Home News Local News .
Mishap strands vet in Yukon wilderness
StoryComments (2)Image
Share This
ShareSend this page to your friendsPrintCreate a hardcopy of this pageFont Size:Default font sizeLarger font size
. Stuart Nelson works at the campsite in the Canadian wilderness where he spent 15 days waiting for rescue after getting separated from his kayak. (Courtesy photo)
.Related StoriesRelated: Did you know?
Posted: Saturday, November 6, 2010 10:00 am | Updated: 12:32 am, Sat Nov 6, 2010.

By CAMERON RASMUSSON Staff writer | 2 comments

Editors note: This is the beginning of a two-part series on Stuart Nelsons survival in the Yukon. Look for the storys conclusion, along with Nelsons list of essential survival items, in tomorrows paper.

SANDPOINT Stuart Nelson always knew that he was never truly alone in the wilderness.

Despite the overpowering sense of isolation, the Sandpoint resident recognized that the fauna of the natural environments were never far away. But while stranded in the northwest Canadian wilderness this fall, Nelson encountered something else. And that something saved his life.

A veterinarian by trade, Nelson relies on the loneliness in the Canadian woodlands and waterways to clear away lifes stresses. A Christian by faith, he uses the quiet for spiritual refreshment. To date, Nelson has 18 extended solo river trips under his belt, but even that level of experience didnt prevent disaster from occurring. It did, however, yield the know-how to respond appropriately and survive more than two weeks alone in the wild.

Im very lucky to be alive, he said, and I hope that lessons learned from my experience might help out others in the future.

Nelson estimated to his family and colleagues before leaving on his mid-August trip that hed return by early September and promised to keep them updated via satellite phone. By Aug. 14, he was deep in Yukon Territory just east of Alaska kayaking down the areas many streams and rivers. By Aug. 21, Nelson paddled through the Yukon heartland by way of the Little Wind River.

Here, he faced a subtler threat than the regions grizzly bears and unfriendly geography. The river had eroded the bank, causing nearby spruce trees to tip into the water and comb along the surface. Known as sweepers, these obstacles are notorious for overturning fast-moving water craft. As Nelson rounded a bend in the river, he encountered a sweeper directly in his path.

There was no way I could avoid a collision, he said. Since I was going to hit it one way or another, I tried to determine the best spot to ram without causing serious damage.

The river had other ideas, wedging his inflatable kayak underneath the tree trunk and throwing Nelson into the water. After scrambling to shore, he approached his ensnared raft and attempted to free it.

At that point, I made two mistakes, he said. The first was that I let myself make a mistake in the first place. The second was that I got separated from my boat.

In Nelsons efforts to free the craft, it caught an undercurrent beneath the sweeper and shot underwater. It resurfaced on the other side of the fallen tree, popping from the water like a fish.

I didnt even try to chase after it, he said. It was moving way too quickly.

Nelson had stowed his food supplies, extra clothing, camping equipment and satellite phone among the boats cargo. A knife, some snare wire, a signal mirror, a can of highly-flammable Sterno, a space blanket, a tincture of iodine, three fishing lures and some fishing line were the only items he had on his body. His clothing included a warm shirt, a pair of water-resistant dry pants, good boots and his life jacket.

The most important thing you need to remember about survival gear is that its not survival gear if its not on your body, he said.

Nelson remained calm in the face of his circumstances. He first decided to follow the flow of the river in the chance that his raft had lodged on another obstruction. Several miles into the hike, he realized that the boat could be lost in any one of the areas many tributaries. His best option, he determined, was to find a comparatively hospitable site where the Little Wind met the Wind River. In that area, he had a chance of flagging down an aircraft or other boaters. Outside of that hope, his best bet was to remain stationary and wait for a search party.

By the time he reached the large gravel bar between the rivers, Nelson was already exhausted. He found a depression near the tree line substantial enough to offer shelter and cut up branches to fashion a windbreak. After starting a fire with the help of the Sterno, he hunkered down for a long wait.

In the next 14 days, Nelson developed a daily routine. He rose with the dawn to cut his firewood and gather around 200 rose hips, one of his primary sources of sustenance. As the morning progressed, he returned to the river to keep an eye out for boaters or airplanes. He spent his days fishing for grayling salmon in the river, his other common food source.

There wasnt really any easy way to cook them, he said. The only method was to put them on sticks and that didnt work well at all. So I just ate them raw.

After cleaning his catches, Nelson would bite out the eyes and gills. Then he ate them much like corn on the cob, consuming everything except for the tail and spine. He tossed out what little remained to avoid attracting grizzlies.

It was kind of a strange version of sushi, he said.

During the first few days, Nelson also took measures to communicate his situation. He spelled out help using large sticks and SOS with rocks in the gravel bar. He also made sure to smoke his campfires in hopes of attracting attention. At one point, he attempted to light a tree on fire, a task that proved much more difficult in execution.

A got a few branches to burn, but that fizzled out pretty quickly, he said. I couldnt get that tree to light for anything.

SANDPOINT His boat lost in the Yukon waterways, Stuart Nelson prepared to survive as long as possible in hopes of rescue.

The weather throughout Nelsons stand on the gravel bar was almost uniformly miserable. Gray, ominous clouds bubbled overhead during the daytime, often drizzling and sometimes pouring down sheets of rain.

Nights were worse. During the darkened hours, Nelsons chief danger hypothermia was at its most potent. It was critical to keep the fire lit at all times. His space blanket next to useless, Nelson constructed a gravel barrier to prevent immolation as he hugged his campfire for warmth.

On his first Saturday while stranded, Nelson heard an airplane. Running onto the gravel bar, he could see the little bush plane flying only about 40 feet overhead. But Nelson was out of the pilots line of sight. He rushed to an area within the pilots field of vision, waving his arms and yelling, but it was no use. The pilot flew on, completely unaware of his presence.

Many days later, he spotted another airplane. But that aircraft was far overhead, impossible to flag down and certainly not looking for him.

The harshness of Nelsons living conditions took its toll. Inadequate sleep and nourishment wore on his mental state and sheared weight from his body. He lost one of his precious fishing lures when his line snapped. The constant battle against the wet and cold resulted in an infected toenail that he treated daily with iodine while drying his socks.

One particularly nasty evening, a heavy rain tapered off just as darkness fell. Nelson had a numbingly cold, damp evening ahead of him. More than ever before, it was essential to keep the fire lit. At that point, another presence revealed itself.

It was like there was someone right beside me keeping me awake and saying, Come on, Stuart. The fires going out. You have to stoke the fire, Nelson said.

Nelson managed to keep his campfire going all night.

I dont know whether it was God or a guardian angel or what with me that night, he said. But I sure am thankful.

On Saturday, Sept. 4, Nelson was drying his socks by the fire. Looking up from his work, he spotted three canoes heading down the river. Jumping from his campsite, he stormed the gravel bar barefoot, wildly waving his arms.

I must have looked pretty crazy to them, he said. I was barefoot, had a full beard and was dressed in filthy clothes.

The canoes swung toward Nelson and six people emerged. A group of outdoor enthusiasts from Europe, the party consisted of five Swiss and one German. All of them spoke English some better than others and Nelson told them his story. They said they were canoeing to an area called Taco Bar, where they were meeting up with a pilot and that theyd be happy to give him food and relay his location to the authorities Nelsons satellite phone was lost when he became separated from his kayak.

For Nelson, it meant six more days on the gravel bar waiting for rescue. That evening, the group invited him to dinner at their nearby campsite.

We had noodles with some kind of meat, Nelson said. It was so good.

During the meal, the group started talking amongst themselves in German. After a brief conversation, they told Nelson it would be better for him to join them on the trip to Taco Bar.

The trip to Taco Bar took six days. Since Nelson had no gear or sleeping bags, he decided to sleep out by the campfire as he had for the past two weeks. That allowed him to keep the fire alive when his traveling companions awoke in the morning. He also dug latrines for the groups campsites.

On one memorable evening, we made bush pizzas with lots of cheese and fried in mineral oil. Nelson said. That must be the best thing Ive ever eaten. They were so cheesy and greasy and good.

After I finished mine, they asked me, Do you want another one? and I said, Can I?

When they reached Taco Bar, Nelson noticed that the expected bush plane approached from an unanticipated direction. The pilot spotted him immediately upon exiting the plane.

Are you Stuart Nelson? he asked.

Yes, Nelson replied.

I cant believe its you, the pilot said. The whole worlds looking for you!

The pilot flew the party to the small Yukon town Mayo, where Nelson had originally departed three weeks ago. His passport and cash were gone, lost with his boat. So were his truck keys, but incredibly, Nelson found some misplaced spares sitting in the bed. After making some calls, Nelson managed to get some traveling cash and secure his way back home. Days later, he found himself in joyous reunion with his family and friends.

