Recently someone added what follows to   (You need to Login or Register. I appreciate that, I really do.

Our location: Entry point Sawbill lake. Starting with the portage from Alton to Kelso Lake, we stayed at the 2nd campsite to the south of the portage on the west side of Alton Lake. This bear immediately left our campsite and passed by the next campsite to the south of us (empty) and stopped at the next campsite to the south (not empty).

At our campsite, we had our food pack hung between 2 trees. The ropes were 15 feet off of the ground, in between the trees we tied a pulley into the rope. So the bottom of our Duluth pack was over 12 feet off of the ground. The bear could not reach the pack. However, this bear seemed to know that a pack hung in a tree means food, and the bear climbed 15 feet up one of the trees to where my rope was on a branch and pulled on the rope and branch until the branch broke. This lowered my pack to 6 feet off of the ground because the rope was still intact. The bear, who could reach 6 feet high, then proceded to pull our plastic Duluth pack liner out and ate 5 days worth (all) of the food.

After leaving our campsite, the bear directly walked 2 campsites down and did the same technique of climbing the tree and pulling on the branch or rope. The camper at that sight tried to scare the bear away, but the bear was not scared and continued to try to get into their food pack. After 5-10 minutes of yelling and pot banging, the bear then started to leave but then turned and "bluff charged" the camper. The bear stopped at the pack--which the bear took into the woods and ate most of their food.

Advice: Check with the forest ranger before your trip--we reported this bear and found out that this bear had visited campsites several times the week before we arrived on Alton Lake. Also do not assume that a pack that is properly hung in a tree is enough, make sure you hang the pack in a location far from where a bear like this would look. This bear knew how to take a pack down and knew where the campsites were.

Guess what, look out, I'm going off on yet another rant about   (You need to Login or Register. ;)

Now, if the visual I get when I read this is correct, it sounds like the second picture on this page:
  (You need to Login or Register

I've seen pictures like this all over and it's JUST PLAIN WRONG! The tree on the left is passable depending on the orientation of the branches. The one on the right is what it sounds like these campers did. It's obviously wrong. Those ropes need to be wrapped AROUND the tree 15 feet high. You only need a tiny nub of a branch and it's best when it's pointing away from the pack and you wrap in the opposite direction. It's friction that supports it, not a branch. The branch is only used to keep the ropes up until you tie off the second one.

The second thing that sounds wrong to me was it doesn't sound like they ever tried to scare the bear off. The second group at least made some noise. Rocks to the face have worked for me in the past. Their fur is so thick hitting the body doesn't matter. One rock to the face worked for me on a solo once. He kept coming back into the campsite with every load I took to the canoe but would retreat when I returned for more stuff, rocks in hand. He once ran off with my spare paddle with me chasing him. (I was laughing as I ran after him.) Another time he ran off with my gas can - pfffft - audible displeasure with the taste... Another memorable moment for both of us I'd guess.

My bear was so persistent he swam to the mainland where I went to repack. It took him 5-10 minutes to swim there. I got him with one last rock about 10 feet from shore. He got out of the water, shook himself off, looked back at me and kind-of groaned before walking into the forest.

Anyway, that's how I dealt with the only persistent one I ever met. I'd do the same thing again and btw - he never even noticed my food pack hanging there. I even chased him a little further away than usual before I took it down. Your mileage may vary...

This has always been a pet peeve of mine because people don't realize they are hanging the food pack wrong.

I asked my brother in Ely, a "lifer" in the USFS, why people should use the latrines in the BW while the bears don't have to.  His answer; Because bears don't eat "people food".   ;D  ;D

Hopefully this bear also grabbed some TP and a shovel and headed up the hill.

My solution - if bears are apparently now relying on the sight of a hanging pack between trees, and have evolved to enough to complete mathematical formulas (people + shore = lunch) start hanging a pack of rocks and put your food in the tent.   Hang the pack low enough for the bear to get it and when the bear is under the pack, cut the rope and the pack of rocks falls on him and crushes him - now who's got the food! ;D

Sorry, I just had to make light of this.  I haven't hung or hid a food pack since 1992.  I have had bears in the campsite before but between my canoe paddle and some rocks, they never hung around for long.

However, db, if I was ambitious (and less cynical), I would implement your system.  Seriously.

Seems to me I read recently on one of the posts that one of our members has a way of rigging his food pack rope to alert him if a bear is after his pack.  Can't remember who it was but would be interested in his/her technique.

