As a figurative packhorse on and off the trail in my earlier outdoor years I am slowly coming to the conclusion that, even though I like "my stuff," I had better ease up a bit on the weight of my gear.

With that thought in mind I decided a down bag was required. ( That thought initially put there my Marlin and re-enforced by SD and KF) A Go-Light bag was soon in the mail. But wait, what was this.....SD was trumpeting his Big Agnes bag and when KF seconded it the Go-Light  was soon happily traveling back home.

I settled on the 30 degree Fish hawk and the insulated pad. This seems to be a perfect set-up for june -sept. The bag Itself has quite a few additional features which makes it a good value. The neat thing was how the pad slides into the rear of a specially designed slot underneath the bag. This keeps the bag continually centered over the pad. Like to twist and turn at night?........You won't be in a knot in the morning struggling to find the zipper.

That is especially important with a bag that seems to be comprised of mostly air. Man is it light. And coupled with a compression stuff sack I  save a lot of space.

I picked up the insulated pad mostly because I liked the thougt of some additional protection while I was folding it up. Spring a leak with this pad and you will for all intents and purposes be sleeping on the ground. The pad itself packs up to the size of a large grapefruit and I think is about a pound. That is huge weight and space savings over my luxury edition therm-a-rest.

Negatives? The 30 degree rating is a bit generous. I'm not sure I would be excited about sleeping in the low 40s with it. But I'm always prepared, however, with additional long underwear and fleece hat and fleece "wading socks" for nippy weather. The pad takes a bit of lung power to inflate. Yes it's a bit additional work compared to the therm but with the space and weight saving for a comparable good sleep it's no contest in my book. The pad doesn't break down as fast either. One trick I have found is to release the valve and go and have breakfast. She will be well on her way to seeing things your way.

I strongly suggest you house your bag while on the trail in a waterproof stuff sack. I use a waterproof compression sack which I snug only gently. This of course helps to insure your bag won't get soaked. If it does it's useless and could put you in trouble. So, make sure your tent zipper is shut while your out fishing.
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Good info as my bag of over thirty years is so thin I couldn't think of cleaning it or for that matter using it another year. I've heard of the Big Agnes too and have my sights on something for next year. I'm one that gets cold easy in my older years and would opt for a  fifteen or twenty degree bag since I like early and later trips besides my summer excursions. Wow though... Looks like a Big Agnus of that temp range is close to a $400 bill if not more. Is cleaning these bags a problem? I'd spend the money if I knew I'd be happy with it. I got a 0 degree bag from Gander Mtn, but it's so big and heavy. Luckily the weather was a lot warmer than usual for my May trip so I didn't have to bring it. Even with a compresion sack it's big. So I'd be interested in any input people have on  Mastertanglers post.

Yo Ben,
I think some of the Quiet Journey community has the Lost Ranger bag (15 degree). I didn't think the price was out of line for a down bag at $220 considering all the features. The Pad will run a bit as well.

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Wow, it looks like a great bag at a good price. Sounds like they've improved it some in the last year or so. Thanks...

I have the Lost Ranger bag and the Air Core insulated mattress but I have never slept in it. My wife uses it all summer long. With this system I/she would highly recommend an insulated mattress.
When we camp together she sleeps comfortably inside her Big Agnes setup while I use a 40 degree synthetic bag on top of an uninsulated Air Core and rarely get inside the bag. Go figure. I do spend most nights chasing my mattress around the tent, she never does.

Our 5 year old mattress has failed. It developed multiple seepage type leaks all on one end. We returned it to Big Agnes and are awaiting their evaluation and decision.

What kind of warranty is there?

nctry_Ben wrote on Aug 15^th, 2010 at 5:55pm:

What kind of warranty is there?

I don't know what the warranty is but when I reported the failure to Big Agnes they agreed to have a look at the mattress and then decide if it qualified for replacement.

Kingfisher wrote on Aug 15^th, 2010 at 2:05pm:

Our 5 year old mattress has failed. It developed multiple seepage type leaks all on one end. We returned it to Big Agnes and are awaiting their evaluation and decision.

Big Agnes replaced the mattress. A new one arrived today.

Glad to hear it when a manufacturer actually stands by the product and is willing to learn from failures rather than accusing the customer of maltreatment.