Fellow outdoorsmen discovered Nelsons boat on Sept. 17. He plans to return this month and salvage whatever was not lost to the river.

In October, one of Nelsons Swiss rescuers, Pascal Fleury, sent him a letter. Living in Switzerland We are probably not really able to get the meaning of being all alone, Fleury wrote. I am deeply impressed on how calmly you seemed to accept what had happened to you.

But in Nelsons mind, he never really was alone. And when he next returns to the wilderness, its likely that the solitude will seem a little less overbearing for his experience


I would rather be upside down in a canoe than right side up at my desk!

Fantastic story.

Wow!

So many lessons to be learned here.
#1 in my book is keeping mentally strong and doing what was REQUIRED to survive.
Winnie would of been proud ;)

Wow!

I've both dreamt & dreaded this situation.


Quote:

We had noodles with some kind of meat, Nelson said. It was so good.

I bet it was candidate for the best meal of his life.


Quote:

During the meal, the group started talking amongst themselves in German. After a brief conversation, they told Nelson it would be better for him to join them on the trip to Taco Bar.

Duh.  I wouldn't consider leaving him behind.  He must come and he must be the first on the plane, even if that means the plane has to take an extra trip.  Maybe you encounter his canoe & gear on the way.

Amazing story.

One other take-away, especially for the solo tripper.  The ditch kit.  It must have what you need to survive.  It must be on your person.  Something I'm shamefully lacking.   :-[

[quote author=Preacher link=1289304593/0#3 date=1289341459]One other take-away, especially for the solo tripper.  The ditch kit.  It must have what you need to survive.  It must be on your person.  Something I'm shamefully lacking.   :-[/quote]
That was a specific consideration when I picked the PFD I take on canoe trips ... large pockets.  One pocket is devoted to my ditch kit (fire starting tools/material, space blanket, hand sanitizer, etc.).  However, after reading the story, I've decided that I may need to upgrade to a larger knife.  I don't think I would be cutting much wood with my pocket knife (although the idea for carrying it was to create tender rather than "hack down trees".)

dd

Very good story.  Thanks for sharing.  I haven't traveled solo, but this and Dan Stephens's story have me thinking of carrying a survival kit with me at all times.  I'm routinely without a number of essentials when I'm double portaging, exploring, etc. leaving me one little mishap away from a major issue.

dd,

My PFD is like yours, large pockets that hold my ditch kit items.
I carry a small straight blade knife for kindling and solved the tree felling issue by including a stainless wire saw for cutting wood/felling shelter wood.
 I think if I was in brown bear country,  I'd have a .44 mag or larger handgun on person or in some pouch attached to PDF. Ruger Alaskan model comes to mind. I'd hate to survive a near drowning only to be mauled/killed by a bear :'(

solotripper wrote on Nov 9^th, 2010 at 11:14pm:

solved the tree felling issue by including a stainless wire saw for cutting wood/felling shelter wood.

I've tried several different models of wire saw and every one I've tried has been terrible.  I've even tried a brand that is kind of like a chain saw blade with hefty handles on both ends.  Still not great, but better than turning beaver.

What brand do you use?

dd

dd,

Don't know the brand name.  I got mine off a military surplus site. It has round finger rings on each end and in pinch could be used as a small game snare. I believe it's a standard issued item in pilot's ditch bags.

I found that by taking a suitable sized branch, notching each end, and attaching via the rings, you would get a serviceable bow saw.

Not for daily use, but more than adequate in a pinch.

Some rugged tale. I'm with the chap who thought leaving him in the bush a bum idea.

Good ideas about improving a ditch kit. More gear for Santa to bring.

Among the thoughts, SPOT. I bought one and the family loved to get messages saying I was OK.

I have gear stowed in my PFD pockets like other do here. I have a rain suit/hat/gloves/hammock first aid kit, in day pack that sits in front of me as I paddle. I lash my packs in, but keep day pack handy in case I go over and wind/waves separate me from canoe.

The day pack will float and I figure IF I go over, I can grab hold and use it as a extra flotation device and make for shore.

After reading his account, I'm wondering what if anything he could of done different/better in the way of keeping hi survival gear closer, even in the situation he found himself in?

I don't paddle rivers/white water, so maybe I'm all wrong about this idea, but here's my thought's on it.

I think I would get a waterproof wet water type back, the kind that rolls down and secures with buckles. I would have all my ditch gear in that , that won't carry practically on my person. I'd have a short floating type line attached to bag, and hooked via carabiner to the D-ring on my PFD.
I have a small rescue knife on PFD that I could use IF bag became entangled and I had to cut myself free.

I know in raging waters the bag might make it harder to swim free, but IF you could make it okay to shore, you'd be far better equipped for survival with maybe a decent tarp/hammock/sleeping bag type rescue blanket/rain suit/ signal mirror/ mini-flare gun and some of those boater type floating smoke flares. A magnesium type fire starter/folding saw/hatchet and maybe a pistol/ pistol grip shotgun might not hurt either.

I'm sure there are drawbacks, but curious about what others think. Every time I read a story like that, I think what I would do in the same situation and how I would avoid his miscues. Of course hindsight is always 20-20, but X-Mas is coming up and you can never be to well equipped in a emergency ;)

After reading this tale, I just ordered a bigger knife. In anticipation of Santa, I'm going to be doing lots of hard thinking about what I need to carry on my person. And take into account what I read on this thread.

As far as a ditch kit is concerned, my focus is mostly on what will be ON ME if I ditch.  Since I'm rarely without my PFD on the water, that's where my initial focus is:

I previously mentioned that one of the large pockets on my PFD is devoted to ditch kit items.  More specifically, this pocket contains:

1. space blanket/sleeping bag similar to the item reference in   (You need to Login or Register  I opted for the bag because I feel it provides a better chance of retaining body heat and could serve as an overnite bivy if necessary.  This item is stored in its own plastic bag.

each of the items below are in a snack sized plastic bag and each individual item is stored in a smaller "jewlery sized" plastic bag.

2. small cigarette lighter
3. Swedish fire steel (produces hot sparks and doesn't require the use of a knife like a magnesium stick)
4. Dryer lint (several small bags)
5. Novelty candles (the kind that stay lit even when you try to blow them out)
6. Small bottle of purel hand sanitizer (both for fire starter and antiseptic)

My second large pocket contains a small multi-tool.  I think I may want to add snare wire and fishing line to this pocket (it does SOMETIMES contain a "pony spool" but it will now become a permanent item..

I also have a water resistant fanny pack that travels with me across portages when I'm not in or carrying my PFD.  It also has many of the same items and things like a compass, emergence whistle, signal mirror and so on.  It is always nearby when I'm traveling, but there is no garantee I'll wind up with it if I ditch.

dd

I carry one of these in one of the pockets of my PFD which I always wear when in the canoe. I have added a small key chain pill container in which I packed a vasoline impregnated cotton ball for fire starting. Nothing catches a spark quite like it, even when wet:  
  (You need to Login or Register

After the posts here about anchors and drift socks, both of which I use, I put one of these on the outside of the PFD where it is readily accessible in case I need to cut a line:
  (You need to Login or Register

After reading this I'm seriously considering adding a larger, fixed blade knife and a space blanket.

Pat

Well here is something completely unexpected.  

I was checking out my ditch kit since this thread got me thinking about it again.  My silver space blanket type sleeping bag is now a mostly clear mylar sleeping bag.  I've had the bag for a few years and have given it a casual inspection after past trips ... just not since I return from trips this season.

I guess I'll be buying a replacement!  So, here is another important tip ... recheck EVERYTHING before you head into the backcountry.

On the good news side, I did confirm that my Swedish fire steel would ignite a Vaseline impregnated cotton ball ... only took a couple or three swipes down the steel and POOF!  BTW:  I added the fire steel to my ditch kit because I do a fair number of early season trips.  It doesn't take too many minutes in icy cold water to make you "ham handed" enough that you probably couldn't operate a typical cigarette lighter.  I can operate the fire steel even wearing gloves!

dd

Great original post and lots of good suggestions for emergency survival kits.

Besides the space blanket, lighter, fire starter, and first aid items, I also pack a couple of feet of duct tape - it rolls up to a bit bigger than a cigarette, and we all know you can do anything with duct tape :)

Since most old threads eventually disappear into history where nobody reads them, would it be worthwhile to reprint the op and a summary of the best suggestions on the "Discover Wilderness" page? BW/Q isn't Alaska, but I'm sure this level of emergency preparedness is of interest to everyone.

