Hi all.  I am a new poster here but do have 20 yrs of wilderness canoeing experience.  I would like to hear from any of you who have experience with the BWJ insulated food pack system.  I am a "fresh food' traveler and would like to hear from those who are also.  At $200 for the pack, $100 for the poly box, and another $35 for the liner plus tax and shipping  i'm pushing $400 to get one home  :o and I like to make sure it is a worthwhile purchase.  Your thoughts?  Thanks.

Unless the vast majority of the food you take (by volume) needs to be refrigerated, I'd say the BWJ insulated system is overkill.

I bring fresh steaks and quite a few other items that benefit from being frozen to start a trip.  One small soft-sided cooler holds plenty for a party of 4:

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(The above is not my ad, it just shows the cooler I use)

REI and Cabelas have similar products.  If you need more than one, get two.  You can supplement the coolers with Sterilite or similar plastic boxes to hold your non-perishable foods.  For a party of four, I use 3 sterilite boxes that stack in my pack plus the soft cooler for frozen items.  I pull items out of the "freezer" as needed in time for them to thaw.  I can keep foods frozen for 2-3 days and refrigerated for at least a couple days past that.

I've had to give steaks time to thaw even on day #3 of a trip after pulling them from the cooler in late June...they were still soft-frozen in the middle.  Your mileage may vary depending on air temperature and how much sun-exposure your food pack gets.  

I get maximum benefit by packing the cooler pre-trip and putting it in my freezer at home (left open to allow max cold penetration) until the moment I'm ready to leave, then zip it up tight and throw it in an ice chest for the drive up to the park.  If the  cooler is stuffed full of frozen food there's no need for ice.  The food *is* the ice. Put the least perishable items (or items to be used first) around the edges and the most perishable items (or items to be used last) in the center.

This works well for me and I'd hazard a guess that it weighs a few pounds less when empty than Stu's massive insulated box.

 I use a similar system as SD. I don't bring fresh food like steaks or frozen items, but I do bring cheeses and meat sticks that I want too keep cool.
I have a Granite Gear food pack, about $90. I got in on sale for about $50. I cut a piece of 1" close cell foam that fits the bottom of pack.
 I use the same Sterilite boxes, except for solo, I use 2 of them.
To make it a "insulated" box, I wrap a 1/2" Thermarest foam pad around the boxes. Either the 20" or 25" will do, depending on how hight the boxes stack? I then have a piece of close cell foam as a " lid".
 With this set-up, SD's freezer pack tips, I think you could get the same performance for a lot cheaper than $400.
 Foam and pad serve a dual purpose. The foam wrap, protects the boxes from rocks and wear and tear as you portage.They also "quiet" the food pack. The Thermarest pad will make a great seat on wet or cold ground. You can even put it under your sleeping pad for a little extra comfort if you are forced to use a less than ideal tent area. Last, but maybe not least, if you dump, your heavy food pack will float, no problem ;D
 You can buy the Thermarest pad, Sterilite boxes, and freezer bags for under $50, and the close cell foam you can often find in commercial packing boxes. You could buy the food pack, and save $150 on the extras too make it an insulated pack.

That seems like a lot of money, unless you absolutely want fresh food in the middle of hot summer trips and are willing to pay out the money and put up with the hassle.  My book: it's not worth it.  

Being an experienced tripper, you know food spoilage isn't an issue in Fall and Spring.  We have fresh salad every night on our Fall and Spring trips!  

For all my trips I pre-cook any meat, like breakfast sausages, brats, and even hamburgers, then seal the meat with a foodsaver vacuum seal.   They stay good for 2 or 3 days, and longer on Fall and Spring trips.  Fresh cheese gets slimy after 4 days or so on August trips.  But it's manageable.  I bring in 2 smaller chunks rather than 1 big one, so one stays sealed for as long as possible.  I'm thinking about going to freeze-dried cheese, but haven't done so.  

Good luck!  

prouboy

I forgot to describe, other than pre-cooking and sealing meat, how I try to keep my food cool.

I own a Quetico/Superior Canoe Country foodpack.  I found a plastic box with 3-drawers that fit into the pack perfectly.  See views of pack: open, closed, and harness...

Then, like solotripper and snow_dog, I wrap the entire box with thermarest.  I don't try to insulate the individual drawers.  

With this arrangement, and with pre-cooking, I really don't worry about food going bad.

prouboy

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I do trip with a BWJ pack cooler and it is something that I absolutely love. I deep freeze two gallon jugs of water, put them in the corners of the pack and it keeps all my frozen stuff cold for the better part of a weeklong trip. It is common for us to have chops, pheasant, etc. 4-5 nights into an August trip. Fish caught on one day can be filleted up and eaten the next.

Another real nice thing about it as the ice inside melts it becomes ice water that really slakes that deep down thirst. By switching the contents of the jug we can have ice cold oj for screwdrivers or ice cold bloody marys.

