. I don't have experience actually paddling a lot of dift boats. Maneuverability in waves is a good consideration. It looks like the freedom 17 also has a fair amount of rocker.
interesting that winisk description doesn't just give overall rocker value but differentiates bow rocker and stern rocker Bow Rocker 3-1/4" & Stern Rocker 1". this might explain why the bow is less 'sticky'.  (also noticed that bow rocker on the swift product website is 2.5". That's quite a difference from the plans)

Zski - what weight load do you expect to have in the boat? I hear the Freedom 17' 9" is a bit slower than the 17. By the way, from a previous post of your, the Winisk in my opinion has no tracking problems unloaded. I paddle it solo all the time. It is a big boat though so can be blown around in wind when empty. It also has more rocker than a lot of boat that size so the bow is not as sticky as some, but I think that is a big plus. Way more sea worthy and maneuverable in waves. Now the Freedom 17 is a pretty darn good boat as well and lots of guys use it for tripping. So if you haven't picked one yet, depending on your load, I would look at both those hulls, maybe also the Kipawa.

Moonman.

Thanks JS. I got some good info from jimmar & Moonman (they've built some really nice boats too) and db also helped with cruiser question. I've spent time at the bear mtn site but you're right to point in that direction, i should ask those guys specifics about the freedom and freedom 17 9. After all, they're the ones selling selling the plans...

I don't know those four well enough to comment, but if you go to the Bear Mtn boards and do a search, you will find a lot that isn't in the book. Good luck!

That. Is a pretty picture.
Just last week, I purchased ted moores book, canoecraft  in which the redbird is the featured boat.
For me it's narrowed down to 4. winisk, freedom 17. freedom 17-9, or replicate sawyer cruiser and add a bit of sideboard. leaning toward replicating the cruiser because i know it. any preference?

My stripper is also a Bear Mountain design (17'6" "Redbird"), from the book Canoecraft. Here's a POD of it from last summer:
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It is very fast, and extremely stable in rough water. I too love the stiffness of a stripper compared to the Kevlar rentals I've tried, and at close to 70 lb. the Redbird has the added bonus of giving you a better workout on the portages! (You could cut the weight some if you were careful)

Bear Mountain has a great website and set of message boards. If you're looking at building a stripper, I'm sure that if you ask, the regs there will give you lots of great advice on the pros and cons of each of the BM designs as well as on any construction details where you might have questions.

I have never considered graphite paint on the hull, even though I've been aware of its existence since I built the boat. Cover up all that beautiful cedar? No way! A light sanding and a coat of varnish at the end of the year and the boat looks as good as new.

db- The 222 does not behave anything like Wenonah's Sundowner.

Yeah, the 222 seems huge, but at the waterline she has the dimensions of a  fast cruiser (18.5' X 34") but with wave-canceling curves rather than straighter lines of my MNII (which the 222 will keep pace with).

Whenever I've taken the 222 on trips with multiple boats there is a common theme- everyone wants to paddle the 222, no one wants to carry it.