I always carry a sturdy fixed blade knife and have been experimenting with how to carry a ditch kit. I need to find a comfortable, water resistant, fanny pack. I used to carry a round tin (empty Bear Grease can) about 4 in in diameter and 2 in thick wrapped with duct tape in my PFD. But that made a sizeable lump.

I tried to start a fire in a down pour one time without using my favorite militarty firestarter Trioxane. It was a candle that finally did the trick. I scraped the wet bark from the kindling and shaved the inner wood then dried it over the candle until I had enough to start. Then shaved bark and dried the larger sticks until I finally had a nice fire. The partial serration on my fixed blade KaBar really helped with preparing the wood.

Joe_Schmeaux wrote on Nov 11^th, 2010 at 7:42am:

Since most old threads eventually disappear into history where nobody reads them, would it be worthwhile to reprint the op and a summary of the best suggestions on the "Discover Wilderness" page? BW/Q isn't Alaska, but I'm sure this level of emergency preparedness is of interest to everyone.

You mean this one?
  (You need to Login or Register
Works for me.

Here's a idea that I picked up in a outdoor survival book.
I think it would be a valuable addition in a cold water ditch kit.
I've used it car camping to warm my sleeping bag.

I don't think many ditch kits will include a sleeping bag, so other than clothes on back and whatever you have in kit, your space blanket/bag along with you fire is what going to keep you warm.

Get some leather sheeting from a craft store. I found some stuff that looks like the leather they use on tool pouches. Cut 1 piece about 12" square and the other piece 12" x 3 ft. You can make it any size you want, the ratio between the 2 pieces is the important thing.

Using a hole punch, punch holes on 3 sides of the square and 3 sides of the rectangle piece, to match the square. I used leather bootlaces to lace them together, going around the edges as you go. When you get done, you have a pouch with enough leather left, to wrap around the pouch, giving you a double layer of protection. Punch 2 holes a couple of inches down from the middle of the rectangle piece. Thread a suitable length of leather/nylon cord to be able to tie packet together.

Depending on conditions, you may/may not be able to keep fire going all day/night?  When you can, heat a suitable sized rock until it's sizzling hot. Be careful of river rocks, they can explode from built up steam. Put hot rock into leather pouch, wrap leather flap and tie off.

Inside a space bag, it will keep you warm for hours. I bought a piece of soapstone for my car camping set-up, but I don't think anyone would want to haul rocks into the wilderness  ;D

All the rocks I carry into the bush are in my head. I can get independent confirmation.

jimmar wrote on Nov 11^th, 2010 at 10:03am:

I need to find a comfortable, water resistant, fanny pack.

I use the   (You need to Login or Register.  It's capacity is 1.5L, so it is small (which also makes it easily manageable).  I'll stress that it is water RESISTANT, not waterproof.  During an all-day rain, the contents will likely still be dry, but if you take a dip with it, the contents could get a little damp.  However, there are fanny packs in this line that would be waterproof (e.g., have a roll-down top).  But I was looking for SMALL.  

I wear it a couple of times a week during my walks in the woods, so it wears well.  For this purpose, I have a water bottle clipped to the belt, along with a pedometer.

During canoe trips, it is the fanny pack, that I mentioned above, on portages (and day trips).  The belt is where I hang my nalgene bottle and bear spray holster.

Of course, with this level of use, it gets filthy so it has been through the washing machine a few times.

dd

I like Outdoor Research products.
  (You need to Login or Register
+ Ripstop nylon main body
+ Ripstop siliconized nylon sidewalls
+ Water-resistant top zipper
+ Webbing side handles
+ Bound seams for durability

I have sowed a pocket to the back of my PFD to have items I will only need if I find myself on shore without my canoe. I have used this with the same contents for about 6 years. There is one book of matches, some fire helper (waxNcotten) and a space blanket.  I just checked them and the matches work and the space blanket is good.  I have been swimming with the jacket on several times.  Everything is in its own plastic bag wrapped with a rubber band wrapped around it and then everything in another bag.  I ware my PFD!
  (You need to Login or Register   (You need to Login or Register

I really didn't expect this thread to go this direction but I am sure glad it did [smiley=thumbup.gif] it gives us another thing to think about [smiley=dankk2.gif]

Any of you use Fire Starter? It's essentially a small does of napalm. I've used it to start fires in pretty rugged circumstances.

Someone over at solotripping did a nice write-up of various fire starters.
  (You need to Login or Register

I've never had a problem, knock wood.  Many things I carry are excellent fire starters from BabyBell cheese to stove fuel.

Ancient_Angler wrote on Nov 13^th, 2010 at 8:03pm:

Any of you use Fire Starter? It's essentially a small does of napalm. I've used it to start fires in pretty rugged circumstances.

I sometimes carry it in my gear pack, but its a little messy/heavy to put into the ditch kit that I'm wearing.

Looking at the solotripping material, in one episode of Survivorman with Les Stroud, he started a fire with a single frito chip.  I'm sure a small bag would make an inferno.  I guess that makes it a good survival food, since it is "multi-purpose."  

BTW:  In another episode, Les also destroyed a ring saw with one pull and he also complained that it wasn't long enough for a snare wire.  I discussed this with my paddling partner over dinner last night (he is a retired veterinarian) and he has a length of bone saw wire in this gear that came from his vet. practice.  I may have to check that out as a "ring saw" replacement.

dd

I miss Les Stroud's show.

I've never had trouble with the Fire Starter making a mess, though I guess it could.

That vet's bone sawis a good idea. A best friend is a retired vet. I'll see if I can get one. Of course, I could always go buy one.

The troubles that i have found with the wire saw is a durability one, they break at any tight kinks with use...green bone is softer that dry wood.

Ancient_Angler wrote on Nov 14^th, 2010 at 3:50am:

I miss Les Stroud's show.

If you REALLY miss the show (and have a NetFilx subscription), you can do an "instant download" and watch episodes of Survivorman anytime you want. :D  But I hope you have a high-speed connection. ;)

Just checked:  NetFlix has a 30-day free trial right now.  Go for it!

dd

Preacher wrote on Nov 13^th, 2010 at 10:55pm:

Someone over at solotripping did a nice write-up of various fire starters.   (You need to Login or Register I've never had a problem, knock wood.  Many things I carry are excellent fire starters from BabyBell cheese to stove fuel.

Interesting test.
I use the paraffin wax/dryer lint method with a twist.
Insert one of those trick b-day candles into egg cup before was hardens.
The trick candle once lit won't extinguish because it's made with magnesium powder.  For emergency situations or when you just don't want to mess with other less reliable methods.

Dry birch bark/pine cone's are my what I look for normally.

Ancient_Angler wrote on Nov 14^th, 2010 at 3:50am:

I miss Les Stroud's show.

I miss watching him set fire to his shelters!   :D



Love the trick candle trick.  Very clever.

Preacher wrote on Nov 15^th, 2010 at 5:53pm:

Ancient_Angler wrote on Nov 14th, 2010 at 3:50am: I miss Les Stroud's show. I miss watching him set fire to his shelters!   :D

Did he do that more than twice?  I remember one was on a kayak trip in Alaska and another where he made a shelter against the roots of a toppled tree. ;D

I've also noticed that most of these shows (when showing fire-making) go from ember to flame in a matter of just a few seconds.  (I wonder how many takes it took to accomplish that ... or if, between cuts, there wasn't a cigarette lighter involved).

dd

They surely would not fake anything on reality TV. ;)

No way...we are all honest folk and everything that you read in books is true too! ;)

'Only' twice as I recall.  Still too funny.

Learning the skill of fire from an ember does take a lot of practice and patience.  I've tried a couple times and not succeeded yet.  I wouldn't be surprised if what Stroud shows is essentially what he does.  He seems to show his failures as much as his victories.

There's a common & legit practice in documentary film-making about taking licence with certain aspects.  If it's too dangerous to film live or the footage sucks it's acceptable to stage it IF the staging is true to the reality.

That Man vs. Wild guy, Gryllys(?) pushes the boundries.  He's out there with a 2+ person camera crew and likely a sound guy too.  Stroud is out there alone.  The two don't compare.

i have a PFD with big pockets, and a waterproof ditch kit behind me in the canoe.

Since I don't paddle whitewater, I've never been concerned about my ability to get the ditch kit out of the canoe before/in case we're separated. (Now I wonder if I should be worried about that.)

But anyway, three things I carry that haven't been mentioned:

In the PFD, one of those baclava head and neck covers, like bicyclists wear in the winter. Plus a few of those chemical hand warmer shake-em-up things. Obviously for one-time use only, but I figure (I think it was MadMatt who gave me the idea) they'd help get me over the chill associated with the dunking.

And in the bag, instead of a wire saw, which I've never really heard great things about, a small, extremely light hatchet. Gerber model. Sharp as a razor, hard plastic handle. Notch the branches, then break for firewood or to build a shelter. A lot easier on the hands, and it, literally, weighs ounces.

