Hi,

I am planning to return for our 4th trip into Q in August with my son who will be 11 months old. I have been trying to get information on routes, tips other items that make for good tripping with a baby. I usually enter at Nym and this year would like to try another northern entry point with the consideration of shorter portages and small bodies of water. If any of you have suggestions and/or thoughts I would appreciate it!

Hmmm.  Not sure that's possible (small water, short portages) in a northern entry except perhaps the Lerome - Sue Falls route.  If you would do Nym-Batch portage with an infant; Sue Falls portage would be comparable.

Okay, really the small waters is not the issue, but the portaging is with in some reason I guess. Any thoughts on routes with entry points again in the north - Pickerel, Stanton, Lerome, etc. that are about a week with some lay overs/camp days and since this will be new (paddling with a baby) shorter days on the water. Any ideas?

Theoretically you could do Pickeral/French with no portages except from the parking lot.  Stanton is a mild portage to the water same with BH.  Lerome has a few shorties until you get to Sue Falls and eventually into Quetico.  From Lerome, Bewag is a nice pass through lake with some nice nooks and cranny's away from the main part of the lake and some decent campsites that offer privacy and a only a crown land permit is required.

I might also suggest some of the crown land north of Atikokan; i.e. Dashwa, Crow Rock and that whole White Otter area.  Closer to blacktop in case you need to get the wee one out of the wilderness in a hurry.

Thanks! That helps me out, I will take closer look into your suggestions and get back likely with other questions.

You could enter at BH, take the short easy portage into Quetico lake and easily spend a week exploring from a base camp somewhere North of Eden Island. You could make it a loop by taking the short portage from Quetico lk back into Cirrus and then out at BH.

Entry at BH and loop through Quetico Lake  - Cirrus and back to BH sounds good. What is the 21.6 km road like in a car? I take it the Park staff should have a status update coming soon? I have seen the picos on Quetico Lake, is there any other exciting historic items, etc and any good sites for base camping?

There is the excitement of discovering boat caches and the excitement of seeing and hearing bush planes...some of which are historic...paddling in their landing zones could be exciting...the excitement of slapping mosquitos...that of trying to distinguish between the buzz of skeeters, and that of a distant incoming plane...what else could you possibly want?

I guess I need to define 'historic' items for some...why would one paddle in a landing zone?

Hey there Seymour,
Not all is at it appears. The careful and nuanced blending of harmless, humorous, sarcasm that is at the same time filled with insightful wisdom has been perfected and brought to an art form at this forum (much to my delight I might add).  

Seymour wrote on Mar 30^th, 2010 at 2:54am:

Entry at BH and loop through Quetico Lake  - Cirrus and back to BH sounds good. What is the 21.6 km road like in a car? I take it the Park staff should have a status update coming soon? I have seen the picos on Quetico Lake, is there any other exciting historic items, etc and any good sites for base camping?

The road in shouldn't be a problem.  I normally go in Mid-May, and have only seen the road in poor shape a few times and in select spots. Everything from 4 wheel drive pick-ups to compact cars are in the parking lot, so unless there was a especially wet and rainy season, I don't think you'll have a problem.
The Park office would know if there was one.
If you get your permits at the Park office, you don't have too check in at the BH ranger station. The planes do come in there, but if the wind is up, or you don't want to paddle across, you can hug the north shore and paddle east to Quetico river and short portage into Quetico lk.
 There's a little swift as you come into the first portage landing on your right. There's another landing closer to run-out on the right as well.
 That swift can be deceptive! Depending on water levels, it can be an easy paddle up, or you get half way up, and find yourself going backward or worse sideways and over. More than one paddler has been lulled into complacency and taken a dump there.
 If you decide to paddle up, hit it hard and don't stop paddling until you in flat water.  You can also stay on right shoreline, and dependiong on water level, get out and walk you canoe up to first portage.
 Once on Quetico lk, the planes shouldn't be an issue, other than the buzzing sound ;D  Price you pay for a easy trip with small kids.
 I'm sure they would enjoy seeing the seaplanes land and take off, if you've never seen them up close, it's interesting for adults as well.
 Go to PCD link in Inukshuk section and you'll see numerous campsites north of Eden Island. Most would be perfect for a basecamp. There close enough together you can paddle around a little and get the one that suits your needs.
Your going to see other paddlers, but there is enough bays and routes, that you'll still get a nice experience.
 Keep a clean camp, hang or hide your food. There a plenty of bear sign in the area. I saw one of the biggest black bears (cinnamon actually) I've ever seen on the road in. Looked like a small VW running across the road 8-)

