Greetings one and all. I'm just curious to hear from everyone on what is the oldest age they have seen someone busting their humps up in Quetico. I remember my first trip in 1979 when I was nine years old, and we had a guy in our party that was 54, which my dad commented at the time was the oldest he's seen up there, in all of his trips dating back to the late 50's or early 60's. Now as my dad approaches 70 (about two years away), and him not having been to Quetico in the past ten years, I'm beginning to wonder if Quetico will just now become a place in his fondest memories, or if he has a few more trips left in him. I think he's certainly physically capable, as he still walks 18 holes of golf 3 or 4 times per week, although like most of us, he's put a few pounds on in the middle. I think he would admit, after about twenty, 7 to 10 day trips in Quetico over the years, almost all of them from long distance drives from St. Louis, he has a little bit of "been there, done that" kind of feeling about the place. I mean, let's face it, even for all of us with the "what's around the next bend" kind of spirit, after a few trips up there, we all know it's just more evergreen trees, water, and rocks. I guess I'm kind of feeling like I would like to have a couple more trips with my dad, since my two boys, 16 and 13, really have no interest in that kind of adventure. What say you everyone?

TBL,

There are those that participate here on the Quiet Journey forum who are in their 60's and 70's and still trip into the BW and Q. I guess "too old" will vary from one person to the next with the easiest answer being when one is no longer physically capable though that is sometimes a mindset issue. I myself never tire of the evergreens, water and rocks. No tree, rock or wave is the same as another and all can be appreciated for their only one of a kind characteristics. For me, with every year that passes, my desire to go to canoe country increases so I do not know if I will ever get "too old". As it is Thanksgiving, I am thankful for each trip in that I get to take.

WR

Seems to me that Magic Paddler's older brother was about 73 (or thereabouts) when we encountered him trying to do the first Bushwhackers Jamboree right in the middle of nowhere in Quetico.  And remember, we were talking "bushwhacking" NOT portaging!

Stay in shape, apply your smarts and you can go a long ways for a long while in the wilderness... or at least I hope to.

Jimbo   8-)

TBL- I was fortunate to be able to go on long and remote canoe trips into the Quetico with my dad until he was 85.  Check out my trip report LacLaCroix August 13-23 2009 for a recounting of this year's BWCA trip with older campers.  We purposely avoided portaging and still had a wonderful trip.  Perhaps even more so because no one was feeling physically over worked.
What I have learned is that as the younger, and theoretically fitter, member in the group YOU will get to do the brunt of the physical labor.  I think the greatest issue of older campers is physical strength and stamina; they can and do keep up and stay enthusiastic, but the body wears out quicker and takes longer to bounce back.  After a while they are utterly exhausted.
How well does dad sleep on hard ground and rocks on a cool damp night?  Being able to rest comfortably has a lot to do with anyone's energy level the next day.
IC

Interesting comments so far. IC, you make a good point about how one sleeps on hard ground having such a huge effect on someone's trip. I have made about eight trips myself, averaging about a week long, and the one thing I can say about sleeping in Quetico is that I have never really been comfortable while sleeping, and I don't think my dad has either. Pillows have always been inflatable or makeshift from a clothing bag so we often wake up with stiff necks. We've run the gammet of air pads, from cheap manual pump types to quality Thermarest self-inflating mattresses, but even those don't leave us feeling restful. Those new ultralite cots that weigh only a couple pounds, sold by Piragis and Cabelas look kind of interesting, but they're over $200 a piece. What do you guys find is the best sleeping solution for a restful night sleep?

thinblueline wrote on Nov 27^th, 2009 at 12:59am:

What do you guys find is the best sleeping solution for a restful night sleep?

A good workout during the day and a shot of Makers Mark in the evening ;)

I have never liked bundles of clothes doubling as or inflatable pillows. I bring the 2 full size pillows that I sleep on at home. I don't care if combined they weigh in at 3-1/2 pounds, they are the most important item that I bring along. I use a full size Thermarest, a good sleeping bag and my two familiar pillows and sleep like a baby. Those two pillows strategically placed in my Duluth Pack also cushion my back nicely when portaging. Many have asked my why I pack them along........I have never had a stiff neck or sore back. I remember a few cold nights but those were in the pre Thermarest and poor sleeping bag days.

WR      

If the old man cant sleep on the ground hang him.  I hang my self and I sleep better than my bed at home.