Have a space blanket and rain gear, wool hat, gloves and socks. No sleeping bag, but then I've not gone solo yet, so my approach is different.

-- kypaddler

Oh, and regarding cooking the fish ...

On this last trip, I tried doing this to cook a fish sans utensils, and it worked:

Gut the fish, cut off head, tail and fins, and carefully ease out the spine and ribs. Spread the fish.

Cut a long stick, say 18 inches to 24 inches long, and split halfway down, then sharpen the unsplit end.

Cut two smaller sticks for the "crossbeams," and sharpen their ends.

Impale either ends of those sticks into sides of "opened" fish, one at the top and one at the bottom, to hold it open.

Slide that assembly inbetween the split ends of the big stick, with the big stick essentially replacing the spine of the fish.

Tie the ends of the split stick back together, so it squeezes everything together.

You're left with the fish essentially "crucified" (forgive the unintentional blasphemy) on a cross that has two crossbeams.

Then stick the pointed end into the ground with the stick at an angle over some coals.

Spin 180 degrees at the proper time to cook the other side of the thick part of the meat that ran along the spine. (I used a smallmouth).

You then scrape the meat away from the skin to eat.

Having said that, however, I think the guy in this story was one baaad due, and I am filled with admiration and respect.

To never panic, to stay optimistic, to keep on keeping on despite miserable conditions: what a feat.

-- kypaddler

Quote:

Plus a few of those chemical hand warmer shake-em-up things

I took a dunking one year, my first and hopefully my last ;D
I was wearing rain gear and over my nylon pants and shirt, with a fleece vest. I got to shore, removed the fleece vest, wrung and whirled it semi-dry, and put my raincoat back on. I opened a few of those chemical heater packs and placed one over my kidney area, tucked into my waistband to hold them. I pulled my hands into my armpit area settled into comfortable spot behind a big boulder for a windbreak, and tucked into a ball. Within minutes my core temp was up, and I had to open my pit zipper vents and pull my hood back.

My gear was dry, so I just resumed paddling. If I had to build a fire, dry gear or stay where I was at, the chemical packs would of made the job much easier. Cold numb fingers and falling body temp are a bad combination.

Another variation on your fish " stick" method is a little quicker but would require more care on the dining end.

Gut your fish, leaving head on. Take 2 green sticks just big enough to hold weight of fish. Sharpen one end of each, and starting at tail, thread first from outside, thru ribs, up so far then out again, then thru gills and out the mouth. You can leave the sticks alone, or tie ground ends together with a couple short pieces of cord. Grill as you described.

An alternative IF you don't have the necessary knife/skill or patience to prepare as you described.
I have a outdoor skills book, that shows the Native people using a single spear like stick, stuck thru the gills crossway's of a NP that has just been gutted. They suspended the pike over coals and used a couple of green sticks crosswise to keep the body cavity open. Roasted/smoked until a sharp knife/stick would push thru easily from the skin side.

Head off?  The best meat is in the cheeks!

The OP is a good story of survival. As someone already mentioned, accepting his situation and staying focused on doing what's necessary saved his life. He didn't panic and take off running, he stayed put and addressed his needs. And carrying a ditch kit on his person definitely helped.

I recently started reading "Lost in the Wild" by Cary Griffith, and I ordered extra copies to give to some friends. I've been too busy with work to fulfill my solo trip plans (2 years in a row now, next year I will quit my job if I have to), but I have started "grooming" some old friends for tripping in the future. We spent some time this fall bow hunting deer, and also hunting grouse and small game in the SNF, and both are committed to a spring fishing trip. Next summer, I hope to have them in canoes, and hopefully next fall we can relocate our hunting camp to somewhere deep in the BW. We did a lot of mild bushwhacking without incident, but in the back of my mind I was always thinking about what could happen.

This thread also got me thinking. I am also going to put together "ditch kits" for them, something they can carry on their person when we're out hunting or hiking and get them through a couple of days should they become separated from the group. I like the small hip packs someone mentioned, as it could be clipped to a belt and wouldn't feel like an extra burden to carry. But would it hold everything? Some ideas for useful supplies, or at least what I would want / want them to have:


-Compass (even if they have one already)
-FireSteel and a Bic
-Some kind of tinder (I like the vaseline + cotton)
-Space blankets, maybe 2 or 3 (spares or can use for shelter)
-Whistle
-Snare Wire
-Water purification tablets and/or filter straw in case of no container
-Paracord if space allows
-Clif bars or similar
-Some bandages and basic first aid supplies
-Extra batteries for the 2-ways we left in the truck and didn't carry
-Basic tools to clear and clean a .22 thats been dropped in mud
-Topo map of the hunting area if possible
-Pen and small notepad for making patrol maps
-Paracord Pedomoter (thanks to my retired Army friend for the idea)
-Large plastic garbage bags or small-packing poncho


I feel that with the above, if that's all I had, I could last long enough to be rescued or find my way to safety. I carry a backpack when I'm out hunting or canoeing solo, that contains most of the above plus my lightweight sleeping bag and a comprehensive first aid kit, because I have room. Even if I have a large pack for gear, I always find it nice to have a day pack for fishing or side trips. It's tricky thinking about creating a survival kit to fit in a small space, so I'm sure this will be an ongoing process.

Since we were hunting, all of us had sheath knives and multi-tools, which include small saw blades. There were a few posters looking for bigger knives, so here's my recommendation: I really like my SOG Seal Pup because it's a solid knife, perfectly sized, and the nylon sheath has a pocket that holds a firesteel or whatver else. I've gone through a lot of knives, and this is the best one I've ever owned.

All good things.
I'd consider this upgrade, IF you could fit it in ?
Not as cheap as the foil space blankets, but way more versatile.
Keep a few foil blankets for windbreak/rain tarps. With foil side toward fire, the reflective heat and the space bag I'm suggesting, you would be good to go in most conditions ;)  It's made by Adventure Medical.


  (You need to Login or Register

Akula wrote on Nov 20^th, 2010 at 1:25pm:

I really like my SOG Seal Pup because it's a solid knife, perfectly sized, and the nylon sheath has a pocket that holds a firesteel or whatver else. I've gone through a lot of knives, and this is the best one I've ever owned.

Thanks Akula for taking the time. I've never owned a "real" knife and had been thinking about posting a query. I've got a dandy folding filet knife and a pocket knife but nothing like this. I read lots of reviews and all hold it in high esteem. Everyone seems to like the nylon sheathe as opposed to the kydex.
  (You need to Login or Register

ST- I have been thinking about those, because I've tried to use those space blankets before, and they leave a lot to be desired. But they can also be used to help waterproof a hasty shelter, among other improvised uses - however packing two or three space blankets might take up the same volume as that emergency bivvy, so this will require some further thought and testing on my part.


masterangler - Be wary when ordering the SOG from retailers, as they often don't offer a choice between the kydex and nylon sheath. I ordered my nylon sheath after the fact - the kydex is kind of neat but its wider (so I couldn't secure it to my pack strap comfortably), and I wanted the pocket to hold a firesteel and a whetstone. My hunting buddy got the Field Pup, and he really likes it. It's just as solid, but a little smaller, and doesn't have the half-serrated blade, which is a feature I enjoy.

Akula

In an older discussion a couple years ago, I prevailed and convinced everyone that the #1 survival item (after your noggin), is a firearm.  Sounds like they'll have one.  Add it to your list.

In every survival story I've yet read, the book ends by chpt. 3 if a firearm would have been brought along.  Number one use would be to fire "location shots".  Number two use would be in attempting to put a rabbit in your belly.  Last use would be in ending your misery...try do that with your Buck knife!

happy trails

  (You need to Login or Register

Akula,

if a survival kit gets too big to bother carrying, you won't -- I'd go with a smaller mylar bag like the one above;  I have an "emergency poncho" I picked up up somewhere that's a bit longer and wider than a deck of cards but only half as thick. Just google for "emergency poncho" and you'll find lots of options.  crawling into the bag with the poncho worn over the top of that should offer waterproof and warmth.  I'd back the firesteel and bic up with at least a book of matches, or a small box of strike anywhere waterproof matches (in ziplock bags, doubled).  Butane doesn't work too well in really cold temps.  