Down bags will save you a little weight and a lot of space compared to synthetics, but (as mt says) they're not very comfortable if they accidentally get wet (not just in the canoe, but from tent leaks in the rain as well). I think any down or synthetic sleeping bag will fit into a 60 cm (2 ft) ziplock bag, much better than a stuff sack for water protection. If you don't have a spare big ziplock, the free trash bags that Ontario Parks hands out are perfect as an *extra* sleeping bag wrapper (they won't be 100% watertight).

Well cared for, down bags should last nearly forever. I've had a "-2 to -4" deg C bag for 30 years or so, and with occasional hand-washings with down soap and uncompressed storage (ie not in the stuff sack), the temperature rating is probably still close to original (ie probably close to a new 30 F bag). For summer trips, I find it too hot when I go to sleep at night, but not so bad in the early morning when I don't want to get up.

A 30 deg F bag is probably good if you plan a lot of shoulder season camping, but I'd go with something lighter (and probably synthetic) if I were looking at just summer use. I wouldn't buy a 15 deg F bag unless I was planning a lot of winter camping. I have always found it easier to make up for a bag that's a bit too thin for the conditions by putting on socks / tights / fleece (or worst case, opening up the space blanket) than trying to fine-tune a down bag that's too thick for the conditions. You can also buy an extra "overbag" to boost the insulation of a 30 F bag for trips where you're planning to use your canoe as an icebreaker.

My ThermaRest is 30 years old too, and I have never had any problems. It still looks nearly new, and keeps me warm even on well-frozen ground. It is a "first-generation", non-deluxe, and weighs 1100 g (about 2.5 lb).

I don't have any experience with the brand names mentioned by others in this thread, but $220 for a good down bag seems quite inexpensive. FWIW, here are links to REI and MEC's sleeping bag / pad advice pages. They say mostly the same thing.

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Joe_Schmeaux wrote on Aug 19^th, 2010 at 6:04pm:

Down bags will save you a little weight and a lot of space compared to synthetics, but (as mt says) they're not very comfortable if they accidentally get wet (not just in the canoe, but from tent leaks in the rain as well). I think any down or synthetic sleeping bag will fit into a 60 cm (2 ft) ziplock bag, much better than a stuff sack for water protection. If you don't have a spare big ziplock, the free trash bags that Ontario Parks hands out are perfect as an *extra* sleeping bag wrapper (they won't be 100% watertight). Well cared for, down bags should last nearly forever. I've had a "-2 to -4" deg C bag for 30 years or so, and with occasional hand-washings with down soap and uncompressed storage (ie not in the stuff sack), the temperature rating is probably still close to original (ie probably close to a new 30 F bag). For summer trips, I find it too hot when I go to sleep at night, but not so bad in the early morning when I don't want to get up. A 30 deg F bag is probably good if you plan a lot of shoulder season camping, but I'd go with something lighter (and probably synthetic) if I were looking at just summer use. I wouldn't buy a 15 deg F bag unless I was planning a lot of winter camping. I have always found it easier to make up for a bag that's a bit too thin for the conditions by putting on socks / tights / fleece (or worst case, opening up the space blanket) than trying to fine-tune a down bag that's too thick for the conditions. You can also buy an extra "overbag" to boost the insulation of a 30 F bag for trips where you're planning to use your canoe as an icebreaker. My ThermaRest is 30 years old too, and I have never had any problems. It still looks nearly new, and keeps me warm even on well-frozen ground. It is a "first-generation", non-deluxe, and weighs 1100 g (about 2.5 lb). I don't have any experience with the brand names mentioned by others in this thread, but $220 for a good down bag seems quite inexpensive. FWIW, here are links to REI and MEC's sleeping bag / pad advice pages. They say mostly the same thing.   (You need to Login or Register   (You need to Login or Register

Great stuff.

I do take "Preacher" exception to the concept of something getting accidentally wet.  In 20 years of tripping I've never gotten anything wet that shouldn't/can't get wet.  It's all in how you pack.  If you don't waterproof your gear that shouldn't/can't get wet, you're asking for trouble.  It's no accident that my bed clothes & sleeping bag don't get wet, it's by design & intent & planning & preparation.

You can die of hypothermia in midsummer.
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"...the water was an uncommonly warm 21 C."
The weather was similarly warm, above 15C.

Kingfisher wrote on Aug 15^th, 2010 at 2:05pm:

Our 5 year old mattress has failed. It developed multiple seepage type leaks all on one end.

