Sorry, I'm too lazy to figure out YouTube. My version of hanging the foodpack:
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Then, later of course, letting it down again:
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;D

Hey, I was windbound on a small island in a light drizzle and had to amuse myself somehow.

Here is a good example of how NOT TO hang a food pack. 
In the description below, the camper says that he normally stashed his food barell and was only using the rope to hang the current day's food - but when told of the approaching bears, he used the same rope to hang his barrel.

The rope must have been over some smaller branches or something, for the bear to be able to get that much slack into the system - also, running the rope above that rock, that was so convenient for the bear to use, to reach up and grab the rope was not a very good idea.  The only thing that really surprised me was that the bear had not yet learned to bite thru the rope - either that, or it was too tough to bite thru.  In any case, certainly not the perfect hanging technique.  Too bad for the "experiment", the bear wasn't able to get the barell to the ground so we could see if it was bearproof - looked to me like the bear couldn't get a grip on the barell the way it was hanging, and just got tired of standing up - likely headed down the lake to the next campsite looking for easier pickings.

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the vid you want is "Black Bear encounter on Knife Lake"

there is a link to this vid on CCR that included the following comments from the camper:


Andy and Marion,
A number of years ago I bought two of your 30L barrels for all of the canoe trips that I take into northern Minnesota, Canada and Alaska. They have worked wonderful over the years and I have never had any issues with animals until this year. We were in a campsite in the Boundary Waters Canoe area in northern Minnesota about dinnertime when a group of canoeists passed our site and told us that a sow and 3 cubs just left the next campsite over and were running along the shore straight towards our site. We were just about to eat so our barrel was sitting in camp. At lunch we had finished up the last of a small pack of food that we hung every night but we hadn't taken the foodpack rope down yet. So I thought a quick solution would be to hang the barrel (instead of take it back into the woods), get into the canoe and watch the bears pass on through our campsite. I have never hung a barrel but it seemed like the quickest solution. As you can see from the attached video the only thing that saved the remaining 5 days of our trip was the fact that we had our food in a barrel instead of a canvas pack. I posted this story to the internet and received many inquiries about the barrel so I included a pointer to your website in my responses. I think this video is a great testament to the advantage of barrels over canvas packs and if you would like to reference it to help market your product you have my full permission.

That is probably the best link I've seen on this or any of teh canoeing sites I check out.  Thanks.

I'm a " hanger ", but you could see myself becoming a " stash-er" under the right circumstances ;)
I have a question about the blue barrels?
I know their not really bear proof like the food vault types are. I also know you want to use a pin/clip to lock the steel rim ring securely in case a bear does find and investigate your stash.
My question concerns the bears ability to haul your barrel away from site, maybe somewhere you can follow and retrieve it.
I read that you shouldn't tie off your barrel, as that gives the bear the leverage to bite/maul it, much more than if it was rolling around. I get that.
I see the many of the blue barrels have two folding type handles on them. It seems to me that could be a weak link in the "system" that would allow a clever bear to be able to pin barrel down with his paw or carry it away very easily?
A little Googling and I found that Eureka makes some hi-vis orange barrels that have molded in handles that appear to remedy this problem IF it's even an issue :-/
Anyone have similar concerns or heard about such occurrences?

ST, If the molded handles help humans get their hands on it, I'm pretty sure bears could get their teeth on it too.

In my experience, no guide or outfitter I've ever been with has ever hung food. But then we were only traveling remote areas too.

IMO, If there's known nuisance bears roaming the area, you better be hanging food or find someplace else to trip. Bigger problem is what happens during the portage. Unless you can do a one pass portage, or have at least 3 people in your group, you have to drop your food and leave it at some point, or do people hang there food at each portage. Drop your food halfway maybe, to try and trick a smart old bear poaching the trailheads,  :-/

[edit] Unless you can do a one pass portage, or have at least 3 people in your group, you have to drop your food and leave it at some point, or do people hang there food at each portage. Drop your food halfway maybe, to try and trick a smart old bear poaching the trail heads,   [/edit]

I worry about that traveling solo, so to ease my mind I came up with my own personal bear alarm. I keep it in my tent at night just in case I get a night visitor and the usual shouting doesn't scare them away?
It's a personal security alarm the size of a deck of cards. Runs on 9v battery. When the cord/pin is pulled it sets off a high decibel alarm similar to a home fire alarm.
On portages, I tie the cord off to tree/branch and the alarm stays in zipped side pocket of food pack. Bear grabs/disturbs pack, alarm goes off.
I can't imagine a bear or any wild critter being able to take that sound? Of course if it were a smart OLD bear, they might be deaf ;D

I hear what you say about the molded handles. Maybe the difference wouldn't be enough.