The fanny pack I use for hunting is an old convertable model, with a zippered top that opens up into a day pack - when zippered closed which is how I carry it 99% of the time, there is just enough room in that folded up top half for me to carry my "emergency kit" -  that poncho, a knife sharpener (which I use everytime I get an elk), a bottle of iodine tablets (which I also use from time to time) , a mini first aid kit (few bandaids and aspirin mostly), a small hank of thin nylon cord -  100' I think - might be more, but can't remember, a small spare knife like a Gerber LST, a spare compass (there have been times when I was certain that my compass was wrong - had to be! - digging out that second companss to confirm direction can be really important in those instances - of course compass #1 was correct, but now I knew it for fact), a spare flashlight that's about the size of a 12 Ga shell - I have used that that spare light several times, when I've had the bulb on my Mini-mag burn out on the way in - I can replace the batteries in the dark, but no way could I replace the bulb without another light to see by; a small matchbox wrapped in a couple of layers of ziplocks (maybe 2 - don't remember) a spare pen - mostly to fill out the tag if my other pen doesn't work, and a topo map of my main hunitng area - that's my tinder if I need it.  That's form memery, can't remember what else may be in there, but that's enough for me to survive.  I can't fit a space blanket or bag in there, not much else.  The volume availbale is maybe 12" x 5" by 1" thick and in ther is the folded up top of hte daypack as well, so its a tight fir.

I've kind of been playing devil's advocate on the altoids tin thread, so I'll keep wearing that hat.  Whatcha gonna do with that snare wire ?  How many people have you ever heard of who actually succsessfully snared something  (I did see a Griz get snared once on a TV show) ?  again, to be useful, you'd need soft wire that could be bend/broken into pieces, and enough wire to set maybe half a dozen or dozen snares in different locations if you actually hoped to snare a rabbit.  You'd be better off with the nylon cord  - you could sit by a squirrel midden or fav log of the squirrel and maybe with a long leash, be able to snare a red squirrel - odds for that are a whole lot better than thinking you'dd get a rabbit.  I've been thinking that a useful item, for a snare, would be a long 30# test leader - wire or mono - would be simple to clip back on itself to make a loop, and that could be attached to your length of nylon line.

I favor a lot of smaller diameter line over a bit of para cord - I don't carry a space blanket, so my plan is to use that line for shelter building - and I want enough to do that - to lash brush or small trees together, or to lash a cross pole to two trees for a leanto.

I googled paracord pedometer - an abacus on string ?  I'd say forget that and use the space for another pack of matches, or more line.

wally wrote on Nov 23^rd, 2010 at 1:17pm:

Akula ... Number one use would be to fire "location shots". happy trails

I was lost while hunting one time and fired 3 location shots. No use! Tried it again. Still no luck. Eventually I found my way home after running out of arrows.  ;D

jimmar wrote on Nov 23^rd, 2010 at 4:41pm:

wally wrote on Nov 23rd, 2010 at 1:17pm: Akula ... Number one use would be to fire "location shots". happy trails I was lost while hunting one time and fired 3 location shots. No use! Tried it again. Still no luck. Eventually I found my way home after running out of arrows.  ;D

ROFLMAO!   ;D

Needed a hanky to wipe the tears from my eyes!! ::)

[quote author=Mad_Mat link=1289304593/40#45 date=1290521126]   (You need to Login or Register
or if to spend a few minutes:

  (You need to Login or Register

I actually bought my replacement from   (You need to Login or Register (priced between the two above, and they threw in a free caribiner -- 3" size).  I also bought a heavier mylar tube tent from this site ... bulkier than the sleeping bag, but it also includes nylon cord to help hang it.

But the lowest cost solution (to be sleeping bag/shelter) that I've read about is two garbage bags, bottom cut out of one, joined with duct tape.  If you REALLY wanted to go nuts, you might select the   (You need to Login or Register

dd

My late Father was a avid old school deer hunter.
He and his buddies would set-up a army surplus tent and stay in the woods for a week at a time.

He spent more than one night in the woods, trailing a wounded deer.
They all wore the full wool coats and bibs. Dad always carried a few tins of sardines and kitchen matches in a old pill bottle.

He also carried 2 big garbage bags in his pocket. If he had to spend night in woods, he would find a old stump and set in on fire. Then he would step into one bag and tie it off each side of his waist.
The other bag he would cut a slit for his head and arms. He stayed warm and dry and eventually would come back dragging that big buck ;)

The new woven type lawn and leaf bags would be excellent for a make-shift bivy.

Mad_Mat wrote on Nov 23^rd, 2010 at 2:05pm:

(You need to Login or Register Akula, if a survival kit gets too big to bother carrying, you won't

Exactly. This is why size is a such a major concern. And it does, as Azaela mentioned, all depend on the person, the day, and the activity. For instance, if out hunting, a lot of equipment would be redundant, like knives. So I'm looking to create a basic, "cover-all" sort of kit that a guy could wear on a belt or in a leg pocket regardless of the activity, without feeling like it's a burden. Otherwise, as you say, it will end up being left in camp or in the truck.



Quote:

I've kind of been playing devil's advocate on the altoids tin thread, so I'll keep wearing that hat.  Whatcha gonna do with that snare wire ?  How many people have you ever heard of who actually succsessfully snared something

Since a snare wire or two doesn't take up that much room, and could have several other uses as well, I think it's worth including. I'll be perfectly honest and say I've never used it before, but all of the "survival" texts reccommend it so highly, I think at the very least it deserves some experimentation. So this winter I will give it a go, set some snares around the property back home and see what happens.

Even if it ends up being ineffective in an actual survival situation, if you're staying put and waiting for rescue, it might give the mind and body something to keep occupied, hopeful, and focused on the goal of continuing living. And that in itself could be useful enough to warrant the minimal extra volume and the few extra ounces.



Quote:

I googled paracord pedometer - an abacus on string ?  I'd say forget that and use the space for another pack of matches, or more line.

These I have played around with quite a bit, for constructing rough geology maps in the field without a tape and line. It's just a small length of paracord with some "abacus" knots, which you can use to count off paces. It hangs on my field pack and I hardly even notice its there, but could also be attached to a belt or a zipper pull. If you do have a map and compass, and you can determine your location, being able to accurately measure distance while walking through brush could be an asset while traveling, hunting, or searching for firewood, etc.

Hence also the inclusion of a pen and a small scratch pad for making patrol maps. Some people might scoff at the idea, but speaking for myself only, it would be a comfort to have. It doubles as a way to write down thoughts and observations, to keep that lost wandering mind occupied and focused on the greater task at hand.

I'm looking forward to continuing this little project.   :)

It WAS an interesting read. I have started my ditch kit as well. I have attached an "unslack pack" to the rear of my inflatable PFD. It's ultralight and attaches to pack straps. I think it is perfect for this application.
  (You need to Login or Register

One thing I noted in the story was his dependance on fish for food. That would go a long way in my opinion to surviving. I don't do well without some viddles. I have put 2 small little cleos and a roadrunner in my kit. My intention is to put a small spool of 8lb line in as well. The spool can act just like a fishing reel spool would and allow for decent hand casts. Hold the spool in one hand and toss with the other hand. Probably would work pretty well.

Quote:

My intention is to put a small spool of 8lb line in as well.

Along those lines, maybe you could use 20-30 pound braided line, still 8lb mono thin, but strong enough to use for snare or tying branches for a frame for solar blanket windbreak.

For snare, I'd rig a neck type snare/bent branch vs leg snare which could be chewed thru.

You could also rig loop on long sapling pole and go Spruce Grouse hunting. I've had them walk with-in feet of me on portage trail and off-trail. I heard the Native People don't even wast a shell on them, just snag as described.

I'd suggest a braid over mono.  Mono degrades and has memory and is much less durable over time.  Personally my behaviour with a ditch kit is something that gets assembled once and unless used goes untouched for years.  By the time I need that fishing line it would likely snap under the weight of bait.

Dave Hadfield has a neat fishing rig that could be used for a ditch kit too.
  (You need to Login or Register

That is damn clever.
Don't know about putting it in a small ditch kit, But I think I'll make one just for car camping stream fishing off a bank/bridge.

"Hence also the inclusion of a pen and a small scratch pad for making patrol maps. Some people might scoff at the idea, but speaking for myself only, it would be a comfort to have."

I went thru the "survival stuff" in the top of my fanny pack, just to see what I'd forgotten to list earlier.  Keeping in mind that some of the stuff is more "hunting" oriented than survival oriented, there is a spare cow call, a spare broadhead, and a small ziplock of bits and pieces of flagging tape I've cleaned out of the woods (I hate that people don't pull thier damn flagging down - most of its not even from blood trailing, but from marking extremely obvious horse trails, that you couldn't lose your way on if you tried - grrr!) -  I added another 50' of line, 2 AA's for the mini mag  (must have used the ones I though were in there).

Anyway, it occured to me that you might want to include a few yards of flagging tape in your survival kit, as long as you are carrying that pen.  If you are nut hunkering down to await rescue (something I'd probably never do) you could take that pen and write a simple message on the flagging, and leave it to mark your trial if someone is  looking for you - something like - date; your name; "heading Due North" or whatever, to leave a clue - tie the flagging in the most visible or most likely place for it to be found.