Seymour wrote on Mar 30^th, 2010 at 2:54am:

Entry at BH and loop through Quetico Lake  - Cirrus and back to BH sounds good. What is the 21.6 km road like in a car? I take it the Park staff should have a status update coming soon? I have seen the picos on Quetico Lake, is there any other exciting historic items, etc and any good sites for base camping?

The road in is . . . drivable.  It starts nice and wide but in a few clicks you start to wonder if your still on a road and not a glorified deer path.  Parking lot is great though.  As far as "historical" stuff in that area, the portage from BH to Quetico has some artifacts from the 1920's (I assume) bootlegging and logging operations (old bridge, cars, can dumps, etc..)  Plenty of good base camp campsites as well; specifically the SW side of Eden Island and north of the island up by the picto's.  Cirrus has some decent sites both by the narrows and immediately in the bay after the portage into Cirrus from Quetico.

Mastertangler,

Well, I had a hunch that was what Old Salt was getting to when I made some general comments asking for feedback of historic items, etc. But as a newbie I think and might took it the wrong way. As my reaction was that this was not welcoming to me. Thanks for providing some clarity into the postings.

Seymour,
my wife and I spent a lot of time in that area with our very young kids
( youngest kid we took was 4 mo. old for 13 days ) when we were first introducing them to Quetico. We actually went the other way and headed west from the ranger station and just stayed on Beaverhouse. 1 portage in and 1 portage out. Keep it simple with young ones. There are some nice spots on the far west end of the lake that you can base camp at and there are a couple of sand beaches on that end of the lake as well. You can paddle down to the outlet of the Quetico river and explore that area. Fishing is very good on that end of the lake too. All 4 species. You are far enough away from the ranger station that the planes are not obnoxious and they don't come in every day. Not many people go to that end of the lake so it actually feels more remote that it really is. And if there is a problem, you are not that far from the ranger or your car.
Start them young and they will love it for life.  Good Luck.
Gene M

Thanks Phantomjug, Solotripper and Gene M for the great suggestions, thoughts and trip advice.

Another option that has worked well for us in the past is entering Pickeral at Stanton Bay. Paddle across Pickeral to Rawn, Art and Buckingham Lakes. Lots of space to explore and not very many people. Rawn is a great lake with 2 very nice and roomy camp sites (one on each island) that are great for toddlers who want to wander (supervised, of course).  

Thanks Park1. I will consult my map this evening to look at the option.

Seymour,
A followup on what Gene M said about campsites for western Beaverhouse.  Depending on your definition of western Beaverhouse, there are very few campsites.  I know of one good campsite, one ok campsite and one you can use in a pinch.  If you decide on western Beaverhouse, you really should know where those campsites are.  Middle Beaverhouse and eastern Beaverhouse has lots of campsites and nice sandy beaches.  Plus I don't recall any sand beaches in western Beaverhouse which are near a campsite.
Westwood

Park1,

Any suggestions on tactics crossing Pickerel to Rawn and campsites (islands) along the way. After consulting the map Stanton looks like a great entry point and your route through Rawn Narrows and on looks to be my fav thus far for bringing a lil' guy along!

Thanks

Be vary wary heading south from Stanton. Plan to island hop. If there's a breeze and you can see white on the horizon, take the long way hugging whatever side of Emerald works best that day. I'd avoid Lookout as a hop unless it was dead calm and drizzling. That area of Pickerel gets a long reach from most any wind direction. It's not unusual to have rather large swells coming from a totally different direction than the waves and it can get hairy really quickly. You're hauling precious cargo and it's a lot bigger than it looks on a map. BH, no name, Cirrus, Quetico - lot better places to hide. No portages for miles down Pickerel isn't worth the exposure IMO.

