I'm thinking about getting one of those round bear proof food containers with a harness.  Anybody used one.  Do you like it?

I Don't own one but I carried one once for another group on my trip back for the second trip on a portage and found it to be surprisingly easy/ comfortable to carry. It felt similar to a frame pack.

I own one and really like it.  Here are some random thoughts on the food barrel:

1. Don't make the mistake of thinking it's really bear-proof.  I call it bear resistant, in that it will take the bear a bit of time to tear it up....long enough for you to get up and chase it off.  

2. I try to manage odor by not using the lid as a cutting board, and by wiping it down every night with a handwipe.  

3. We also tie the barrel to a tree to keep a bear from carrying it off.  We set pots and pans on top as an alarm should something try messing with it.  

4. Don't leave it exposed to the hot sun...it works like an oven and will really cook.  Just cover it with cloth, or put it in shade seems to work.

5. The weak link is the lid.  Gotta make sure you get the lid on right!  I had a bear get into it on Polly Lake a number of years ago... because one of our group didn't put the lid on right and the bear just popped it off!  Getting the lid on can be a bit of a chore, but it's really no problem.  Just make sure the lid and barrel flanges are secured in the metal band when you tighten it.

6. We have found that using nylon sacks inside the barrel helps to organize the food.  So we have a breakfast, lunch, and dinner sack.  Way better than rummaging through it every time.  

7. I bought custom made sacks at 'copia last year thinking it would be a good help to organize the food.  Complete waste of money.  These things are just fabric "buckets" with no way to cinch up.  Save your money and just use nylon stuff sacks.  

All in all, it's a wonderful addition to my gear.

Enjoy.

prouboy

the typical 30 liter blue barrel is not bearproof

things like the "Bearikade" are, but are smaller and can be stuffed into packs instead of requireing a seperate harness

I was wondering what the product was in question. It certainly seems like it might help unless of course a bearski has scored on a blue barrel before and then it might be a disadvantage. My guess is they could destroy one inside a minute.

You guys know me, Mr. bear-O-phobia after my couple of run ins.

While the blue barrel might help lock in some odors, especially if it has a rubber gasket, I never underestimate a bears intelligence but especially its nose. I would still make every effort to go as odor free as possible even with the barrel. Remember, a bear is much like a dog and their world revolves around their nose. If they can't smell it, it most likely isn't there. The next time you come home watch and see what's the first thing your dog does. Even though you have come home 1000 times and they knows it's you, they will still smell you first thing to confirm it's really you.

I also question the ability to run a bear off that is intent on your food pack or in this case food barrel. Some you can chase off but others could care less how much you whoop and holler. Cliff Jacobs once tried to run one off throwing rocks. Big mistake. He says it almost had him for lunch and they left with the bear popping his teeth on shore. Now he just lets the bear amble about camp while quietly watching and once the bear is satisfied there is no food it usually leaves. Of course if a black bear shows any interest in you personally it's time to get assertive with whatever contingency plan you have and of course avoiding playing dead at all costs.......don't even think about it.

Blue barrels aren't bearproof.  Do a google image search on "ensign lake bear barrel" to see.

There are some reasonably bear proof food containers available.  None offer any guarantee that I know of.

In black bear country I wouldn't worry much.  Keep it clean.  Control smells.  Hang it.

Griz or polar bear country you may need better protection.

I got a couple Bear Vaults... Kind of pricey I know. But my experiance is there is a lack of good trees to hang your pack high enough. And some places... forget it, your not hangen nothing. I had a pack made by a friend and hope to employ this settup this year. I know there is a bear that can open the Bear Vault in New York I think, but chances are I'm good to go. Also, not as much room as a food barrel, but your going to pack lighter this way too. I'll let you all know how it works...

Ben

Quote:

I got a couple Bear Vaults... ... I'll let you all know how it works...

One of the problems with this is in all probability, no bear will attack your bear vault.  If you put your food in a paper bag, in all probability, you could go on many trips and never see a bear.  The only report that would be useful was if a bear not only went into your camp but also targeted your bear vault.  Not likely (hopefully).  I think all you can rely on is the reports from the makers and groups that test these things.  Thye have been subject to pretty strong tests are have been shown to be effective.

Another option uses a different stratgey: Ursack.  It is a sack made of a bear-proof material.  the advantages it has over something like a bear vault is it is much lighter and as emptied, takes up less space in your pack.  Not saying it is better, just an alternative.

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I have a bear vault (of course I do) and I like it very much. Since I stash and don't hang a little protection is a comfort. The other thing I really like about the vault is how it sets up my pack to begin the packing process.

