This year in Quetico will be slightly different experience. Since high school and then moving forward my group have always had 6 people. Thus larger food packs and more gear but there was also more backs to spread the gear around. Well this year I will be a part of lonely group of 2. We are going for 11 days and we would like to continue to single portage.
I know many people travel regularly travel in groups of 2. What is your set up? What we where considering is taking 2 packs Duluth style packs. 1 pack mainly for our personal gear, ie sleeping bag, mat, clothes etc. 1 pack with our food and cooking gear. Then on the portage one would carry the canoe and the lighter pack, while the other gets the heavier pack, and fishing poles.
What I suspect/fear is that we will simply not be able to get all the food in one pack, without packing extremely light.

Geez, 11 days, single portage. A wee bit to much weight IMO. Not only does the fun factor sound like it might be reduced the "hurt" factor would rise.

Besides, with the lighter loads you are likely to breeze across as opposed to the big loads where you will likely be having to set stuff down before getting all the way. Thus probably not saving as much time as you think.

I typically run a fishing line (often pulling a deep crank with a big lip.....lots of drag on the boat) and I like to run the shoreline plus I always double on my portages and yet I still usually rack up a good day mileage wise.

Here's what I do to accomplish it.....I get up early, usually while it is still dark and eat and break camp and am often paddling while the mist is still on the water. That is a special time of day to be dipping a paddle trust me. All is still and quiet more often than not. This early start takes advantage of calm conditions when you can really roll 'cause as we all know it's gonna blow by 2. Then it is common for me to run late unless I'm worried about campsites. You can rack up some miles like this. I do like seeing new country. One bit of hard earned advice.....if you are a food stasher like me make sure you have a reflective marker to hang in the tree to mark your placement or else you may be "delayed". :P

Prouboy is right BTW, I'm not much fun around the campfire.  I'm usually in the sack shortly after dark if I'm not still fishing.

Can't speak to single portaging as we have never done it.  Have never felt the need.  But have more than 20 trips in a group of two, one as long as 22 days, several were in the 10-12 day range, and have never once thought to describe that condition as "lonely".   ;)

As Mastertangler points out, it is not that hard to make mileage if that is your goal.  Back "in the day" we did that.  We don't anymore, but we could once.

I've done several trips of 2 with a duration you suggest. My opinion: unless you eat tofu, single portaging will be pretty tough with the gear/food you will need. I'd recommend taking a little more time on the portages.

My group of two looks a little different, a father son gig-and the boy started at two. Single portaging just was not a possibility; and that is and was a good thing. The portage trail is a fine place to see the other half of what makes the canoe country so great, a gem; the land between the lakes and waterways. Since your group seems to have evolved a bit maybe the "goals" could too; 11 days of food and consumables seems a bit on the stout side to single...so do you know what the food pack is going to weigh yet....seems like the weight will make the answer to the question a no brainer. If eating "good" on the trip is a goal it will push you all hard away from the "single" endeavor. I could be done but it would have to be a primary goal, and a lot of other things will get pushed aside...just sayin'

After a few solo trips I found the thought of a large group (anything more than three) doesn't thrill me a bit. Also you realize the double portage is not that big of a deal. I like being able to do longer trips and seeing more... and sometimes seeing more is part of that second trip across the portage. Something I believe Marlin was saying... The only time I like to move a little faster is going into the BW to get past the crowds.

MT,
And others are right about getting an early jump on the day, and the wisdom of 2x portaging.

Your still a young dog, early 30's by your bio.
Assuming your in great shape, you have 2x choices the way I see it.
You can travel light, like some here do, without any camp comforts or special meals, or 2x portage and enjoy yourself a little more ;)

I don't know what your route is, or the degree of difficulty of the portages along the way. I do know that I've seen plenty of single portagers of all ages, either taking breaks half-way across tough portages, or coming into the end, so exhausted they needed a break to re-coup before paddling on.

I 2x portage, and my rest period is my walk back. I almost never stop on portage under load, as I'm light enough going 2x, that it's not exhausting for me.

Factor in the risk of falling/hurting you back under full load, and the loss of the " woods" time on the trip back, I'd say unless your a road runner and need/want the high mileage, you better off 2x tripping in most scenarios.

Someone here posted once about the time differential between 2x portaging without a break, and 1x under a good load. Seems to me the difference was so little and benefits so much better 2x portaging, it wasn't worth it, unless your going for the gusto everyday.

I trip with my now-19 year old son each summer, usually 8-11 days.  We could single portage since Ben's quite strong (6'2", 240 pounds, offensive tackle).  He can easily carry 120+ pounds across a portage, but he doesn't like to.  We like some creature comforts and fish quite a bit, so we usually have enough stuff to double portage fairly easily.  Sometimes, one of us will double and the other single if one of us feels particularly strong at the moment, or just too darn lazy to double it...