I have had some limited experience with using the pad now. The comments KF had made about failure were in the back of my mind as I went about utilizing arguably one of the most important pieces of camping equipment I own. I would be interested to learn at which end the failures developed.

While rolling this bag for storage air is trapped and released rather slowly through the valve as compared to a therm-a-rest, especially near the very end of the rolling/storage process. I noticed considerable pressure develop and if one wasn't a tad patient in allowing the air to escape I can envision some potential for "blow-out".

Just thinkin......what say you?

I used the BA Insulated Air Core on my recent trip.  It was awesome.  To the point where I want to convert to the BA System as soon as I have the cash.

Very warm.  On warm nights I used my sleeping bag unzipped as a blanket.

Very comfortable.  Great support when sleeping on my back.  My hips never touched cold ground when sleeping on my side.

I really like the logic behind the system.  Sleeping bags are useless for ground insulation since it's all compressed by my considerable weight.  I don't get any benefit from 1/3 of my sleeping bag, but I'm dealing with the weight & volume of that useless 1/3.  As a tosser&turner I do slide off my pad and my mummy-style bag gets twisted about.

I've been using a -10C down bag for years now (from MEC- <$150!) and it's never let me down.  I've used it year round- I just use it as a blanket in warmer weather, or use a silk liner as a sheet and forego the bag altogther.  It's packed watertight in a neat compression/rolltop bag, and it's never been wet- totally agree with earlier post re: good planning/packing.

Extremely light, extremely versatile- Best investment in gear I ever made!

(proper storage is key- keep it clean, dry, and loose when not in use, and it should last for decades!)

And the Big Agnes setup look tempting! I'm also considering switching to the Air Core mat as well- glad to hear that others are happy with it.  I'm willing to pack a bit more for comfort, but my luxury thermarest weighs a ton and takes up too much space- one area I'd like to downsize- might help get my partner and I down to 1 trip each across the portage!  (I can dream, can't I??)

waterlily

I am pretty much a hot sleeper. Do you think an insulated Big Agnes Air Core with a 40 degree BA Yampa (650 goose down) would be too warm for a hot sleeper on a Mid June to Early July Quetico trip?  Have been using a Kelty 40 degree synthetic with a 2 inch Thermarest for many years. The BA system sounds appealing.

Wally13
I wish I had a dollar for every time my wife has said, "whew, you are a hot box". When I paddle and portage more often than not you will find me wearing a visor so I don't overheat and self combust. So I am in sympatico with you on the overheating issue.

So take it from me and get the fish hawk 30 degree bag. I too almost got the 40 degree bag for the identical reason but purchased the fish hawk and am so glad I didn't opt for the 40 bag.

First off, the rating system is flawed........as in overly optimistic. There is no way I would want to be in my 30 degree bag in 30 degree weather. Trust me. I had it in the low 40's this fall and while I stayed warm because of fleece hat, fleece socks and silk underwear, I was on the verge.

I also used it in the "Q" during early July and it was perfect. As some who have experience here on QJ have already suggested be sure and wear some type of underclothing at night lest the oils/dirt/grime/mud/bug spray/blood/fish slime/etc. soil your inner sanctuary. ;D

Oh, one last bit of advice.........when you roll your mat be careful to allow time for the trapped air to escape the valve. There are murmuring of air leaks at the ends. My suspicion, just a hunch mind you, is that inordinate amounts of pressure are being exerted when rolling the mat.

Quote:

Oh, one last bit of advice.........when you roll your mat be careful to allow time for the trapped air to escape the valve. There are murmuring of air leaks at the ends. My suspicion, just a hunch mind you, is that inordinate amounts of pressure are being exerted when rolling the mat.

I think your probably right and you should use caution with any air filled type sleeping mat.

I don't know how other's go about it, but I use this method, and it seems to make the whole deflation/packing process work better.

I'm in the habit of packing all my sleep gear BEFORE I exit tent to make breakfast on travel days. Once I decide to roll out of bed, I open the air valve and allow my body weight to deflate the mattress as much as possible. Then I close valve and put bag/pillow in stuff sack. Then I start rolling the partially deflated air mattress leaving the valve closed until resistance is met. Then I open valve and finish rolling out air.

