I was reading on the Inukshuk forum (yes, i'm one of those now) about new Quetico restrictions and this question came up.  I decided to ask you guys here what you think... First, I must confess, back in 2003 I was in BWCA and we camped on a non-designated campsite.  This happened the first night out because we left in the morning from the outfitter (no-tow) and did a few portages into Basswood.  Being perfectly dumb and unaware, we didn't even think about finding a campsite till maybe 4-6 pm.  We were fishing while traveling and that ate up time.  Of course you're not suppose to do something like this but we figured there are plenty of campsites but this time they were all taken.  Being tired and worn we kept looking and paddling around the lake, everything was taken.  Finally we saw an island that had a nice enough shoreline to land the canoe and pulled up in... this was gonna be it for the night.  It was already getting dark.   There was evidence that people had camped here before because of the fire ring made of stone.   There was room for tents and there we stayed.   I felt really guilty the whole time, like for sure we are gonna get busted, but we were okay.

So what does one do when this happens?  It was bad planning on our part but now we know better.

Sometimes our group has had the same problem...no available campsite because all were taken.  I have only had this problem in the BWCA at very busy areas in mid-summer and August which seems to be the busiest season.
We have paddled hours and miles past where we had planned to stop, just looking for an available site.  We recently had to do this twice, going in and coming out, on the west end of Knife Lake.  There we "raced" a pair of Forest Service people to the second to last campsite, but lost  :-X  and finally ended up at the very last campsite of over a dozen possible.
Other places we've had the same problem were Basswood River, top and bottom areas, and LacLaCroix near the Nina Moose route in/out.  On this route Agnes Lake is also often filled up.
The best solution is to start out earlier in the day so you can stop earlier in the afternoon.  I see a lot of people settling on a new site as early as 3:00 in the afternoon.
I keep an eye out for the numbers of canoe parties both ahead of me and behind me during the day.  If it is looking very busy around me, I start looking for a site sooner rather than later during the day.  When passing, I often will ask someone coming from the area of our destination if they have seen any open campsites on the way.

wrote on Sep 6^th, 2010 at 2:59pm:

I was reading on the Inukshuk forum (yes, i'm one of those now) about new Quetico restrictions and this question came up.  I decided to ask you guys here what you think... First, I must confess, back in 2003 I was in BWCA and we camped on a non-designated campsite.  This happened the first night out because we left in the morning from the outfitter (no-tow) and did a few portages into Basswood.  Being perfectly dumb and unaware, we didn't even think about finding a campsite till maybe 4-6 pm.  We were fishing while traveling and that ate up time.  Of course you're not suppose to do something like this but we figured there are plenty of campsites but this time they were all taken.  Being tired and worn we kept looking and paddling around the lake, everything was taken.  Finally we saw an island that had a nice enough shoreline to land the canoe and pulled up in... this was gonna be it for the night.  It was already getting dark.   There was evidence that people had camped here before because of the fire ring made of stone.   There was room for tents and there we stayed.   I felt really guilty the whole time, like for sure we are gonna get busted, but we were okay. So what does one do when this happens?  It was bad planning on our part but now we know better.

If you were busted by the authorities I am sure they would let you go after a warning.  They don't want tired canoeists looking for camp sites in the dark.  That could be dangerous.  You might get an earful, but I doubt they would fine you.

wrote on Sep 6^th, 2010 at 2:59pm:

I felt really guilty the whole time, like for sure we are gonna get busted, but we were okay.

On a canoe trip?   :-?  Why go if your gonna load that in the canoe?  Leave the guilt at home.


wrote on Sep 6^th, 2010 at 2:59pm:

So what does one do when this happens?

This!

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One of my favorite db pics floating around here.

Ahhh, fond memories. That's what happens when you're young, dumb and invincible. We were fishing all day too. When it began to get dark, we began looking for a site as we fished until it started to rain and got black to the point we were paddling by flashlight.

Our hastily set up makeshift accommodations served us very well though. It looks miserable but I'll still say it was one of the most comfortable night's sleep I've ever had anywhere. Breakfast was a pain though. We never brought a stove back then. We were manly men but the only suitable place for a fire was on a small shoreline rock.

All we did there was sleep and eat so there was not much evidence of our passing. Even 'firerock' was left as we found it, which surprised the heck out of me.

We basically paddled the entire shoreline and were within a hundred yards of a rapids and knew the portage was on the other side so we were simply out of options. What we didn't know was there was a campsite on our side of the rapids. DOH!

I was just on that lake a few weeks ago. I've gone out of my way to paddle by in the past just for chuckles (it's pretty thick there) but I had forgotten all about it. Thanks for the blast from the past PJ.