Your assumed load will be on the margin of single vs double portage requirement.  Both members need not double portage, only one.  If speed is your goal, have the single portager unload and load the canoe, while the other doubles.  When you land, the latter takes off immediately with a pack.  The former unloads and takes the canoe across, then loads the gear the already sitting there.  Since many portages are 20 minutes or less round trip, I think you will find the double portager returning with the 2nd pack as things are ready to shove off.  

-YB

Food for 2 people for 11 days should weigh ~25lbs.
Total kit for 2 people should weigh ~50lbs.

Lots of room for single portaging with a single 60-70lb pack and a 5 - 15lb daypack + 50lb canoe.

Another alternative is the 1.5 portage.
Buddy1 takes his pack all the way.  Heads back for the canoe with is waiting at the halfway point.
Buddy2 takes the canoe half the way.  Leaves it for Buddy1.  Heads back for his pack.

Preacher wrote on Feb 8^th, 2011 at 6:52pm:

Food for 2 people for 11 days should weigh ~25lbs. Total kit for 2 people should weigh ~50lbs. Lots of room for single portaging with a single 60-70lb pack and a 5 - 15lb daypack + 50lb canoe....

Holy s***.  Last trip we had about 130 pounds plus the canoe....we take waaaayy too much stuff!!   ;D  ;D

But oh do we enjoy our trips!!   :)

Quote:

Food for 2 people for 11 days should weigh ~25lbs. Total kit for 2 people should weigh ~50lbs.

:-?  If you substitute could for should, I'd agree.
Food Pack and Kit weight will vary wildly, depending on tripping style and amount of creature comforts desired.

If total weight is your main goal, then you can probably go even lighter if you desire. I'm thinking that after having 6 paddlers, even single portaging, your going to miss the gear you've become accustomed too ;)

It can be done.  I've done some trips of that length as a party of 2 single portaging much, of not all of the time with plenty of "luxuries" along for the ride.

Things to keep in mind:

The loading and unloading of heavy packs is almost more effort than the actual portaging.  Routes with frequent short portages will wear you out faster than routes with infrequent portages of nearly any length.

Your legs need to be in excellent shape to make it happen.  One word:  Stairmaster.  Build up to doing a solid 45 minutes at a time at reasonably high resistance.

Hand carry items need to be minimized.  You have only 1 person with free hands.  You'll need to strap rods and maybe paddles in the canoe.  Tackle must either go into the packs or into underseat bags.

Balance is important.  Anything you strap into the canoe must still allow the canoe to balance well.  You can experiment with where you lash in your paddles and rods (and which way the reels are facing) to acheive balance.  Get it right before you even leave your house.  If you use underseat bags for tackle, put them on too.  

A small daypack as a chest-pack or hand-carry item for the non-canoe-carrier may help.  It can contain whatever you need accessible while on the water.  It needs to be small enough that you can see over it if you choose to use if for a chest pack on easy trails.  It's gotta be hand-carry only for ankle-buster trails.  You need to be able to see your footing if the trail is rough.

If trails are short, double-carrying is faster than loading up for the single-carry.

On super-long trails, you'll probably need/want to build in some rest breaks.  I can single-carry a pretty obscene load for about 100 rods but then a 8-10 minute rest is in order.  On long carries, it's still faster than singling and the longer the portage the greater the time savings.

Don't plan overly ambitious days and if you find you may have bitten off more than you can chew for a day, stop early, especially if you're travelling again the next day.

If you like to fish as you travel, you'll have to pick your spots or you'll waste a ton of time lashing and unlashing rods and setting up to fish.  Long paddle stretches are great for fishing.  Route accordingly.

I agree legs are key.  

I'm a fan of doing squats to build/maintain my legs.  In addition, there is a weight machine I use where you sit, but it's like a squat in that your legs are pushing against flat panel that is attached via cables to weight.  I like this machine because I can work my calf muscles by pushing with the balls of my feet, or "tip toes" if you like.  

Snow_dog: thoughts?

prouboy

Yup, squats are also good.  You'll appreciate them when you have to negotiate ledges.  

However, a Stairmaster is the best simulation I've found for portaging a distance under a load.

Squats=power.  Stairmaster=endurance.

I do a stairmaster once a week for 3-4 months prior to a canoe trip.  The rest of the week, I run or use one of the other various hamster wheels at the club.

I like a low impact workout so I use the elliptical machine with high resistance at a pretty good clip for about 90 minutes each day - good for the heart/endurance and great for the legs (thighs and calves.)  I think its also important to build up the stomach muscles to protect your back so I also do plenty of crunch type exercises with weight as well.  I find that the older I get the more economical I have to be out there.  I really agree with Snow Dog that loading and unloading heavy packs is much more taxing than the actual portage.  Getting packs on and off and hoisting the canoe fluidly really makes the difference in how far and how long you can go.