This makes for a quick deflate and keeps me from getting over zealous and possibly/probably putting to much air pressure on air valve seam end. I see the difference, but let others judge for themselves ;)

Wait a minute, how can you put too much pressure on an inflated mat when you are letting the air out of it. It's only your body weight that you are using to help force the air out, the same body weight that is fully on the mat while you sleep with no relief valve open.

Kingfisher wrote on Oct 22^nd, 2010 at 5:31am:

Wait a minute, how can you put too much pressure on an inflated mat when you are letting the air out of it. It's only your body weight that you are using to help force the air out, the same body weight that is fully on the mat while you sleep with no relief valve open.

The one thing that became apparent right away to me was how much less able the Big Agnes pad is able to allow air to escape via the valve versus my therm-a-rest. Roll a therm up and you hear a big "whoosh" every time another revolution in the roll process is achieved. Not so, IMO, with B.A.

My breakdown process is similar to ST and I suspect most other campers except that I make coffee first ;). I release the valve, give it 5 minutes or so, and then lay on it and try and get as much air out initially as practical before I start the rolling process. I believe, and it is only my opinion, that the potential for creating the micro leaks occurs when the pad is 3/4 of the way rolled. The circumference of what is already rolled is able to exert considerable pressure on the trapped air which is not able to escape as quickly as the pressure being applied IF it is done too quickly.  Something has to give. That trapped air in the latter 1/4 of a mat being rolled quickly is under more pressure than when it is used in its usual purpose.

At least that is my observation. Again I could be wrong and the whole problem could be rooted in the "welding" process.

In any event it makes sense to me to allow the trapped air to escape before forcing another revolution. I only worry about it the last 1/4 of the process and it may only add another minute or two.  

   

Whoops my bad...........ST, why not just leave the valve open during the entire process? I'm not getting that.  :-?

I know your mostly a sharp guy ;) ;D and if there's a better way I want to know.

mastertangler wrote on Oct 22^nd, 2010 at 12:05pm:

Whoops my bad...........ST, why not just leave the valve open during the entire process? I'm not getting that.  :-? I know your mostly a sharp guy ;) ;D and if there's a better way I want to know.

If you leave the valve open during your second cycle, your thermarest will actually suck in air for a couple of turns in your roll.

I actually roll twice ... open the valve, do a "loose roll," tighten the valve, (fold the thermarest in half length-wise ... I have a guide lite 1" pad), then make my second roll, opening the valve again about 3/4ths through and tightening again at the end.  (My mattress is about the size of a football when I'm finished.)

And another tip for those that are changing altitude between roll-ups ... if your are using a snug fitting "stuff sack" for your air mattress, make sure your valve is on the outside/exposed end of the bag.  Its amazing how much the residual air will expand as you gain 2-3000 feet.  I made the mistake of putting the valve on the "wrong" end once and was nearly unable to get the thermarest out of the stuff sack the next night.

dd

I'm kinda like dd above.  After my first roll to get most of the air out I'll do it again & put a rock or other weight on it while I do other things.

It seems that I've heard of more problems with BA air mattresses failing than any other piece of camping gear ever. I would think that when you're rolling one up and putting all your weight on it the PSI would go way way up as area decreased.

To me, you guys are over thinking the rolling bit. I have a nearly 30 yr old thermarest if it matters. Although, I did replace the metal valves with the new plastic when they were introduced cause the metal ones were a pain. Anyway, I just fold mine in half (making a ~square) and roll it up squeezing out air with both hands and knees before the next revolution. A minute seems far longer than it probably takes total time. I then unroll it for packing as it gives the pack some shape and provides padding between any poky things and my back. Any air left in it finds it's way to the voids anyway so even if there's some air left inside it's not noticeable.

As long as I'm thinking about it. FWIW - I have two 3/4" x 3/4 length thermarests. When I first started soloing, I'd bring them both thinking I'd be twice as comfy. What I found was twice the weight and effort to be AS comfy. Even with the one I let out some air once I get situated.


Quote:

As some who have experience here on QJ have already suggested be sure and wear some type of underclothing at night lest the oils/dirt/grime/mud/bug spray/blood/fish slime/etc. soil your inner sanctuary.

I just wear pretty much what I've been wearing all day every day being sure to rinse most the mud out of my pant legs when needed. If they don't dry before I hit the sac they will have by morning and I have yet to wash a sleeping bag and my last 7 trips were in August.