I haven't been down the S Bay road for years but BH is probably in better shape and puts you at a far more controllable entry.

DB,

This is good info, I've only been through Pickerel Narrows and haven't experienced the big lake. After hearing numerous comments, etc regarding BH, maybe that might be the one. Trip planning is sure fun and I want to make sure the route is the best for precious cargo -a baby. I might have to check in at Atikokan, as I'm not sure yet what might be the best option? Is it true there is sand beaches on Eden Island? Any notable campsites on BH on the east side and into Q Lake that are good?
Thks

Seymour,

There are several sand beaches in eastern Beaverhouse and Quetico Lakes.  There are also several campsites on eastern Beaverhouse and western Quetico Lake.

I agree with DB about crossing Pickeral Lake via Lookout Island.

Westwood

I'm not fond of sandy beaches but they are normally on eastern or southern shores in bays and the odd point. Maybe someone can correct me but I think   (You need to Login or Register is   (You need to Login or Register.

Todays POD is at The Pines on Pickerel a little south of   (You need to Login or Register. That all blew down a few years ago but that point remains a kick-ass sandy beach. There are two or three others nearby on both shores to the west before or near the second pinch.

FWIW - I'm offering short, easy-out options because I too think your nuts thinking trips should not be more aggressive than the weakest member or two of the group can handle on their own if anything unexpected happens. Can't swim? No go. Period. But that's just me. Walking and talking is a whole nother issue.

The campground at Dawson Trail has a rather nice sandy beach as well along with what I assume to be nice hiking trails. Some look interesting and there's the French Falls up the road a piece (east). I could amuse myself for a week between there and The Pines if I had a good reason to. If I were a Canadian I wouldn't' worry about being able to get a permit on short notice, especially for French.

There sure has been a lot of support for your idea of taking an 11-month old baby on a wilderness canoe trip, so (as another noob on these boards) I hope I don't get blackballed by being negative.

The issue of emergencies has already been brought up, so I won't go over that again. Instead I'll focus on "expecting the normal".

I know you and your partner are prepared to be watching your kid every single second you're out there too, so I also won't bring up obvious things like fire pits (and flying embers), poison ivy, poison berries, spiky logs, etc.

Babies need a lot of protection from the sun. An open canoe on a sunny day is an invitation to heatstroke. With so much radiation being reflected from the water, protecting your kid effectively is going to be nearly impossible. A sun hat and UV60 won't do it.

Babies need regular potty breaks. At 11 months, your child is probably not yet close to being toilet trained. Are you planning to carry disposable diapers (full ones) around for your entire trip? You weren't planning on rinsing cloth diapers out in the lake, were you? I know you weren't planning on just burying the disposables.

Babies also puke. If they puke at a campsite, are you prepared to completely clean everything up so it's clean for the next party?

Babies can't swim. Assuming you can find an effective baby pfd, how do you keep your 11-month old in one place while you are canoeing? You can't strap him down, since he would drown if the canoe overturned. If he starts to crawl around, there is a real possibility he will either fall overboard or slip and whack his head on a gunwale.

Which leads me to the next thing. Babies cry. They cry when they're hungry. They cry when they're uncomfortable. They cry when they're tired. They cry when they're sick. They cry when they're bored.

Assuming you can deal effectively with hunger and fatigue, and assuming illness (including things like simple gas pains) doesn't need to be re-addressed, how will you deal with the other two? Canoes and wilderness are pretty boring to infants, so you will need constantly to keep them occupied. And comfortable? Even if they're shaded from the sun, you still have the potential for wind and rain. And cold - better plan on bringing lots of blankets, just in case. And you'd better not accidentally splash your baby with an errant paddle either. They don't like cold+wet, especially not surprise cold+wet.

Perhaps you're not bothered by a little crying from your little bundle of joy. But sound travels very easily across lakes, and there's usually not much background noise in Quetico to mask things. What might seem to you to be "a little quiet whimpering" at the next campsite is "someone else's screaming brat" - the exact thing they came to Quetico to get away from.