For those who belong to a gym: 1) consider some of the classes in wright-lifting (called Group Power where I go) -- they provide an overall body workout; 2) consider yoga -- has been great for my balance, a critical need on rocky portage trails; 3) consider spin (cycle) classes -- builds both strength and endurance.

I also do the cycles, eliptical trainer, long walks, weights by myself. Fitness goes a long way to making a trip pleasant.

Thanks, for all the responses. This is just what I was looking for, we are already anticapating having to limit some of our luxary items. The change in group size will definitely force some changes in philosphy. Even though we have had our an outfitter comment that we where pack relatively light.

**Side Story**
A few years we exited through Mudro and came up a a friendly group from Tennessee. We portage carry our gear piled up our gear accross from the parking lot from their gear. To say their pile was more substantial than ours would be putting it kind. As we spoke they asked how long we where in and when responded that it had been 7 nights, their eyes widened as they had done a simple 4 day trip.
**End Side Story**

We routinely tie/wedge our paddles in the canoes so this should not be a problem. For those who tied poles into a canoe. Any tips or strategies? I have seen groups use 3 pvc tube that they tied, into the canoe.

Being relatively young still and thus stupid. We will probably attempt to begin our trip travelling as we always have. Our groups routinely double packed anyway, and canoe carries always had a pack. Granted we carried more personal packs and this year will be lugging all Duluth packs.  I normally carry a canoe and an internal frame accross a portage. This has never been a problem and I have never needed a break unless I got stuck and or the mud became a problem. (Yum Yum comes to mind)

Just have to love winter discussions about next summers trip.

Bungy Dealy Bob's (or whatever they are called) are great for fastening
paddles and rods to thwarts. I bought some shock cord and made longer ones for fastening life jackets under seats.

"Food for 2 people for 11 days should weigh ~25lbs.
Total kit for 2 people should weigh ~50lbs."

That seems to me to be a little on the light side for an 11 day trip - I pack ultralight, as light as anyone, and a lot lighter than most.  2008, Food for 2 for an 11 day Quetico trip was 29lbs; canoe weighed 39; that's 68 lbs out of a total of 147, so the rest of the gear, clothes, fishing stuff, whatever  had to weigh 79 lbs.  Carrying 75lbs apiece isn't too hard, though it would be about 50% of body weight, but we still double tripped most portages.  That's for an end of May early June trip when it snowed on the first day - you could get away with not carrying a set of spare clothes and camp shoes in summer, but I can't think of anything esle that could have been left behind, even for a summer trip.

on short portages especially, there just isn't that much time gained by single vs double tirpping - like others, I'd rather make up the time on the water, rather than punishing myself on the portages

The PVC pipe will work, so will those plastic golf tubes you can buy for a $1.

I paddle a SR 16 tandem back wards ( rental canoe) I keep 2 rods rigged. I Bungee Bob a tube under each side of the bow seat. Depending on rod length/ rod guide size, you might have to trim tube length accordingly.

I like 7' rods, so with the top 2' foot or so of the rod in tube, the handle is under my seat and Bungee Bobbed in place, either side of me.
I like the single tubes becasue they keep the rods separated and the guides protected, but the principal is the same no matter what size tube you use. With 2 paddlers, the bow guys tubes are under the stern seat and visa/versa for the stern guy.

On open trails, the rods are well protected, but if your bushwacking. or the trail is overgrown in places or full of dead-falls, you might want to use one of those nylon rod sleeves that will protect 90% of the rod/line from snagging up.

I'd work all this out at home before you hit the water. If it's your own canoe, I'd substitute some good heavy Tie/Wraps on the tube end. I think most people that try this type of set-up, are pleased with it, once they adapt for their gear requirements.

Strong legs and core (abs) are the key. Strong abs will protect your back when lifting. Exhale on the lift, suck in and keep your abs tight until your load is balanced.  Any of the exercises mentioned will do the trick. The tip about loading/unloading packs being as tiring as portaging sometimes is right on. There's nothing wrong with having your partner hoist the pack and you slip into the shoulder straps from a balanced/upright position. Then you do the same for him. Solo, I often set pack on bow plate of canoe/log/rock , then turn and slip into it.

I'd bet that more than a few paddlers have wrenched their backs/hips/shoulders, trying to lift a heavy pack, especially on uneven surfaces or from an awkward position. It makes NO sense to plan a great trip and then hurt yourself the first day out and suffer the rest of the trip. Same advice for portages. Don't let your ego write a check your ( * ) can't cash ;)

Quote:

The tip about loading/unloading packs being as tiring as portaging sometimes is right on.

I absolutely agree with this statement. Once the pack is on my back, it's just "put one foot in front of the other" 'til the end. But unloading and loading the packs kicks my arse every time, especially at bad landings.

