I just bought my new stove yesterday, a MSR dragonfly. I also picked up a couple fuel bottles and was going to grab some white gas when I was stopped by a huge decision, MSR fuel or Coleman. The MSR "Super Fuel" is 12 dollars a quart, where the Coleman white gas is 12 dollars a gallon. This seems like a slam dunk but I need to know if there is a big difference. Don't get me wrong, I want the best for my new baby ( since I have no children or pets my gear and fishing tackle has become my babies) but I don't want break the bank either. I think it comes down to how clean is the fuel.

Let me know what you guys and gals use.

On a unrelated note...Be thankful our cars don't run on white gas at 12 dollars a gallon!!! :o

I'll have to double check the directions, but it seems like some of the lanterns I've purchased recently allow the use of plain gasoline vs. white gas.

starwatcher

I've only used Coleman fuel (white gas) in my MSR stoves (including dragonfly).  However, I always use a fine screen filter funnel to fill the fuel bottles.  

My guess is most clogs for MSR stoves are a consequence of contaminants on the pump while transporting or rigging to burn and not directly from the fuel source.  I really need to start carrying the pump in its own "clean" bag that is added to the other stove components for transport.

dd

Coleman makes it's own super fuel- runs about $5-6/ quart, main advantage is that the volume is closer to what you might need on a trip. I've had good luck with the regular Coleman fuel in my MSR stove with the exception of a very cold late fall trip- where a waxy deposition clogged my intake filter on the pump. I transport the pump inside the fuel bottle I'm using, seems like a good way to keep it clean.

where are you pricing that fuel ?

Wally World will sell you a gallon of Coleman fuel for a bit over $8 last time I looked, which was maybe two weeks ago

I doubt that there is any substantial difference between regualr Coleman fuel, and the higher priced stuff.  We used to just go to a gas station years ago to buy "white gas" in bulk for the lanterns - that always worked just fine.

Keeping the regular Coleman fuel in the gallon metal cans seems to be OK for a couple of years or more.  

I've always used the Coleman stove fuel in the gallon metal can.
I'm on the same 20+ year old Coleman Peak 1 multi-fuel stove and have never had a fuel problem.

I do use a fine mesh fuel filter when filling stove, and you should take in consideration how old your fuel is and where you live IF your filling from a metal can?

I live in MI, so condensation in metal fuel cans is a issue. Never store your metal fuel can on a concrete surface as you'll get condensation in the fuel eventually. Keep it on a shelf, or switch to plastic fuel cans.
I've used fuel that has been in storage for at least a couple of years, never a problem. I do add a few drops of fuel stabilizer to can if it's sitting in the outdoor shed over the winter, especially if it's in the gallon metal can.

Coleman also makes a Premium stove fuel that comes in a red plastic bottle. Quart/litter size? More expensive than the stuff in the can, BUT it is it's own fuel bottle, so you don't have to use other fuel cans to carry it, only one to attach to your particular stove of choice.

I think dd is right. I believe most contaminates come from the filling/fueling process, not from the original source. A little fine mesh lined fuel filter will take care of that.

Another good idea is to add a few drops/ cap full of auto carb cleaner to say a 1/4 bottle of fuel and let the stove run until it's empty. Do it before your first trip and maybe after your last one. Will clean out the sludge and keep your stove running great ;)

How quickly do you burn through your fuel?  How much fuel do you use each year?  Just like automobile maintenance (engine cleaner additives), the periodic use of the 4x more expensive fuel will help clean your stove and keep it in good order.

Well I don't have a fancy new stove, my stove is an old Optimus Primus stove that I've used for 25+ years.  I've never replaced anything on it and there is very little to clean.  It has it's limitations, but what a great piece of equipment.  

That being said, the only fuel I've every used in it is Coleman White Gas.  The last time i bought fuel, I did buy the premium Coleman Fuel only becase I use so little of it.  I just didn't want that much extra fuel sitting around.  

Nah, gas is gas. Use the cheap stuff if your stove is designed for it.

Camp stoves aren't Lamborghinis either. You don't need STP to keep the fuel injectors from getting plugged. If the needle valve ever does get plugged (probably from carbon) just clean it out with a needle. My Optimus has run for 25 years on gas-station gas just fine.

Quote:

Nah, gas is gas. Use the cheap stuff if your stove is designed for it.

Must be my day for respectfully disagreeing ;D
I worked building/piping gas stations for about 5 years after I got out of the Army. I also set and removed gas pumps and took them in to be re-conditioned and re-sold.

We serviced Mobil/ Texaco/Shell/ among others and also many independent dealers who bought their gas from the big boys wherever they could get their best price.