So for the sake of your child and for the sake of the other campers, please put Quetico on hold for a few years.

Or, another option? Does your kid have grandparents? Most grandparents I know, including my wife & I would be 'tickled' to have some extra time with their grandkids. ;) Then, you can relax a bit and enjoy your trip, and go where you want to go.

Greetings, Joe.
Have you ever had kids????
You make it sound like it is more trouble than it is worth and a real problem for anyone within 10 miles. Get off it. I will take a baby or little kid over some of the slobs that come into the park all the time and make a racket and leave a mess expecting everyone else to pick up after them or just ignore them. Those people are the ones that should stay home not an 11 month old kid. I am sure that the parents are more than responsible, given the amount of effort that they have already put into research and thinking about bringing a little kid into the park.

It was one of the best things that I did for my kids, introducing them to canoeing at an early age, ( 4 months was my youngest ), they are all adults now, and love the wilderness. We never left any mess in a camp.
I carried a "diaper pack" for 2 weeks that weighed 65 lbs at the end of the trip, and I would do it again in a heart beat. Our kids never got sun burn once, there are plenty of good hats and other clothes to cover them up and protect them. At that age they still sleep a lot. Do you really think that a little kid can have that much trouble in a canoe? If so you haven't been around little kids much. IMHO they are easier to take care of in the woods than at home. So much more for them to be interested in that is good for them than the crap at home in the city.
Yes it is a lot of work taking a young child to Quetico, but when is it not a lot of work raising kids? The kid will be fine and no one will be "disturbed" by him.
Sorry for the rant, but where are we going to get paddlers from if we don't get our kids involved? At least then we can teach them good wilderness etiquette and hopefully they won't turn into canoe slobs that are a "real" problem.
GeneM

Hi Gene,

Don't want to beat this one to death, and I think we're on the same page regarding backcountry etiquette, canoe slobs, and introducing kids to the wilderness at an early age. I don't think we have any big disagreements on the demands and responsibilities of parenting either.

I have had kids (one), she's grown up now too (and loves the wilderness), and I still donate some of my time to youngsters, though not in a wilderness setting. So I'm not in any way a kid hater.

I wouldn't overestimate how much psychological benefit an 11-month will get from exposure to the beauty of Quetico though. My reading of the developmental psych literature is that their memories from that age are probably zero, but I do accept there will be dissenting opinions here.

I am glad you never had problems taking your infant canoeing. But "absence of evidence" is not the same as "evidence of absence", and I would rather be safe than sorry.

No, noise does not carry for 10 miles in Q. But a half-mile to a mile is probably realistic, and most campsites on Pickerel are within a mile of their nearest neighbour and on Nym within a half-mile.

Enough of my (second) rant. Peace?

Joe

 Having no kids, I don't have a "dog" in this discussion.
However, from my personal experience, its the adults that either cause the problems or allow them to occur :(

The two worse incidents that I ever experienced was a group of adults that were camped across Jean Lake from me. They were obviously imbibing heavily and long after dark were yelling and carrying on at the top of their lungs. The worst part was they had a "lady" with them who laughed like a African Hyena at every thing that was said.  I thought about paddling over, but knew it would be just a exercise in frustration on my part. I fell to sleep way after midnight and dreamed my revenge ;)
A .308 sniper round from 1/2 mile away finally silenced the Hyena ;D

The other incident involved some boy scouts and their leaders. They were coming across the portage from Conk into Jean lk. They could be heard way before I saw them. Yelling and talking at the top of their lungs. When I got to the Conk side, they had gear and canoes scattered all over the take-out. I dropped my gear in the woods and walked down to see what was going on?

When I mentioned to one of the leaders how LOUD they were and did he realize how sound carried, he told me that the wilderness was the place for boys to be boys, and that meant being loud and rude! I asked them how they were going to learn a respectful wilderness ethic, IF the leaders didn't teach it too them? He gave me a dirty look and I walked back and let them clear out.

 I give kudos to anyone who takes kids or newbies into a wilderness setting as long as they teach them the right way and clean up after themselves. Unfortunately age doesn't guarantee good behavior or self control.