We always double portage, or rather, the stronger go two times and the  tired go one time and rest.

This coming fall we've been talking about a trip that covers more territory and thus have been discussing getting down to single portage. But after reading this thread, and hearing all the valuable experience speak up ... I think I'm gonna push to nix that idea. I'd rather have more walking than heavier packs, and I'd rather have a few more comforts than take chance of being wet, being without some needed fishing gear, a camera or an ample supply of Kentucky bourbon.

-- kypaddler  

It must be just me as everyone else is in agreement........I've not noticed any undue fatigue lifting packs out of the boat or to much problem getting my pack mounted. Maybe I just never paid much attention to it....I dunno.

One tip that I find helpful is to loosen the arm straps, gather the excess strap while you mount up (so it's not prone to work its way under your main padded strap) and then it is a simple matter to pull on the excess strap to tighten everything up. I like a snug ride.  

If you lash the poles in the canoe below the gunnels you have the canoe to protect them. Just be careful when putting packs in and out.  No heave PVC pipe needed.

One more vote for the golf club tubes for rod protectors. I’ve just seen too many times when a pack is going in or out of the canoe when a section of the line or the rod tip itself gets snagged. The tube covers the most delicate part of the rod. One positioned in a convenient location for bow and stern positions. Drilled some holes thru the aluminum strip under the gunwale and used cable ties to hold them in place. Take the butt of the rod and hold it in place with a bungee dealy bob or a strip of Velcro for portaging; just rest in on a thwart when traveling from one fishing spot to the next. As far as weight, I’d be surprised if the entire setup weighs a half pound. Not like that nasty heavy PVC.
Certainly a matter of personal preference. This is a system my partner and I agreed upon (also co owners of the canoe). Another member of our tripping party was in attendance while we were doing the install and mildly ranting about how we were wasting our time; nobody needed such a foolish system. I checked; we were doing this on our canoe; not his, so I’m lost as to what the big deal was. Different strokes and all you know.
We did a two person trip. Portage routine was we would land, get the food pack onto his back and he would set off down the trail. I would finish unloading the canoe, load up, and meet him along the trail on his way back. By the time I got to the end, and got all the stuff that was already there back into the canoe, it was not long until he showed up with the balance of the gear. Actually went pretty smooth. Another benefit was the food pack was not left unattended for very long.

Since I use a rod sock (nylon sleeve) to protect my rods during transport (including tow to put-in), I'll generally keep the rods in the socks for long travel day, where I'm not expecting to do much fishing.  The sock is additional rod protection on portages, since I also tend to take 7' rods, so the tip is sometimes exposed out the far end of the golf tube.  

I even lashed the rod sock(s) alone into a borrowed canoe on one trip.  It wasn't quite as good as the golf tube (lost the largest guide on one rod), but neither of my rods got hung up on anything while portaging or loading/unloading.  (Its possible I snapped the eye off with the toe of my boot entering/exiting the canoe.)

dd

BTW:  I frequently use reel wraps for some of the same reasons.  At least you don't have the audible sound of the reel tapping the interior of the canoe as you walk down the portage.

Having primarily traveled in larger groups and single portaging for much of my tripping experience, I can honestly say that I understand your concern.  Trips of late have been with fewer people, 4 in 2 canoes and up to 3 in a single canoe.  Often we double portage at the beginning of the trip due to the food pack's weight, then are able to single portage for the last third of the trip.  Since I usually carry a canoe across first, I look at the second trip as a nice walk to see what I missed.

For 11 days, my food weight would be more like 45-50 lbs. for 2.  We don't bring that many fresh foods, but we like to eat well and don't bring much dehydrated stuff.  I would say that Preacher's weight quote of 25 lbs. is ultralight.  A Kondos or CCS food pack sould all of your food easily.  I suggest each person pack in own daypack/overnight style pack with room to put 1/2 of the shared gear.  That should result in an easy second carry.

Other than that, I'd suggest looking at cooking/crew gear that you usually bring and pare it down.  You might find that you don't need a large pot, or that it doesn't make sense to put cooked food from a pot into 2 bowls, etc.  Perhaps a dining fly is a luxury you can do without.

That is my favorite group size.  We have never done 11 days, but usually do 8 days and we always single portage.

We take two dry bags one Large size that holds tent, sleeping bags and mats, clothes, etc.

We use a mid-size bag that for all practical purposes is the camp kitchen.  It carries all the food and cooking gear.

In the boat, both seats have seat bags.  Seat bags contain rain gear, fishing tackle, first aid and other misc. stuff.

One person carries the canoe with paddles, fishing gear and pfd's secured in the boat.

The other person carries the big bag on the back and the small bag on the front.  

Works great for us!

I did a three person group once that was pretty much the same set-up, but the person with the solo boat also carried a small bag.

Have fun!