I'm with you DB on over thinking the rolling aspect as far as opening and closing of valves. That thought occurred to me very early on but the amount that seeps back in seems inconsequential.

I beg to differ, however, on allowing time for the air to escape from a BA pad (although a full minute is probably overstating things). The difference between how quickly air evacuates the therm is considerable compared to the BA. The end result is an extremely compressed package  with high PSI near the end of the rolling cycle with the BA pad. Something is causing the ends to blow out. My understanding is the leaks are occurring :question along the length of the pad which would be consistent with my hypothesis.


Again, I could be mistaken but the failure of any pad, BUT especially the BA system, could be a trip buster (at least for me..........I require a decent nights sleep to recoup). With that in mind an extra, shall we say, 30 seconds may prove exceedingly prudent.


You have me thinking I must be a rather dainty fellow with my silk underclothes when it is time to turn in.  ;D  

mastertangler wrote on Oct 24^th, 2010 at 12:13pm:

You have me thinking I must be a rather dainty fellow with my silk underclothes when it is time to turn in.  ;D

I've been wearing Terramar ThermaSilks to slide into my sleeping bag for more years than I want to count.  Adds a layer of warmth and keeps the bag from picking up body oils and smells.

dd

dd,
Explained my thinking better than I could. Being self inflating, once you open valve, the partially deflated bag does exactly what it's supposed to do.
When I roll my pad for second time, I roll and with both knees, kneel on it forcing as much air out as possible. Once I get the air in last 1/4 of mat, I open valve and continue until the pad is as compressed as I can get it.

DD's observation about the air being sucked back in on the second roll is why I do it that way. I found out that at least for me, I got a much tighter roll than if I opened valve in the beginning and rolled with just my hands.
Your results might be different than mine. Try it both ways and decide what you prefer.

Anyone have experience with Cabelas XPG inflatable sleeping pads?

I'd be interested in that too.
I've never been disappointed in anything I've gotten thru Cabelas, but after reading OS's post, I went to their website and compared the XPG brand, side by side with the Thermarest brand.

I don't know who makes them for Cabelas, but looking at things other than just the cheaper cost, it seems they have issues?

The reviews I read talked about de-lamination/hard inflation and slippery surface. One mentioned buying the Big Agnes system instead.
I hope someone here can rebut or confirm that.

They rate the Thermarest- Neo bag 5 stars, but the price is steep.

Don't get me wrong. I believe over thinking things is very good practice, up to a point. Been there and still do that. I took a major leap/risk on coffee this year with great results that I hope will be reproducible.

Commercial photography, architecture ... along with I'm sure many other professions have a saying about 90% of the job takes 10% of the time and the last 10% takes 90% of the time and/or budget. Over thinking, at some point lets you understand when it's time to cut your losses at good enough. After all, we're talking vacation time where efficiency, functionality and in this particular case, shortcuts to comfort, really matter to the end user.

I've not tried silk but other slippery things knotted me up or slid me to places where I was not comfortable. I find it much easier to 'wear the bag' as in let the bag turn with me TO the pad rather than me try to turn within the bag and stay on the pad. When trying to turn within the bag I'd always wake up cold, sore or both off the pad.

Too many pads.....

I must confess that in my search for decent sleep I have collected quite a number of pads including 3 thermarest, a BA insulated Air core and an Exped downmat 9. I like the standard thermarest for ease of use and warmth, but tending to sleep on my side, I wake with sore hips. I bought the Big Agnes to reduce weight and pack size - it is quite comfortable, but I find blowing it up to be a chore- it's size and weight and slightly more padding than the thermarest gave it favor- I did find that below 30 degrees it did not seem to insulate as well. Last year I bought a thermarest Trail Pro- another 1/2 inch of cushion over the standard and no penalty in weight or bulk- however despite it's extra thickness it allows more cold to come through than the standard.

This year a friend convinced me to try an Exped. It has an integrated pump (not as hassle free as the thermarest but much easier than the Big Agnes). It is more comfortable than any pad I've used, but considerably more bulky than the Big Agnes. It is amazingly warm. On my last outing I had quite a few nights in the twenties but used the bag only as a blanket- to get into it was to roast.