Another really nice part about it is that it's hard sided. Contents stay true to original form (bagels, crackers, tortilla chips, etc.).

It is the perfect size to hold two crazy creek chairs in between the hard box and the outer fabrtic pack. My filet board, sven saw, hatchet and grill grate fit snuggly on top between the box and the pack also. My maps in their their plastic case slide into the outer pocket on portages.

The pack itself is comfortable on the trail, stays behind me and does not swing side to side like the small soft sided coolers that I used to sling over my shoulder.

Is it worth $400 smackers? I don't know, I received the pack from a friend who moved to Taiwan. Would I buy another if my friend moved back and asked for its reurn? I probably would (with the ok from mrs. butcher of course).

thebutcher

nthernigts, you need to know that Stu Osthoff ( BWJ publisher and probably inventer of the system) likes to take fresh fruit, vegetables and I believe milk on his trips as he often states.  Some of us travel with gormet meals and some less so.  Neither is right or wrong.  It's all in what you keeps you comfortable and happy out there.

If it works for you, then it's worth the money.

I know Kondos makes this pack. You can usually check their website to possibly get a better deal. Sometimes they have soem spring clearance items.

CCS makes a similar pack that you soemtimes find on sale at one the spring expos.

I don't use this pack and bring a lot of fresh food, but I am sure it would work fine. The color makes a difference as well, gray would not attract the sun/heat as much as a dark green pack. I don't know if you would really need all of the stuff liek the poly box. The pack itself  would proably be an upgrade for your fresh food.


Tim

For $400 or less, you can buy a good chest freezer. Just put it on wheels & load it up... ::)

BTW, I'm surprised Stu hasn't thought of this. You'll know he's a lurker here when he comes out next year with the field-tested and proven BWJ chest freezer on wheels... (VTP p 86). Of course it will be down-sized a bit to fit in his larger Bell Northshore. :o

Never used the food packs-I suppose that is a throw back from my backpacking days and the investment that i have made in my foodsaver and dehydrator...I would hope that it would be the BOMB for 400 smackers....You could by a pack frame and affix a cooler to it. I have great luck and am completely content with the cheese in my pack after ten days and I actually enjoy dehydrated sweet potatoes more than fresh...but that is me and my backpack days and I like good food...it is part of the adventure for me and the people that i travel with. To each their own....what ever turns your crank-the pack frame and the cooler maybe half ;) Heck why couldn't one just pick up a barrel harness and affix it to a cooler-or poly cyano foam a barrel-inside of course and bedline the inside of that?

If you are still interested in this pack it is on sale at Kondos right now.

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Thanks everyone, and for the link TimA.  I also see that the Kondos non-insulated food pack has a decent sale going too. From the few comments by actual users of this, the BWJ system seems to work well, but $400 is probably more than I am willing to part with.  FYI, what I have done for years has been to fashion my own cooler (from rigid insulation), custom fit to the bottom half of my food pack, with my dry goods on top inside a separate trash bag.  The homemade cooler doesn't last forever, but I have been able to keep fresh meat & milk for four- five days with temps in the 60's & 70's, using the same cooler for several seasons.  I like the idea of plastic boxes for the dry items.  I think I am going to keep using some version of my existing system along with plastic boxes for the dry goods going forward, and probably just purchase a new uninsulated food pack.

NOrthern Lights...Years ago I was exposed to a wannigan....basically a fiberglass hard side foopack-----was thinkin' about making something like this cold friendly-why couldn't you make a barrel cold friendly?   How much is a barrel food pack and some spray foam?

Marlin, It probably could be done without too much hassle if the foam will bond to the barrel.  The spray insulation is only a few bucks a can. I have seen the barrels used by the rangers I have come across in the BW.  They're not for me, but they certainly do keep food protected. I'm sure someone who likes the barrels will eventually give it a try.  I would.

I wonder if one were to scuff up the barrel with sandpaper-say maybe 60-80 grit- and find a lining vessel of the appropriate size and foam the void between-I wonder-the soft sided packs and coolers are attractive too. There is low expanding grade foan that is used for window and door application that would be a bit more attractive for the application....

inner plastic container/barrel .....foam.....outer plastic container. Sounds like a cooler.  ;)

GEEZ! it does doesnt it. Sounds heavy too. I think that i will stick to the dehydrator, the frozen tinfoil newpaper wrapped tech., and my vaccuum bagger.  ;)

If $ is no object, than I'm sure that they're great! If you must have fresh food. I use a 60l barrel for everything. They make a cooler that fits in the bottom. A note on Barrels, upgrade the harness. All my gear except for rods & paddels will fit. Love them or hate them, the best thing about barrels is your gear stays dry,you don't need a chair and I never have to hang my food from a tree.

