One of the post in todays Solo/Group poll started by db posed an interesting question.

 It was mentioned about fishing in front of a occupied campsite or trolling by, interrupting others solitude or shore fishing.

  I doubt any one here would deliberately anchor off of an occupied site ( at least not that they would admit too) :-[

But, I've inadvertently rounded a corner and right into a occupied campsite. This mostly has occurred when the weather is bad, and I'm riding the shoreline. I try to be a quite as possible on the water or in the canoe.

IF I hear noise up ahead, I'll try and move out from shore if possible, but if not, I cough or wave and let them know I'm coming by. I cough to give any Au naturel paddlers a chance to cover up or break it up ;)

Depending on the looks I get, I'll either nod and keep paddling, or stop and chat for a few minutes.  Most of the time being a solo paddler I've found others, especially in groups wanting to ask questions as they "think" I must know what they hell I'm doing ;D

I've only had one group give me the EVIL eye, most are very friendly, asking about fishing/where from/where you going/how long you in for?
Some have even invited me for dinner/coffee 8-)

 So what do you guys think?  Avoid others at ALL costs? Apologize profusely BEFORE you can gauge their mood? Or play it by ear, and respond accordingly?



 

Wouldn't bother me in the slightest...the water is open to everyone.  Wouldn't care if a party anchored off me, nor do I care if I fish or anchor in front of others.

If you want solitude...go alot farther N.

I like big days so I usually paddle late. I also like to see stuff so I'm usually slippin around the shore real quiet like unless I have an agenda. 1/2 the time they don't even notice when I go by. Once in a while one person in the group spots me and invariably they seem surprised. I just nod and ease on down the road.

I wouldn't purposely fish in front of somebody's campsite though. For their benefit as well as my own.

MT,  Be careful slipping by my site.  Considering how I like to bathe, you might see an early "moon" that evening...  :-?

I try to stay clear of occupied sites, but some sites are just too close to portages for any privacy.

Generally, I try to give anglers a wide berth. That said, in high winds I hug the shore and I wouldn't compromise the safety of my party for someone's possible walleye.

And, I also try to respect someone's privacy. If folks in a campsite wave, I wave back. If they ask how's the fishing, I try to answer. A few years ago I did ask campers as I passed how guys, one with a University of Michigan sweatshirt and one with an Ohio State sweatshirt, ended up at the same campsite.

Tim

A few years ago early in the morning I was hugging the shore in my Magic as a guy was exiting a tent.  He obviously did not see me as he prepared for his first task of the day.  We were fairly close when I said in a low voice as to not disturb  others still in the tent. good morning.  I never missed a stroke with the paddle but I am sure he missed the tree for a while.  He never said any thing to me although he did make some noise.  
MagicPaddler

I did fish in front of a campsite this past year.  It was located adjacent to the outflow from a waterfall and had a portage on the other side.  

I really wouldn't have a problem with someone anchoring a bit off shore in front of my (at least for the night) campsite, but I doubt I would do that to someone else.  If I knew it was a honey hole, I wouldn't want to divulge it, and if I didn't know, I probably wouldn't bother fishing it.

As to passing by camps, we won't go out of our way to avoid them.  We typically carry on conversations while paddling, so I doubt we surprise too many people.  Usually I just smile and wave mid-stroke, as my default is that other trippers don't want much of a conversation.  However, if they are friendly enough, I'll stop and chat a minute.  Seems like everyone wants to talk on the portage trails.  That could be because they're catching a breath before going back, while we politely wait for our turn.  

I would just continue my normal route.  I am not keen about fishing in front of someone's else's campsite because I figured it has already been fished.  If I am at my campsite, it doesn't bother me at all to have someone paddle by me.  If they are  close enough and want to talk, that is fine with me.  Besides I go in late May, enter from the north of Quetico and there simply aren't that many people that I have contact with.

Westwood

I'm not the type to anchor off someone else's campsite, but as far as traveling or trolling go, I try to avoid campsites that are occupied, but usually the folks want to talk. I don't mind if someone goes by my site while they are traveling or trolling, if they catch a fish there good for them (I haven't seen this happen yet however). When I see folks go by that are close I'll say hi and ask how they're trip is going et. If its really windy there isn't much you can do but hug the shoreline and inevitably you go by a campsite or two.

With all that said, with the time of year that I go (sept or late august) I don't usually see a whole bunch of people and usually they are while traveling or portaging.

In my default position I'm not the gregarious sort. I need to change my entire mindset before I go out and be sociable in everyday life so for vacation driving 12 hours and paying $15.00 a night compared to per trip to minimize accidental human interaction is worth it to me. If it makes sense I'll wait to portage until a group has finished or literally jog while returning for the next load if I hear one coming.

My first solo campsites were not campsites unless they were only one on the lake. That's not practical over all so these day I try to pick my poison. My most memorable encounters with people were:

-Two years of 15+ people trips. I'm still amazed we were able to spread out like we did.