The vault always goes in first. It anchors my pack and its rounded shape rides well next to my back. With my pack somewhat anchored and some structure assigned to it, it is an easy task to place the following item in next to it.

The rest of the pack loads itself while I drink one more cup of coffee and ponder the sky wondering what the day will bring.............

Yes, I am an odd sight to go tripping with. One eye looks upward all the time and the other eye looks straight ahead. By the end of the trip my hunchback is a bit more noticeable and with the crazed grin I have been told I resemble some sort of outdoor Igor (although I try and hide the limp).

People talk about using the blue barrels as bear proof for their food.  Can anyone post pictures of the blue barrels in the ranger station at Prairie Portage?

The manufacturer of the bear vaults won’t call them “bear-proof”, because when tested on some particular group of bears in upstate New York, they figured out how to get the lids off.  Those bears were really smart, retired wall-street investment brokers, I think.  The story of these bears is as interesting as this whole discussion on bears:
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Make sure you click on the third tab there.

Great discussion.  I may have mis-typed when I said "bear proof."  What I am looking at are these blue barrels that supposedly seal in the smell of the food in the barrel keeping the bears from looking for it, hence keeping them out of camp.  I am tired of hanging the food pack and knowing that 75% of the time the bears could get it anyway.
 
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Also, I read (I think on this site) a survey of what people do with their food.  One person replied that they slept with it.  I thought this was a joke, but who knows...maybe it is the easiest way to wake up and scare off a bear.  Not for me.

If the bear eats our food that means he is not eating us ;D

What next Bear Proof Tents and Sleeping Bags. Bottom line is if the Bear wants it he will get it.

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Really these Bears appreciated the nice burrito with a Nylon Tortilla Shell :o :o

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I looked at all the on-line ads and reviews and the photos on the blue barrels, the bearikade, the ursack, and the bear vault.  I think I'm going to get me a bear vault.  And stay away from those really smart bears in New York.  The bear vault is significantly cheaper than the bearikade.  The size of the bear vault is big enough to last a person quite a while if you are strictly oatmeal and freeze dry.  If you are going to bring mustard jars and apples--well, I recommend a camper and a drive-in campground.
  One of the advantages of the blue barrels is that if you use it to ice down your beer at a party back at home, the color will match the new blue labels on the Coors bottles.

Would you mind posting a link to the bear vault you mention.

dogjojo wrote on Mar 11^th, 2011 at 1:50pm:

Great discussion.  I may have mis-typed when I said "bear proof."  What I am looking at are these blue barrels that supposedly seal in the smell of the food in the barrel keeping the bears from looking for it, hence keeping them out of camp.  I am tired of hanging the food pack and knowing that 75% of the time the bears could get it anyway.     (You need to Login or Register

I knew what you were referring to.  My comments relate to the blue barrels.  (I painted my green, BYW)

prouboy

Is that a cooler of food setting outside the tent in the above picture?

This may be the bear Vault.
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MP is correct the Bear Vault seems to work as long as you stay away from the Red Version.  The Bears seem to like the color Red ;)

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I use a combination of hanging and bear canister storage. After some research I settled on the Garcia Machine Backpackers Cache.

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Pat

I found the following evaluation/review to be quite enlightening for me:

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Note it is a 2004 review, and I think they have modified the method of securing the top to the canister twice since then, so if you order a new one, it won't be exactly what is described in the article.

My vault acts as a food organizer and an additional odor barrier. I also like how it starts my packing process. It is effective against other critters as well. A bit of peace of mind but I still wouldn't let it have the effect of letting my guard down. The last thing I want is, vault or no vault, a bear getting interested in my chow. There is only bad things as a result. bad for you, and bad for the bear.

Since the vault isn't airtight it is not odor proof. A bears world is its nose. For that reason even with the vault I go odor free. I double ziplock my snickers bars.

I am not a fan of the aloksak. I got several and thought they were great until they got a little beat up and then they didn't work so well. You must have 100% confidence. I use nalgene wide mouthed canteens for food storage. Two 96 oz ones will fit inside a bear vault very nicely. These are practically indestructible and airtight and therefore odor tight. The screw on lid is foolproof and the wide mouth makes loading/unloading easy. All my oats go into these. They come in many different sizes and I find them ideal food storage containers. Tough, foolproof and odor free.
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So in the navigation bar over on the right side of this page, you have a link to a sequence of pages, "How to Hang a Food Pack."  Between two trees and all the rest.  

But then in a photo above, we see a bear hanging on the wire enjoying your kindness in putting so much food in one spot in order to make all his effort worthwhile. :-?