Joe,
Peace.
Sorry for the over the top response. I get your concern about noise.
I like how solotripper put it. Usually the adults are the biggest part of the problem, no matter how young the kids are.
We started 'em young and that also meant teaching them to be quiet and respectful of others wilderness experiences. ( Even at an early age - a variation on the old "kids should be seen and not heard" routine )
Take care and may your next canoe trip be quiet and peaceful.
GeneM

Joe_Schmeaux wrote on Apr 13^th, 2010 at 4:58am:

Babies need a lot of protection from the sun. Babies need regular potty breaks. At 11 months, your child is probably not yet close to being toilet trained. Babies also puke. Babies can't swim.  You can't strap him down, since he would drown if the canoe overturned. Which leads me to the next thing. Babies cry. They cry when they're hungry. They cry when they're uncomfortable. They cry when they're tired. They cry when they're sick. They cry when they're bored.

Wow.  That's really insightful, Joe.  I bet the parents of an 11-month old had NO CLUE about any of this!  Thank goodness you came to the rescue and informed them of these facts.


Quote:

Canoes and wilderness are pretty boring to infants

Yeah, the sterile insides of a playpen with the same old boring toys will probably stimulate a baby a lot more than some crappy wilderness setting.


Quote:

Perhaps you're not bothered by a little crying from your little bundle of joy. But sound travels very easily across lakes, and there's usually not much background noise in Quetico to mask things. What might seem to you to be "a little quiet whimpering" at the next campsite is "someone else's screaming brat" - the exact thing they came to Quetico to get away from. So for the sake of your child and for the sake of the other campers, please put Quetico on hold for a few years.

So nice to see you assume the worst of the kid, the parents, and their parenting skills.  What this really comes down to, Joe, is that since you and your kid weren't up to this challenge when your kid was at this age, it's very intimidating to you to possibly interact with parents and child who are willing and able to handle the situation.

I know who I'd much rather run into in the wilderness between this family and you...and it ain't you, pal.

Thanks for one of the most self-centered, ignorant and small-minded posts I've ever seen.  >:(

Edit information:  I'd forgotten to include "self-centered" in the executive summary section of my post.  How thoughtless of me.  My apologies to anyone who read this post with that omission.

If we are not careful this could become the replay of the debate over pfds.  It think it would be helpful if we stayed with facts and opinions and didn't insult anyone because there is a difference of opinion.
Westwood

Okay, I'm fairly new around here - this site. I enjoy paddling is a canoe. I do not need to get into my background in the outdoors. I do not need to list my degrees, certifications, instructing and teaching experience, blah, blah..There is no need to prove this, etc and now I am a newer parent and will be enjoying paddling in a canoe with my son this spring and summer.

I look to this site b/c its really valuable (enough to donate? yeah, maybe someday for this cheap guy) and numerous folks here have provided insight and experience into Q to help my trip planning and again the list can go on.

Some folks here, no need to waste time, seem to waste others time and bring nothing of importance or relevant to this forum. I could now go into how my son will be banging his head against the gunwale and seat to get back to his 'wonderful' crib and how I will paddle in the full blown sun for hours on end as if there is no one that might be affected by the sun's rays. Which is why I purchased a space suit, equipped with its own bowel movement catcher  - come on! I am now waste your time too!?

I do appreciate all parents and paddlers that gave me feedback with my trip planning thus far.
As mentioned, safety, yes very important, proper planning can help mitigate. But not going at all b/c of a infant?!? We could go into the risks in car camping with infants to waste more time..But comments around NOT bringing infants, etc into Q should be seriously dealt with (?) and/or does this site actually condone these types of commentary?