I'm not actually anti-snare wire; even though it may not take up much room in a kit, I just think that using that extra space for a matchbook would have more value.  Unless you are truly going into some huge wilderness, food is of relatively little importance.  I recall form sometime in the last few years, a woman being found along a river (in WA or somewhere in the PNW) who survived two weeks without food while awaiting rescue.  Turns out, no one was looking for her, or they were looking miles away - I forget which it was, but she was found accidentally by hikers.

You'd likely have more chance to snare a grouse than a rabbit, but its still pretty unlikely I'd think.  The bent stick for a spring type of snare is probably what I'd likely use (outside of an aldar swamp,  what are the odds of finding that springy sapling just where you need it - probably would have to improvise something) - but how likely is a rabbit going to walk in that spot - unless you are talking deep snow, a snowshoe rabbit will be all over his territory, and not all that likely to come back on that trail for a few days;  the deeper and softer the snow, the more likely they will stick to thier trails, but they will have many many different trails, so you'd need to have many snares set to increase your odds.  I' believe hunting in BWCA was mentioned, which is why I assume Snowshoe rabbit and not Cottontail - better odds of a Cottontail using its run.  If there is no snow on the ground, you won't have a clue where a rabbit may be travelling.  In fall or spring, maybe you could set a snare on a "drumming log" if you locate one and snag a grouse.  I once killed a blue grouse with a thrown stick, they are kinda dumb.  

And before you experiment with those snares, read your hynting and trapping regs to be sure it is legal - I'm pretty sure it would be illegal to snare a rabbit in Colorado, for instance.

solotripper wrote on Nov 25^th, 2010 at 4:02pm:

Quote: My intention is to put a small spool of 8lb line in as well. For snare, I'd rig a neck type snare/bent branch vs leg snare which could be chewed thru.

Critters chewing their leg off is a myth. When the blood flow to the extremity stops, the limb becomes completely numb and in the process of biting the trap the toes are sometimes bitten off.

Actual limbs being left (never in a snare......sometimes in a steel trap) shows an inexperienced trapper. What has happened is too powerful a trap was employed which broke the bone of the animal and it was able to spin out. Traps are intended only to grip.

Leg snares are completely ineffective and should not be employed.

Snaring is the main method of taking Bobcat here

Preacher wrote on Nov 25^th, 2010 at 4:12pm:

I'd suggest a braid over mono.  Mono degrades and has memory and is much less durable over time.  Personally my behaviour with a ditch kit is something that gets assembled once and unless used goes untouched for years.  By the time I need that fishing line it would likely snap under the weight of bait. Dave Hadfield has a neat fishing rig that could be used for a ditch kit too.   (You need to Login or Register

Groovy little kit. Perhaps a tad big for a ditch kit. Handlining is time honored here in Florida and probably brought over by latinos. I like the multi facet uses that braid would allow but I don't like its reduced effectiveness when fished straight when it comes to putting fish on the bank which is, after all, the whole point. Give me some mono anytime and I'll likely out fish straight braid 5 to 1 maybe more (in my NSHO "not so humble opinion" ;D ). Besides, there is a good chance of sustaining a dandy cut while handlining with braid. Get some 8lb trilene xt and I bet it will last quite a bit longer than you would suspect. Keep in mind that from shore you are likely seeking out smaller fish and a more delicate presentation needs to be employed. Smaller lures and consequently lighter line should be employed if one wants to toss a smaller lure any distance.

I think getting some grub (or would that be "grubs" :D) would go a long way mentally as well as physically in being able to cope. Hope is a powerful thing and food offers that in abundance.

Great suggestions for a survival ditch kit. Although I always have survival items, I usually have them in a handy day back for easy access.  I will plan to wear one next trip.  

Since I normally go on October trips, cold and hypothermia are main items to consider.  I wouldn't want to spend much time in the water and then freezing temperatures.  I've always brought a space blanket, but I like the suggestions listed here for the sleeping bag if it fits in the ditch kit.  After recently reading three books on people stuck in cold survival scenarios  it reinforces my obsession for being able to stay warm.  With cold, freezing hands I always bring some hand warmers.  I always have several methods to start a fire; the normal lighter and matches, I always bring parafin fire starters, and finally I bring a flint lantern starter for emergenies.

In addition, I have a signal mirror for signaling airplanes   (You need to Login or Register; which would be the most likely way to attact attention if everyone was looking for you.  The mirrow allows you to aim the reflection in the direction of the airplane.

starwatcher

Mad_Mat wrote on Nov 26^th, 2010 at 2:00pm:

"And before you experiment with those snares, read your hynting and trapping regs to be sure it is legal - I'm pretty sure it would be illegal to snare a rabbit in Colorado, for instance.

Again, excellent point. I was hazy on details, so I checked it out for clarification. I have a MN small game and trapping license, both of which are required for trapping on public lands. But a guy can trap on his own property (read: primary residence) with only a trapping license. Residents can buy both licenses online from the MN DNR, unless you were born after 1989 - then you need to complete a trapper education program before they will issue the trapping license. Rabbits are legal to snare, trap, or shoot in Minnesota during the desingated winter season.

I was under the false impression that a guy could trap on his own land in Minnesota without a license, so I'm glad you brought that up! I have been reading about snaring methods (and rabbit recipes, yum) so I will put some of them to test over the winter.

Also a good point about the flagging tape, in combination with the pen or marker for leaving details in case someone is following your trail. However, I share your frustration about left-behind flag tape, and I also often leave the woods with a good handful of the stuff in my pack. I think it was in the other survival kit thread (maybe we should combine the two?) where Denton_Doc posted a link to a an online merchant which sells a good variety of nifty survival items. Among them was this   (You need to Login or Register, which I think is a good idea. I will likely order a few rolls of that stuff for my own personal use, and some will likely end up in the final version of the ditch kit.

Wouldn't it be a b**** to get lost, make a camp, then lose the camp while out searching for a trail or some other necessities? Jason Rasmussen's story headlined that idea, and that is why I always have more than one compass, paper and pen for making patrol maps, and a reliable means of measuring distance while walking, like the paracord pedometer. When I'm out hunting or searching for fishing holes, job #1 is navigator. Meat in the bag is a nice bonus, to be enjoyed at home with a cold beer and a hockey game on TV. Having some flagging tape would be convenient, and save the hassle of counting paces, taking azimuths, and drawing pictures.

I marked my deer stand "trails" with so-called Trail Tacks, basically a reflective button that you pin into trees to mark a path. You can't really see them during the day, as they're small and don't stand out like ugly flag tape, but at night or dusk/dawn with a flashlight, you can see them from a good distance away. At first I thought these wouldn't be very helpful in a survival / SAR situation, but then I read about the dog teams and their handlers preferring to operate at night. A trail tack marking a spot where you've left a flag or note with details about your condition and intentions would be easily noticed at night from across a large swamp, etc.

But does that possibility warrant the tacks' inclusion in a ditch kit of limited size? I guess we'll see once I start putting it together.

If you left a note in your car or with a friend before you headed out, and mentioned something like the tacks as part of your emergency gear, then maybe searchers would have a good idea of what to start looking for. I'd be willing to bet that these reflective tacks could be seen from the air as well, and provided you had a good quantity of them, could be arranged on open ground to form arrows, messages, etc.

Which brings me to a point unrelated to the ditch kit, but relevant to the situations requiring their use. Leaving detailed notes with whomever you trust before heading out, detailing your intentions and with instructions on who to contact if you don't return, which also details your experience, familiarity with the area, type of emergency gear, medical conditions, etc. would be a great help to rescuers and might help get you found faster. I've been pretty lax with this, but for future trips it will provide some security and peace of mind, if not for me than for the people I leave the details with.

Mad_Mat wrote on Nov 26^th, 2010 at 2:00pm:

"And before you experiment with those snares, read your hynting and trapping regs to be sure it is legal - I'm pretty sure it would be illegal to snare a rabbit in Colorado, for instance.

If I'm in a survival situation, regs be damned.  Food is food.  If it comes down to me or the last dodo, sorry dodo you're dinner tonight.

My concern of braid over mono is that in 3 years that mono might snap under the stress of knot tying.  MT does make a good point about effectiveness of terminal tackle.  Maybe toss in a spool of tippet material?

One recurring theme of Survivorman is the effect of food on cognitive function.  You can see it in his face & actions.  Uncertainty, confusion, frustration - and he does this regularly.