I purchased one of the BWJ food pack systems, and I regret spending the money.  If you freeze any meat your planning on bringing and use a soft sided cooler, you'll reap the same benefits and save about $350.  The upside to the system:  my wife loves the cold water produced from the melting gallon jugs.

i have the bwj insulated food pack and the wife and i love it. yes this pack can start out heavy, but gets lighter every day. it is easy to hang and easy to carry imo. i have had a bear steal it on a long portage, he tore the zipper and just alittle bit of the pack, before i was able to get it back from him. he did get a bag of treats that was at the top of the pack. once he got something out of it he was willing to leave. he did charge me a couple times just to keep me away until he did get a treat.  we also do dry food trips with bear vaults containers. either system works for us depending on our trip plans.

 vinnie

I have the insulated food pack from Kondos and a cooler that fits in it like a glove,  I made a freezer box out of styrofoam about a inch thick, big enough to finish filling out out pack.  We use dry ice in the freezer section and reular ice in the Cooler.  I can send pics later. or PM me for more information.  Works for our group as we have had stuff stay frozen into day 5 of an 8 day trip.    

With all the reviews, I'll have to try the fresh/frozen food plan sometime.  Since we usually go in early/mid august for at least 8 days, I'm betting frozen food won't stay that way for much more than 5 days in the August sun & heat.  Wonder if the burlap trick (wet a burlap sack routinely and the evaporation cools the contents somewhat) would help keep temps down when sitting all day in a canoe.

jjcanoeguide wrote on Jul 6^th, 2009 at 3:31pm:

With all the reviews, I'll have to try the fresh/frozen food plan sometime.  Since we usually go in early/mid august for at least 8 days, I'm betting frozen food won't stay that way for much more than 5 days in the August sun & heat.  Wonder if the burlap trick (wet a burlap sack routinely and the evaporation cools the contents somewhat) would help keep temps down when sitting all day in a canoe.

 I think it would help for sure. I use this trick to keep a Laker I caught in Jean and gutted and put in Zip lock, then canvas "money" bag fresh and cool while paddling east down Sturgeon on a 90 degree day.
 I kept bag under my seat out of the direct sun, and just re-whetted when needed. I could of kept it cool a long time using this method.
 I "wonder" if you couldn't take a foil type rescue blanket and with the reflecting side out, make a makeshift cover for the food pack as it lay in the canoe? If you had say a big potato burlap bag inside pack, with your food in a plastic liner inside that, if you couldn't wet the burlap before you portage and use the mylar cover, if it wouldn't keep you food a lot longer? Also keep pack out of sun in camp and keep burlap wet overnight.  Between that and the ice jugs, I would think you'd get a few extra days?

The mylar would probably help.  LOL.  I can envision the strange looks you'd get from passers-by at your huge space blanket covered pack.  Some suggested responses:

Asteroid, satellite, rocket, or space junk recovery.
We didn't have a body bag.
Just heating up leftovers from our wild pig roast last night.

jjcanoeguide wrote on Jul 7^th, 2009 at 1:46pm:

The mylar would probably help.  LOL.  I can envision the strange looks you'd get from passers-by at your huge space blanket covered pack.  Some suggested responses: Asteroid, satellite, rocket, or space junk recovery. We didn't have a body bag. Just heating up leftovers from our wild pig roast last night.

 OR, I TOLD that rookie, cut AWAY from you when FILLETING ;)

I'd encourage all of you who bring coolers to stick a thermometer in it. Just because there's a gallon jug with ice in it doesn't mean everything inside your (my god those things are expensive!) name brand whatever is 32, 42, 52 ... degrees. Try a thermometer, I'm sure it will surprise you as much as it always did me.

Keeping things cold is something I cannot consistently do to my satisfaction even after all these years. Evaporative cooling is helpful on windy days - the lower the dew point the better. Cool is doable depending.... You can keep fillets overnight in most any temp but they will still taste, ummm, like seafood in the midwest. Cheesecake? Pudding? No problem.

I've tried a wide variety of approaches and what I miss most is aluminum canoes in Spring. I've even intended to do the math and experiment on whether or not the same size bottle filled with either gas or water (ice) or whatever makes a difference.

Your mileage may vary - GREATLY!     It all depends on what you want or need to keep cool or cold and for how long and how you view risk.

I remember one group trip where we picked out the moldiest (green as I recall) pieces of Kraft pre-shredded cheese ... based mostly on how much we needed to sufficiently cover the pizza before the other toppings went on. Use by dates are meaningless up there and I doubt anyone of us washed our hands before but I know I did after picking out moldy cheese ... excellent pizza none the less.

I have done cream cheese on a pack trip to the Canyonlands-7 days, 70 miles, high desert temps...never have been sick on trail or from trail....KNocking on wood right now ;)I dont worry about cheese to much the hard kind anyway!and the way that I figure it if it doesn't pass the sniff test and/or it doesn't pass the fear test :o I dont eat it. Been sick way more often from restaurants :-[ way more :-/ But with the mylar at least I would be going out in starwars style-May the FORCE be with you all ;)