So my question is, if you do go to all the trouble of hanging it between trees, does it work?  Is your food safe?  In Q, is anyone aware of any time a bear or other critter got into a properly hung food stash?

And thanks, nctry_Ben, for the reminder earlier that you won't always have the right two trees.

I am concerned about bears for my trip in September; I would guess they are wanting to start the fattening up process for winter, and it sounds like some of these guys have gotten in the habit of checking us tourists out.  Several of you emphasize keeping your food away from the main part of your campsite--I would think you want also to keep it away from your canoe and your retreat opportunity.  Hmmm, can we paddle faster than a bear can swim--I mean if we're really scared?

Anyhow, back to my main question:  In the Q, is anyone aware of a bear or other critter getting into a properly hung food stash?   :question

MP, The lakes and campsites that have problem bears are usually the places that get concentrated visitation. Places near entry points where campers stack up are more likely to have habituated bears.

Basically you have 2 options. You can stash your food or hang it. If you hang it my advice is not to hang it where everybody else does, especially if it is a campsite with heavy use. I gave up on hanging long ago. The right trees that meet the proper criteria are to inconsistent to make me happy.

I took my cue from Cliff Jacobson who is a confirmed stasher. He hides his food out of the main campsite area. The trick with this is to be absolutely odor free. If they can't smell it they will walk right by every time.

If the thought of bears make you nervous read "Bear attacks, causes and avoidance" by Stephen Herrero. By the end you will be terrified ;). Some pretty rough experiences. But you will certainly be educated and  understand it is all about odors. And then of course there is the habituated bear which has learned which sites to visit and which trees they have gotten grub before.........

MT; I'm about to give up on hanging packs too.  After the historic wind storm that blew down a lot of trees; the last couple trips it seems harder to find a suitable tree.  On my last trip my efforts with hanging ropes pulled down a number of branches.  Lucky for us we go in October and there isn't much bear activity.  We mainly hang the packs to keep the mice out of the packs.  I'll probably use a combination in the future.

starwatcher

OK, I'm convinced.  Stash it.  And use the bear vault.  And keep it odor free.  And choose campsites that are away from big places of concentration.  Further, with four of us, if we each stash our vault in a different place, maybe he won't get all of them.

My goal here is not to lose my food for at least three days.  After that, I'm on a 6-day trip, I'm already heading home, and I won't have to cut the trip short.  

Thanks, MT, for the book ref.  I'll see if our local library has it.

starwatcher wrote on Mar 13^th, 2011 at 7:49pm:

We mainly hang the packs to keep the mice out of the packs.

Yes Starwatcher, as many of us know it isn't just bears we have to worry about. From thieving camp foxes at Isle Royale to chipmunks and mice just about everywhere else.

3 or 4 years ago we were in Algonquin in Oct (just spectacular) and we were on Tim lake doing a little lake trout trolling. We were making a pass near our island campsite and my partner commented on all the crows that seemed near our site. Sure enough they had drug several packages of granola/blueberries and milk out of a pack I had left open and had a field day. Fortunately we had plenty of grub but I was pretty surprised at them hopping inside a pack to pull out the foil packs and then pecking them open.

A few tidbits of advice on stashing. Avoid the lakeshore. A natural travel way for any animal including bears. Try and stash low keeping in mind that cool air sinks. If you stash on a hill by midnight or so the cool sinking air is likely to carry any scent downward.

You MUST be able to find your stashed food. Don't laugh! It's easier to forget where you stashed it than you think. Get tired, wander into the woods a little ways and slip it in a little hollowed out spot under some blowdown and by morning you might be a little forgetful. I "mark" my spot with a reflective runners strip. It's bright and reflective (in case I want to find my food in the dark) and is easy to velcro it to a limb above your food. I do suggest this procedure.

Lastly, if you stash you must be very particular with odors. One slip up and you can get hit. I got careless on Sawbill our last night out 20 minutes from the truck. High use area, very habituated bears and a snickers bar tossed in my food pack without any zip-lock protection. It was something to hear that bear crashing through the brush to get to my food pack. I had a false sense of security as I had a motion detector alarm with piercing siren and flashing strobe light. I figured any critter in its right mind would split when that thing went off. I couldn't of been more wrong. It deterred the bear for about 3 seconds. Just a slight pause and then rip, rip, munch, munch :P.

One last thought MP. I don't put my freeze dried in my vault. I just put it in a black stuff sack. I have never had anything bother my freeze dried food when it was by itself and stashed on the ground outside the camp area. Totally odor free. Not mice or chipmunks or bears or birds.