Solus;
"This year a friend convinced me to try an Exped. It has an integrated pump (not as hassle free as the thermarest but much easier than the Big Agnes). It is more comfortable than any pad I've used, but considerably more bulky than the Big Agnes. It is amazingly warm. On my last outing I had quite a few nights in the twenties but used the bag only as a blanket- to get into it was to roast. "

Could not agree more! The Exped 9 makes the optimistic BA temp  ratings closer to reality.  The combination of the Exped9 and a BA Lost Ranger is good to 20 degrees for me. With the Insulated Air Core BA pad I was chilly at 40.

butthead

Anyone that was/is interested in the Big Agnes Lost Ranger 15 down sleeping bag - it's on sale thru  11/29 for 149.99 during the REI Winter sale.  I've had my combo for about 3 years and it's great.  BA is about the roomiest mummy-type bag out there...great for "rollers".

btw....they have an Attic Sale on Dec. 4th...see your local store for the details.

portage dog

I saw that REI sale... I'm going on the 30th to the cities and REI, but I'm getting a GPS. I will look at the Lost Ranger while I'm there and hope for a sale again before spring.

butthead wrote on Oct 29^th, 2010 at 5:00pm:

Solus; "This year a friend convinced me to try an Exped. It has an integrated pump (not as hassle free as the thermarest but much easier than the Big Agnes). It is more comfortable than any pad I've used, but considerably more bulky than the Big Agnes. It is amazingly warm. On my last outing I had quite a few nights in the twenties but used the bag only as a blanket- to get into it was to roast. " Could not agree more! The Exped 9 makes the optimistic BA temp  ratings closer to reality.  The combination of the Exped9 and a BA Lost Ranger is good to 20 degrees for me. With the Insulated Air Core BA pad I was chilly at 40. butthead

BH? Same tent (volume of space to heat) and time of year (similar ground temps)?

Specs I found, Thermarest TrailPro @ 2" and ProLite @ 1.5" thick were the same r value 3.8. With the BA Insulated AirCore only slightly warmer r value of 4.1.
Exped DownMat r values are much warmer, 7cm thick (r 5.9) & 9cm thick (r 8).

But I think the old standard Thermarests are fool proof too.

I've heard of failures for Exped too. One guy I know is on his 3rd one. Another guy swears by his BA Insulated AirCore, but he had to rig a bag type pump. So where's the big weight savings then? More comfortable, maybe,,,pack space, yes. He did notice what he thought was a leak, but was really just an air temperature change. Same as airbags in a whitewater boat after hitting cold water and later re-inflating tight in the warm sunshine.

I picked up a 15 deg BA bag and I guess I'll need to do some pre-trip experiments. From what I've read online, sleeping bag temperature ratings are standard from brand to brand. The material against your skin can feel very different though.

wrote on Dec 1^st, 2010 at 5:32pm:

From what I've read online, sleeping bag temperature ratings are standard from brand to brand.

Disagree.  The quality of the mfg is a mitigating factor.  I once bought a Woods -15C bag that wasn't even close.  More like -5, and after 5 years is now +5.

"BH? Same tent (volume of space to heat) and time of year (similar ground temps)? " yes CCS Lean1+ used year round, BA mattress and Lost Ranger for 5 years, Exped last year.
BA Lost Ranger has been updated since I bought mine, bafles over the chest area now run the long way instead of accross the chest (allowed down to shift to the sides).
My Exped 9 Downmat has a built in pump.

butthead

Preacher wrote on Dec 1^st, 2010 at 6:59pm:

wrote on Dec 1st, 2010 at 5:32pm: From what I've read online, sleeping bag temperature ratings are standard from brand to brand. Disagree.  The quality of the mfg is a mitigating factor.  I once bought a Woods -15C bag that wasn't even close.  More like -5, and after 5 years is now +5.

Preacher, Google "EN 13537"

Thanks BH

Awesome, we should adopt their existing standards.  I'll be sure to ask when I'm next buying a bag, which is soon as I need one for next year.

I see the lost Ranger is on sale again at REI... At least the long one for $165.00. My concern is no insulation on the bottom. I've always used a 48" ThermaRest pad. Should I go full length to take care of cold from the ground. Early May trips I've been on have been miserable at night due to the cold in the ground... or so I think. I can get a good deal on the Thermarest Go Light. Just concered that it is enough.

Take a look at the Big Agnes website for bags on sale right now.  They have wide bags, i.e. pad is 25" wide.

