All -

I am seeking a source for Woodland Caribou Provincial Park maps to navigate by.  I already possess the overall park map, purchased from the Park Supintendent at 'Copia a couple years back.  While better than nothing, the scale of this map would make it less than satisfactory for navigation purposes in WCPP (ie. about like using an entire Quetico Park map to navigate with through the Q).

db has been very helpful to me in suggesting numerous possible sources for the sort of maps I seek.  However, to date, I have come up with exactly NOTHING.  Yes, I know that, sooner or later, I will probably contact the likes of an outfitter such as Goldseekers to arrange this (or that) service (shuttle, etc.).  THOSE guys HAVE the maps I seek, I'm sure.  However, THEY must have a source!

Ah, you say, "Jimbo, you dum-dum, why not simply call them & buy what you need?"

I say, "That would be too easy!"  Besides, I'm not quite ready, yet, to be discussing my needs with any outfitter.  

Rather, I'm thinking SOMEBODY out there in QJ world has BEEN to WCPP and used such maps.  Maybe they can tell me the name of the map publisher OR a retail source that carries them???  Anyway, I figure it's worth a shot.  Otherwise, I'll be calling Goldseekers in a couple weeks.

I got me a bad case of "planning fever" going already!

Thanks for any help you might be able to provide!

Jimbo   8-)


P.S. Anticipating the question... my motive for checking out WCPP (probably) has little to do with the '08 park fishing regs in the Q.  

Jimbo, I'll take a shot at this. Back in '99 (the year of the BWCA blowdown) we went up to WCPP. Did a fly-in, paddle out trip. We got 2 maps (besides the big park map) produced by the Canuck Gov't. They are paper, but we waterproofed them, at a scale of 1:50,000. While not as nice as what we are used to with Fisher/McKenzie, they are good enough that we were able to navigate around. They also show possible shortcuts that you may want to explore. Our outfitter identified campsites and which lakes held which species of fish. Lakes tend to be trout lakes or waldo lakes, not many have both. Perhaps if you search the web for the Canucks website, you'll find what you are looking for. PM me for more info.

OS

call bill ostrum-people say his store has maps for anywhere you might want to go.

sorry, that's ostrom, with an "o".

bill@ostrompacks.com

Jimbo,
2 or 3 thoughts
this might work:
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When Azalea got the good topos for the PCD, he downloaded free govt topos for the Q area, but indicated that they're available for all of Canada from the same site.  I haven't tracked that down, but it might be worth something.

One of the outfitters probably has a good source & may even make up their own with added info (portages) like CCO does for the Q.

-Tom

maybe like this one

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OK, the one Azalea got the real govt topos from is this:
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I don't understand what he did or how he did it, but it's discussed here
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for anyone who's interested.
-Tom

jdrocks & Tom,

I started to thank you guys for your ideas yesterday, then got sidetracked.  Now I'm glad I waited!  These last few sources you mention seem  to offer real potential.

jd, I've bought a fair amount of stuff directly from Bill Ostrum, including his super-deluxe Blue Barrel harness.  When I go to his website, however, I find no reference for maps.  I haven't tried e-mailing him yet.  The other sources you go on to reference, however, seem to get me closer to what I'm after.

Tom, I think those 1:50,000 canoe route maps are exactly what I'm looking for.  I should be able to use my very good overall park map to help me identify the specific maps I'll need to cross the park.  

I picked up everything the WCPP Superintendent had to offer about his park a couple years ago at 'Copia.  From that stuff I've done a fair amount of research already re: terrain, flora & fauna, lakes by fishing type, pictos, campsites, traditional canoe routes, areas where motorized craft are likely to be seen... stuff like that.  For instance, I know that while the chances of my spotting a caribou or a wolverine ain't good, there are certain areas of the park where they are better than average (not that I REALLY wish to encounter a wolverine; did you know that WCPP is like the world's hot spot for them?).  I overlay those desired attributes with the type fishing & paddling I am looking for, superimpose what campsite info I have gleaned, add in Old Salt's notes and - voila! - I have sort of plotted a general path across the entire park.

I am considering having an outfitter dump me at my choice EP on the east side, then shuttle my vehicle for me around to the Manitoba side take-out.  That's my current line of thinking, anyway.

You guys know how it is when you get "the fever"... you just gotta have those maps!

I appreciate your helping me move forward!

Jimbo   8-)

spoke with bill back in august, but i forgot to ask him about maps myself. i'm pretty sure i've seen ostrom as a resource for maps at their store at least, or a tie in with another vendor. if it's available, bill can probably get it.

Jimbo
Don’t rule out having some one go in through the west side and come out the east side.  They get in your car and you in theirs and meet at the border. Mabe even meet in the middle.
MagicPaddler

Magic,

Which side do you want, west or east??

Jimbo   8-)

The flow is generally east to west. The wind generally blows west to east.

It does sound intriguing. Have the wind at your back or go with the flow. I could do either.  I have been looking at my work schedule for next year and it is not the best.  
The times when I could take a week + of vacation is spotty. Have you set any time for the trip yet?
MagicPaddler

Jimbo, you may want to do some research on the My CCR forums - there was one forum dedicated to a 3 or 4 week trip some people took there (something like "The Warners's Woodland Caribou tTrip" or something alond those lines - there may be some route info in the Routes section also, and in the Ontario forum - could be some interesting tidbits of info in there.