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I plan to pay some college whipper-snapper, to drag my wrinkled butt around.
His (or her  ::)) bonus reward...stories, info, whiskey.

WR - I agree about having a pillow from home.  Two  :o is quite a move toward comfort.  I buy an inexpensive fiber pillow of normal size, saw it in half with a sharp kitchen knife and take a half pillow in a pillow case.  You can also find them in half-size.  I use two pads, one is a thick closed foam mat and on top I use an Insul-mat inflatable pad.  That keeps me warm, dry, smooths out the knobby bumps and makes the top layer soft for the body curves.  IC

Stumpy wrote on Nov 27^th, 2009 at 2:55am:

I plan to pay some college whipper-snapper, to drag my wrinkled butt around. His (or her  ::)) bonus reward...stories, info, whiskey.

Stumpy,

Not a bad idea. Mr. Evinrude and Sca-ish are potentially on there way to joining the armed forces. I won't need to pay some wet behind the ears college kid to drag my butt around up there. Rude and Ish are seasoned canoe country adventurers and being my sons I'll have them and their respective buddies drag my carcass around up there..........free of charge. What's it cost to raise the average kid now days? I won't have to pay a red cent my remaining years to go into canoe country.

WR

Magic,

Sca-ish did the hammock route last August during our trip in and now swears by it........maybe he can teach and old dog, his old man, a new trick.

IC,

I have experimented with the half pillows and downsized pillows while car camping having my two old stand-bys along just in case. Many items on my list of gear have changed through the years but those two pillows remain as absolutes.


WR
     

My late Dad always told me too work SMARTER not HARDER ;)
The older I got, the more I realized what that meant.
A strong mental attitude will do wonders especially as the body ages.
I need my 8 hrs sleep, always have even when a young guy.
I'm a side to side sleeper, but if I wasn't, I'm be in a hammock for sure.
I once saw a couple on Quetico lake that were easily in their late 70's-early 80's. He was humping the canoe and a food pack, she had a big Duluth pack. The said they had been tripping since they were in their teens.
They only went for shorter trips now, 4-5 days and back. Sometimes a long hard portage WAS the days trip ;) There's NO reason your Dad can't go until HE decides his body can't take the rigors. Let him set the pace and decide what he wants to carry. He might end up outworking you ;)

As most people on this board know, we have been tripping in the BWCA (with a few excursions into the Q in days gone by) for 38 years.  We are now 64 and have finished our 25th trip, which was completed seven months after Spartan1 had a kidney transplant.  He has been an insulin dependent diabetic for 34 years, and we took trips for fifteen years while he was following the kidney disease diet restrictions.   I have arthritis in my spine, knees, and shoulders and have had shoulder, thumb, and knee surgery in the past ten years.  None of this has kept us from canoe tripping as often as we could  get the chance.   Our trips have ranged from 4-22 days in length, with the average being 8.  We didn't start out doing any layover days; we do now.            

There are some reasons that we choose to go to the Boundary Waters now rather than the Q, and for us they make sense.  We now take somewhat easier trips, on smaller lakes with shorter portages.  I prefer the convenience of the pit toilet because of my back and knee situation--it is just more comfortable for me.  We enjoy vacationing in the United States and not having the hassle of the Canadian paperwork and customs, etc.  We don't like getting a tow, and prefer all-paddling trips.

But we are NOT too old at 64 for canoe tripping.  We are planning now for our June trip.  Fortunately, we both sleep well on pads.  In fact, in spite of my back problems,  I sleep better up there than I do at home.  

The secret, in my opinion, to canoe tripping into your older years is to gauge what you can do, try to prepare physically for what you are going to need to accomplish, keep a positive attitude about your abilities as well as your limitations, and plan a trip that is appropriate for your own personal situation.  It isn't a contest.  There isn't a prize for the ones who do the most strenuous trip, who make the most miles or portage the hardest portages.  

The canoe country is for those who are willing to make the effort.  But everyone doesn't have to be young and strong to experience it.  Adjust your expectations, look for a trip that will suit your needs, and go for it!

How old is too old? A number of years ago the director of my Ph. D. research asked me, "How many more of those trips are you going to make?"

I answered, "One too many."

I was 71 last spring and the guys with me, ranging from 5- to 20-years younger than I, agreed I was the toughest guy on the trip. And we did a rugged bushwhack.

