I have a solo canoe that I have paddled a couple times a year.  I can get around, but I am no expert.  I have always used a J stroke and paddled on one side for a while, then switched to the other side.  Last Fall I got into some heavy head winds and started paddling 4 straight strokes per side and seemed to really make better progress.  I was able to keep up with the tandem I was traveling with.  I am wondering if I should ditch the J stroke in favor of the alternating straight power stroke.  I am just wondering how you all paddle your solos.    I am also curious about using a double bladed paddle with my solo.    Thanks

The only thing you should ditch is the idea that there is a right or wrong stroke.  Stroke whatever feels good and gets you there.  Me?  I now pry off the gunwales mostly.  I could give a rip that it's "novice" and lazy.

That's funny............I've done a fair amount of paddling but I know almost nothing about strokes.......I do seem to get around though. I do a straight power stroke in my solo and switch sides all day long. The carbon paddle makes it a breeze but I would like to be taught some other strokes.

You've done a "J" and are thinking about a straight stroke and I've done a straight stroke and am thinking about something else (not a "J" BTW which seems to diminish some forward power IMO.....or at least it seems that way in my solo).

I think a J stroke is more effective as a leisurely stroke, such as for trolling when fishing.  I use a very short J at the end of my stroke, just a little 1/4 flip at the end of the stroke as the paddle is coming out of the water for the next stroke.  It is also useful when paddling tandem and your front paddler is not quite as strong as you are.  Then I'll do it every second or third stroke just to maintain direction instead of ruddering to adjust.  The trick is to adjust often and not wait until the canoe is beginning to noticeably veer off course.
Now I exclusively kayak and use a double bladed paddle.  A kayak paddle allows you to take an extra power stroke (or 2 or 3) to adjust direction and not have to rudder at all.  I have found going back to a canoe paddle uses a whole different set of muscles than the double bladed paddle does.

First, let me say that I'm a solo canoe, rather than yak, paddler.

I think it also makes a difference as to which type of single-blade paddle you use.  My personal preference is a bent-shaft.  (I use a Bending Branches wooden model ... I just love the rebound spring effect when you put some power into your stroke!)  It could be me, but I feel that my choice makes some steering strokes more complicated.  So rather than worry about it, I do a lot of hit-and-switch paddling, typically 3 to 4 strokes per side.  Moving slower, I may use a modified J stroke or a pry stroke, but since the adjusting stroke kills some momentum I'll not do that if I'm trying to make time or paddling in windy conditions.

IC is right about a double-bladed paddle taking different muscles than a single-blade.  I seem to be able to paddle all day with little fatigue with a single-blade (because that is what I'm used to).  However, I've been in few situations (wind or current) when I'd liked to have used a double blade to maintain both power and direction.  I've felt a few times that if I missed a stroke in a cross-wind situation, I could be in REAL trouble.    However, the "orbital" shoulder rotation difference to use a double blade kills my right shoulder in just about an hour.  So, I've been working with a re-hab specialist for a few weeks to see if I can get beyond that.

In any case, I'd like to hear how folks content with narrow channels with a double blade.  I can envision some issues with paddling up Cutty Creek toward Baird that could get a little dicey because of the width of the channel.

BTW:  I've frequently taken a double blade as a back-up to my single blade, but rarely have used it.

dd

J stroke is probably the worst of the strokes for paddling a solo in the wind.  In short, you lose too much momentum making your correction, and if you lose too much momentum, the wind wins.  That's why you found "sit and switch" or "hit n' switch" or the "Minnesota Hut" as its alternatively called to be more effective - your stroke rate is higher and therefore, you maintain momentum better.  

But that is so inelegant - crude but effective, and I will resort to that if the wind is pushing me backwards or about to.

in quiet conditions, where you are just out for a slow cruise, a J is fine - you are coasting nicely between strokes and you have plenty of time to make the J work without losing much forward momentum
(without doing ruddering - that loses even more momentum)

I use a "C" stroke about 99% of the time.  It is a little bit of bow draw (to start your bow to the paddle side a little bit, changing into a forward stroke which tends to bush the boat the other direction, and ending with a little bit of J to bring the bow back to center.  In reality it looks more like this  -   (   - on the right side, not as exagerated as the C looks, and less of a J at the end.  I find it maintains momentum better than a J, and I can keep up a higher cadence.  I use it in my river boat, my WW boat and my lake boats.    I use straight shaft paddles - i don't like bent shaft for solo boats, and I stay on on one side for a while, then switch to the opposite side for the same length of time.  The stronger the wind, the more frequently I'll switch.

most people I paddle with use sit and switch with bent shaft paddles almost exclusively, but will switch to a straight shaft for more technical sections

padddling in headwinds, forward progress is best made by keeping the bow directly into the wind - the wind has less effect that way.  I do that even on rivers, taking the wind out of play, so I don't have to contend with both wind and current.  It also helps to trim a bit bow heavy, and that includes kneeling rather than sitting.

