I have started looking at solo canoes and would like to hear from others of thier likes and dislikes of the vessels they have paddled.  I am looking for a solo to take me into the BWCAW and Quetico for upto 3 weeks or more.  I will be on the go most days, only camping in the same spot when forced to, so I will be loaded for 75-80% of the time.  For the rest of the time a float, will be spent fishing or hauling firewood.   The Wehnonah Encounter and the Bell Magic are at the top of my radar, but I am not sure which one, or maybe another, would best suit my needs and my desire for a stable, seaworthy craft that will track straight and carry me off to my dreams.  [smiley=dankk2.gif]  

Wenonah's Advantage, Prism, Voyager,,,some even use the Argosy. I own the last two and the Argosy is a bit small for tripping. But don't check off the Voyager till you paddle it. Lots of QJ guys trip in the 1st 2 mentioned. Don't know if anybody can comment on the new Wilderness??

Look at Bell's Magic, Merlin II.

Souris River has some too.

But try and test paddle it 1st. Specs don't tell all.

And when you test your solo...test it with a load

Just food for thougth - canoes are more or less alike, maybe 80% - the last 20% of difference is all trade-offs.  So it depends on what your preferences are, to best fit that 20% to your liking.  You mentioned "that will track straight" for instance.  If you are a good driver, any canoe will track straight - if not, and that is a high priority, then the Wenonahs are probably better (marginally) than the Bells - BUT, the straighter the boat tracks, the less manouverable it will be - that's your tradeoff.  Typically, a long and lean faster boat will be less stable thatn a slower, wider boat.  Bottom shape comes into play there as well.

Are you intent on NEW? If not, just keep an eye on Craig's list and pick any one of the boats mentioned  in this thread already if you find a good deal.

Be practical - you mention Wenonah and Bell - if they are the only dealers in your vicinity, then no point in considering a Swift or Clipper or Souris or whatever - so choose something that is within your driving distance - don't plan on having a composite boat shipped - really risky unless you pay a lot for crating.

If you go new, then first set your priorities: tracking, stability, speed, weight, capacity, probably are the prime ingredients.  If you put stability over tracking and/or speed, you come up with a different answer.  If you put capacity on top, you get a different answer.  That's why there are so many different boats that people like and "endorse" - they have a boat that fits thier criteria, and think it will fit yours - maybe so, or maybe no.    


Between the Encounter and the Magic, if those were the only two choices, I'd pick the Magic, because it better fits my own preferences for a shorter, more manouverable boat.  I've been toying with buying a new solo off and on - can't decide myself between the Magic and Merlin - Merlin more manouverable, shorter by a foot (I like to travel small streams) and with more rocker, easier to control in high winds vs the Magic, a touch faster, a bit less manouverable.

Probably, what you need to do first is decide on how much weight you will really need to carry, 90% of the time.  You mention 3 weeks or more ?  I could pack 4 weeks of food and gear in any of the solo boats, since I pack light - do you?  if not, you need a pretty good idea of what your weight would be for a 3 week trip or a four week trip or?, plus you - that might make the Encounter the better choice for carrying it all.

You can find a couple of more or less meaningless reviews on Paddling.Net for the Wilderness.  It would be slower than the Encounter, and slower than the Magic, if that matters to you  (and that's just me guessing) - and probably more stable than either of those two.
between the Magic and the Wilderness, I think I'd still go with the Magic.

If you have any interest in a more all around boat, more river friendly than you might take a look at the Rendezvous in composite (special order), maybe the Osprey also, and the Merlin - though it seems that you are looking for a lake boat to me.

And last but not least - its just a stupid boat.  Buy the one that you think is best for you - if you don't like it, sell it, and buy another.  This isn't a do or die choice you are stuck with - hell keep it and buy another, or two - that's the best way to have the "right" boat.

Paddle, Paddle, Paddle-loaded/empty.......Shallow arch bottoms are typical more stable in big water-but feel a little funky gettin in-but you probably know all this anyway. Are you comfortable with the beam-broad shoulders-long torso.....do the packs fit? The more rocker the more manueverable=more corrective strokes/ the flatter the keel line the more draws and such in tight creeks/rivers. Do the Frost in a MN2, or prism for that matter, and you'll understand what I mean. Are you planning to install rock guards on the stems-this changes the rocker!Think about the time that you have for maintenance and how you are going to store the boat-Wood is work- especially outside-is the aesthetic important?.....Do you have the knowledge and tools to re-rail the boat when the wood in done? Think about the portage yoke-Can you carry a the boat with a pack- with the manufacture's style of yoke. Do you need a solo or could you get by with a small tandem.....? If ya R a big person think about it.....in relation to the length of trips, the gear that you carry, and the people that you want to trip with. I am small person- 145 lbs-and after traveling for years with my boy I had to make a switch up to a small tandem-partial to Bell-went from a Creekrunner(discontinued) to a Star Series boat. I fish the boat solo but in wind I need a little weight. I also have the the smallest fire series from Bell-and I dont really care for it-for sale!Think about fit and finish not every boat is the same even if it is the same manufacturer....look it over. I did a lot of paddling-rented boats to trip in- to find the compromise-and any boat's design is a compromise. ANY. Tried Souris, Wenonah, Bell, and such. What feels right to U? 4 me this was the question pondered....Hope this helps. NOw if I had the money and my boy was a bit older and I had the opportunity to buy a small Selega-would have done it!