We hang 'em high.  If a bear is going to get our food, at least he's going to have to work for it!

dlk

PJane, you ignorant Girly-man... :D

I'm obviously cynical but if you say you're man enough to beat 'em off your pack with a paddle while wearing a skirt, whatever system works for you, works for me. (unless your tent is yellow maybe...)

I seriously have a problem with people who can't apply common sense to directions and would sit by and watch as a bear ate ALL their food - w/o at the very least, making the effort to make it a painful victory for the bear.

In defense of the guy who posted what I quoted, he did get half a clue after the fact.

I'll also admit that I don't hang at every campsite. I normally seek out the lessor known/used ones and only hang if I'm really tired or in well traveled areas. I'll always hang at popular ones or if anything smells funky to me. I hung my packs at this particular site, even though I didn't understand the signs at the time I knew something was wrong. I'm glad I did. That was a little bear in comparison, still, he was twice my size, very persistent and I'm here to say he got nothing but pain.

5 minutes before we met, he met mamma moose so he had ben beaten down at least once before. I was MUCH more afraid of her as she ambled by with calf in tow. She had a really wild, scary look in her eye and was a lot taller than me.

wrote on Aug 3^rd, 2006 at 9:52pm:

Seems to me I read recently on one of the posts that one of our members has a way of rigging his food pack rope to alert him if a bear is after his pack.  Can't remember who it was but would be interested in his/her technique. dlk

I'm not sure if I'M the member your talking about, but i DO have a method and while it hasn't actually been tested in the field, i have NO doubt that it would work
i came up with this because as a solo tripper, i don't have then option of having the food pack in sight at all times!
i double portage and anyway you work it, the food pack is going to be out of sight!
in the past i would hang food pack between trips but that's a pain and sometimes there isn't a suitable hanging tree convenient for use.
a couple of years back i came up with this.
i get a lot of "gear" magazines and while looking thru one that sold home security items and personal security items, i found what i think is the answer??
it's a personal security alarm , about the size of deck of playing cards.
it's powered by 9 volt battery and has a short lanyard attached to small pin.
it has a belt clip for attaching to belt or pack strap.
when pin is pulled, a high decibel alarm is activated.
it's easily as loud as a smoke detector and IMO much shriller??
Of course i had to test it so i put it up close to head(like bears head would be) and pulled the pin!!!
i'm not sure how acute a bears hearing is or it's hearing range but if it's anywhere close to a humans, then there is NO way a bear is going to hang on to the pack with this alarm clipped to it!!
that's what i do. i clip alarm to d-ring on shoulder straps and secure lanyard around small tree or whatever is handy??
the idea is for the alarm to STAY with food pack not get pulled free.
i figure even if i get a old DEAF bear, if nothing else i won't have any trouble chasing after my pack with bear spray in hand >:( >:(.
you could easily rig it to a hanging pack if you had bear in area and for whatever reason it wasn't feasible to move your camp??
the alarm was under $20. and to me provides a cheap, simple method of possible deterent or at least a early warning system.
this is all a mute point to the "hiders" and the bear spray is the same way to the "naysayers" :-? :-?.
you can find these alarms on internet under personal security alarms.
I'm with you db, i think it was "how" and possible where he hung pack that was the problem??
i'm wondering if pack wasn't hung in most convenient spot, right in camp, rather than back in woods or down shoreline from camp??
anyway, that's my system, not for everyone i know, but works for me ;) ;)

db wrote on Aug 3^rd, 2006 at 10:36pm:

PJane, you ignorant Girly-man... :D

I know, I know.  I have probably been dodging bullets for the past few yeas but then again, I try to vacation where the bears aren't - for us, this is step one in bear prevention.  Increased bear activity doesn't surprise me in drought years though.  I went blueberry picking the other day north of here and finding ones big enough to keep was tough going.  If I was a bear, I'd be in the camground parking lots these days.

P.s.  Bears tremble at the sight of a man in a skirt.

;)Sounds like a good idea, Solotripper.  I think we may all have to get a little innovative if the bears continue to figure out our tricks.  A trip to the Q is too special and they're too far apart to have them ruined by a cantankerous old bear out to steal my grub! >:(

dlk

I agree it's a very interesting idea. For portages because it takes me three trips but especially for day trips. I'll usually stash my day food pack a short distance from the canoe and it may sit there unattended for hours. I wouldn't mind so much if it got taken but that would make it much easier to find if it did.

i figure for the few bucks it cost and light weight it was worth adding to gear??
i did mention in previous  post, but you could take it in tent at night if you wanted to and use for "personal" alarm in event of unwanted nighttime visitor??
it's much louder than you could yell and the noise is something the "visitor" would have no knowledge of, so to me it would seem to be that much more effective??
i also can see it as a "signaling" device in event of emergency??
i carry a Fox 40 rescue whistle which is quiet loud, but i think this alarm tops that!!
other than being attacked personally, losing your food especially at start of trip would be a terrible loss of scarce and valuable tripping time!!!