I can tell you as a fact, that depending on the additives, the internal plumbing of the gas pumps, and in turn your carb/fuel injectors can be significantly affected with buildup that will effect fuel economy/ fuel filter life and overall performance.

I don't know what the " cleanest" fuel is nowadays, but then, Texaco had the best gas period. You open up the vital of a gas pump, and it was a clean as could be, others would have varnish/sludge deposits that we would use a carb/injector type cleaner to clean when we re-conditioned them.

Another thing is that on a 20 thousand gallon underground fuel tank, especially metal, you would easily get 500 gallons of water from condensation from tank and gas lines running to gas islands. We regularly serviced gas stations and pumped the water out keeping it below the suction line that is about 6" or so off the bottom of tank for this reason. If you ever read about or had water in your gas from service station, it's becasue they didn't check and keep the water below that line. Tandem gas delivery trucks especially in cold climates will have significant water in them due to condensation which ends up in the underground storage tanks.

I if you've ever seen guys with the long wooden " ruler" checking the fuel level in the tanks, you might not be aware they put a gel on the end of stick that turns purple ( at least back then), which tell the operator that the water is getting high enouhg it needs to be pumped out.

You also get particulates in the gas from various sources. On your car, the in-line fuel filter deals with it. Ever cut into a old fuel filter? You'd be amazed what you might find. Cleaner the filter, better the quality of gas your using.

Depending on your stove, fuel quality may or may not be a problem. I guess experience will tell you if your stove runs well on the cheap stuff, but why find out the hard way, when a little TLC will eliminate all doubts ;)

I'm guessing on the newer " hi-tech" stoves that wring the most BTU'S out of the smallest amount of fuel, the purity of your fuel choice can make or break your cooking experience.

Adding some carb cleaner as I recommended may not make a difference in your stove of choice, but it won't hurt it either. Stoves are like people who gradually get out of shape. You don't even realize how your performance is affected until you go up against a " fit" model ;)

Dad worked for Esso, 40 years.  

All gas is not equal and one does not require a high performance rig to be affected by cheap gas.  
One does not have to always use the expensive stuff, but an occasional run through of the expensive stuff will have an effect.

To further the analogy, I don't drive a Labourghini.  I drive a 10 year old Pontiac.  It failed a required emissions test.  I bought a mickey of engine cleaner (Guanteed Pass) and followed the instructions.  Passed the emissions test.

Gas degrades over time.  Last year's cheap fuel may cause more gunk to build up than a new can of cheap fuel.


The real answer here is to get a Trangia and avoid the whole issue completely.   ;)

As a chemical engineer with 35 years experience in the oil & gas business (including some refinery design), I am quite comfortable with my knowledge of gasoline chemistry.

All liquid fuels can get contaminated, with dirt, condensation, whatever. Camp stove fuel filters are light and cheap, and are a good idea regardless of which fuel you choose.

Still, the fuel requirements of a camp stove are not even close to those of an internal combustion engine, even one in a brand new 10-year old Pontiac. Camp stove fuel gets squeezed through a little hole (an easily cleanable hole) and burns at atmospheric conditions. That's all there is to it. There is no rocket science involved, no fancy fuel specs to meet, just the opportunity for someone to get you to part with your dollars faster than you would otherwise. (Sort of like selling tap water in plastic bottles - some people will pay for it).

A while ago, db suggested two litres (or so) would be enough for a two week trip. If you take two trips a year, and save $5 per quart by buying regular unleaded, then you can buy a new stove every five years with the savings. But of course your mileage may vary.

Thanks Joe,
So I can continue to use unleaded in my stove as I have done for 10 years.  Using about 4 quarts per year.  Oh, my stove is a 35 years old coleman two burner.  Kind of heavy and bulky, but works great.  We generally base camp so weight is less of an issue.  Any gas I don't use on a trip, I put in my van's tank.  Never a problem with old fuel.
Westwood

Correct me if I missed that someone might have mention the differences between regular unleaded gas and white gas. The biggest difference becomes apparent in really cold weather I'm talking about -0 and below, regular gas will tend to gels up more at these extreme temps then white gas.  I learned this the hard way while winter camping a few years back, coleman stove wouldn't light, chain saw wouldn't start bought fuel and chain saw had to be pre-warmed up in order to operate correctly. Don't ask me why I like camping out in that extreme low temps (record low of -37), fire starters won't even burn at that temp. I will only use white gas in my coleman stove and a little in the chain saw during winter camping trips.

Happy camping :)

//Windsailor

In the cozies thread, Preacher linked to Zen Stoves. Here's a page from the site on stove fuels if it helps.   (You need to Login or Register

On my last trip I was using three a (possibly four) year old gallon of Coleman. Maybe my stove needs some attention but I had to pump it a lot during cooking. I still have two pints left so I'm kinda hoping it was the stove.