I started this and got great info and its interesting to see the extreme or wide open opinions folks have out there. I guess I asked for it? There's facts and opinions and there's being other comments all together..
Any how,
Seymour  

Seymour

I wish U and yours all the best. Started my little one at two in the back country, and car camping before that. We are always outside. Never a sun burn. No DEET, just a bug shirt that was rolled that he grew into. The PFD is completely doable. The things that minime has seen and done in the BW, well most never get the pleasure. Never dumped the canoe or got busted up on a rail. But many trips were four over portages as he was always on the shoulders barring the canoe carry. You know those memories will be my fondest, and his too. The pictures and stories from school and our free time will attest to that. Maybe minime is the exception, MAYBE, 5 hours in a portable ice shack without moving at three..."we gotta catch the big one Daddy". Many a day duffin' on a pack or a camp pad. Man I wish I could have grown up takin' naps on the water in the backcountry.  One of the trick that we did learn was to snack especially before the portages...made for good spirits...and kept the little doggie and big doggie goin'. Minime and I have our little verse to past the time, "we work in all kinds of weather" and we are quieter and PU better than most-our wildlife sightings and "trash kiddy" shows it.  How many can say they caught their first BW laker at 8. Or did the frost in a day at 8. Now  I have carried a Sat phone on the remote loops and he was in the know. And he shined on his own @ nine during an evac. that we got in on last year. I say kudos to you, Seymour, just remember to expect the unexpected and enjoy the good times; the woods are a great classroom brimming with opportunity.

Everyone just chil-lax Seymour is smarter than most -questions are being asked ;)

M

Seymour wrote on Apr 14^th, 2010 at 2:48am:

Okay, I'm fairly new around here - this site. I enjoy paddling is a canoe. I do not need to get into my background in the outdoors. I do not need to list my degrees, certifications, instructing and teaching experience, blah, blah..There is no need to prove this, etc and now I am a newer parent and will be enjoying paddling in a canoe with my son this spring and summer. I look to this site b/c its really valuable (enough to donate? yeah, maybe someday for this cheap guy) and numerous folks here have provided insight and experience into Q to help my trip planning and again the list can go on. Some folks here, no need to waste time, seem to waste others time and bring nothing of importance or relevant to this forum. I could now go into how my son will be banging his head against the gunwale and seat to get back to his 'wonderful' crib and how I will paddle in the full blown sun for hours on end as if there is no one that might be affected by the sun's rays. Which is why I purchased a space suit, equipped with its own bowel movement catcher  - come on! I am now waste your time too!? I do appreciate all parents and paddlers that gave me feedback with my trip planning thus far. As mentioned, safety, yes very important, proper planning can help mitigate. But not going at all b/c of a infant?!? We could go into the risks in car camping with infants to waste more time..But comments around NOT bringing infants, etc into Q should be seriously dealt with (?) and/or does this site actually condone these types of commentary? I started this and got great info and its interesting to see the extreme or wide open opinions folks have out there. I guess I asked for it? There's facts and opinions and there's being other comments all together.. Any how, Seymour

Seymour,

I have no doubt that with your vast months of child-rearing experience, that you know all you need to know. One of the things you will find at QJ is that when you seek advice, you will get it, perhaps even advice/opinions you didn't ask for. I have no doubt that all of us here have good intentions. I think it is safe to say that many of us have expressed concern for the well-being of your infant son. That doesn't mean we think you are not a good parent, but we know that often times things don't work out as well as we dream they will. Since you feel no need to disclose much about yourself, an obvious assumption is that readers will make a wide range of assumptions about you. Nothing inherently good or bad about that, its just how most are wired. So, I hope things work out as well as you hope...and that you will cut us a little slack, and I hope we will cut you a little slack as well. It's your call... 8-)

Seymour wrote on Apr 14^th, 2010 at 2:48am:

... comments around NOT bringing infants, etc into Q should be seriously dealt with (?) and/or does this site actually condone these types of commentary?

Yes it does. This isn't the chamber of commerce. A wide range of advice (and opinions) is condoned, welcomed and explicitly encouraged. We were suckered with a subject entitled "canoeing with young children" and asked for route advice. Take what fits and leave what offends you for someone else to ponder. They might see it differently.

We all need to keep in mind that Google will be bringing parents of all backgrounds to this thread long after we've all forgotten it. I wonder if they will also notice threads where other people ask about taking their dog mention that they practice with them on local lakes. More unnecessary, value added, food for thought.