My father-in-law my wife and her sisters one of those "screamers" a couple of years back, wow was it loud. great idea ST I will have to find it and try it out. It sounds like you might be on to something.

cedarboy

Solotripper,

I take it you haven't had any problems with smaller animals, say squirrels, setting off the alarm?  :-/

dlk

Wow thanks for this thread!  I didn't know there was so many different ways to hang a pack.  Now we have a much easier way thanks to your links  [smiley=dankk2.gif]

wrote on Aug 6^th, 2006 at 4:04am:

Solotripper, I take it you haven't had any problems with smaller animals, say squirrels, setting off the alarm?  :-/ dlk

NO, so far i haven't had a problem but i guess it's alway's a possibility??
I lay food pack flat on it's back and attach alarm to d-ring on pack straps.
you need to make sure pack can't tip over and also that there is slack in the lanyard end.
It takes a little effort to pull pin, i don't know a squirrel could do it but something smaller than bear probbaly could??
i figure if it's big enough to move pack, triggering the alarm, then it's probably capable of getting to your food or tearing pack up??
I put the food pack way off to side of portage so if another party comes in they won't disturb it?
I have this "twisted" vision of some "well meaning" fellow paddler grabbing my pack to "help" rather than go across portage empty handed??
I would be embarrased if he ended up "soiling" him/herself when he set off the alarm :-[ :-[!!
It would be one of those should i laugh or cry moments ;) ;).

As far as early warning systems go, the first bear I ever had in camp struck the guys on a nearby island a few hours later. Turned out I was their early warning system although I felt mighty stupid at the time. It was the first time in days I said a word, much less at that volume. I remember waking up that night hearing a distant commotion. I probably shouldn't say this but when I realized the cause, I just chuckled and went back to sleep. When the food pack is hanging I simply never worry about it.

I'd love to see this bear,   (You need to Login or Register take a crack at it. While I'd be tempted to document the effort, I wouldn't get out my camera until I was out of rocks.

Sounds like I just hate bears eh? Our first encounter after many trips was at French. A sow and two cubs. We were all happy to see them and watched 'em as we traded street clothes for paddling clothes ready to jump in our cars if it became necessary. After our trip we mentioned (as a highlight) seeing them to our outfitter. He became noticeably sad (and actually rather angry) and after a few questions cited budget constraints and the unfortunate failure of relocating mom once before as the official justification for the "destruction" of all three. Roger (May he rest in peace. 1909 - 1999, gold prospector > corporate guide >  outfitter, painter...) earned that 'wild' look in his eyes and I'll never forget how they looked on that particular day.

Has anyone ever had a problem with a bear when camping with dog/dogs? I find a barking dog goes along way in discouraging a bear.

i ALSO find that a barking dog goes along way in pissing off other campers in the area.  Jan

I am interested in using a pulley for my foodrope but have been unable to find a suitable pulley.  I checked REI, they didn't know what I was talking about; Home Depot had one really heavy duty pulley.  Piragis sells a pulley system for hoisting and storing your boat.

I need one lightweight pulley, rated for 50 pounds or less.


Thanks,
Greg

greg wrote on Aug 8^th, 2006 at 11:57am:

[snip] I need one lightweight pulley, rated for 50 pounds or less. Thanks, Greg

Try   (You need to Login or Register they are small, light and strong, they are offered in different sizes make sure you get the correct size for the dia. of rope you are using. You might  look into purchasing polyester rope it will not stretch as much as nylon rope does.

flp

We've had our pulley system for a while but I think it came from an arborist catalog.  You might check out   (You need to Login or Register.  Just click on the arborist supplies.

dlk

wrote on Aug 8^th, 2006 at 10:14am:

i ALSO find that a barking dog goes along way in pissing off other campers in the area.  Jan

.

Thanks for not answering my questions and turning my concerns into a complaint.

I am sure a renigade bear will also piss off other campers

I am sure that the personal alarm you are ALL TALKING ABOUT WILL NOT DISTURB ANY CAMPERS!