I should add that the $9.99, (circa 1980) 6 x 9 K-Mart tarp in out of fashion international orange made our lives much more comfortable on a number of occasions for a lot of years. I don't know why we so considered it cheating back then. The one burner stove I bought a couple years later generated a lot of distain as well until a long day that ended in nasty wind and rain made it's space and weight appreciated.

If it comes down to camping on a non-designated site or risking injury/death traveling in the dark or high winds, I'd risk the fine and stay where I needed too.

db, set a good example. Leave little or no trace and don't let it bother you.

I wouldn't be building a big fire or partying on a non-designated site, but the rangers know it happens, and I imagine they deal with it on a case by case basis ;)

Quote:

Ahhh, fond memories. That's what happens when you're young, dumb and invincible. We were fishing all day too. When it began to get dark, we began looking for a site as we fished until it started to rain and got black to the point we were paddling by flashlight.

Reminds me of my first/last/only solo trip I ever did.  BWCA, 1991 I think.  It started raining too.  I pulled my canoe up onto the floating bog on Koma Lake, extracted a tarp, sleeping pad and sleeping bag, pushed the pack up to bow, laid the pad on the bottom of the canoe, crawled in the bag and pulled the tarp over me and the canoe.  I think my face is still a little swollen from the mosquito feast.

I'm all for safety but there is something about common sense too.  This year a scout group came paddling into a lake we were staying on at about 8:00 PM.  The lake only had 3 sites and all the sites were full on the lake and they looked beat.  They decided to set up camp on the portage on the other end of the lake.

Now that may all be well and good if they were tired and needed to be safe and was the only spot big enough for their large group.  The part that really irked me was that they decided to sleep in the next morning and when we tried to leave the lake at 7:30 they were all sleeping in their tents while their canoes were left in the way to try and get out at the portage.  I will say I was not too quiet as I had to get on shore and move their canoes so we could continue on our way.

I do know of another group that had set up camp on a non designated site because of all the other sites being full on a lake and they did get a hefty fine (I believe $125 about 3 years ago) from the ranger the next morning before they could leave the spot.

Only stories I have heard is rangers giving fines, not showing sympathy.

My last conversation with the rangers (see: What would you do? this section of posts) leads me to believe they are encouraged to keep to the "letter of the law" and a fine might follow an infraction of the rules, should you be discovered to have been thinking outside the box.  :-?
Sounds like the scout party who camped on the portage was both DESPERATE and DUMB (or at least not very thoughtful).  :o

My cousins and I bushwhacked a camp on Lake Agnes in the BW not too long ago. I have never been in during the busy season, so I didn't know what to expect. I had heard the Moose River North entry was popular, but I had no idea it was going to be THAT popular. It was like a Wal-Mart parking lot up there, tons of cars and tons of people. And here I was, leading my cousins from Tennessee, after promising them a legit wilderness experience...

All of the groups heading towards the exit told us that they had trouble finding sites. Nina Moose was full, Agnes was full, and we were told to expect the same all the way to / on LLC.

Long story short: it was getting late, it was windy, and my cousins were not going to make it any further. The sun was setting and we passed campsite after campsite with no vacancies. I spotted what looked like a campsite from the water, but turned out to be an old site (?) with a fire ring and a big clearing but no latrine. We camped way back in the trees, and pulled the canoes up far into the woods so we couldn't be seen from the lake. At sunrise the next morning, we headed out, and grabbed a designated site just as its occupants were leaving.

There were a few worried groups that passed us the next few afternoons / evenings, saying everything was full from LLC down. We offered to let one group camp with us, but they weren't interested. I bet a lot of people bushwhacked that weekend. The rangers stopped by an hour after we set up at the legit site. We didn't mention the bushwhack but they didn't look like they would have cared too much.

Despite the crowds, we still had a great time. But I didn't expect the bushwhack night. If it's your only option vs. paddling in the dark, and you get back from the water, LNT etc., I don't see the point of issuing a fine. Lower the number of permits first.

Akula,  What time of the year did you go?

wrote on Sep 11^th, 2010 at 4:46pm:

Akula,  What time of the year did you go?

This was about a month ago. Our entry was August 5th and our exit was August 9th.

It was my first time in the BW during summer season, and also my first time not solo. I don't plan on doing either again any time soon.



edit: just in case it sounds like I'm bitching, I'm not. We had a good time despite the unexpected crowds. I'll just be a little more careful with entry point and season selection for the next trip.