Akula wrote on Nov 26^th, 2010 at 4:48pm:

Mad_Mat wrote on Nov 26th, 2010 at 2:00pm: "And before you experiment with those snares, read your hunting and trapping regs to be sure it is legal - I'm pretty sure it would be illegal to snare a rabbit in Colorado, for instance. <snip> I was under the false impression that a guy could trap on his own land in Minnesota without a license, so I'm glad you brought that up! I have been reading about snaring methods (and rabbit recipes, yum) so I will put some of them to test over the winter. <snip> I marked my deer stand "trails" with so-called Trail Tacks, basically a reflective button that you pin into trees to mark a path. <snip> I'd be willing to bet that these reflective tacks could be seen from the air as well, and provided you had a good quantity of them, could be arranged on open ground to form arrows, messages, etc. <snip> Leaving detailed notes with whomever you trust before heading out, detailing your intentions and with instructions on who to contact if you don't return

Trapping/snares illegal or restricted?  For me, this could be over-thinking the problem.  If it is a survival situation, I'd gladly pay whatever fines are involved.

I've followed Trail Tacks back in the day when I was doing night geocaching.  True enough, you can see them from some distance when the beam of a flashlight hits them ... nice reflection ... and they are difficult to spot during the day.  However, I have my doubts about this being spotted from the air (at night).  And I doubt the pilot will be shining a flashlight toward the ground.  ;D

I've left notes behind (with wife and grown children) when I head out.  I often even keep Jimbo in the loop, since he has been to the areas where I'm canoeing ... and he knows my meager skill levels.   I've even been known to put my route plan into the self-service envelop I've used on occasion when entering Quetico pre-season.

dd

Preacher wrote on Nov 26^th, 2010 at 5:38pm:

Mad_Mat wrote on Nov 26th, 2010 at 2:00pm: "And before you experiment with those snares, read your hynting and trapping regs to be sure it is legal - I'm pretty sure it would be illegal to snare a rabbit in Colorado, for instance. If I'm in a survival situation, regs be damned.  Food is food.  If it comes down to me or the last dodo, sorry dodo you're dinner tonight.

I believe he was referring to my experiments this winter with snaring techniques, which would be illegal in some places. During an actual situation of need, as you said, food is food.

You bring up a good point about the affect on cognitive actions as a result of stress and lack of food (and lack of sleep, as the case may well be). All the more reason to have redundancies in equipment and in means of marking your way - going back to the discussion about trail tape and the like.

I believe that you use to only see moose in canoe country, but it seems like deer have increased over the years.  Likewise I don't see many rabbits in the BWCA.   Although I did see rabbit tracks on my last trip.  I suspect they are more abundant in the aspen type woods to the south.  When I was younger we used to try to snare rabbits, but wasn't very sussessful.  I think it's best to try to develop a funnel with logs or rocks that drives them into the trap, with numerous lines to check.  It will at least keep you busy while waiting for rescue.

starwatcher

I want to thank Akula for his recommendation on the seal pup elite fixed blade knife. Just got it today and I am tickled (that's Southern). I like everything about it as well as the nylon sheath. As per his experienced recommendation if you are looking for a strong knife that's perfectly sized to handle even larger tasks and is not overly heavy this really fits the bill.

In fact I want to thank the many contributors here on QJ. I have been able to learn loads about gear, places and techniques. It is very helpful to be able to learn from others experiences (both good and bad).

I will try and give back in the only area I really have any expertise in and will continue with the "fishing tip of the month" (did I hear a collective groan ;D :question). Perhaps someone will find it helpful.

Al

All this talk of snaring rabbits. A deer would be far easier provided you had the cable to hold one. Aircraft cable would suffice. It doesn't rust. Make a loop in one end and use a mashed nut to hold it in place. This will allow you to loop it around a tree and feed itself through the loop which will hold it around the tree without additional measures. A bent washer with two holes drilled to secure the cable completes the snare in a manner which it will close very easily. If you want perfection a bobby pin can hold both pieces a cable until the appointed time. About 3 or 4 feet of cable will suffice. It is very light and sorta/kinda compact (but not fit in an altoids tin). A smidge of fishing line to drop from a branch to the desired height and a very small stick from the ground up to the bottom of the snare will guide the head. Set in a runway it would be very effective. Simple. Again we are talking worst case scenario right :question At least you would have plenty of food ;).

starwatcher wrote on Nov 26^th, 2010 at 5:59pm:

Likewise I don't see many rabbits in the BWCA.

My last night on Mosquito Point one sauntered into my camp and nosed about in a brazen manner.  Didn't even run off when I moved.  Just sauntered away as though it was all part of his plan.

Thanks for the snare clarification.  I believe the Ontario fishing licence allows you to take frogs?

A deere?  That's what I want to deal with when I'm tired, lost & haven't eaten in days.  200# of not quite dead deere with hooves kicking.  I'll take the bunny whose head I can just stomp if I have to.   :D

Preacher wrote on Nov 26^th, 2010 at 7:24pm:

starwatcher wrote on Nov 26th, 2010 at 5:59pm: Likewise I don't see many rabbits in the BWCA. A deere?  That's what I want to deal with when I'm tired, lost & haven't eaten in days.  200# of not quite dead deere with hooves kicking.

I thought tired, hungry, haven't eaten in days and perhaps lost was what we were talking about? Anything caught in a snare other than a domesticated dog (used to being on a leash) will be as dead as a doornail by the time you show up. You just have to get the fire going :).

If a deer is to much then a beaver is easy to catch in a snare as well and I hear they are quite tasty although I have never tried one. Either of these critters are easier to catch than a bunny IMO.

You're likely right, but it's just so much fun to stomp bunnies!   :P

Ever since I got John Deere as a client I can't spell deer.

Yea, the mind picture of a tractor tangled in a piece of cable struggling to get free with you leaping down from out of a tree with a knife clenched in your teeth did cause me a chuckle I must admit.

What is fun to do with bunnies is to go out on a full moon snow blanketed night where its like daylight out and drive the fence rows of old country roads. The bunnies show up well enough and will often hold still long enough for a shot. My job was to race out and retrieve the next days dinner. It was not uncommon to get 4 or 5.  Reprehensible you say? Perhaps, but I was 12 and it was quality time with Dad :).

Cable snare and a deer?  

Just be my luck to wind up with one pissed off moose!   ;D

dd

mastertangler wrote on Nov 26^th, 2010 at 9:08pm:

Yea, the mind picture of a tractor tangled in a piece of cable struggling to get free with you leaping down from out of a tree with a knife clenched in your teeth did cause me a chuckle I must admit.

Quoting my farming friends; "Nothing runs like a Deere, and nothing smells like a John."  

I for one certainly could use spell check on this website.  But I certainly don't judge others for their spelling. :)

starwatcher

I have spellcheck here. Puts a rad line under things. Doesnt' help much. Your you're their there right. Here hear! Brain check could be helpful but we get it.

I've only seen one rabbit on trips but have seen squirrels up there constantly. They are small and probably dark meat too but probably taste good burnt.

I expect you could find and whack grouse with a stick but if you really really wanted to eat red meat, I'd recommend a little bottle of anise oil. As a kid, I'd use two drops on a piece of bread for trapping rabbits and squirrels and so I think it would be a fantastic bait for a deadfall trap. They love that stuff. Plus, I think it would be easier to notch out some figure fours or whatever than bother with snares.

I believe did see one show where Bear Grylls snared a skunk. It didn't die from being snared either. I believe he even ate it. At least that's what was inferred.

db wrote on Nov 27^th, 2010 at 8:22am:

I have spellcheck here.

Where can I access spellcheck?  I don't see it on the YaBBC tags.

Watching Bear is like watching the TV version of "Professional wresling;" It's all for show.

starwatcher

I have seen all the rabbitS that I have seen in the BWCA at night on the late autumn trips...all snowshoe hares. I never have seen them in summer to many people; maybe that is just a different style of getting the message to me. Dang, I wonder if THEY had enough tomato juice to wash off the snare wire? I wonder if slunk tastes like chicken? Squirrel, rabbit, and grouse sort of do in their own ways. How about a folding wrist rocket, or rubber tubing/rubber strapping in the kit...lord

starwatcher wrote on Nov 27^th, 2010 at 12:53pm:

Where can I access spellcheck?   Watching Bear is like watching the TV version of "Professional wresling;" It's all for show.

Since I use IE8 a lot, I've added spell check by virtue of a google tool bar.  Misspelled words are in red and underlined ... like this wresling

Bear Grylls?  The adrenaline junkie?  The person I admire most on THAT show is the camera man!

dd

Thakns! I like that!  (sincerely) :)

starwatcher

I got popped by a skunk once. I seen the green mist coming and dodged 90% of it. I headed straight to the grocery store to stock up on tomato juice (it really does work). It was too funny as each person in line insisted that I go to the front. :o

Db is likely onto something with the anise oil. That has the ring of something that would work very well. I'm not versed in the art of deadfalls though. I suppose if I did a really remote trip I would learn about it.