If your dogs only bark when there is a problem it should not be a problem for others. I am sure banging pots together to scare a bear would be a little lound in the wilderness and also disturb others.

I am sure people would not complain after understaning the reason for the barking. Because If I had a problem with a bear I would be considerate enouph to let other campers in the area know what was going on.


Thanks

Quote:

I am interested in using a pulley for my foodrope

May a suggest you get two pulleys, and that the two pulleys have multiple wheels. A single pulley will privde you with no mechanical advatage (it just changes the direction of the force being applied).  You need multiple pulleys to obtain a mechanical advantage.

The system for creating your ropes   (You need to Login or Register allows you to configure your ropes in a manner similar to how DB does it, but also gives you the option of using an alternate method that I find makes it easier to raise the pack and allows the food pack to be a few feet higher off the ground, given the same sized trees (sometimes important where the hanging options are limited). The two double pulleys provide a 3-1 mechanical advantage.

i agree with the multiple pulley system over a single.
last year was the first time i went to a multiple system and after seeing DBs excellent presentation, i decided to give it a try.
i knew about the advantages from my construction days but had always been content to just "muscle" the pack up.
while i'm still able to do that, after seeing the ease with which you can lift a heavy pack, it's really a no brainer to go to this system IMO.
Single pulley or multiple your still looking for suitable trees and putting up at least 2 ropes, so it's no more work but it's certainly LESS work especially if not everyone in your (group?) isn't up to the task?
The modified pulley azalea posted is  interesting variation of the one here on QJ.
i notice it's on a external frame pack, so some modification might be needed to hang a Duluth style pack but that's a minor thing?
i'll have to give it a try next trip and see how it works for me??

 FWIW- saltski, i think your taking the comments much to seriously??
more likely than not, it's just a little BARBED humor, nothing to get upset about??
Of course, ANY noise in the wilderness that isn't part of the landscape is disturbing to other's!!
Whether it's my alarm,yelling and banging pots or anything else including barking dogs!
i don't think anyone begrudges a fellow paddler doing what they need to do to thwart a marauding bear??
i think the comment was just a little attempt at humor in regard to people who let there dogs bark INCESSANTLY just because there outdoors??
WE all can be smarta**'s on this site, don't take it personal, in most case's it's just that sometimes it's much funnier in your head than when you type it out and post it :-[ :-[.

In the past I carried a block and tackle on some trips for hoisting food (or game) into the air. There are a bunch of places where you can get cheap (but good enough) block and tackles with steel end plates and nylon sheaves and nylon rope for less that $20. The one I have was rated for two tons - a bit more than I needed - so I modified it by removing two of the four sheaves from each block. This slightly reduced the size and weight, gave me a lot more pulling range for the same length of rope, and still provides plenty of advantage to easily lift the 200-250 pounds I needed.

HINT: Remember that the length of rope you need to get a certain lift will also be multiplied by the mechanical advantage - if you have a 4 line block and tackle and you want to lift 10 feet, you are going to need at least 40 feet of rope (more likely more than 50 feet, all things considered). Guess how I know this  :-[.

For blocks and sheaves and other mechanical stuff I find   (You need to Login or Register online supplier to be very useful. I have found much of their more common stock to also be available locally at the hardware store.

-aj

Quote:

i notice it's on a external frame pack, so some modification might be needed to hang a Duluth style pack but that's a minor thing?

Yes it is a minor thing.  The two ropes could be attached to each other with the food container also attched at that point as you do now, hanging below those ropes. The big difference is the container is raised by taking the slack out of the "horizontal" ropes, not by pulling down on a rope attached to the middle of the horizontal rope. Try it and see how much better it works.

i went back and studied the set-up further and understand the "minor modification" your refering to.
i also noticed something else that i will have to adapt/purchase??
i didn't have the link sized right on PC screen and now i realize that your using two MULTIPLE wheeled pulleys!
the set-up i copied from QJ has as you know 3 SINGLE wheel pulleys.
your getting a 3-1 (?), mechanical advantage but i understand that your working against the weight of pack "sagging" top rope.
i'll PLAY with my 3 pulley set-up this winter and see if i can't adapt it as the link described?
if not, it's no big thing to get 2 multiple wheel pulleys.
this post has proven once again that there is alway's room to improve a good thing ;) ;).

I use a similar system to the one db posted, but with a few changes.  First, I abandoned the pulleys on the top rope.  I use heavy duty carabiners.  I know there is way more friction this way, but I got tired of stringing everything through the pulleys.  With the biners, I just snap the line through and go.  I still use a pulley at the pack, though.  For the "lifting" rope, I just use some braided nylon cord.

