Hey.

I have a buddy that wants to take an Old Town Discover 158 that he recently purchased.

The canoe is in REALLY rough shape, and our trip will be a basecamp type trip on Basswood....BIG WATER.

My concerns center around the sea worthiness of this particular canoe and the idea of using a 15.8 ft canoe on basswood.

WHAT do you guys think.

BTW.......here is a Link to a video of the canoe and my concerns.

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Thanks.

Geo

my group has taken 14 foot keelless river canoes through nym and batch in some pretty terrible storm conditions and havent had an issue with the size. if the paddlers are competent that shouldnt be an issue.

id worry more about the structural integrity of that canoe. i dont like the looks of that big dent right in the middle. chances are if you were careful you could manage a full trip if you brought a role of duct tape as insurance. the worry-some issues id have would be tripping on a portage and how that dent/crack would hold up from the shock of an accidental drop and the inevitable big wave that drops you down on a big rock.

we are always quite careful with the getting in/out part and try not to run up on shore if we dont have to. its always worth getting your shoes wet.

to sum it up, theres plenty of things to worry about up there, and since you even mentioned the canoe, it shows you are worried. id say leave that one behind for this trip and see how it performs around your house.

Geo,

I would not use that canoe. I would either borrow or rent something more seaworthy. Since your only portage is at PP, you could rent an aluminum canoe fairly cheap.

Heck yeah I'd take it....if it was my only boat...then I'm gone with it...just a bit of duct tape for the trip you described.  But OS is right....just rent an aluminum.

Geo: In the vidio clip  I see no damage , so based on what I see, I would take the canoe to Basswood...if I wanted to.  There are other options though, such as renting or borrowing a canoe for the Basswood trip. My preference for a Basswood base camp would a motor canoe, or better yet a boat with a 25 hp motor  :), course if you can't get a motor permit, then guess paddeling is the routine. What type of watercraft are the rest of your crew taking and how many of each ? Depending on what side of the border you plan to fish, a 19, square stern with motor and optional rowing rig(s) might enhance the whoppertunities  ;D
gosh, if I knew you better, i'd offer you the use of one of my rigs.... 8-)

Geo,

I'm with OS on this. That canoe is a no go in my book. That "soft" spot is just asking for a rock to push through and make it a "hole" spot.

Well, if it needs fixing - just fix it and take it. Seems like a no-brainer to me. Even putting a pack on the soft spot would improve the integrity in that area.

db wrote on May 17^th, 2010 at 7:35am:

Well, if it needs fixing - just fix it and take it. Seems like a no-brainer to me. Even putting a pack on the soft spot would improve the integrity in that area.

I'm with db.  Sooner or later the canoe needs to be fixed anyway.  For what you'd spend to rent an aluminum canoe, this canoe could be fixed.

And if the guy insists on taking it as-is?  I think it's very unlikely you would have any problem a little duct tape won't fix.  

So far as the seaworthiness of a 15-footer in general on big water, it's got a lot more to do with design (how well does it deflect/ride over waves) than with the hull condition I'm seeing.

If it were me personally riding in this canoe, I'd want to invest in the fix, just for peace of mind.

If it was my canoe and I didn't want to rent a lighter boat, sure I'd take it for a trip with minimal portaging.

I wouldn't worry at all about dents or soft spots ( I didn't see anything in that video that would make me think twice about it) - the Disco is pretty near indestructible.  Its polyethelene - about the toughest material for a canoe - its obviously been dragged over a bunch of rocks which scratched up the bottom, but that doesn't hurt the structural integrity any.  whitewater kayaks are made of the same kind of stuff because it is so tough (and cheaper to make boats out of) and they can just bounce over the rocks.

Outfitter I worked for has a fleet of Disco 169s - they get the snot beat out of them and are still being used after many years - that's used on river trips with lots of rocky landings where fully loaded boats get dragged up on shore, and lots of gravel bars that clients weren't smart enough to avoid - that plastic slides over rocks pretty easily.  They were a decent boat to paddle (I've probably done 300 miles or more in Discos maybe 500?), but a killer to load on the trailers, especially the 15th boat up on the fourth/top rack - only thing I really disliked, other than the weight, is that molded plastic seat.

As far as seaworthy, they go thru class I to II fully loaded - 2 to 3 foot wave trains no problem if the paddlers are decent.  Shouldn't be any issues with basswood - it'll take any conditions you can handle in any 18' kevlar tripper, and probaly do it better since the bow isn;t as sharp and there is a bit of rocker at the ends.  We used 15' Grummans for tirpping for years, and we never had any issues with them being too short, or too slow - its more the paddlers than the boat.

The downside to taking that boat is its not gonna keep up too well with 18' kevlar tripping boats, and its gonna weigh 80 lbls or so, and be a killer on any portage - if your group doesn't mind that, then the boat shouldn't be any problem.

you can check on P-net for boat reviews if you want to bother looking them up.


edit: if you do ever need to make field repairs, you can try epoxy, but it likely won'n t stick too well.  Better to do some plastic welding - using a candle or lighter , melt some plastic, something like an old coffee can lid or plastic container, and let it drip into the cut, and smoothe it out - more like soldering than welding.

I wouldn't take a canoe with visible cracks out on any lake.

If the canoe is worth fixing, fix it. (Not sure why anyone would buy a canoe in that shape without a restoration plan). Traditional epoxies (eg West System) do not bond well to polyethylene, but there are newer epoxies designed specifically for this application. Fibreglass + epoxy patching is pretty straightforward, though epoxy usually clouds with exposure to UV rays, and you may need a coat or two of spar varnish or paint on top.

Two guys in a 16' canoe on a big lake will be completely safe under some circumstances, unsafe in others. Find out the maximum weight capacity of the 158, and stay with those limits. Common sense will tell you what kind of waves you should paddle in, and what kind you should not.

Plastic boats can be welded with a plastic welder. Use them all the time to make repairs on whitewater kayaks and have seen it done on canoes. Find a paddle store that sells whitewater boats and have them fix it and it will be fine.

NO !!!!
The fack  that Im asking me that question would be enough for me !!!

NOOOOOO

Debbie wrote on May 19^th, 2010 at 7:08pm:

NO !!!! The fack  that Im asking me that question would be enough for me !!! NOOOOOO

:-?