I'm planning a solo trip and being cash poor, I'm thinking of using a buddy's winonah adirondack canoe. The plan is to paddle backwords sitting in the bow seat facing the stern with all the gear in front of me. The rought I'm planning does not include any big water. Any one tried this, and how did it work?

Just comparing specs it's shorter and wider than the tandem I normally solo. Last trip, I borrowed KF's Prism. I didn't like it all that much but it really shined in the wind. Times where I'd might hold up with a tandem and two paddlers, the thing plowed thorough no problem. It was an enlightening moment for me yet my tandem has been paddled backwards for a whole lotta miles. Mine is quite a bit narrower though and you didn't give any clue as to your experience. Everything works with the right whatever.... Never had a problem....

Thanks for the input. My canoe (a sauris river wilderness 18) would not work at all. It has a sliding bow seat, and there is a cross bracket right behind the seat. Even if I did use it, it is so long and has so much freeboard that even light winds would blow me around. I looked at renting a prism, but I've never rented a canoe before and the $150 + price tag would almost triple the cost ot the 5 day trip. Any cheaper ideas out there?

Thanks

One thought is for traveling loaded you shouldn't have to paddle the canoe backwards from the front seat. I've always been able to paddle my short tandem from the stern when loaded and only paddled it backwards sometimes when empty. Just put your packs and such up front to hold the canoe down. You have a ton more power and control from the back seat in MHO. I sold an Aderondak to a guy not having a chance to paddle it or anything. I think it would be a good boat. But like db when I saw the specs, I was surprized at how wide it is. If it is possible borrow the boat for a day and put about the amount of wieght you'll be carrying in the front and try it out. The only thing about soloing and especially from the stern is without a bow man you don't get to see those hidden rocks and react. So you might bump a few... I never flipped and it was rarely a problem for me. Good luck...

I've bow-backwards paddled several boats like this without problems.

I agree with ben. The last solo I did I just put my gear as far forward as I could and paddled it normal. The only time I had any problems was on the way out I had to cross Snowbank with a hard cross wind so I kneeled on the floor slightly ahead of the rear seat. Other than that I rode nice. I paddle a Penoscott 17.

nctry_Ben wrote on Jul 6^th, 2010 at 12:03pm:

You have a ton more power and control from the back seat in MHO.

No offence, not true.

Power comes from technique & strength.  More technique than strength, but of course a stronger paddler of equal skill to a weaker paddler is going to do better in a headwind.  Stacked hands, short strokes, cadence.  Bentshaft paddles are basically a correction to poor technique.

Control comes from being near the center of the canoe.  Where you can reach for draw/pry to correct.  Check out solo freestyle action on youtube.  That's all about control.  They sit in the middle.

Folks over at   (You need to Login or Register would be able to give you some solid info & tips for this boat.  Folks who know more than I.

I paddle a Wenonah Prospector 15' both tandem & solo.  There's one mod on the boat that helps both me soloing and my bowmen when we tandem.  The bow seat was moved towards center about 12".  More legroom for my bowman du jour.  Me closer to midpoint when soloing.

I'm referring to paddling the canoe backwards vs from the stern. I find reaching out so much farther in a wider canoe from the reversed bow seat vs paddling closer to your body in the stern I have a lot better control, power, and able to paddle a lot farther without tiring. I agree, a solo canoe would be more efficient and all, because your width of the canoe is made for that kind of paddling. I don't think I'll ever go back to a tandem canoe for solo. Another factor in my thinking the tandem he's considering is okay besides the money factor is I found getting used to the solo took a little getting used to. I'd want to paddle one a bit before taking it on a trip vs getting in and paddling one loaded on possibly a windy day having not paddled one before. You'd enjoy the trip a lot better. If it was so much better to paddle canoes backwards we'd all be doing it.

The way I understand it, the closer you get to the stems the easier it is to steer. You can help overcome this by using a longer paddle to extend your reach.

If bentshafts are for correcting poor technique, then why do all of the racers use them?

I guess you could try it both ways... But I have 32yrs paddling my rather wide tandem solo and I hate paddling it from the front seat backwards very far. I do it a lot as I live on a lake and paddle it a lot to go across to visit my dad vs driving a couple miles. I paddle it backwards since I put on so much wieght and put a fat guy in the back of a canoe alone... Just putting someone in the bow and not paddling, I can way out perform me olone paddling backwards. Maybe I'm just wierd... I know another member of this forum paddles a Minn 2 and when he goes off fishing alone he puts a rock in the bow and away he goes. He might have tractor seats and a thwart... So it would be kind of awkward to sit backwards. I would be up to learn some techniques to improve my abilities if I'm totally out of whack here. I just experianced what they mean by sit and switch in my solo on my last trip. I did a good stretch in very good time. I normally can paddle one side for hours otherwise.

Thanks for all the input. I'm thinking that going back words will work best for me. I weigh about 190 and with the excessories probably over 200. I think my gear  will top out at about 100. I've done a lot af paddeling in my 18 ft canoe with my wife and/or daughter in the front. they are both more "boaters" then canoers and I have minamal difficulty controlling the canoe  from the stern with out their help paddeling. The few times I've been in it by myself if I was in the stern  the front would pop up and  I was tippy and had difficulty maintaining control even with a moderate wind. I'll test it out to see if the 100 pounds of gear will hold the front down enough for me to maintain controll and handle a wind.