-Waiting in line to get to a portage and getting passed by a group of scouts who it turns out were the other half of the group that caused the line to form to begin with.

-Deliberately paddling past a campsite to show it to a kid who's mother always talked about it.

-The woman who wanted to chat for 15 minutes as they fished. The fishing part was fine. I just didn't feel like yelling to have a conversation at the time. Next morning they were out there again and this time she was singing.

-The couple on a corner I needed to take. I was 50~100 yards out when I realized (heard) it was devotion time. I was committed by that time so I just pretended not to notice them and kept as much distance as reasonable.

-The guy who paddled his wife between me and the shore I was drifting into repeatedly while casting a jig. There was absolutely no reason for them to do that. I still take that one personally.

That's 30 year's worth so it's not a big deal. If you choose certain sites or paddle shorelines on occasion it happens but I doubt you could get me to stop and chat unless we planned to meet there or someone expressed a NEED for specific help.

Don't get me wrong, I've had some pleasurable portage encounters over the years too but I've had just as satisfying encounters in the checkout line at the store. Boredom and frustration brings out the best in people sometimes. I'm just so rarely bored up there.

Not too long ago I stopped to take a pic and decided to have lunch at a campsite. I didn't get out ... raining. As I rounded the point the occupants and I scared the crap out of each other. That was smile and wave worthy in my book. I've also camped near a portage and had people land and unload at MY site. When questioned, the portage turned out to be a couple hundred yards away. It seemed obvious to me but they were just kids having too much fun to notice much else.

If I see a guitar go by all bets are off.

I reflect the values and etiquette of the friend who introduced me to canoe country.  

I am a strong extrovert.  However, when in canoe country, I avoid people and hope they avoid me.  There is nothing anti-social or arrogant about this, but rather, I think it shows respect for other's privacy and experience.   I don't go up to canoe country to meet people.  

If there is a site occupied, I will travel as far away from that site as possible to look for a camp, assuming I have to camp on that lake.  I do this for the other campers as much as for myself, assuming they want a little solitude as well.

I also try to be quiet when I'm in a canoe, as I understand how far noise travels over water.   I actually have no problems with seeing a few other canoes if they're quiet and respectful.  

When I'm on a portage, my old extrovert self returns, and I'll happily engage in light banter with individuals I encounter there.  But if I meet large groups, I tend clam up and just try to get through pass.  Large groups, especially if they exceed the limit, bother me.  In fact, I'll ask the leader of those groups if they're aware they've exceeded the group size limit, just so they realize that other people notice this kind of behavior.  If they're using outfitter rentals, I'll ask them if their outfitter mentioned group size.  

I'm sad to see young kids up there who have never been taught any kind of backcountry canoeing etiquette.  I was on a site when two young boys anchored 10 yards off my site and started fishing.  I told the kids that one reason I go up to this country is to enjoy some solitude.  They were very nice, politely apologized, and moved on.  They just didn't know.  I think scout "leaders" do a huge disservice to their "troops" when they break the rules and never teach the kids about back-country etiquette.  

prouboy

db wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2010 at 7:13am:

If I see a guitar go by all bets are off.

I guess my group better not pass db.  Although we frequently bring a guitar, it comes out of it's case very little.  I think it's a big hassle, but the guy who carries it really loves to sit on a rock and play before it gets dark at least once or twice a trip.  No playing after dark or in the morning, and no loud jamming.  If we're in an area with lots of campsites, he'll judge how loud the other groups are before playing.  Overall, pretty darn considerate, but I hear you db.

Seems like a lot of folks on this site want and expect absolute solitude/silence.  Wally's suggestion to go further north rings true.  I guess that since my expectation is that we're not going to get that due to other groups within earshot, I'm ok with some noise.

DentonDoc wrote on Apr 21^st, 2010 at 11:24pm:

I did fish in front of a campsite this past year.  It was located adjacent to the outflow from a waterfall and had a portage on the other side.

****************************************************
dd,

I certainly remember those guys!  We owe them big time, putting us all on the one & only major walleye hole on that particular lake!

Strange, those were almost the only other folks we had seen in the park (WCP) up to that point.  When you get TRULY remote like up there or even in some of the more removed spots in Quetico, sometimes it's not such a bad thing to run into folks after 7-10 days of not seeing ANY.   Humans are social by nature; a week or so apart from other humans starts to give you a fresh perspective on that.

Having said that, however, if I happen upon a camped party - wherever I am - I am certainly looking for cues re: their interest in such socializing.  Mostly I steer clear of other folks, conditions permitting.  However, in the case of these particular campers - parked immediately opposite a unique & primetime spot of interest (ie. the picturesque waterfall... despite the poor fishing at that spot) - they surely would understand why traffic might appear.