It was interesting to note the night we were clipped on Sawbill I had my freeze dried in with my regular food. The bear wouldn't eat any of the freeze dried. A single tooth puncture hole in each package was all I found. All the oats, granola and candy bars however were gone. Not so much as a flake left.

So my strategy is all the oats and bars go in the vault where there is at least some protection if a bear stumbles on it. I don't worry so much about the freeze dried and keep it separate especially since the packaging is absolutely air and odor tight. Unlikely the bear will find it (no odors), further unlikely he will identify it as food and then if he decides to try it will probably not eat it (based on previous encounter).......I didn't think it was that bad ;).

If your an oats man like me nothing works better than the nalgene canteen. The 96 oz fits  right inside the vault and it is easy to manipulate the bag to pour the food out. I know I have already suggested it but sometimes folk need to hear something more than once. Absolutely airtight/odor tight and extremely durable.

Thanks, MT, that is good to know.  That is GREAT to know.  Because a good % of our food, by volume, will be freeze dry.  Sounds like we pack similar food--except the Snickers.  Instead, I suck on a lot of hard candies when backpacking; I s'pose I'll do the same thing when canoeing.

The best way to hide smelly things like bacon & butter must be at the very edge of camp like this:
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Hey, never had a problem. ;)

I can remember only three occurrences where I've seen shredded FD bags. One was back in the woods near an old, shredded green pack. One by a campsite with BEAR spelled out in pebbles by the fireplace and one at the campsite where   (You need to Login or Register stopped to sniff my tackle box while being chased under my hanging pack. All were islands FWIW.

Bear proof canisters are small and expensive but if they fit your style, I see them as best for everyone's peace of mind.

Since there's four of you, I'd say two tree hanging would be the easiest. Even if you had terrible luck and camped where an habituated acrobat type bear frequented, I expect the odds would be tipped in your favor.

Cliff's hiding method presumes hiding things well out of camp. What, 50 yards? 100 yards? Who's gonna drag their food that far away from camp? Does splitting it up into halves and hiding in two different directions double the chances of failure? :D

Have a plan. Consider it's weaknesses. The worst outcome would be educating a bear with two cubs to associate campsites with fast food buffets.

Oh sure, NOW i find it. Here's the best thread I can remember on the subject:
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As we all know there are lots of differing opinions on the subject of bears and food. Even among experts. I personally think Cliff makes a lot of sense on a great variety of subjects including bears. He does not stash his food a football field or even a half football field away but rather outside of the immediate camping area. Here is Cliffs take on bears. 35 years of stashing and has never been clipped is a good record.

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Wow; that really is a well-done article!  Those of you who haven't yet read it, should do so.  It's not long, 15 minutes max, and MT's link is a good one that takes you right to the top of the article.  Thanks, MT.

Now is the time for a disclaimer ;)

I suspect Cliff is scrupulous in attention to detail. A bears nose rivals a dogs and if they can smell it they will get your grounded food more easily than treed. Keep in mind that however you decide to odor proof your food it must also be able to take the abuse of the trail. Unprotected ziplocks are likely to burst. Another reason I like the vault.

Perhaps if you like to eat fresh the foods that have the most potential for causing trouble could be treed. I still like the idea of as odor free as possible but equally important, IMO, is not using "the bear tree" that everyone else uses.  

Mountain_Paddler wrote on Mar 12^th, 2011 at 3:47pm:

So my question is, if you do go to all the trouble of hanging it between trees, does it work?  Is your food safe?  In Q, is anyone aware of any time a bear or other critter got into a properly hung food stash? And thanks, nctry_Ben, for the reminder earlier that you won't always have the right two trees.

If the critter is properly motivated, yeah they might get into it.  I've never heard of this happening.  The key is to not hang it right at a branch or line strung between trees.  A few meters from the ground, a couple meters from the trunks, a couple meters from the throw-over.  That makes for a 6m throw or more.

Stinky foods should be well packaged.  Double zip-lock.

It's very rare that I can't find two trees.  Only one of the has to be high enough.  The other can be almost any old stump to help pull the bag away from the trunk.

dogjojo wrote on Mar 11^th, 2011 at 1:50pm:

Great discussion.  I may have mis-typed when I said "bear proof."  What I am looking at are these blue barrels that supposedly seal in the smell of the food in the barrel keeping the bears from looking for it, hence keeping them out of camp.  I am tired of hanging the food pack and knowing that 75% of the time the bears could get it anyway.     (You need to Login or Register Also, I read (I think on this site) a survey of what people do with their food.  One person replied that they slept with it.  I thought this was a joke, but who knows...maybe it is the easiest way to wake up and scare off a bear.  Not for me.

