Do any of you have sons and/or daughters who have absolutely no interest in wilderness canoe tripping? I've got two teenage sons in this day and age of technology and video games, who have really no interest in fishing and roughing it in the canoe wilderness. It kind of makes me feel guilty about using my limited vacation time on such trips just to go without them. That's why I've only been back to Quetico one time in the last 17 years, having made 7 trips prior to them being born. I've just been kicking this quandry around a little, as I contemplate buying a new canoe in the not too distant future.

Did you bring them on canoe trips when they were younger?  Not that that would bring about interest in and of itself so just wondering.

Kids are kids and they will find their interests as they slog through life.  All 4 of my boys were in a canoe by the time they were 5 years old and 3 of them love it while one of them runs away when he see's the tent being set up on the lawn for waterproofing.  Similarily, only 2 of the 4 follow my sports passion for wrestling and none of them want anything to do with bagpiping.   :o

Leave the guilt at home brother.  Maybe someday they will find your pictures and maps and that spark to "see what's over there" might fire.  I do this a lot in my house - leave the maps out on the table on purpose and frame my pictures of big fish and hang them around the house.  They all ask about the pictures; what lure were you using, what lake, how big, etc...  I've made a lot of canoe camping converts (including my wife) by doing this.

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It kind of makes me feel guilty about using my limited vacation time

I should probably disqualify myself from responding becasue I don't have kids, but maybe I can give a " different" perspective, minus the emotions that you should/need to have for you loved ones.

One year as I was coming back to Beaverhouse landing, I saw a single canoe just starting out. I was looking like I had spent 12 days solo and when we passed each other. We slowed and exchanged pleasantries, or I should say the stern paddler, a young Dad in his early 30's maybe did, his son, maybe early teens was less than friendly.

He said they were headed for Jean and a week of base camping and that his son was less than enthused, but he thought some quality Father and Son time would " cure" that.

When they first approached, it was obvious the kid wasn't paddling at all, and that he was refusing to participate, letting his Dad who wasn't the greatest paddler, struggle to keep them going straight. The kid was busy playing his game boy, and what responses he made were disrespectful and vulgar.

I told him that it was an easy slog to Jean as the portages were short and fairly easy. I could tell he was relieved, the kid could of cared less.

I proceeded to the take-out and just felt so bad for the Father, not the kid. My parents introduced me to camping as part of the summertime family vacation. I took to it, so did my younger sister, my younger brother didn't like it so much ( other than the fishing part),  but we did what we were asked/told, and kept a civil tongue in our mouths. Later as we got to our teen years, we didn't have to go if we didn't want too.

Your kids our old enough to make their own choices. Your time in the Q/BWCA is limited based on how long you can stay health enough to go.

I understand sacrificing for your kids, if you can't do that, you shouldn't be a parent. I draw the line and I think parents should too, when the " kids" in question are doing all the " taking" and none of the " giving" :(  In my mind you shouldn't feel guilty at all. If your being a good Father and you need some wilderness time, then either your kids should " humor" the old man and go along, or let you know that it's okay and not to feel guilty, you have a right to a " life" also.

I could see you feeling guilty IF you had been going every year the last 17, but you went 1 time, I think every other year would be a " fair and equitable" solution. Even then, there's no guarantee your teen sons will want to do anything with you if you don't go.

My friends with teens are mostly chauffeurs and ATM's. Once the kid gets their drivers license their just the people who pay the insurance and auto bills :-[

Although I went camping occasionally I did not start to camp a lot until I was around 30 years old and went on a couple Atikokan to Ely jaunts with my then widowed, 60 year old Dad.  The bug hit me then, I think I was old enough by then to have quit "running with the pack" of my peers.  Shortly after that I had my son and was home being Mom for about 10 years until he was old enough to be left with family and friends while I was gone for a week or so.  I finally got him on a 10 day trip when he graduated from high school, I took his two best buddies along too.  They were/are all techies and missed their computers a lot during the trip.  I think they had a good time in spite of it and now my son is glad to go for one or two trips a summer with me and sometimes one of his friends will come along too.  So I think there is still time for your kids to get the bug...