-pm

I don't string rope thru pulleys, just leave haul rope and pulleys as one unit.
after i lower pack, i pull up haul rope to "top" rope and then lower "top" rope and unclip the caribiners. what i end up with is all 3 pulleys close together and i wrap haul rope around like you would a outdoor extension cord? i do reverse when i'm hanging pack, tie off one side of top rope and make two loops and clip caribiners on and attach pack pulley. Then i toss remaing top rope end up and over and pull up. the weight of pack pulls out haul rope and i'm ready to hang. I'll do the same with Azlea's version except the 2 pulleys will be on same side closer to tree. i think taking out rope "sag" and putting tension closer to tree trunk will make lifting even smoother??
i have two climbing carabiners attached to two top pulleys and just make loop in top rope like you would if tying a "truckers hitch".
i really like the version Azlea put in his post and will try next spring and post pics if it works as good as it looks??

wrote on Aug 8^th, 2006 at 10:14am:

i ALSO find that a barking dog goes along way in pissing off other campers in the area.  Jan

I'm not so sure about dogs and bears.  About a week ago I met a guy paddling down McEwen creek that had just recently paddled up to a large bear he saw on the shore.  He had a medium sized dog who was yipping at it and  he told me the bear jumped into the water and started swimming toward him.  As in the bear wanted to eat the dog.

I have a good friend I hunt with in The Pas, MB who camps in the bush with his hunting dog (labrador).  On two separate nights the bear jumped on his camper and tried to get in although the dog was barking and growing.  Then the bear tried to ambush the dog in the early morning and nearly caught it.  It was a black bear, just like the kind we have down here.

This tells me that a hungry bear will want to eat a dog.  Maybe the BW/Q bears are docile and not terribly dog-hungry.  But if it was me I wouldn't assume that a dog would scare away a bear, but rather be an enticement to it.

your points are well taken and i've read articles talking about people letting dogs"chase" after black bears only to have dog come back into camp with bear in hot pursuit??
i don't know if i would NOT bring a dog, but i wouldn't let it roam free or "set" it at bear to close to camp??
it's hard to imagine that in Q/BW, or the bush that a healthy bear would be driven to go after a full size barking dog??
i guess only bear knows for sure but i'm wondering if there is perhaps another explanation??
could it be that the bears are young male's and the see the dogs barking as a challenge to there territory??
those are the kinds of bears i carry my bear spray for, there not looking for a scavenged meal, there looking for fresh meat, as in YOU!!
while they may be few and far between, that's not much comfort if your the unlucky soul that encounters one :'( :'(.
THERE not going to be deterred by throwing rocks or paddle upside there head IMO!
Like the discussion of hanging or hiding, there are a multiple of opinions on this subject!!
I wonder what the guy in canoe with dog would say now that his "deterent" turned out to be a "ATTRACTION" :( :(??

solotripper wrote on Aug 11^th, 2006 at 6:58pm:

I wonder what the guy in canoe with dog would say now that his "deterent" turned out to be a "ATTRACTION" :( :(??

He said he was pretty darn scared, and that he would never do that again.  BTW, he said he saw the Bear on Kawnipi and that he thought it was over 400 pounds.

read account of paddler w/dog and stalking bear on myccr last month. sounded like the bear was after the dog but who knows for sure.

I did a bit of googling to see what the various state, provincial, and federal agencies had to say about bear and dog encounters.

Manitoba says this:  "Dogs can serve as an early-warning system for the presence of bears but should be kept on a leash at all times. If an unrestrained dog confronts a bear, the bear may follow the dog back to its owner."

Ontario this:  "It is important to keep dogs away from a bear. While a well-trained dog may deter a bear, a poorly trained one may only excite it resulting in the bear following the dog back to its owner."

  (You need to Login or Register is fairly interesting.  Don't bother if you're on dial-up, however.  It doesn't say anything about what to do with your dog, but I think they cover that elsewhere.

Thanks, there were other intersting things there too.   (You need to Login or Register.

lotalota -  what do you think about your DVD idea being web accessible as well? Perhaps they could cover a number of topics individually to reduce download times? I just feel that right before beginning a trip is the absolute worst time to attempt to educate. During the planning stages would be much better IMHO. If all your food is in a garbage bag inside a Duluth... - new thought - maybe the Friends should sell bear proof barrels and trowels. The park already gives out HUGE bright yellow garbage bags and has for years.