My perspective during my first several days in any park is probably a bit different than it is after a week or so.  I'm very much looking for solitude and I'm all about respecting others who might be out there doing the same thing.

However, when I soften up after a week or so, sometimes a little socializing DOES payoff... like it did for us then!  What a walleye hole they put us on!  Wow!

Later,

Jimbo   8-)

Depends on how attractive a fishing spot it is.   :D
Never toss your lure in another angler's pool.

Once I paddled up to a couple swimming, nowhere near a site.  They were pleasant and enjoyed chatting.  Suddenly I realised they were skinny dipping & wanting to get out of the water.  

Anchor off a campsite?  Depends on how close and the topography.  If someone is camped on a barren rock in the middle of the lake, hard to not be in view of their site.  One certainly does not linger & gawk at an occupied site, not without chit-chat.  Smile, nod, keep moving.


Folks who get indignant at paddlers passing by shouldn't set up camp on main street.  That's the usual dirty-look situation I've seen.  People who think they're entitled to behave as though they're the only ones on the lake.  If you want solitude, go find the biggest unmaintained portage without any back-doors.  Anywhere within 1 day of travel from the car isn't solitude, it's nature, it's nice, it's not solitude.

db wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2010 at 7:13am:

If I see a guitar go by all bets are off.

I certainly don't want to hear it after the sun goes down.  Make all the noise you want to from sunup to sundown.  Indoor voices after that.  Wolf howlers too!  Most of them don't realise they're howling at the loons, not wolves.   :P

I have gone to the campsite where folks were literally singing Kumbayah.  I chimed in with, "Someone else is camping here, please shut up.  Someone else is camping here..."  That action belongs at summer camp not wilderness camping, imo.

I've been on trips where someone brought a guitar.  Fortunately he's respectful about it.  There are some places where it's acceptable.  There's enough outdoors for everyone to enjoy.  Kind of links back to the One Day From The Car expectations.

I have some tolerance for social group activities like singing.  It's the loud, drunken mob that I can't tolerate.  Fortunately, when and where we go canoeing we don't usually see many people.

starwatcher

Jimbo wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2010 at 4:29pm:

Strange, those were almost the only other folks we had seen in the park (WCP) up to that point.  When you get TRULY remote like up there or even in some of the more removed spots in Quetico, sometimes it's not such a bad thing to run into folks after 7-10 days of not seeing ANY.

Other than at the put-in/take-out lake, the only other paddlers I recall encountering were a couple of guys exiting the portage from Aegean Lake to South Aegean lake (I remember thinking, as I spotted them from a distance, that it could be part of Kingfisher's crew ... but wasn't) and the portage crew on Jake Lake (how could you NOT remember that cute young lady!  Yep, some mighty nice scenery!)  Yet, that is really not very many folks to encounter over a 14 day trip.

dd

Along these lines I have a question what people would think about this:

If you were camped in the BWCA and on a lake that has a tendency to get filled, would you be offended if a group paddling by stopped and asked if you were leaving that day?  And if you were, could they leave a pack there while you pack up?  I know someone who this happened to and was wondering what I would think.  And as long as they did not stay around and pester me to leave and I was leaving anyway, I would not mind their pack there.  Quetico this is not a problem, but in the BW side where you need to stay at designated sites I could see the issue if it were a more popular loop or area.

Nay way Jose'. Who knows what unintended consequences may result. Glad to tell you around what time we will be pullin out but that would be about it.........And that is from someone who enjoys helping other people out.

db wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2010 at 7:13am:

If I see a guitar go by all bets are off.

db,

Hmmm... so, pray tell, what are your feelings re: bagpipes???

Jimbo   8-)

Bagpipes, too heavy to carry! What do bagpipes weigh? I haven't a clue.

Tim

Ancient_Angler wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2010 at 10:49pm:

Bagpipes, too heavy to carry! What do bagpipes weigh? I haven't a clue. Tim

Ah, but there is no substitute for the pipes when you are in bear territory (and they're pretty good repelling skeeters, too)!  Your cone of sonic protection from such critters is small price to pay at twice the weight!  

The pipes are even better re: repelling people!  Talk about solitude?!   Play the pipes a couple evenings in a row & there won't be anybody around for two, maybe three lakes... guaranteed!

And, if you can't purchase pipes, just stop by your local hog farm on your way up north & snatch up a porker.  Pig strangling has about the same effect out in the wild.  Just try it sometime.  It's a surefire remedy to ensure peace & solitude at your next campsite.

Jimbo   8-)

P.S.  This has been a joint message from the National Council of Pork Producers & McFarland's Kith & Kin Kilt Korner (market leaders in sonic pest control).

Kleiser wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2010 at 9:26pm:

...a group paddling by stopped and asked if you were leaving that day?  And if you were, could they leave a pack there while you pack up?

