Well folks, way too many years have gone by since I first posted.  I never intended to be on the site daily, simply a result of work load but heard there was a lot of traffic in recent months so I dusted off my password and checked it out.  Just so you know I'm still alive and well and thought I should tell you what we are up to these days.

New map, as I see the post announcing our new map, yes its finally here and a very good product at that. The people at CHRISMAR took the map out of our hands and I think you will be happy with it.  It corrects all of the little glitches that were found over the years, enjoy!

World Heritage - While we have been busy over the past 8 years with our partners putting together our submission for UNESCO World Heritage Site status for a large area that includes Woodland Caribou, we had our day in front of UNESCO last year only to be told "we like it, it has merit, but there is a little more work to do". So we are back at the drawing board to tie up some loose ends for another presentation, likely in the spring of 2015. Wish us luck and check out the project at   (You need to Login or Register

As you have very likely heard we had a weather event we are calling a SNOWDOWN a little over a year ago that had effects on the entire park. With the help of our own organization giving us two additional crews for a couple of years, a local canoe outfitter clearing some trails and just your average run of the mill paddler clearing their way (and not asking for any compensation - thanks) excellent progress was made. We expect that the few trails remaining will all be "punched open" next year.  At that time we will begin the task of retracing our steps to widen the trails back to our usual standards.  If you are at Canoecopia this spring come and visit, I will be making a presentation about the SNOWDOWN event and the progress made.

Lastly you will notice a few additional routes on the map. Most of which have been identified by Martin Kehoe (thanks Martin) over the past few years.  We have now been able to take them under our wing, so to speak, but we still have a few details to work out on a couple of them so we didnt put the portage detail on the map. We will make it available to you upon request. We just didnt want people to assume that because it is on the map its good to go.  The CHRISMAR folks plan on doing more regular map updates than we were able to do, so the new info will be on the next map I'm sure.

As usual we are happy to answer any questions you may have.  Use is still about the same at 6-700 padders a year, so you can be assured of that solitude you are seeking.

We still happy to be part of the QJ experience.

I'll try and provide a few more updates if time permits.

Doug

Welcome Doug!  Glad to have you here.

Boy that was fast , thanks for the welcome

Doug,

Welcome to QJ!

I don't know if you & Claire keep working hours on Saturdays through canoeing season.  If you do, some of us may be dropping in for a visit on Saturday, June 27th, en route to checking in with Albert at Goldseekers.  We'll be staying at the Norseman that night & trucking down to Leano on Sunday morning.  If we miss you then, it might be that we can drop in after exiting the park on Friday, July 10th.

I certainly appreciate all the info that you & Claire have provided for our two week trip!  I know you can be a marvelous resource for those in the QJ community seeking to experiment with new tripping destinations.

Hey, I am currently looking for a good book that will help me clearly identify flora & fauna in your region of Ontario & particulary in WCP.  Any recommendations for a primer?  

We look forward to your comments & participation on QJ!

Jimbo   8-)  

Hey Doug -

Thanks for spending the hour+ with me at copia!  I truly enjoyed our time pouring over maps and talking about fishing, artifacts and future plans for the park.

I've decided to go ahead and launch with Jimbo and company at Leano on June 28th (rather than use the Garner Lake EP from Manitoba) although my travel may be a bit more "detached" that many of the others in the group.  So like Jimbo ... looking forwarding to seeing you again on June 27th or July 10th!

BTW:  Thanks for forwarding the informational links!

dd

Fogive me if I don't respond to the right person first - still trying to "get up to speed"! July 10th looks like a better date than the end of June. At this stage in the use of our park being open on the weekend is not happening. We have been known tho, to drop in and gab with friends at Goldseekers before they go out on their trip.
As far as books we tend to use 2 quite frequently right now. Plants of the Western Boreal Forest & Aspen Parkland by johnson, Kershaw, MacKinnon and Pojar ... and Wetland Plants of Ontario by Newmaster, Harris and Kershaw. Both are from the Lone Pine Press family.