Quote:

Critters chewing their leg off is a myth. When the blood flow to the extremity stops, the limb becomes completely numb and in the process of biting the trap the toes are sometimes bitten off.

I mentioned the neck type snare as alternative to leg snare IF you were going to use a fishing line/ cord instead of a wire snare.
Q critter could chew thru a para-cord/fish line, if it could reach it.

I like the anise oil idea, combined with a neck snare. You could use a heavy dead branch rigged with a " trigger" stick, dead-fall style instead of a springy branch if that wasn't available.

I agree with Mad Mat, you can go along time without food. If you can stay warm and hydrated, that will keep you alive for a long time, especially if your staying in one spot. Having a 24/7 fire and some green boughs for signal smoke will help as well.

The majority of the world gets it's protein from insects. Kick over any rock/log and you'll find something to eat. Just hold your nose and swallow whole without chewing ;) Lack of protein will make you mentally disoriented, more than lack of carbs.

If nothing else, rigging snares/keeping the fire going, will keep your mind from wandering into the " negative" zone. Once you lose hope, your a goner :(

I downloaded this spell check Free.

  (You need to Login or Register

OK, putting two and two together (protein and snare) I'm thinking I could just set a snare on a portage trail ?

(that reminds me of this video)

  (You need to Login or Register

LOL...that one has spirit! ;D

[quote author=Mad_Mat link=1289304593/80#81 date=1291123486]OK, putting two and two together (protein and snare) I'm thinking I could just set a snare on a portage trail ?

(that reminds me of this video)

  (You need to Login or Register

HA! That was a hoot!...... snare+Portage trail=protein? You wise guy! :D

Mat I bet you could "make" your own runway by using a series of sticks planted into the ground. Set snares at either end and use anise oil that Db suggested in the middle of your "run" to get the rabbit to enter. Seems plausible. It would be good to experiment with these ideas first to see how they really work.

Another way to gather some food would be with a predator call and a wrist rocket. If you had access to stones and were a decent shot you could probably feed yourself for quite some time. Owls (yes owls) are the first creatures to show up and will commonly show up within 2 or 3 minutes of calling. Followed by various Jays. Foxes, coyotes, and wolves will also respond but are usually tougher to pull in close especially after they get a few years on them. I have never called in a bear but don't see why they wouldn't show.......a troubling downside.

If picture taking is more your style calling will pull owls in quite close and it doesn't take long. At the very least I would be packin bear spray though as who knows what will show.........which is of course part of the excitement.

mastertangler wrote on Dec 1^st, 2010 at 6:17pm:

predator call

Neat!

Googled and noticed there's all sorts of devices.  Any advice on what type & how to use or not use?  I'd be curious to include something like this in my kit.

Preacher wrote on Dec 1^st, 2010 at 6:55pm:

mastertangler wrote on Dec 1st, 2010 at 6:17pm: predator call Neat! Googled and noticed there's all sorts of devices.  Any advice on what type & how to use or not use?  I'd be curious to include something like this in my kit.

I've had some success using this   (You need to Login or Register, though not for calling squirrels. I've learned that calling squirrels is pretty much useless, you're better off just sitting still and being quiet. I'll give it another go when I get back home, now that it's coming up on their mating season it might help draw them in closer (bow with judo-tip arrows = great fun).

But, if you blow in the open end, it mimics a distress call; essentially turning it into a predator call. I got a rise out of some coyotes in the backyard one night, just messing around, but they never came close enough for me to see them. Which was surprising, because our coyote population back home is leaning over the edge of being a problem. They're usually not hard to find.

I'm not sure if any of these calls would have their place in a ditch kit, given the limited space available. But it probably couldn't hurt, provided you have a way to secure an animal that's been lured in. I hunted with wrist rockets when I was a kid, and it's harder than it looks. Be prepared for lots of frustrating near-misses, and make sure the band is in good shape... don't let it break while aiming so it narrowly misses taking out your eye... we had the best luck with ball bearings and taconite pellets, and even some glass marbles "borrowed" from one of mom's fake plant vases. But small rocks work too.

There are lots of electronic predator calls out there, and I don't know anything about them other than they are illegal to use on some places. Which probably means they are effective.

Preacher wrote on Dec 1^st, 2010 at 6:55pm:

mastertangler wrote on Dec 1st, 2010 at 6:17pm: predator call Neat! Googled and noticed there's all sorts of devices.  Any advice on what type & how to use or not use?  I'd be curious to include something like this in my kit.

Preacher for you I would highly suggest the Baby house cat in distress call. That will land a full grown bobcat or lynx right in your lap ;D.

I'm kidding! Although they do have such a call and that is usually what is supposed to show up (It never worked for me). The teeny mouse squeaker is compact but I was always partial to the cottontail bunny in distress call. It has been quite some time since I have done any hunting though so I'm not really up on it like I used to be. Hunting just doesn't seem quite the same here in Florida than it did in Michigan.

Quote:

I've learned that calling squirrels is pretty much useless, you're better off just sitting still and being quiet.

Akula,

Here's a little trick an old timer showed me. Squirrels are like cats, incredibly curious but cautious too.
Often they'll come in close while your sitting still, but somehow will detect you and move around to the opposite side of the tree. They'll do it after a miss with .22 as well.

Take a shotgun shell, 20-12 gauge works the best. You want one loaded with bird-shot. Open the end and take out the wadding ,leaving only the BB's.  Close up the end, securing with duct tape/wax.

After a miss, or when they go to the other side of tree, you shake the shell gently, just enough so they can hear the rattle. They will more often than not, throw caution to the wind and stick their heads around to see what's making that weird sound.

Not sure how you would manage that with a bow and judo tip?
If you can figure out something, it will increase your odds dramatically  8-)

If you're looking for calories in a survival situation, I'd go for cambium long before I'd bother trying to set up snares (though I will admit my skills in that area are extremely limited).

Cambium (the layer between the wood and the bark in a tree) has lots of nutritional value, is everywhere, is easy to harvest (especially if you have a knife), and doesn't taste awful. It had been a staple food for native North Americans long before the white man came. (FWIW "Adirondack" means "bark-eater" in Iroquois, though in a derogatory sense). I was taught to go for birch or aspen, but I understand most species are quite satisfactory (eg white pine).

All that being said, food-gathering would be rather low on my list of priorities for a Altoid-tin-sized ditch kit. I would see hypothermia and first aid issues as much more serious risks, and would allocate my space accordingly.

solotripper,

I tend to refrain from shooting my expensive arrows into the treetops. But my .22 has been known to coax a few squirrels down from their perches. I just enjoy the extra trigger time with the bow, and the local PD frowns upon shooting irons within city limits... it used to be the edge of everything, but now there's suburbia where there used to be corn fields and CRP. So, if I want to shoot on our property, it's got to be with the bow, which is still legal. Not always successful, but legal.

I look forward to seeing how the snares pan out. I'll set some rabbit snares on the ground and make a lean-pole or two, both straight from the survival manuals with visual assistance from YouTube. There's a couple of oak stands that are promising territory... would I be out of line if I set a lean-pole on the bird feeder?  ;D

In a survival situation, why not just whack Chipmunks/squirrels with a stout stick?

Whack a chipmunk? You monster!

Slingshot, and we are all walking predator calls...purse you lips and make like a kiss and a cupped hand will create the curious inflection. ;)

mastertangler wrote on Nov 26^th, 2010 at 6:51pm:

I want to thank Akula for his recommendation on the seal pup elite fixed blade knife. Just got it today and I am tickled (that's Southern). I like everything about it as well as the nylon sheath. As per his experienced recommendation if you are looking for a strong knife that's perfectly sized to handle even larger tasks and is not overly heavy this really fits the bill.

I am liking this knife more and more. The nylon sheath has a pocket on the outside about the size to fit a leatherman. I had thought to put a fire kit there but thought that would be redundant since I will have a more complete kit afixed to the rear of my PFD. Instead I have discovered that the pocket holds a bottle of Bens bug spray perfectly. A little tight but if you work it a while it slides in and out just fine. Velcro cover.

I don't know about you guys but I never seem to have bug spray when I need it. I always have to go dig it out. Or worse, your walking back on a portage trail and your winged enemy has gathered in your exhaust from the first trip. Now, I'll always have it on me without even knowing it. [smiley=thumbup.gif]

masterangler,

Glad you like it. I break more knives than I end up keeping, so the fact that I reccommend it at all is a testament to its durability. The only other knife I can recommend in good conscience is my Leatherman. Never leave home without it.