I suggest you try the C and see if it works better for you.  

Sit and switch works best in hard tracking boats - better in a lake boat with minimal rocker than in a river boat with 2" of rocker - the better the boat tracks straight, the more strokes per side you can get before you need to switch - generally that will be 3 to 5 strokes per side.

another stroke that is useful in headwinds is a sweep stroke at the bow - depending on your trim and your boat, it may be a more effective correction than a J, though it will also cost you momentul loss, but I think it is a quicker correction than the J, and that gets you back to a forward stroke quicker - that is useful for when the wind is shoving your bow around a lot, usually when the wind is shifting direction a lot.  I use that at times, when its hard to get the bow back into the wind, then go back to my C as quick as I can - sometimes, I will exaggerate the bow draw at the start of the C if I need more of a draw



edit:  if you decide to use sit n' switch, you will be better off with a bent shaft paddle, and you will want one a few inches shorter than your straight shaft

Thanks Mat

I actually think I already do a "C" stroke without realizing that's what it is. . I sorta like my bent shaft but picked up a straight shaft as my spare paddle/fishing paddle. My bent shaft kept wanting to blow away in the wind so I picked up a bending branches wooden model. I will give it a go as an all day paddle a few times to see how I like it. If I have to grab the wooden paddle out of mid air after I set it down on the gunnels like I have had to do several times with my Zav, then it might be a bit to blustery to be out. ;).

Quote:

In any case, I'd like to hear how folks content with narrow channels with a double blade.  I can envision some issues with paddling up Cutty Creek toward Baird that could get a little dicey because of the width of the channel

I'm almost exclusively a double paddle user, but bring a bentshaft for times the double paddle won't get the job done.
Slow trolling or just a leisurely paddle, I'll use the single and either a modified J like IC, or a C stroke like M_M recommends.

The year I went from Wolseley up Bearpelt creek, I used both paddles as conditions warranted. My double paddle is longer than you would use in a true solo. It's 9', longer as I'm paddling a tandem back wards. In narrow sections I used my single and in one section, stood and used the double paddle as a push pole rather than get out a wade. I've done the same thing numerous times on Jean Creek. Probably not advisable in a true narrow solo, but in a loaded tandem as long as you have a good center of balance, easier than you might think.
I use a " rolling" touring double paddle stroke, not a " windmill" type stroke you see kayakers use when racing/competing. I needed the extra length so I can keep shaft relatively level and not continually bang the gunnel's :-[
I think Wally is right on using what works for you and not get hung up on whether your doing it like the experts advise.
We all drive vehicles and are driving skills vary. I'd like to have the driving skills of a Mario Andretti, but I don't and still manage to get around and enjoy the ride ;)
The more you paddle, the more time you have to polish your skills and learn and practice the classic paddling strokes.
Most of us don't have that luxury, so we do the best we can with what we have.
I don't care what stroke or paddle you use, just don't be one of those paddlers that are heard before seen, becasue their banging the gunnel's/hull on every stroke, especially on Aluminum canoes ;D

wally wrote on Apr 17^th, 2011 at 2:12pm:

The only thing you should ditch is the idea that there is a right or wrong stroke.

I disagree.
Also suggest avoid 'right' vs. 'wrong' and replace with 'efficient' vs. 'inefficient'.

If your J isn't correcting, then you're likely doing it wrong.  Air Js are common.

Try a C stroke.  Simplified as half draw, half power, half J.

Paddling solo, regardless of the boat, there are only a few situations for switching sides.
1 - Wind.  It's more efficient to paddle the leeward side.  Let the wind handle the correction.
2 - Rest the muscles.  Each arm does different work.  Switching it up lets different muscles rest/work.
3 - Evasive manoevers.  More used for moving water, but fun to play on flat water.

The physics is fairly basic, simple Newtonian action/reaction.

I know all sorts of paddlers who know nothing about paddling.  Their paddles at a 45 to the water, blades flat to the headwind, air-J, no idea what a draw or pry is.  One can go far without learning how to paddle.  One can go further & faster & easier by taking the time to learn.

I'm one of those who was using the C stroke long before I ever heard of it.

Yak paddles make too much noise for my taste. My 3 minute trial with one got me wet enough to just say no thanks.