"I see the lost Ranger is on sale again at REI... At least the long one for $165.00. My concern is no insulation on the bottom. I've always used a 48" ThermaRest pad. Should I go full length to take care of cold from the ground. Early May trips I've been on have been miserable at night due to the cold in the ground... or so I think. I can get a good deal on the Thermarest Go Light. Just concered that it is enough."

Ben, I'd say you are right, and do need a full length pad, both for comfort and padding under your heels.  I do most of my trips in early season as well, and it can snow or be frosty.  I normally bring a 3/4 length ultralight pad with my down bags, and put some additional padding under my heels - that's always been warm enough in my Marmot bags.

I've never bought into the no insulation on the bottom concept - I think there's a little logic and a lot of hype in those claims.  With a normal down bag, the bottom half curls up around your sides, leaving less airspace to be heated, and I doubt that the ground pressuer of a pound or two per square inch (or whatever it amounts to) is going to completely crush all the insulating airspace out of the down or whatever insulation - maybe if your back was as flat as plywood and shaped exactly like the bag, you might lose some insulating effect, but otherwise, I'd think it to be a minimal loss.  Most major manufactureres stick with the insulation on top and bottom for a reason.  It should be cheaper and lighter to make a bag with no insulation on the bottom though - there are several "cottage industry" makers of down quilts that might be a better option, not sure.  Maybe the allure of the BA bags is the BIGness ?  whatever.....

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New model sale, now all baffles run lengthwise.

Mad_Mat, My favorite thing about the BA bag style is the integrated pad sleeve. And my "Lost Ranger" old style has draft tubes on both sides that mate up to, slightly overlap the pad sleeve.

butthead

U know if those are continuous baffles with a down bag one could squeeze some of those feathers down into the foot box for those cooler nights with with a short mat.

Cold feet? Have Santa bring you some of these.

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I realize I am new here and in the company of giants but I do have a fair amount of experience with Big Agnes.  So FWIW and IMO here goes:  As I am approaching the half century mark comfort is more important than ever.  I use an insulated (that is important, some are not) Big Agnes pad.  BA bases bag ratings on the use of an insulated pad and I do agree that BAs' ratings are very optimistic.  Would love to see all manufacturers use the Euro system so you are comparing apples and apples.  I do the early morning routine of opening the valve while I am laying there. It is AMAZING what you then feel under you that you have been sleeping on all night.  I do leave the valve open as I roll it up.  I just purchased two BA Sand Mountain pads for my daughters (probably not their most exciting Christmas gift, my son told them they will thank me later) for an '11 Q trip and notice they don't roll as compact as my older burgandy pads which you can roll into a nice compact approx 5" x 8" roll.  I am also a fan of the sleeve on the back to prevent you from rolling off the pad although I have used the pads with my other bags.  Don't miss the fact that they are to be stored between excursions out of the carry bags and stretched out.  BTW it is a bit late for Christmas but Sierra Trading is having a heck of a sale on some of the combos right now.  For example:     (You need to Login or Register

They are a bit of a pain to blow up but as Bill Brysons companion said in the book Walk in the Woods, "Can you not take an extra minute out here in the woods?"

Don't know why the link did not work correctly.  The combo I linked had a coupon on mine that brought the price down to $117.25.

My wife and I have been using a pair of large BA Insulated Core pads for about 5 years.  No complaint in the comfort department.  There is no comparison to my old thermarest foam pads; these are head and shoulders beyond.  However, this past season they both started to leak, a slow leak to be sure, so that by morning they would have lost about a third of their air.  So after our last trip of the season I figured it was time to replace them and got a couple of Thermarest Neo Air pads, which, by the way are super amazing - lighter and smaller to pack and far easier to blow up.  But as an after thought I figured maybe I should try sending the BA pads back to the manufacturer on the off chance that they could either repair or replace them - though, either way, after 5 years of use I didnt have much hope.  So I mailed them off and heard nothing back and figured  that was the end of that.  A couple of weeks ago I got around to calling them and was very surprised to hear that they had my pads and, having tested them, found the leak to be a manufacturing defect and so they would replace them free of charge with two brand new ones.  I was mightily impressed.  Not many manufacturers would honor a guarentee after 5 years of pretty rugged use.  
As a side note - I now have two brand new pads that I dont need so if anyone is looking for a pair of BA Insulated Core pads at a good price, let me know.