For those who burn unleaded. Does it smell much?

db wrote on Mar 30^th, 2011 at 6:22am:

For those who burn unleaded. Does it smell much?

It depends on what your cooking.

"Coleman fuel has an octane rating of 50 to 55 and none of the additives found in modern gasoline.[2] It has a lower molecular weight than gasoline, kerosene and diesel fuel and cannot be used as a substitute for any of those fuels in modern engines.[2]

The flammability of Coleman Fuel is similar to gasoline; however, it should never be used in modern era gasoline engines. Its high heat of combustion and lack of octane boosting additives like tetra-ethyl lead will destroy engine valves, and its low octane rating would produce knocking.[2]"

reference [2] above = see below
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(see #2 for Coleman's opinion of hte different fuels)


depending on where you live, you likely get a slightly different blend of gas, and slightly different from each company - i.e. shell vs mobil vs conoco      ---   Here in Colorado, they use alchohol or MTBE for "winter" blends to keep the air cleaner - not sure if MTBE fumes would be particularly good for you, but I'd guess not (most stations use an alchohol mix)  - I would guess that California gas would be different yet with thier more stringent air quality requirements, but maybe not

I have one dual fuel Coleman stove, but I've never run gas station gas in it, always using Coleman Fuel instead, on the assumption that it is "cleaner"

I guess you could think that is just a marketing ploy if you like, or not

I had some trouble in cold weather with a White Gas stove. My local outfitter told me there's a bit of paraffin blended into the gas as a stabilizer. Said Mountainers regularly refrigerate their gas and strain out the paraffin with a coffee filter before cold weather camping trips.
Also said I could put my fuel bottle in my sleeping bag with me to keep it warm.

I haven't tried either yet. 2nd hand knowledge to me, but I thought interesting.

Windsailor:

Before I became a paper pusher/talker, I used to be a logger in northern Wisconsin.  While starting a chainsaw in the zero to 20 below range could take more time, once the saw was running I never heard of anyone having trouble with the gas, provided you didn't have water or some other impurity in the gas.  Plus cold weather may decrease your gas mileage, but again I never heard of anyone having trouble driving their motor vehicle in the below zero range.

I have no experience with Coleman fuel in cold weather.
Westwood

You make a lot of sence Mr W.
I always buy fresh gas before I go into the woods and it still won't start if its really cold -10 or lower; mined you M&M I only used a small portion of white gas along with mostly gas and oil mix, didn't seem to cause any long term damage though.

//Windsailor

There should be no high-molecular-weight paraffins in any kind of gasoline. (In chemical terms, propane is a paraffin, so I assume you mean solid wax, which is removed very early in the refining process.) If there were any wax solids in gasoline precipitating out at refrigerator temperatures, think what would happen to cars' fuel injectors when the temperature drops to -40. I have no idea where these stories come from.

Summer gasoline is formulated a little differently than winter gasoline: winter gas has a bit more of the volatile components to help it burn better in cold weather. But I doubt that will make much difference to camp stove use.

Probably the biggest thing affecting how easily gasoline will ignite is the number of "depressuring" cycles it goes through. If you store gasoline in a closed container, you've probably noticed that the pressure will build up. When the container is opened, the "pressure" escapes - that vapor contains more of the lighter (more volatile) components than the liquid that is left. Enough openings and closings and eventually most of the lighter ends will be gone and the remaining liquid might be a bit harder to ignite.

So it makes sense to dump unused unleaded into your car's gas tank and refill your Sigg bottles each trip with fresh stuff. Winter campers would automatically be using winter gasoline this way too.

If Coleman fuel claims to have more lighter ends than regular gasoline, then I'd expect you'd need a high-pressure jerry can to store it. After about the second time you opened the can, all of the lighter ends will have been boiled off and the liquid would have about the same composition as regular gasoline. So it sounds to me like just more marketing BS.

I'd forgotten about gasohol though - we don't have much of that around here, and I avoid it since (here) it costs the same per litre as 100% gasoline but contains less energy. (Each 10% of ethanol in the blend gives you 5% worse mileage). So avoid using gasohol in camp stoves.

Hope this helps.

I use coleman fuel in the gallon tin. I would suggest that many  of the problems folks run into come from contamination, dirt and what not that gets into the fuel tank. These things will happen, the thing to do is be familiar with how to work on your stove. Maybe carry some spare parts for field repairs and of course the tools that will fit your stove. Kind of a neat independent feeling "by dab, I can fix that!"
Best Wishes, Rob