I wouldn't mind telling them when I'd probably be pulling out but no on the pack. I might get confused and take it with me accidently on purpose. I'd tell the next group that asked the same thing unless I liked you better. No saves.

I wouldn't blame anyone for thinking that a single pack was forgotten, grab it and take it to the portage I headed for. I've done that. "Hey, did you forget something?" I'd probably leave it at the portage if anyone ever said no. I figure they already had the opportunity if it wasn't theirs.

So, Jimbo...I assume you play the pig the same way the bagpipes are played. Tuck it under your arm and squeeze. I can imagine some secondary effects to the squeal.

Tim

Ancient_Angler
I was wondering the same thing and where do you blow in to one of them. Jim needs to explain how this is done.

Magicpaddler

Magic...

Our man Jimbo has some serious explaining to do. And I'm getting ready to finalize my check list for this spring. If I'm going to coach my rookie companion, I need details! I'm willing to learn, but I've never done this.

Tim

Quote:

It was mentioned about fishing in front of a occupied campsite or trolling by, interrupting others solitude or shore fishing.

Depends on whether you ar stationary or trolling.  No problem passing by, even slowly, passing by people is a normal experience.  Staying put (depending on how close) is rude.

Ancient_Angler wrote on Apr 24^th, 2010 at 4:27pm:

Magic... Our man Jimbo has some serious explaining to do. And I'm getting ready to finalize my check list for this spring. If I'm going to coach my rookie companion, I need details! I'm willing to learn, but I've never done this. Tim

Kiss a frog and you get a prince.

Strangle a pig and you get solitude, a pest-free environment, & breakfast.

Take your pick.

Jimbo   8-)

I guess came late to this one.   :-[

AH     NO :-* :'(

Don't even think about fishing in front of my campsite!
On my first trip to the BWCA I was taught to avoid occupied campsites, which includes campsites which you are not sure are occupied or not.  If you are paddling down the shoreline and you see on your map that a campsite is coming up, you paddle further out into the lake.  The idea is that people have come a long ways to have a "wilderness" experience and we should allow them to have that, or at least the illusion of wilderness, and not interrupt it with our presence.  If there are others around, don't be loud, be quiet.

Many times I have had fishermen anchor directly in front of my campsite less than 30 feet from shore.  A couple of times there were only two campsites on very large lakes and the people at the other campsite paddled all the way across the lake to anchor in front of my campsite.  No other place on the entire huge lake was good enough for them to fish at. And, these people never catch any fish in front of my campsite, so it's not like it's a hot spot.  This makes me furious. If you fish in front of my campsite, I will immediately get in my canoe and paddle out to you and ask you how many fish you are catching, I will tell you that I have fished and fished right where you are fishing and I didn't catch a thing.  I will harass you until you leave.

Do not bring a guitar because the sound travels across the water and you are forcing everybody camping on the same lake with you to listen to your music.  As with fishing by my campsite, I would yell loudly across the lake to request all my favorite songs and boo the songs you pick and generally harass you.

Anybody that so wishes may fish in front of our campsite without suffering harassment or ridicule.

Of course, you'll likely have to travel a few hundred miles further north than you were planning to and THEN you will have to find us.  By the way, only 1-2 guys have been through the section where we're headed in the past 75-100 years but maybe you'll get lucky.  Chances are there will be a pink flag or flamingo marker of some sort out front... that should help distinguish us from all those other campers in this remote area of WCP.  

Should you manage ALL of that, feel free to paddle right up to the front of our campsite!  Fish all you want!  We'll even bring out a sample of whatever we're drinking.

*************************************
Solitude ranks high among the factors that influence where my paddling party trips.  I, for one, find myself tripping more & more off the beaten path each year.  Even those years when we take a fairly large contingent with us (5+ paddlers) we will split up on separate permits to minimize congestion & disturbing wildlife-spotting opportunities.  Last year I think we saw two other small canoeing parties in two weeks.

I understand the irritation that comes with paddlers right on top of you when you camp in the more-travelled parks.  I have definitely felt that.  I guess I came to the conclusion that my expectation in a well-travelled park was simply too high.  Rather, I decided to paddle where rules of etiquette aren't really necessary, mainly due to the fact there ain't anybody else around.

Such indulgence seems harder & harder to accommodate these days but it is still do-able.  When my sons reach my age, I'm not so sure....

Jimbo   8-)

Jimbo wrote on Jun 2^nd, 2010 at 2:31pm:

Of course, you'll likely have to travel a few hundred miles further north than you were planning to and THEN you will have to find us.  By the way, only 1-2 guys have been through the section where we're headed in the past 75-100 years but maybe you'll get lucky.   ************************************* Solitude ranks high among the factors that influence where my paddling party trips.  I, for one, find myself tripping more & more off the beaten path each year. Jimbo   8-)

I want to go on an adventure......... :'(