Valid points to heed, audience. ;)

db wrote on Apr 15^th, 2010 at 6:29am:

Seymour wrote on Apr 14th, 2010 at 2:48am: ... comments around NOT bringing infants, etc into Q should be seriously dealt with (?) and/or does this site actually condone these types of commentary? Yes it does. This isn't the chamber of commerce. A wide range of advice (and opinions) is condoned, welcomed and explicitly encouraged. We were suckered with a subject entitled "canoeing with young children" and asked for route advice. Take what fits and leave what offends you for someone else to ponder. They might see it differently. We all need to keep in mind that Google will be bringing parents of all backgrounds to this thread long after we've all forgotten it. I wonder if they will also notice threads where other people ask about taking their dog mention that they practice with them on local lakes. More unnecessary, value added, food for thought.

 I for one am glad that the QJ commentary's are NOT run thru a PC filter, at least the one's that fit in a site that is open to all age groups.

 Anyone who has been here awhile knows that whether asking for advice or giving "expert" opinion, your going to get opinions that may or may not be what you want too hear :-?

OS has it right, the vast majority of responses will be with good intentions, although many will not be sugar coated.

Were all adults here, remember to "criticize" the idea, not the person.
Certain subjects seem to bring out the most emotion. I know from our PFD debate, that when it comes to personal choices, most people want it to be theirs, not the authorities or other paddlers.

Kids and peoples dogs are at the top of the emotion list. Everyone who has kids or paddles with dogs thinks ( right or wrong) that THEIR kid/pet can do little or no wrong, and that they are the one's who should decide what constitutes acceptable behavior. But you need to consider others who may or may not see things the same way.

I wouldn't change that for anything! I'd rather suffer thru a episode of bad behavior by an occasional adult/kid/dog, than see the bonds that develop between parents/kids and pets be lost to future generations.

Part of getting "opinions" is the chance to hear the "other" side. Being a solo paddler and childless, MY idea of what may or may not be good behavior probably might be different than some parents.

It's ALL about being considerate of others. Simple idea , that unfortunately in our it's ALL about ME society is becoming a dying concept IMHO

Superior summation Sir ST.

All is well guys! I'm starting to figure things out.
Peace,
Seymour

One comment is "safety first"  Particularly keep in mind the time of year and water temperatures in case you ever dumped your canoe.

starwatcher

We did French to Art last year with Stanton Bay out.  I would not take kids much younger than 11...big lake.  It turned on us middle of the way through it.  

I would echo starwatcher about time of year.  We were up in July one time. My wife and my first trip after our oldest was born.  We felt we needed alone mom and dad time without an infant and did a 4 day trip while the baby was at Grandma's.  Unfortunately, being July the weather was over 90 degrees every day and one day we were on a lake with an infant in one group.  In 90+ heat the shade is not very cool.  The baby cried a lot of the day and I don't think the parents' skills would have helped at all.

I have taken my children from a young age (my wife made me wait until they could pee in the woods on their own).  They started at 5 & 6 y/o for their first trip and have gone every summer since.  The biggest thing with travelling with young ones and I would say the same for infants as well, is that when they are ready to be out of the canoe you have chosen the lake you are going to camp on.  No sense pushing them if they are not going to enjoy it.  The whole point of taking kids young is to let them experience a place we enjoy, learn some life lessons and have fun.  If it becomes work they will not enjoy it.

One other thing I have done with my kids when they were young is stay to small lakes where wind is not as big of an issue.  We had at least one day of storms the first 3 years my kids went up with my wife and me.  We can all plan the perfect trip and prepare our group as much as possible, but it is the unexpected things that are the challenges.

We are planning a June 2010 trip, looking for smallmouth and some walleyes.  We fished Rawn and Art in 2004, and had no major trouble getting across Pickerel despite some windy conditions.  We didn't do great on smallmouth and want to find a better trip. Now, with two of us 60+ and two young bucks, we are wondering if the Pickerel crossing is something we should try again.  We'd like to go Bisk, Bud, Fern, but want to be sure and get back to Stanton on time.  Any suggestions?