No kids, no real input on the matter.

The vast majority of adult trippers I know started as kids, before their teen years.  Most of them took a break during high school, the more urban their home the more likely to take a break.

Split your limited time.  Spend some of it tripping & some of it with the family.

I wouldn't blame the times.  Folks have been doing that since kids could get themselves to town.  How ya gonna keep 'em down on the farm, After they've seen Paree?

3 girls...all in the canoe before 10 yrs old.  15 yrs later, 2 hate any type of camping and 1 likes it a bit.  Wife tolerates it.  I'm the only one who loves it.  Been reduced to soloing.

I took my kids when they were pretty young... Three usually. They all would love it if they weren't so busy now. Being single I'm used to doing what I want now that my kids are on their own. (Well, one daughter lives with me but is doing her own thing). My delema is I have Grandkids and they live between 1000 and 1500 miles away. I plan on possibly seeing them in the off season. But until they are old enough to paddle, they will see little of me in the summer. My other daughter and family are planning on coming out after I get home from two back to back canoe trips. I may work six weeks then head out for another three weeks. I've got to start getting my fleet going to accomidate all these kids. I have a son getting married next year... possibly my daughter... They know they'll have to work it in between my trips.

We kept canoeing "just for the two of us" when our children were small.  We usually did a canoe trip every other year and our children stayed with our friends in Minneapolis who had children the same age.  I was a full-time mom and I justified this because I was raised to believe that time alone as spouses without the children was good for the health of the marriage relationship.  I still believe that, and I think, for us, it was true.

On the "off year" we tried to do a family vacation of some other sort, sometimes camping, sometimes not.  It would depend upon where we wanted to go and what we could afford.  

Then when our daughter was 8 we offered her a canoe trip of her own with the two of us, and she enjoyed a four-day trip in Algonquin PP.  When our son turned 8 we offered him a canoe trip of his own and he said he would prefer the time in Minneapolis with his friends.

One family trip when they were older teenagers was fun, and I thought perhaps we had planted a seed in both of them for canoe-tripping someday on their own.

Result?  Our daughter and her husband did a canoe trip in the BWCA once a few years ago.  It was a challenging trip, they enjoyed it, and I somehow don't think they will ever do another.  It was sort of "been there, done that."

Our son married a young lady from Delaware who rides horses and isn't an indoor person, but camping is not her "thing".  I sincerely doubt he will ever get her out in a canoe for more than a quick paddle on a small lake or stream.

You can always find reasons to feel guilty.  Why bother?  Your children will find their own interests and they may not parallel yours.  Or they may "discover" canoeing and camping on their own, and realize that they have that in common with you.  Take your trips while you can and share your experiences with them.  Enjoy.

Just two cents from an old lady.   ;)

Spartan2, as usual you've written from the heart very well.  Thx.

I have 2 college age boys and a 16-year old girl.  My wife of 22 years grew up in California and spent her youth with the family camping and hiking from San Diego up to Oregon.  When we first met, we camped as well and after the kids were born, took an annual trip to Parry Sound, Ontario.  But as Jennifer aged, she decided that was enough for her.  She's never had the desire to rough it on a canoe trip, but never hesitated to allow me to do so and take the kids each summer if they wanted to come.  So I canoed with each when they turned 5 and 6.  My daughter went only once, had an aversion to bad weather and bugs, and even today still has an aversion to bugs.  My two sons, on the other hand, have tripped with me each summer since, except for Ben who decided to spend last summer in Cancun with his buddies (go figure).  For me, canoeing with my boys is the single greatest pleasure I have each year.  I can't speak for them as they have many more other interests than me.  But I know they enjoy it or they would be doing something else with their limited summer time.

All in all, I am happy and content that each of my kids have their own unique passions and that we can still treasure the time we are actually together.