PM - I never have taken apart my hanging rope configuration. (+ST) I start wrapping it up in the pack down position just 'cause it's faster to   (You need to Login or Register.

db wrote on Aug 12^th, 2006 at 8:35am:

Thanks, there were other intersting things there too.   (You need to Login or Register. lotalota -  what do you think about your DVD idea being web accessible as well? Perhaps they could cover a number of topics individually to reduce download times? I just feel that right before beginning a trip is the absolute worst time to attempt to educate. During the planning stages would be much better IMHO.

I agree that an educational DVD should also be offered on the web, but I do have some reservations about how effective that would truly be.  If it was on a site like this, then I would assume it would mostly be preaching to the choir.  But if it was on the OntarioParks site, and a required watch before you got your reservation permit, then that would be a step or two better.  Of course, OntarioParks doesn't yet offer QP backcountry permits online so this wouldn't work now.

In a perfect world I would see a process where backcountry QP permits are purchased online.  But prior to getting your permit number and printable confirmation you must go through an online educational sequence (video, slideshow, etc.) followed by a quiz.  A similar process would occur for those users who use guides, outfitters, or camps.  The mailing brochure would be simplified and made more attractive so children and others are tempted to read it.  And the kiosk system at the entry points would be improved upon in the same way in order to drive use.  Furthermore, outreach should be done with large user groups (scouts, other camps) and some sort of a "certification" program (with benefits, that can be revoked) for those bigger organizations should be instituted.  I'm coming around to thinking that a video is just one prong in a multi-toothed attack.

I've had very little success in hanging my packs.  I never seem to get the right combination of trees to make it work.  Alas . . .  :-/  I have usually taken my food pack and put it under my canoe, placing the cleaned cookpots and dishes on the bottom of the canoe to "dry" overnight.  Had the canoe tipped once and the racket of the clanging dishes spooked Mr. Bruin and woke me up, enough to make enough noise to shoo him off.  But a persnickety or tenacious bear would probably get my food anyway, under a canoe or in a tree.  I'm intrigued by the personal alarm method and might consider adding that to the "canoe method" arsenal.

As for the pleasantness of bears north or south, I live my not BW/Q life in Pennsylvania where bears are close to outnumbering humans these days.  A black bear in the 600-900 pound range is not unheard of.  In fact, I have seen multiple 600+ bears in the last few weeks on the mosey for fattening.  Those were sows.  I saw an 800+ garbage bear last Saturday.  Lying on his side and scratching on a tree next to a busy highway, he was at least 6 1/2 feet tall.  Lots of Jersey and NYC lookey-loos had gotten out of their cars for a gander.  Not smart with a garbage-fed, grizzly-sized black bear who doesn't give a rip about humans or their cars.

Anwyay, as for dogs and bears.  My experience has been:  keep your dog and bears far apart.  If my dog is barking and outside at night around here, the dog comes in and gets the muzzle.  I know of more than one person who's dog's barking has pissed the bear off and they wound up with a dead or severly-wounded pup.  If your dog's not leashed, they often will get bold (read: Stupid Dog Syndrome) and chase them only to wind up as I mentioned before.

Dogs might be a good alarm in the BW/Q or north, but they are more of a hazard than a help IMO; even though I love to have them with me, I choose a kennel or friend to pet them while I'm away.

those are some mighty big black bears your describing :-? :-?!!
i'm sure less and less hunters apply for bear permits just  as in my state MI every generation is losing more and more hunters and fishermen??
i can relate to not finding the right combo of tree's but i wouldn't recomend hiding your food pack under a canoe :-/ :-/??
IF, you can't hang i would do what the "hiders" do, take pack away from camp and stash in woods. you could still do the pot and pan alarm thing or go to my "personal alarm" but i think you would be much better served keeping the canoe out of harm's way ;) ;)
it's BAD enough if a bear get's your food, but if he rips into your canoe to do it, well then your really screwed ;) ;)!!
if you go to link Azlea posted and study it out, you'll see that with using 2 top ropes, coming from opposite directions and using the pulley system closer to one tree or the  other, you SHOULD have better luck finding suitable tree's??
i bet when the word get's out about those big blacks bears, Pennsylvania will be a prime spot for the black bear hunter's??
from what i've read, you need to go to BC or some place farther north to get into bears that size??

Wow, nunbet10 get a license, those big bears you talk about  outweight the Penn State record by at least 67lbs( State record is 733). Must be something in the water out there.

cedarboy