So my answer is, "it depends." Fitness, character of trip, quality of gear -- all of which have been discussed above.

As a footnote, sleeping on a Therma-rest, with wadded-up jackets for a pillow, I sleep great on the ground.

Tim

"Two old"?? When you're dead...?

I have a magnet on my file cabinet. It reads: Fish Hard, You Can Rest When You Die.

Tim

My Dad was 80 on his last Quetico trip with me and my Brother - like you stl, we wanted to do another trip with Dad.  I don't remember the particulars, but it would have been something like 120 miles and 50 or more portages.  I still consider that to have been one of the toughest trips I have ever done, mostly due to conditions.  We didn't let my dad carry the 69# Grumman, but he did carry a pack each trip across the portages - we double trip.

In hindsight, I wish I'd started getting lighter gear back then, rather than a few years later.  Now, I've gone to ultra-light gear for everything, planning on continuing my trips to Quetico as long as I can - making the trips a lot easier, even now,  by carrying less weight.  If I'm not in the Q at 80 (I'm 58 now) it'll be because my knees give out, but I'm planning on being there.  Looking forward to retireing someday, so I can spend more time, maybe longer trips, and trying some other loacations.

Mad Mat:

Retirement is the best job I ever had. My wife, however, complains, "You never get a day off."

Tim

My grandfather made has last trip with us at 83. He was tougher than most well through his 70s. He lead us through a massive 6 hour bushwack when he was 79 and I was 19, barely made it through myself.

It was a pretty tough decision for him the year he decided to not go back.

On our last trip we had four 50-somethings (one of the guys may have been 60), a 40-something and an early 20-something who looked to be strong and in decent shape.

At end of the first (long travel) day, the college kid -- even though he'd been one of the ones who got to single portage -- ate a quick supper, took a handful of Ibuprofen and went to bed really early.

At end of the trip, he sighed and said something along the lines of "it's embarrassing to be half everybody's ages and barely be able to keep up. That first day kicked my *&^$#."

Sounds like most others on this forum have had similar experiences, or rather live them every day.

I hope to emulate you fellows. If I'm wandering the woods at 83 like rmb's grandfather, I will die a contented man.

-- kypaddler

kypaddler:

Die a contented man...that's a noble goal, well worth the effort.

Tim

kypaddler:

The comment from the 20 something isn't surprising too me.
When I was into the health club workout scene, I had friends who taught various group exercise classes. From aerobics/step/spin and circuit classes that combined aerobics with weights, I was almost always the oldest guy in the room.

 The young 20 something girls and guys would come in and you could see by the look on their faces that they thought they're were in the senior fitness class and that they were not going too get the hard workout they were looking for.

 Most classes start with a slow warm-up and then they kick into high gear. They also have times when your jumping back and forth between endurance and working at YOUR highest heart rate that's within the safe limit for your age and fitness level.

The "kids" would be jumping and shouting during the warm-ups and looking at us "older" people like we were DOA ;D

Well, an hour long class taught by the right instructor, is like a paddling trip, all about endurance and economy of motion. By the middle of class the kids were sucking wind, stopping for water and walking in back of room too catch their breath.

Meanwhile the "dinosaurs" were kicking butt and continued doing so until the cool down and stretch part at the end.

 ANYONE can go like hell for a short period, maybe even a hard paddle day. But getting up the next day and being able to give a good days effort is another thing. Part is physical, learning how to work hard when you need too, and "conserving" when you don't ;)

The biggest thing IMHO, is the mental toughness. Life/work is a grind. Some days suck but you show up anyway. Learning that hard fact of life translates into recreational activities as well. On a long trip or a short one with obstacles, I'll take the mentally tough dinosaur over the young physically strong "buck" any day. Some will rise too the challenge, but many just want to quit. After all we live in a society that gives kids Trophy's just for showing up :(  Unfortunately, in the real world, that doesn't get the job done!

My wife and I (mid-50's) had our youngest daughter and her husband (both late 20's) join us this year on a 7-day Quetico trip.  They did just fine, but I have to admit an inward smile or two as they struggled with wind and/or portages.  One portage, was particularly long and steep - son-in-law and I portaged the canoes across and as he was putting his canoe down, he said, 'that's the hardest thing I've ever done.'  I replied, 'great, now let's go get the packs'........ ;)