Welcome aboard! Snowdog & I did a WCPP trip about 10 years ago. Thoroughly enjoyed it.

I'm wondering if a mod can import past WCPP posts from elsewhere (I think most are in 'Other places...' forum) to this forum.  [smiley=dankk2.gif] [smiley=thumbup.gif] [smiley=thumbup.gif]

Thanks, glad to be here. I'm not sure about past WCPP posts, I can ask.

Welcome Doug...I'm impressed!  

I enjoyed visiting with you in Madison, Wisconsin, this winter.  I just posted a note on this website in response to a question from someone interested in going to WCP, where I complimented you for managing the WCP so as to protect its fragile ecosystem, and not pushing for more visitors beyond the Park's carrying capacity.  It is such a treasure...I'm glad it's in good hands.

prouboy

Madison was a great show, once again.  I met quite a number of new folks interested in coming up our way.  Of course we want people to come and enjoy what WCP has to offer. But it is important to us to keep the use at the appropriate level.  You won't find us trying to shoehorn people into the park.  We are pround of the park and of Red Lake and know that we can have a win - win - win where the experience will meet the paddlers expectations, the community of Red Lake and surounding area will benefit and the park will reach a break even point.
I am loking forward to using this great site to "spread the word"

Doug --  I'll be making my next trip to the Park in the summer of 2010.  

Several questions:

1. Is Albert Rogalinksi/Goldseekers still in business?

2. Is it true the Park will be removing interior cabins next summer?  

3. Can you send me your latest Park Plan?  If so, I will send you a PM with my address, etc., or I could just send a letter to your Headquarters.
 
Thanks much.

prouboy

i too am interested in summer 2010 for "another spot". I can hear my wife now, "another set of maps to pour over?" if nothing else the solitude sounds pretty hard to beat. anybody have any first hand fishing experience/ stories to share? species available? flat water vs. rivers, etc? topography, established campsites, water clarity? best route of speedy travel from the twin cities - time to get there?

thebutcher

My apologies to those who posted beyond this point in the thread.  (Most posts were in regards to WCPP Maps.)  I made a poor attempt to separate these posts to a separate thread to keep this thread more in focus, and in the process managed to remove not only my own post, but those of others.

Again, my apologies.

dd

1. Is Albert Rogalinksi/Goldseekers still in business? Yes

2. Is it true the Park will be removing interior cabins next summer? Interior, private recreation cabins with provincial land use permit tenure are scheduled to be phased out in 2010. A review is currently going on in this regard.  

3. Can you send me your latest Park Plan?  If so, I will send you a PM with my address, etc., or I could just send a letter to your Headquarters.Sure we can send you a CD of the plan. Just send a request to woodland.caribou.mnr@ontario.ca with your address and we will look after you

Thanks much for your response to my questions Doug.  I'll send the email and look forward to reading the plan.  

prouboy

I think understand about the 2010 cabin thing ....does this mean that the fishing cabins will be out of commission for good for the fly in folks? Will they be tore down or left for time to work on them? Curious.

I just want to be clear. The 2010 removal of fishing cabins are only for the private recreation permits not the commercial outpost camps. If those permits are indeed to be cancelled then the cabins will have to come down in a timley manner (possibly within a year).
but to re-confirm the commercial fly-in outpost camps will remain.

DG

I am also new here,  frequent the BWCA.com a lot.  am going to WCPP August 7th  can't wait.
SunCatcher

Welcome SunCatcher... I'm heading up Tuesday morning. Hope to be in Red Lake before noon.

I also was at copia and sat in on Doug and Martins talk...that is what fueled the fire in my belly to WCPP.  Originally was going to do first solo in BWCA or Quetico...but after seeing the pics and Martin talk...I just had to plan the trip to WCPP.  I will arrive at Red Lake on Aug 8th and be in the headquarters on the Morning of the 9th (Monday)  can't wait.
Pretty much got everything in line but a few map questions for Claire or Doug.  7 days and 6 nights.  Here comes the "boy" from Nebraska.
SunCatcher

SunCatcher,

If I can possibly assist with routing, I'd be happy to.  My party recently returned from a Lund - Knox - Murdock - Irvine - Royd - Gammon - Prairie - Indian House - Lund "loop".  Last year we did a Leano - Kilburn - Paull - Aegean - Wrist - Mexican Hat - Leano "loop".