Those blue barrels aren't air-tight.  If they were you wouldn't be able to open them in the cool morning air.  Then, after you pack up and head out they'll want to pop open as the air inside heats up.  They have a little hole to allow them to breathe with the ambient temperature.  Not enough of a hole to warrant worries of water getting in except for condensation.

Only people with a deathwish keep food in their shelter.  There was a story years back about a kid who was dragged out of his tent by his ass.  That's the pocket that had the candy bar in it.

Preacher wrote on Mar 14^th, 2011 at 7:46pm:

Those blue barrels aren't air-tight.

Preacher, I disagree. The hole you're talking about is to tread a plastic tie wrap through so it lays across the seal. You need to do that if you ever take the barrel on a jet. Otherwise you find a very funny looking blue barrel at the baggage pick-up. There's no problem going up, air will escape OK, it's the descent.

I've been canoeing in the bwca and the Q for many, many years, two trips every summer.  At first I hung the food pack over a tree limb but a) you can get hurt trying to throw a line over a high branch becaus you need to attach a weight to the end of the line and that weight usually ends up being a rock that often comes very close to hitting you on the head at some point, and b) the frustration and effort of finding a place to hang the pack and getting the line over the branch, etc., wastes a lot of time and energy and puts me in a bad mood.
I have stashed the food pack in the woods like Clif Jacobson recommends and I've never had any problems.

Also, I never filter my water and I've never gotten sick.  I learned a guy working for one of the Ely outfitters who told me that he wasn't supposed to say anything about it, but none of the people working for the outfitter filtered thier water.

If anyone is interested it looks like Cliff will speak on the topic.  This is pulled from his website schedule:

March 19, 2011: Presenting "Bearproofing Your Camp" at the Farmington, Minnesota public library (1-2:30 pm).   (You need to Login or Register

How timely.  Thanks Cliff.

wrote on Mar 15^th, 2011 at 2:17pm:

Preacher wrote on Mar 14th, 2011 at 7:46pm: Those blue barrels aren't air-tight. Preacher, I disagree. The hole you're talking about is to tread a plastic tie wrap through so it lays across the seal. You need to do that if you ever take the barrel on a jet. Otherwise you find a very funny looking blue barrel at the baggage pick-up. There's no problem going up, air will escape OK, it's the descent.

That's a different hole or a different design.

The hole I'm talking about is near center on the lid of my barrel.  The inside part has a little plastic plug that allows air, but inhibits water.  It's not intended to have something else put through it.

Rocky wrote on Mar 15^th, 2011 at 7:05pm:

...a rock that often comes very close to hitting you on the head at some point

Really?  I suggest you move out of the way or let the rock pull line until it hits the ground.  This is something out of Home Alone?
A smaller line & a smaller rock would help.  Use the small line to pull up the rope.


Quote:

the frustration and effort of finding a place to hang the pack and getting the line over the branch, etc., wastes a lot of time and energy and puts me in a bad mood.

Sorry that you find it frustrating.  I find it a nice tromp around the campsite.  Getting the lay of the land.  Perhaps finding some berries.


Quote:

Also, I never filter my water and I've never gotten sick.  I learned a guy working for one of the Ely outfitters who told me that he wasn't supposed to say anything about it, but none of the people working for the outfitter filtered thier water.

I read a story of a guy who lived to be 100 years old and smoked two packs a day.
Then there's the one about the guy who jumped off the Empire State Building.  As he passed the 50th floor someone asked how's it going?  So far so good was the reply.
I don't always purify.  Only when I want to be sure of not getting sick.

Preacher wrote on Mar 16^th, 2011 at 4:48pm:

wrote on Mar 15th, 2011 at 2:17pm: Preacher wrote on Mar 14th, 2011 at 7:46pm: Those blue barrels aren't air-tight. Preacher, I disagree. The hole you're talking about is to tread a plastic tie wrap through so it lays across the seal. You need to do that if you ever take the barrel on a jet. Otherwise you find a very funny looking blue barrel at the baggage pick-up. There's no problem going up, air will escape OK, it's the descent. That's a different hole or a different design. The hole I'm talking about is near center on the lid of my barrel.  The inside part has a little plastic plug that allows air, but inhibits water.  It's not intended to have something else put through it.

P, You have a different lid than is common then. I've seen and used probably a dozen barrels owned by different people on several trips now in Cdn & US. Never saw one with a lid modified like yours.