I remember even back in the late seventies and early eighties August was a terrible month to find decent campsites all the way to LLC. As I was coming out the Friday of Memorial weekend on Little Indian Souix it was the same way... Group after group of people coming in expecting to camp on the lakes closest in. I always plan to make it in quite a ways during those busiest times. You'd be surprized the people that don't go in any farther than those initial lakes... The BWCA is not a place to go in most cases to find the solitude you might expect in most places. But the early and late times of the year can be good. Seeing people doesn't bother me as much as what the impact we have on the land. I think the forest service does a pretty good job controlling that. I suppose they could reduce the number of permits they issue, but I think the outfitter business might suffer a bit from that... So I would hope they wouldn't come down to hard on people that "had to" bushwack a campsite like in your case. People like me probably screw up their permit numbers by staying out there a long time, and traveling distances where I'm still legal, but in areas where they don't plan on me being... if that makes any sence.

Am I correct in my assumption that in Quetico you can camp anywhere you want (or have to?)  On our recent trip into Q we got stuck one night on Rouge Lake, of all places.  I mean, talk about a back water, the Lake is little more than a pond between Jean and the marsh that leads into Sturgeon.  Not exactly the place where you'd expect to find people lining up for camp sites. It only had one site marked on my map and wouldn't you know it, when we got there (in itself an act of desperation) it was taken.  We found a rather stark slab of nearby rock and moss to pitch camp.  It was far from the nicest camp site we stayed at but I must say it was probably the most beautiful dawn I can remember with both the moon and sun in full view and the mist rising.

"People like me probably screw up their permit numbers by staying out there a long time, and traveling distances where I'm still legal, but in areas where they don't plan on me being... if that makes any sence."

I think it is those who do not travel much beyond the first lake or two which skew the permit numbers and crowd things up.  It also seems close in to the access points that it is busiest around the weekends when the most campers are coming and going on their trips.  
I agree that once you get a day or two into the BW you leave the crowds behind.

"Am I correct in my assumption that in Quetico you can camp anywhere you want (or have to?)"


that is correct - at least for the present, unless they "fix" something that isn't broken in the current planning phase for Q

Be aware that they do fine people for camping in non designated sites. They would rather you double up on a site, but if there is more than 9 people at the site they will fine you. No place in the rules does it say if you are camping at a site, nobody else can camp there. It only says you must camp at a designated site and more than 9 people cannot be there.
It would be best to ask people first to get how they will feel about it, but IMO, anybody who expects solitude should be going elsewhere, or go DEEP into BWCA to find it. I wouldn't want to camp a a site where I wasn't wanted, but you might be surprised, many people would welcome someone, for a night anyway.
If you object to camping where there is already somebody there, well keep in mind beggers can't be choosy, it is your mistake so live with it.

As a noob doing the big loop in quetico I had caught a 3 lb walleye that I had intended to shore lunch. A big family of Canadians paddled by and the Grandpa had a keen interest in the fish. Naturally I offered it to them and they gladly accepted. 3 hours later with a storm brewing I passed them and they insisted I share their site, which I did. They were a very nice family.

The moral of the story? If you intend to camp with others, bring some fish!

MT,

That just proves the old adage:
" What go's around, comes around"
I wouldn't intrude on a taken site, unless the alternative was to risky for my comfort level
I also wouldn't deny ANYONE shelter if they were in the same circumstances.
I would object IF they're were other sites available but mine was their choice and I beat them too it ;)

Like anything, it depends on the situation.  In the approximately 220 nights I've spent canoe camping in the BW and Quetico, I've shared a camp site with strangers exactly 4 times and brush crashed (camped where there was no campsite established) 1 time.  Only once was it not legal in the sense that more than 4 canoes/9 persons were in the same area at the same time.

In the karmic sense, I've offered to share a site 6 times, and only had 2 acceptances.  Wind, lack of available unoccupied nearby (within 2 miles) campsites, darkness, or threatening emergencies are all great reasons to share a site or camp in non-designated site.  If my criteria are met, I would gladly share a site in the BW because so often the sites are huge and we only have 1 or 2 tents, meaning another smallish group could easily fit.  Plus, it is closer to the BW's philosophy of concentrating disturbed areas to designated sites.

In the quet, it will take a little more for me to share a site since you can camp "anywhere".  I've pointed out campsites to travelers who were not as well prepared/familiar with the area, since maps rarely show all the established sites.  Finding your own site is part of the Quet's experience.  That being said, if you're freezing, wet, tired and can't go much further, not only will I roll out the welcome mat, I'll stoke up the fire and offer you some food.  The same has been done for me when I was in a tight spot.