If info on any of that might be useful, let me know.

Jimbo   8-)

Jimbo,
Going to Leano and then to Burnt Rock Hansen Wrist and through Agean's to Paul and then back to Leano.
7 days 6 nights.  any advice or campsite suggestions, what-outs, or whatever would be appreciated as it is all new to me.  Been to the BWCA but this is first solo and WCPP trip.  I have everything ready to go...can't wait.  
SunCatcher

SunCatcher wrote on Jul 25^th, 2010 at 10:21pm:

Jimbo, Going to Leano and then to Burnt Rock Hansen Wrist and through Agean's to Paul and then back to Leano. 7 days 6 nights.  any advice or campsite suggestions, what-outs, or whatever would be appreciated as it is all new to me.  Been to the BWCA but this is first solo and WCPP trip.  I have everything ready to go...can't wait.   SunCatcher

You might want to take a look at my solo trip report from THIS year.  Based on your route, I ran from Leano to Hansen in JUne.  However, my route into Mexican Hat was via Jake rather than Burnt Rock.  I think the general consensus from our trip LAST year was the the route via Jake (although more portages) was easier than Burnt Rock (unless the portage into Mex Hat has seen a portage crew since then).

Going into Hansen, be prepared for the "Chute" just before Hansen.  Its a good place to get dumped.

dd

Talked to Claire a week or so ago.  She said the crews were on the Leano Loop like this last week working that route.  So will find out I guess.  I understand the 800 meter portage is downhill to Mexican Hat.
I also just want to go to Burnt Rock I here it is a pretty lake.
SunCatcher

Just got back from that route from Leano, Jake, Mex Hat, Wrist, Aegean, Paull, Elephant Head and back to Leano. I saw no crew or sign of things being done... just signs of things to be done. I'm not complaining... we enjoyed the challenges. I thought of DD a lot while going the same way to Mex Hat... The portage going into Mex Hat was the biggest challenge and the dogs did better than I did. I fell pretty hard while carring two packs, but got right up to my sons surprize. I thought the falls were awesome. There was a float plane at the end of the portage, he seemed nervous about being there and took off. We walked up the portage to Burnt Rock Lake a ways... It's obviously much less used. If you intend to do the route you suggest in seven days, your pushing it in my opinion. Get an early start the first day... Getting a fishing lisense took a long time. We barely got our park permit and they closed the office for a little while. We were dissappointed with the campsite map. There is no way a fair amount of the sites listed are suitable. The road to Leano is not a fast road... Plan about two hours, they say an hour and a half... depends on your vehical and what your willing to put it through. By the time everything happened we could only get to a site at the end of Leano the first day.

Thanks nctryBen, DD, and Jimbo for all the Help...,
I figured I could play by ear...but am going to Burnt Rock and If tired I will shoot West to Wrist instead of going North to Hansen.  I actually want to see Brurnt Rock and do the 800 meter portage as a chhallenge.
Anyway Thank you all for your help.
SunCatcher

nctry_Ben wrote on Jul 30^th, 2010 at 3:55am:

There is no way a fair amount of the sites listed are suitable.

Amen to that!!!  We spent 12 days in the park further north.  MAYBE 40% of the campsites shown in park literature even exist!  Either that OR their standards for campsites are incredibly low in WCP.  Their campsites are smaller, further apart, & often don't exist.  As a hammock camper, it doesn't much matter to me; just give me two suitable trees & a decent flat rock to land my canoe.  However, if you are tent-camping in WCP, think small tent pads and be prepared to clear out spots from the brush, especially if you get off the established canoe trails.

Nevertheless, none of this will deter me from returning to this beautiful park!  