If you don't mind switching, switch. It's probably the most efficient, other than the switching part. I end up doing that if paddling into a hard wind or if I want to go fast. Going fast isn't efficient IMO, just more work.

A C as described works ok. So does feathering. If you have long arms and can get the blade under the boat there's much less correction needed. I can do that at a speed I consider efficient all day but if I try to push it speed wise, even a little, the back of the boat starts skidding out and I have to rudder it back. Remember it's called a paddle, not a rudder. Ruddering is for turning while slowing down like when you're coming up to a landing.

If I had a solo boat of my own, I swear I'd take out the seat and move a thwart to position the seat back as far as I could. Paddling at the middle of a canoe has always seemed dumb to me. I hate switching.

Thanks for all the comments and nice descriptions.  

If you can, make a little video of your paddling technique.  Don't worry too much about getting it 'right', more about demonstrating your usual technique.

Post it to   (You need to Login or Register

You'll get huge responses.  Some instructors & competitors on that site who love the nitty gritty.

That is a good idea.  I am not so interested on being critiqued as I am in just hearing what others do.  When you go to camp or whatever when you are a kid they always tell you to J stroke instead of switching sides or ruddering.  Of coarse the topic is tandem canoeing.  I guess in my mind I just thought you weren't supposed to do a lot of switching.  I know now that there is a time and place for just about every stroke.  

I suppose that just more time on the water will make everything more clear.  I wish, as do many others I suppose, I had many more days on the water than I do currently.  

It is interesting to see people paddle who have no experience or have never been taught the correct way to paddle.  They still get around and love canoe country.  They may be working harder, but still loving it.  I suppose that this is the beauty of the canoe.  It is so low tech that it is non-exclusive.  That is why you see everyone from kids to seniors, beginners to seasoned veterans enjoying paddling.  

I am no expert, at anything!

But in my relatively short life:

I have found that a paddle is not a water shovel but a bladed lever with the wet hand being the pull and the upper hand being the push.

Reaching for the keel line with the blade will get you closer to nirvana within the world of the j and c.

Feathering really does matter.

Water is more solid than it looks.

A kayak is not a canoe.

I like the canoe not futbol; so hut is not in my vocabulary, unless you are tired and starting to get misty.

Big blade surfaces stick better, and flutter is about the shape.

Kneeling has a lot of benefits when the going gets tough.

Well said marlin!

I tried a kayak paddle in my solo years ago and never went back. Part of it was an old injury that bothered me with a single blade. I find it best to train with a heavier paddle than I may use on a long trip. Many have trouble with getting wet while using a double paddle. My cure for that has been using a longer paddle with the blades in straight alignment. The long length allows keeping the paddle as level as possible so less water runs down the shaft and ends up in your lap. The blades in straight alignment allows water to flow to the bottom lip of the blade which becomes the drip point. This puts the drips back in the lake and not in your lap. A kayaking friend showed me how to use my torso and not my arms to power the paddle. This made long days enjoyable. On narrow streams the double paddle is pushed off the bank when things get too narrow. Since these narrow streams are seldom straight it works great for fighting the wind and current in the switchbacks. For regular lake and river travel I find I have no trouble maintaining my course. It is very easy to alter the strokes in power or number to keep on course in high waves and wind.

Marten

U bring up an interesting point. That is, from my perspective, the development of your own system based on your own style, parameters, and goals. In a nutshell there is an infinite amount of ways to skin the kitty, some are more sensible of course but practice (paddling in this case) gets ya closer to honing your own personal system of canoe travel to more positive place; wherever that occurrs.

I have tried the yak paddle...not for me...but that is me and my own personal style and drive. I double, and sometimes triple portage, but I was carring my boy to cut the daily mileage down for him he is starting to carry now. So those extra trips have now evolved into harder birding and wrapping my brain more accutely around the land.

Solo is a different kind of sollace for me. Something that I don't share; that is not to say I would trip with others, I like that too.

Anyone want to buy a kayak paddle?

Ideally, and you can get the idea paddling up a shallow streams, is that the paddle gets planted and the canoe is what moves. IMHO, the farther you get from the ideal - the less efficient your strokes are.

db wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2011 at 6:59pm:

Ideally, and you can get the idea paddling up a shallow streams, is that the paddle gets planted and the canoe is what moves. IMHO, the farther you get from the ideal - the less efficient your strokes are.