If they are not interested, they are not interested.  I would not push them.  Which will lead you to a tough decision: does all my vacation time have to be doing something that can include kids, or can I take some of that time just for me.  Tough call.

With my kids, we camped from the time they were infants.  Obviously an infant has no say in the matters.  I think that is important step in teaching ones kids to enjoy the outdoors.
If youy ar putting a teenager into an environment they have little experience in, I can see how they would be reluctant.  I mean it is a crazy idea, too anyone.  How can sleeping on the hard ground in a tiny tent, battling weather and insects, eating  less than gouremt food be enjoyable?  Hard to understand unless you have done it and come to realize  the food just tastes better while camping, watching a campfire is more entertaining than watching TV, etc, etc.

Not wanting to start any arguments, Azalea, but if I follow your reasoning, I would never have gone on a canoe trip myself to begin with!  I never camped as a child, my family stayed in motels when we traveled (and my mother demanded that they be nice ones, too!)  I had never slept in a tent in my life until Spartan1 decided that we should go on a "Wilderness Canoe Trip", just the two of us, at age 26.  I was terrified of bugs, was likely to scream if a spider came within ten feet of me, and actually did duck and squeal when dragonflies darted above us as we were paddling on our first sunny day on the Loon River.  I found them absolutely terrifying and Spartan1 had to assure me that they wouldn't bite!

It is admirable that you took your children on trips as infants, if that is what your family wanted to do.  But I don't buy the theory that it is an "important step in teaching kids to enjoy the outdoors", or at least that it is a necessary one.  Many kids go on their first outdoor adventure with a youth group or a scout group when they are in Junior High or High School, even college age, (as Spartan1 did) and the outdoor camping "bug" bites them then.   ;)

And, as others have already mentioned, sometimes you can do it through all of their childhood and they STILL decide that it isn't for them.  There is just no figuring out what will happen with that next generation.

Isn't parenthood wonderful?   ;D

And now we are starting to introduce our grandchildren to the BWCA.  I find myself wondering how that will end up in the long run, too.  

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I've been taking my twin boys to Canada on a fishing trip every year since they were 2, they are now 24. The trips in early years were with power boats and had us staying in cabins. They love to fish, especially for Northerns and Musky, and are now very good fishermen, much better than me. I took them on a canoe camping fishing trip when they were about 12. They hated it. Too much work. The last 4 or 5 years they have been coming with me on my yearly canoe trip, mainly motivated by fishing. Last year I went on a trip from Nym to Sturgeon with my son Dan, just the two of us. He caught the biggest fish of his life. He loved it, but not only for the fishing. He finally has gained an appeciation for the adventure, the solitude, the scenery and the the sense of satisfaction from being self sufficient. It was a great trip. Just be patient and let them come to it in there own time, and if they don't, love them just the same.

FWIW - all throughout my teenage years, the one thing that would guarantee my interest would be my father telling me no or simply that I wasn't capable, being foolish....

I always had an interest in hunting, fishing, camping ... my father did not. I was able eventually to talk him into taking me fishing a few times, graduating into twice a weekend for years culminating into family vacations spent fishing up north. Quite often, he'd make the tools we'd use or be working on someone's cabin (on his vacation) while I was out fishing. Being in a fishing sized boat was always a bit out of his comfort zone since couldn't swim but he did it anyway.

My interest in fishing began to wain once I actually figured out how to catch fish on a regular basis and stopped abruptly one day when a car horn blew. We were pulling into the driveway after a week up north and one of my friends drove by with girls in the car. DOH!

I discovered Q trips in college and I don't think I've fished locally before or since. I know he's never suggested we go fishing in 35+ years. He did enjoy it somewhat but there were things/priorites in his life that he enjoyed more than fishing. To him, fishing is an excuse to sit on your butt and waste time while claiming to be doing something of value. Kind of like how I feel when taking my daughter to hockey practice. At least she enjoys it. I'd even take her fishing if she asked.