Mad_Mat,

Way ahead of you on that one but keep the tips a-flowin'.  You're right, I did find some map info there.

Magic,

Yeah, this trip will be a 10-12 day deal (or more) for sure.  Heck, maybe I'll make it a 14 day trip, let the Bloodvein push me west for seven days, then find some dead water futher south & let the breeze blow me back east for seven days.  Maybe I should do it solo, like KF (a.k.a. "Mr. Wanderlust")?  

Yeah, that's the ticket!  I can see my next story title even now... "The Adventures of Mr. WanderLOST in Woodland Caribou Park".

I still haven't ruled out Quetico for '08.  Lots of lakes there I still want to visit.  So many lakes, so little time....

Jimbo   8-)

The Bloodvein River system flows out of Lake Winnipeg and eventually to Hudson Bay - so you can have the best of both worlds - Current and wind at your back.

Also, as a side, these are different lakes than Q/BW.  Most are shallower but much colder and walleye can be few and far between.  NP and LT abound but I don't remember a single SM when we were there early 90's.  I'd give you my maps Jimbo but they were consumed by the Phantom Phire of 2003.   We were in the southern part of the park so I can't speak to the northern 2/3rds of it.  If I recall, we put in on Leano Lake headed west to . . . can't remember.  It was a 14 day trip - just about equal to the amount of time it took us to get there from Red Lake ONT.  ::)  That road was no more than a wide portage.

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found this link tucked away in my "favorites"

Give Claire or Doug at the WCPP office a call or email

Woodland Caribou Prov. Park
Box 5003
Red Lake, Ontario
P0V 2M0

Tel: (807) 727-1388
e-mail: woodland.caribou.mnr@ontario.ca

They sell the maps by phone and accept credit card. Map is $12 CDN plus taxes = $13.68

Leano on the east side is the most popular entry (you still never see anyone, since it is so remote).  The logging road (50 miles to Leano) has been bad in the past.  It is VERY important to call the park office if your going in on the east side, and find out what that road looks like.

It is not like the BWCA/ Quetico, and your not likely to see anyone, especially on the western side, and during the spring and fall.  Leave a good trip plan with your best friend, before you leave.  They get about 700 visitors a year, and its a big park.  The BWCA gets that many at a single entry point, by the end of June.

The Gammon and Bloodvein rivers/ interconnecting lakes all have walleye.  Pike are throughout.  Lake trout in all the big lakes.  No smallies in WCPP.  Muskie only in Irregular lake in the SW corner.   The office has a nice sheet with known species by lake.

NC_Paddler,

I suspect the $12 map is the "overall" park map that I bought a couple years ago at that price & not the sectional navigational/canoe route maps that I'm seeking.  I certainly could be wrong about that since I haven't called the park office yet.  Sounds like you've been there, done that, so I appreciate the contact info & I'll check out the source.

I spoke directly to the WCPP Supt at the past two CanoeCopias & asked him about "canoe routing maps".  He shook his head & pointed me over to Albert's booth (ie. Goldseekers).  He told me the outfitters were the best source.  From that, I inferred (at least at that time) that he & the park weren't selling the canoe route maps.  He DID give me a great freebie book providing some "general" routes & campsites and a good list of fish species by lake.

Yes, I've heard some horror stories about those roads.  I'm still evaluating the various EP's & various means of accessing them.  One option we're talking about is splitting the party, starting on both the East & West sides of the park, meeting in the middle & switching vehicle keys.  Anyway, the trip is not a definite at this point... just one of a couple strong trip possibilities.

I couldn't agree more about filing that trip plan!

Thanks for the leads!

Jimbo   8-)

your right.  The park sells a "trail map", which is the ONLY map that has the portages.  There are no equivalents to the Fisher or McKenzie maps that your probably looking for.  

You can then buy the topo's from the Gov. or other sites.  I bought the etopo CD from this website.  I then print the maps I need, transfer the portages to the topo's, and then waterproof them myself.  I just use a little kylon spray paint.  I carry several sets, since I'm not a very good water proofer.

Hope this helps.  Its more difficult that the BWCA, but its well worth the effort.

Jimbo,
We went to WCPP last year and it was great.  We saw a group on our first day and last night close to the EPs, but other than that (and a caribou) it was solitude.

We used the park planning map for a bird's eye view, and the topos for navigating.  We copied the portages from the planning map to the topos, and copied additional portages, campsites and fishing info from the Goldseekers maps.

The portages are relatively short and well maintained considering the lack of use (mucky, but relatively clear of blowdown and deadfall).  In the burned out areas, you will learn to love the rock cairns/inukshuks for finding your way.

As said by others, the lakes are typically split - either lakers or walleye - but there are some with both.  Also lots of pike, no bass that we saw (some along the very south end) and we ran into Musky where we didn't think we would (very blue-ish in color too).  

the road into leanno lake is long and slow in places.  watch out for pink tape on the top of sticks - markers for major holes, ruts and wash outs ahead.  

I'd be happy to share our route details, we did a nice loop and covered some good ground.  Just PM me.  I haven't been on here much for the last year as we went to WCPP and not the Q last year, but it's time to start planning this year's Q trip so I'll be re-upping my inukshuk contribution and checking back regularly.