Though I may not be any closer to finding my boat, the replies so far as left me with a little insight and some questains to ponder.  I may not be planning on shooting any rapids, I would like a little manuverbility for at the landings.  Speed?  Speed is nice but I am more concerned with effeciency.  Easy to paddle.  The Magic is eyecandy, and I like the idea of progressive rocker, but does it have to much?  How is it on the the big water, when the wind has picked up and you have a ways to go to get to that sheltered campsite?  Does it take on any water?  The Encounter has some great line too, I bet it would look good in ivory with the dark stained wood, but how is it at the landings with minium rocker?  Is it as stabile and seaworth as Wehnonah makes it out to be?  

                                          [smiley=dankk2.gif]

Eye candy....my Swift Winisk...a nice solo craft....has a fair amount of rocker...turns on a dime....but also requires a correction stroke more often on long straight runs.

It has nice ash gunwales and cherry decking...which require MAINTENANCE...only if you want them to look good.  Mine have suffered lack of TLC...in fact those spendy ash gunwales and cherrywood are out under a snowbank right now....in the end....I did not want to spend the time or $$ to upkeep them.  I would have been better off without the eyecandy (much lighter too).

"The Magic is eyecandy, and I like the idea of progressive rocker, but does it have to much?  How is it on the the big water, when the wind has picked up and you have a ways to go to get to that sheltered campsite?  Does it take on any water?  The Encounter has some great line too, I bet it would look good in ivory with the dark stained wood, but how is it at the landings with minium rocker?  Is it as stabile and seaworth as Wehnonah makes it out to be? "

too much? or too little? is again, a matter of personal preference.    The 1.5 inches at the bow isn't really very much rocker.  The differential rocker that bell uses is to aid in tracking - sort of skegging the stern - i.e. the stern grips, the bow is looser, so it can turn easier.

That rocker is why I would prefer the Magic over the encounter, if for no other reason.  When the wind is blowing hard and the whitecaps are kicking up, I want to be able to make corrections easily to adjust for quick changes in wind direction and wave direction.  The rocker also aids the boat in climbing a wave, rather than slicing through it - making it more seaworthy, not less.  Flare is also for that purpose - I've never looked at an encounter, but any Wenonah I have looked at does not have a lot of flare - thier claim for the encounter may or may not be valid - keep in mind, that Wenonah is mostly comparing one of thier boats against thier other boats - take thier statements that way, more than as a comparison against other brands.

I have one Wenonah, one Bell, one Dagger and one Mad River so I'm not particularly prejudiced for or against any particular boat maker.  

The differences between any makers boats, if  designed for a particular purpose are going to be small.  Its sort of reverse engineering - you want the boat to do such and such, so it has to have this and that.  The main differences I see between Wenonah and Bell is that Wenonah seems to have a racing tradition that influences thier designs (The "Minnesota Hut" thing, also does - hit and switch works best with a hard tracking boat, so you get max strokes per side before having to switch sides for directional change) - they are trying to build the fastest boats they can for a given set of conditions (speed is more or less equivalent to ease of paddling - but not necessarily so) - in doing so, they trade off some turning ability and some seaworthyness (that's my opinion, obviously not thiers).  Bell's design philosophy seems to be to build a boat that is a bit more of an all-around performer; trade off a bit of speed for better manouverability and seaworthiness.  That's kind of the choice between the two companies offerings.

Wenonah seems to have varied that philosophay a bit with thier Wilderness.  It is a closer camparison to the Magic than the Encounter -looks to me to be probably a bit slower, but a bit more stable and a bit more seaworthy.

Remember again, that the differences are not all that great between two similar boats - you aren't going to find two boats designed for the same conditions, where boat X is way more stable or boat Y is way more fater or way more efficient, if you prefer that term.  None of these boats is going to sink if a wave comes by, and none of them is going to be twice as fast either -

The Wenonah I have is thier Rendezvous solo.  If you look at Wenonah's website, they call it a white water boat.  NO WAY is it a white water boat.  It is a river tripping boat, that is capable of getting through most CII and maybe some CIII if you are a good enough paddler.  But when Wenonah campares it against thier other boats, to them, its thier White Water boat - I'd call that a really large exaggeration.  So I could guess that thier verbiage for other boat descriptions is kindof the same.  Look at Bell's website, and they categorize thier boats differently - they call some river trippers, and others white water - a lot closer to reality than Wenonah's categories.