Oh that's right, I did take her fishing once - up north, friends cabin. I fixed the screen door that didn't open right too.  ;D

Thank-you all very much for your replies. I thoroughly enjoyed them!

My kids are 9 and 11 and have grown up at the end of the Gunflint Trail.  My son fishes from the dock all day long and loves to go camping, fishing, canoeing, kayaking and boating while my daughter never wants to.  
Sometimes I drag her along and she whines and complains but other times she enjoys herself. Even if she is crabby or won't talk to me at least she isn't sitting in front of a computer or watching television and she can't stay mad forever.  The wilderness is a wonderful place for kids whether they realize it or not.
I love to take my solo trips too, or paddle and camp with just my husband.  When I get back from a trip I'm always a better parent and am more relaxed and appreciative of things.  
There's only going to be so many years I can paddle with them, so if I have to force them to come along with me a few times then I will.

Happy PAddling!

When my boy scout troop went on their annual camping trip and I had an appendectomy instead, when it was over my Dad decided, for the first time in his life, he would take me on a backpacking trip.  It was a disaster because neither of us knew what we were doing.  But it hooked me.  I had my own 3 kids backpacking, with their own little adjustable kid packs by when they were 4, 5, and 6.  Also fishing.  Also did a week's houseboat trip with them at Lake of the Woods, and my oldest turned out to be exuberant going after the walleyes.  Later, I took them on a canoe one-nighter; unfortunately my daughter fell in totally at the shoreline getting out of the boat.  Now they are in their 30s.  Daughter wants no part of the outdoors.  Oldest is a technical climber and fisherman and cyclist and hiker.  Youngest is a camping/hiking fanatic and involves his kids too.  Took two of my grandsons on a two-night canoe trip about a year and a half ago at ages 5 and 6.  They had a magnificent time.  And I suspect we'll be doing it a lot more if my back and legs will give me a few more years.  My son, stepson, and son-in-law are all excited about a tripe we're planning this summer to the Q for the 4 of us.  I'm stoked.  I used to go hiking backpacking regularly and only occasional canoeing.  But as the bones get creakier, the canoe is easier than the feet.  Bought me a whitewater canoe last week and joined up with a group of folks who want to explore Colorado rivers by canoe.  I think I've been blessed with a natural enthusiasm for all sorts of diverse activities, and there's enough variety so that all the kids and all the grandkids share some interest or other.  And I make sure that's nourished.  Once a year, near their birthday, I have a one-on-one date with each of them, doing something that they like.  Pro sporting events, camping, horseback riding, museum, concerts, theater, and quite a few others.  These are some of the best times, and I don't go along reluctantly, I have a blast doing the things they like; and then most of them are eager to put up with me on a hike or in a canoe.  Not a bad life for an old man.

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Not wanting to start any arguments, Azalea, but if I follow your reasoning, I would never have gone on a canoe trip myself to begin with!

That was not my reasoning.  One is more likely to engage in an activity one is comfortable with.  Thta does not mean kids growing up in the outdoors will love it when they get older.  And it does not mean kids who had no exposure to the outdoors will hate it as adults.

But be it camping, ballet, art, reading, or whatever, exposing that activty to a child makes it more likely they will also have an interest later in life (provided they are not FORCED into the activity -- boy did I hate dance lessons!!!).

"Bought me a whitewater canoe last week and joined up with a group of folks who want to explore Colorado rivers by canoe."

so Mountain, in case you haven't heard

bring that new boat out on the 19th of March- S Platte Evans to Kersey - annual multi-club group trip - anywhere from a dozen to 65 boats show up, depending on the weather

Was already planning to be there, with my son.  Look for a really dinged up old Dagger Caper, blue, being hauled around by a spry 70 year old and his 40 year old son, both of us in the 5'9" range, and introduce yourself, MM. Pray for warm weather, or better yet, no wind.  The water will be pretty cold this time of year; would prefer not to have to contend with a below-freezing chill factor also.
  Poor canoeists down in Florida--don't know what it means to have a real spring fling--the ice is gone; figure out where you put the insulated paddle gloves!  Time to be on the water again!