Thanks again

My tandem has a sliding bow seat and a thwart behind it. I'll slide it back traveling down wind (ya like that happens much) but the thwart has never been an issue.

A bag of water in the bow is what I once used for trim when empty. Since I've gone from 130 to 160 a bigger bag was needed paddling empty. I've even had to resort to the bag o water less full when fully loaded under certain conditions.

It's hard to replace a bow paddler with dead weight while keeping a low profile. Rocker might matter some too.

Personally, I don't like paddling at the pivot point but putting weight at both ends isn't the best solution either. It's that centrifugal force and inertia thing. I just want to get from point a to b as quickly and easily as possible. I can't dance. It's just not in my DNA. I could still probably polka though if I had to.   ;D

[quote author=BrownTrout01 link=1278368436/0#8 date=1278467846]The way I understand it, the closer you get to the stems the easier it is to steer. You can help overcome this by using a longer paddle to extend your reach.[/qutoe]
Untrue.  The closer to midship you are, the easier it is to steer.  With some canoes this may actually mean every stroke needs some correction.


[quote]If bentshafts are for correcting poor technique, then why do all of the racers use them? [/qutoe]
Because they correct poor technique.  
There's also a mechanical advantage, but for your average paddler technique is the main issue.  If there's someone around on the flatwater racing circuit I'd be curious to hear from them.  According to the instructors I've talked to, the forward stroke is one of the toughest to master.

None of what I'm saying about position & technique is solely my opinion or the result of anecdotal evidence.  It comes from reading & talking with instructors and builders.  Take it for what it's worth.

Here's one resource off a quick google:
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Here's a picture of Becky Mason soloing a tandem.
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[quote]
BrownTrout01 wrote on Jul 7^th, 2010 at 1:57am:

The way I understand it, the closer you get to the stems the easier it is to steer. You can help overcome this by using a longer paddle to extend your reach.[/qutoe] Untrue.  The closer to midship you are, the easier it is to steer.  With some canoes this may actually mean every stroke needs some correction.

Here's a little different take on the subject. Joe has a lot too say about many things. He's a dealer for SR, so bear that in mind. He's opinionated for sure, but makes a lot of sense with his arguments, for or against.

He has a whole section devoted too his experience/opinions on most every subject dealing with canoes and tripping. If nothing else you'll get a different view on some things, can't hurt too here as many opinions while looking for what fits you.

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solotripper wrote on Jul 7^th, 2010 at 5:51pm:

Quote: Here's a little different take on the subject. Joe has a lot too say about many things. He's a dealer for SR, so bear that in mind. He's opinionated for sure, but makes a lot of sense with his arguments, for or against. He has a whole section devoted too his experience/opinions on most every subject dealing with canoes and tripping. If nothing else you'll get a different view on some things, can't hurt too here as many opinions while looking for what fits you.   (You need to Login or Register Interesting article. There are more strokes than the forward stroke & the J.  A lot more. The ship analogy fails miserably as a canoe is not a ship.  No room for the engines & screw.  The rudder is immediately behind the screws to direct thrust.  At the bow there are side thrusters for turning.  A ship relates to a canoe maybe in a tandem paddling situation. Get more flat surface beneath you?  Wrong again.  Depending on the canoe you may want to heel the canoe over and get lest surface beneath you, bring more of it out of the water.  Some canoes are designed for hit&switch, some are designed to be heeled. [quote]To sum it all up, I DO have customers who are very skilled paddlers and understand all aspects of canoes, who do paddle solo from the back seat .

None of them with actual credentials.  Simply spending a lot of time in a canoe doesn't make anyone any more an expert than eating a lot of food makes anyone a Cordon Bleu chef.

Sounds to me like Joe is a retailler, not an instructor.


I urge the original poster to pose the question over at   (You need to Login or Register & I suspect you'll get answers from instructors & designers.  Perhaps one who has direct experience with that canoe.

Preacher you asked to hear from a flatwater canoe racer so, from someone with limited race experience and plenty of bent shaft experience:

Bent shafts have nothing to do with correcting technique.  They just make proper technique more efficient, because the paddle blade is kept perpendicular to the water.  As a result, they reduce drag, increase speed and reduce fatigue.

Traditional paddles create a lift on the boat in entry , because the blade pushes down on the water and in recovery the blade forces the boat down because the blade is pulling up against the water.  Proper techinque will minimize the results, but regardless, the stroke is most efficient when it is perpendicular to the water and bent shafts allow the paddler to stay perpendicular for more of the stroke.

If that doesn't make sense, give it a try.  Get into a good strong cadence and you will probably notice when using the straight shaft that the canoe will seem to "Bob" up and down a bit or surge forward.  Then try a bent shaft and notice how the boat smooths out and seems to glide better and increase in speed.  That is why "racers" use them.

That is my experience with my bentshaft.  I use both an ottertail and a bentshaft situationally.

The bentshaft does help correct technique, maybe compensate for poor technique is a better way to say it.  Exactly by providing a perpendicular face through the power phase.  I also find that when my technique gets sloppy while using the bentshaft I notice the loss of power a whole lot more than with the ottertail.

The bobbing up & down of the boat with a straight paddle is an indicator of technique problems.  The blade goes in vertical and comes out near the hip.  If I'm bobbing then I'm either not getting a proper entry or my stroke is too long.  The latter is my usual folly.  There's something aestetically pleasing to me about a long stroke, but it's wrong.