"The Encounter is optimized to track straight and travel well. Its length is one reason, plus it has fine ends, an arched cross-section, and a straight keel-line."    

and this  "It is stable, yet is fairly easy to turn for its length"

seem to be contradictory to me.  A boat that is optimized to track straight is not going to turn easily, if you ask me.  

Its like me saying a freight train has great acceleration and braking, for its length - sure it does.

the best thing for you to do is test paddle the boats you are interested in, under the same conditions if possible

The Encounter is a really deep boat, it catches lots of wind, unless you are a very big person you would be much better served by a Prism or one of the other canoes discussed.

The creekrunner the I paddle for ......lets see here.....heck it is just easier to say since '93 has taken on little water unless I am washing the fish slim out of it. Been in 30-36" rollers loaded+.... with a stopping head wind.It is actually the only time that I have ever had to pull over due to the aquatic terrain-Holy dudi these are big waves-the boy thought that is great"this is fun" I did not agree. And this is an old design, good design for everyone.... searches me. If you are concerned about gettin' wet look for boats with more bow flare; or you could always wait it out like we did-we found a ton of Otter sign and had a wonderful chit chat, and a good snack and still made it home. Your concerns in regard to landings I have not experienced, but I am a bigg little proponant in stepping on the keel line to get out of the boat, way more stable. If it is a manuverablity issue consider practicing your freestyle moves and get up on your knees and then heeling the boat over to make it more responsive and use "prys and draws" and "skulling"-Practice First!I guess in a nut shell- I have never paddled any boat that I did not like there are some that I just like better than others-whether it be due to looks/beauty, performance, etc, etc. Heck if I had to carry the old chesnut that I had as a guide canoe, lovingly called the BARGE, I would probable be 6"shorter than I am now(110-120 lbs wet), but on the water it was awesome-.....the difference between a caddy/lincoln vs geo.....and the wood OH MY GOD!My campers could almost lay down across the beam. Some like them big and beautiful....some dont.  Dont worry you'll figure it out-and remember it has to work for you not us.  Speed/ eff. is a function of the beam width at waterline to boat length-you can make a bigg Boat more efficient/faster by paddling efficiently-that could be another topic-heated too. Just try them out-rental and demo offer great possiblities to do this in real time. Hope that helps.

Now is the time to look. The selection right now has never been this big. There are so many solo gems my paddle lusts for. I currently have a Mohawk Blazer I converted to a solo with a Perception 3 in 1 C1 seat and I love it.
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But I find myself thinking I want to replace it with something more elegant. Something cleaner and easier to paddle.
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Happy hunting.
Hope you find what you're looking for
SW

I have not paddled the Bell, but it sure does look cool, and has a lot of loyal fans.

I paddled an Encounter last September and loved it.  Plenty of capacity, works good for fishin and very seaworthy.  I don't think you can make a bad choice, given your two options.

Good luck with your shopping.

Hello neighbor, I live in Cambridge. I think you can't go wrong with either choice. I like Bell canoes. I've paddled a prism, and I liked it . It was fast , And it tracked straight. To straight in my  opinion. Now I know that might upset some folks, so what. I own a Merlin2 and a 1989 CJ, both are wonderful in their own way. If you're under 200lbs, I would suggest trying a Merlin2. It is a great boat. Very manuverable, quick and easy to paddle. It doesn't have alot of capacity however. The magic is a sweet ride but Its to narrow for my taste. Check out the new bell Rockstar. It has the exact deminsions as my old CJ +more rocker. I'm 260lbs and they finally built a new solo boat just for me. Did I mention that my "89" CJ is IVORY WITH DARK ASH TRIM -spotless. ::) Sale? Anytime you want to check either boat out I'm right off the Rum River. Midwest mountaineering inMLPS will let you test drive any boat you want.PEACE.

I have the  Wenonah Wilderness, and while I have not paddled it loaded for a trip I have paddled it quite a bit in various situations.  I have paddled it on creeks, rivers, and lakes and it is a good little boat.  I am a bigger guy (6'5 and 290lb) and I just set the adjustable seat in the lowest position, and paddle it with a 7 degree bent shaft and it moves, it can be over steered though... but you learn how to correct that easily.  handles waves and wind pretty well too.  I got it for a good deal also.  It is royalex and weighs in at 47 pounds.  I do plan on taking it to the BWCA sometime next year if possible!

Bruce

I like the Bell Magic fine.  A buddy has one and I've paddled it.  To me it does seem to have limited capacity.  It'll will probably be fine for 3 weeks, but things might be a bit tight.

I owned an Encounter and I didn't care for it.  Too much depth/freeboard.  Really caught the wind and because it rode so high even when loaded it felt unstable.  IMHO, the Prism is a much better solo tripper especially for a moderate length trip.  Personally, I'd choose a Prism over either a Magic or Encounter.

I paddle a Sawyer Autumn Mist for tripping and I like it a lot, but I like a bit shorter boat.  I also own a wenonah Argosy which I also like.  I have not used it for a trip, but the thought has crossed my mind.  I think it would perform well.