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Once a year, near their birthday, I have a one-on-one date with each of them, doing something that they like.  Pro sporting events, camping, horseback riding, museum, concerts, theater, and quite a few others.  These are some of the best times, and I don't go along reluctantly, I have a blast doing the things they like; and then most of them are eager to put up with me on a hike or in a canoe.  Not a bad life for an old man.

Dude, I want your life when I'm older (i.e. have grandkids).

"Not a bad life" indeed.

If every father and grandfather took such an interest, our crime rate, dropout rate, illegal drug use rate, welfare rate, etc. etc. would be sharply reduced.

-- kypaddler

I have an 8 year old great-niece with a burning desire for outdoor adventure. It started 5 years ago when we would go outside to turn over rocks to find bugs and worms. A month ago we dug out a quin-shee [snow cave] and it was my idea to get the camp stove and fix some hot chocolate, it was her idea to sleep out there. I am not sure what ignited her outdoor desires but do know I need to keep her fires stoked without smothering them. She talks of the day when she will be steering the canoe and taking me out on the river.

We had no children but always had youth around. I canoed in BWCA with two families for a number of years. They brought the girls and boys and the whole trip was catered to the kids. We would drive up at night so the kids never knew how long the drive was. Coolers with food they were used to so no suffering with food they did not like. Three portages to the same campsite each year for a while. The payoff came when the kids reached 10-12 and yearned for what lay beyond. One child did try it for a while and decided to stay home but the others still return.

It's getting tougher to introduce outdoor activities to kids in general, and national surveys show the trend.  This bodes poorly for future support of preserving wildlands and open spaces in the US.

There are SO MANY distractions for kids these days, and most folks live in urban/suburban areas where access to nature is sporadic, at best.  I see it in with my own relatives.

I have two teenaged boys, and they get to go on two or three canoe trips a year with me, but it's my older boy that has really gotten into the tripping mode.  I took him to Quetico last summer for a quick, 8-day paddle, which covered about 100 miles of water.  He ate it up, and became a portage machine, despite initial complaints about the trails being tougher than those in the BWCA.

Both boys are under the obligation of taking me canoe tripping when I get old.

I hope that everyone who loves wild places and has the opportunity to introduce kids to the joys of nature -- whether it be hunting, fishing, canoe tripping, or whatever--
takes the time to do so.

thinblueline wrote on Mar 1^st, 2011 at 3:14pm:

Do any of you have sons and/or daughters who have absolutely no interest in wilderness canoe tripping? I've got two teenage sons in this day and age of technology and video games, who have really no interest in fishing and roughing it in the canoe wilderness. It kind of makes me feel guilty about using my limited vacation time on such trips just to go without them. That's why I've only been back to Quetico one time in the last 17 years, having made 7 trips prior to them being born. I've just been kicking this quandry around a little, as I contemplate buying a new canoe in the not too distant future.

I know it's been said before in this thread, but I think the key is to get the kids out there earlier than later, before it becomes "uncool" to be dirty, while they'll still do almost anything you ask, and before they get hooked on all the distractions of our day.

I started taking my daughter when she was six.  (See picture.)   The other key, IMO, is to let them bring friends, especially during the teen years. Friends are EVERYTHING during those crazy years.  So my daughter always brought a pal with her.  Worked out great.  Now she's 22 and still loves to go with me.

But it's still a crap shoot.  My 31 year-old son, who I started taking when he was little, never really caught the fever.  When he was in his teens, he started going to the BWCA with  group of his H.S. buddies.  I was fine with that, figuring he'd come back some day.  Some day hasn't happened yet!  Now that he's married, I guess it might happen when he has little ones...if I stay healthy long enough!  

Most important, IMO, don't force them!  Quickest way to get resentment and backlash.  It's gotta be fun.  Think about letting them bring pals along, and lower your expectations...keep it short and simple.  

FWIW.

prouboy

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