If I may add to that.
The better the paddle, the easier it is to feel when you're doing it right (or improving). It's intuitive, so just keep playing with your technique. I say improving, cause paddlers are always seeking a better stroke, nirvana.  8-)

This is a helpful thread, thanks to everyone for their input.  A couple years ago my sister rented a Bell solo with a lot of rocker (I forget the model name). I tried doing the Minnesota Switch but could not get tracking at all.  The C worked best for me, but it was still a learning curve (as it were).

Paddling a tandem is so intuitive for me, getting used to the solo without the offsetting stroke of a bowman on the other side is a challenge, but a fun one.  Double blades wear me out, so I'm going to stick with working on mastering the single blade in the solo.  Besides, to me it feels "right" to have a single blade in a canoe.

Quote:

Many have trouble with getting wet while using a double paddle.

If you use a double paddle, this item will help immeasurably with the drip problem if your paddles stroke lends to water running down the shaft.

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I have these, but a Google search shows many styles. I see one model that's made of silicone. Well worth the minimal cost/weight.

I just took my brandy-new, hot off the finishing cradles, cedar strip Merlin on its maiden cruise on a local river this morning.  My first paddle in a purpose built solo.  I have a sliding seat, and took along a 230 cm bent shaft yak paddle (because I have one!), and two bent-shaft paddles (52 and 56 cm).

Now ordinarily I'm a slow cadence deep-dipping, power stroker who uses an occasional light J to keep the pointy end pointed where want to go.  But this morning I learned some hard truths about a center seat solo canoe... particularly one that isn't loaded down with gear:

1)  Yep!  They handle just like tandems in the wind:  bow heavy up wind good, stern heavy bad (and vice versa for downwind)
2)  A standard yak paddle is WAY too short!  I gotta find a nice long one so I don't have to raise it to a steep angle just to reach the water.
3)  Drip rings are worthless when the paddle is so short and the angle so high that the ring comes inside the gunnels on each stroke... they just make sure that rivulet dumps right in your lap!
4)  A comfortable bent shaft used in the conventional sit & switch manner can get you 4-8 good strong strokes on one side before the bow starts swinging too much and a switch is needed.

No news in any of these observations, just confirmation that a new, long 'yak paddle is in my near future... and hopefully Woodland Caribou not long after that!

I found the same drip/wetness issues with a yak paddle in my Prism.  What length is usually sought after for a solo canoe?

wally wrote on May 31^st, 2011 at 4:04am:

I found the same drip/wetness issues with a yak paddle in my Prism.  What length is usually sought after for a solo canoe?

I suspect something of the 9 foot (270/274cm) persuasion would be about right.  (I also added a second set of drip rings to my rig (one set just above the paddle blade and a second set about a foot further up the shaft.

dd

mastertangler wrote on Apr 17^th, 2011 at 2:12pm:

I would like to be taught some other strokes.

Here's a repost of a link from another thread
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I like Bill Mason's instructional vids better than anything I've run across on u-tube, even if they are a bit dated.

J-strokes are harder with a bent shaft because the blade of the paddle is at the wrong angle for the stern pry unless you move it farther out from the boat. So prying off the gunwale (klunk ... klunk ... klunk) will not work, it has to be done with the shoulder muscles. A C stroke (added bow draw) makes things easier by shifting a bit of the course correction work to the start of the stroke from the end.

I guess I already c stroke without even knowing that's what it is ;D.

Next up for me is to go somewhere for a whitewater seminar. Right now I'm a chicken..........

Yep, the C is your friend.  

I also find that an inwater return makes for a nice easy correction.  Instructors I've spoken with often talk about having your paddle in the water.  The paddle's no good if it's not in the water.  You're much more stable this way.

Practice with the bent is key.  I have no problem with a J using my Grey Owl bent.  

Short strokes are more efficient & powerful.  Reach, stab the water, stacked hands, torso rotation, recover/correct as bottom hand passes the knee.

DentonDoc wrote on May 31^st, 2011 at 5:17am:

wally wrote on May 31st, 2011 at 4:04am: I found the same drip/wetness issues with a yak paddle in my Prism.  What length is usually sought after for a solo canoe? I suspect something of the 9 foot (270/274cm) persuasion would be about right.  (I also added a second set of drip rings to my rig (one set just above the paddle blade and a second set about a foot further up the shaft. dd

I use a 9ft Mohawk double paddle they advertised as being for canoes.
In a rented SR 16 tandem, paddling backward from the front seat, the paddle is just right. Not sure what a true solo width is, but probably pretty close to the dimensions I'm dealing with. I'd say a 9 ft would be a good place to start. I can do a rolling type cruising stroke that keeps me dry and is a good mix of power and economy of energy.

I'd put on drip rings in any case, can't hurt.