Just be prepared & you will be fine.

Jimbo   8-)

Jimbo wrote on Jul 30^th, 2010 at 1:19pm:

nctry_Ben wrote on Jul 30th, 2010 at 3:55am: There is no way a fair amount of the sites listed are suitable. Amen to that!!!  We spent 12 days in the park further north.  MAYBE 40% of the campsites shown in park literature even exist!  Either that OR their standards for campsites are incredibly low in WCP.  Their campsites are smaller, further apart, & often don't exist.  As a hammock camper, it doesn't much matter to me; just give me two suitable trees & a decent flat rock to land my canoe.  However, if you are tent-camping in WCP, think small tent pads and be prepared to clear out spots from the brush, especially if you get off the established canoe trails.

I must admit to having done a bit of campsite research before I departed.  One avenue I used for this was to read as many trip reports as possible from   (You need to Login or Register  This gave me a little insight into at least one campsite on each lake I was planning to visit ... that, plus my route this year (Leano to Mex Hat) I'd traveled last year.  In addition, with my anticipated late start this year, I specifically asked the WCP Staff about campsites on western Bunny and the no-name lake just beyond.

So, based on my experience from this year, the only campsite I had to spend time "brushing out" was my exit campsite on Hjlarmar Lakes (which I assumed would be iffy).

But a warning to the wise!  The park staff has not formally released their campsite map.  Their plan is not to do so until they have CONFIRMED the identified campsite.  Thus, you should anticipate availability at something like the level of the PCD where the only reference to the campsite comes from Legacy Forest.  These I would call "historical" campsites ... sites that might have been identified in the past 100 years ... and by now have no resemblance to a campsite that we would recognize.  I found this to be the case with a campsite I stayed on in a no-name lake just north of Hurlburt in Queticio.  You could find a few scattered rocks that were once a fire ring, but other than a partially destroyed small tent pad, the site was covered with 6 inches of raindeer moss (and that stuff doesn't grow very fast).

So, based on my knowledge of the campsites within WCP, I made the conscious decision not to press on into late day travel unless I was absolutely certain that I had a campsite to go to at the end of that leg.

dd

I suppose this should be a whole new thread... But we did get a map handed to us from the park office and although we found campsites by using it we found most campsites don't exsist. Even many with fire rings there was no way to clear for a tent pad, let a lone two. I thought of Jimbo and his hammock while I was out there... My next investment! I think group sizes in WCPP are best kept very small. At the present I don't see the park able to handle near the people as the BW and Q for the campsite reason alone. A group of three guys who we met going in and paddled parallel to us to Mex Hat made a point to ask me to not tell anyone about the park. I understand thier concern, but to late... The word is out. I saw at least six different groups out there as I was out there. None to big... The biggest group was a group of four on Aegean going to see the falls. I was at a campsite that Doc pointed out as a good one to me. It was... but the sad thing was a group had deposited thier human waste rather close to the tent pad. It looks like they had no choice, but I found a better place. Same with the little island on Wrist. We found ourselves paddling to the bigger island to do our business. And yes we had dogs with... We were careful to pick up after them in campsites and portages. We found ourselves picking up after others too. Well, I better get back to unpacking... ;D

I wonder if Doug or somebody from the WCPP staff could tell us what kind of usage the WCPP got this year compared to previous years. It seemed I've heard of a number of people that were surprized at the number of people they met this year in the park.

nctry_Ben wrote on Jul 30^th, 2010 at 6:05pm:

I thought of Jimbo and his hammock while I was out there...;D

Campsites?!?  We doan need no stinkin' campsites!!  [And you ain't gonna find many, either, in WCPP!]

El Jimbo   8-)

Its_Worth_Wild,

I understand that float planes will be limited in WCPP in 2011?  Is that correct?  If so what lakes will they be able to land on?
Thanks,
SunCatcher

SunCatcher wrote on Dec 6^th, 2010 at 12:18am:

Its_Worth_Wild, I understand that float planes will be limited in WCPP in 2011?  Is that correct?  If so what lakes will they be able to land on? Thanks, SunCatcher

There is a map some place that identifies the fly-in lakes ... its part of the park management plan.  If Doug doesn't get back to you relatively soon, maybe I can locate it. (Doug is the park superintendent, uses the ID "Its_Worth_Wild.")

dd

Park use this year was up about 17% from last year. However last year it was down about 20% which mean we almost made up the ground we lost.

That translates into approx 650 paddlers.

Fly in lakes in 2011. In July of this year, locations to fly in to will be reduced to 4.  Lower Artery Lake, Sabourin lake, South part of Hansen Lake and Donald Lake.
This decision is identified in our 2007 approved mgt plan.  We heard loud and clear to find ways to reduce the amount of motorized use in WCPP.
On the aircraft part, the selection of lakes was based on average trip length and to place them where aircraft already land.  
We also considered the many lakes on the edge (outside) of the park where landing is permitted, such as Eagle Lake, Dowswell Lake, Carroll Lake on the Manitoba side, Obukowin Lake (MB), Gammon River (MB), Garner LAke (MB), Robert Lake, Job Lake, Mimi Lake, Valhalla Lake. Don't forget you can use those in your plans.

DG

Jimbo is right ...but with an explanation!
Campsites are generally on the small side, they are not plentiful, that is to say the shorelines are not that well developed with sites. Our approach is this: its not so bad that the current use is low (650 paddlers), our guests love the solitude, we are identifying and confirming all campsite locations and we will continually update our map and provide it to you as a planning tool.  
We are also identifying potential sites as we beleieve we will have to create some new sites to deal with the increasing use over the coming years.  When we have completed out projects some sites that you may have used in the past won't be on the map. That is because that site, for a specific reason had another value that was placed higher, eg. burial site, ceremonial site, significant archaeological site, high caribou value or sensitive natural (eg. plant) value.
Some of these small sites will continue to get larger, but we would rather that happen gently over time than carving them out now when the use doesn't demand it.
We would like to see the park increase its use but only to a point. Right now that is one of its most valuable features. We don't want to lose that.  Tell me if my use numbers are off; BWCA - > 100,000, Quetico 20,000, WCPP < 700. That alone should attract some people that are feeling claustrophobic in other spots.

Doug -

I noticed that you'll be presenting on Friday at Canoecopia.  Is this a joint presentation with Martin?

You staying around for Saturday/Sunday?  Any of the other WCPP staff going to be there?

dd

Where did you find a schedule? I am part of an Ontario Parks presentation, don't knwo the day and also part of a presentation to identify Ontarios newest protected area.

Yes, I plan on being there for the full 3 days - wouldn't miss it. I am the only WCPP member there - so no Claire!

The Canoecopia website has the schedule. And I think I saw you on Friday at 5 or 5:30PM Doug. It sounded like Martin was going to be with you. I know he plans to attend the show.

Oh, snap...of all the years to miss CanoeCopia! It's going to be my first trip to WCP and wanted to meet you and Harlan from Red lake Outfitters.

I am sending emissaries from my group though.

Thanks Doug!  I enjoyed your presentation and am planning to try WC instead of Q before long.

I'll be up there next Wednesday, hope to see you and Claire as I check in. Going in Johnson, paddling down to Onnie and out tword Glenn and Hansen.

Wed June 1st Claire will be here, I'll be in Red Lake at an open house but we may cross paths.  You may be one of the first people to walk the "magic carpet" on Johnson. Let me know how you like it and how it worked.  Wondering what I am talking about, I bet.  You'll see!

DG

its_worth_wild wrote on May 26^th, 2011 at 2:13pm:

Wed June 1st Claire will be here, I'll be in Red Lake at an open house but we may cross paths.  You may be one of the first people to walk the "magic carpet" on Johnson. Let me know how you like it and how it worked.  Wondering what I am talking about, I bet.  You'll see! DG

The "magic carpet" was neat. It was harder to see coming out as the rain had brought up the water levels to where it was under water a bit.