There have been a couple of times I was concerned on a portage.  One was with bear tracks and blueberry bushes recently stripped of berries another was the long Cache lake portages.  I don’t like leaving my pack for a long time and on short portages that is not a problem on the other portages I leapfrog my gear across.

I'm lazy, now a stasher for 5 yrs.  S'pose when I have a bear, I'll be a hanger again

The thing that takes the longest to get done when hanging is getting the ropes over the correct tree limbs.  I have a small bag with string in it.  I put a rock in the bag and throw it over a limb then pull the rope over but I am a bad thrower so it takes several tries.  I have tried to use a sling shot to shoot the bag over a limb but that does not work nearly as well as I had envisioned it. Any one got any easy methods of getting the rope over that high limb that is partially blocked by a near by tree?
MagicPaddler

Magicpaddler, I like your idea of putting a rock in the bag. Will have to try that next year. 
This year I made a crude slingshot and it didn't work well-either- too much or too little so I went back to tying string around a rock and throwing it. ( and of course the string comes off at least once) .
In 2010 I went to Sawbill where I noticed the food pack up in the tree in front of Sawbill Outfitters hung using a pulley.  We tried that and it worked really well.  This year we rigged a 2 pulley system with one over the branch and the other at the food pack and it pulled up like it weighed 10 pounds.  That's my system from now on.  As I am only base camping now we only have to rig up once a trip.

Magicpaddler wrote on Oct 18^th, 2011 at 12:09pm:

. Any one got any easy methods of getting the rope over that high limb that is partially blocked by a near by tree? MagicPaddler

I find this works pretty well......just make sure you have enough line.
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Magicpaddler wrote on Oct 17^th, 2011 at 9:14pm:

There have been a couple of times I was concerned on a portage.  One was with bear tracks and blueberry bushes recently stripped of berries another was the long Cache lake portages.  I don’t like leaving my pack for a long time and on short portages that is not a problem on the other portages I leapfrog my gear across.

I thought of that too after posting yesterday. I already use that method on longer portages. It keeps you close to your gear for other good reasons too, water, rain gear, snacks...and I like spacing of the breaks.

Being unable to go on a trip for the last 4 years :'(, I've consoled myself with tweaking my pack hanging technique.
I've come up with a method that works at the local park ;D, and hopefully will in the bush.

I use a 3 pulley system. Monjon, if you like 2 pulleys, you'll love 3. A 90 lb food pack pulls like 30, even a child could do it.
Azalea gave me some advice that I've taken to heart. I throw 2 separate lines for my overhead horizontal line. My 3 pulleys ( sailing pulleys with bearings) are rigged in a triangle shape.
One of the pulleys clips with carabiner to the pack haul loop. I use 1/4 pull rope as smaller cuts your hand and heavier isn't needed.
On the 2 overhead line loops, I have a small stainless steel clip I bought at the hardware store on each end.
I use to use 1/4 rope for these lines, but decided I could save weight and still be strong enough by getting some of this 1/8 Dacron line they sell at Piragis and other places. Has the hand for tying say tent guy lines but is rated at 450# breaking strength. They came in 80 ft pieces. I took 2 -1/2"  x 6" wood dowels and drilled a 1/4 hole in one end, and cut a slot about 1/2 deep in the other end. Insert line in hole, secure and wrap cord around dowel, securing the tag end with stainless clip on the slotted end.
You now have your overhead lines. You could cut them shorter, but since they weigh practically nothing I figure I could use the extra line somewhere/sometime down the road.

I use to use the bag method. I even made a leather bag out of a old carpenter bag becasue the nylon sacks I started with would get worn from hitting the ground with my throwing rock in them.
I also noticed that a sack isn't very aerodynamic and if you need to make a accurate throw as MP mentioned, it could be frustrating as well as time consuming.

I came up with what I think is a better way. I took a tennis ball and drilled two 3/8" holes about 3-4" apart across the seams of the ball. I then used a razor knife to cut a slit between the 2 holes. The holes keep the slit from getting two big. When your done, you should be able to squeeze the ball and it will open wide at the slit, like one of those coin wallets people used to carry.
Directly across from center of slit, I drilled another hole,a 1/4 this time. I took a piece of Para-cord, made a loop in it about 1/2" long and ran that loop thru a 1/4' fender washer. Tie a couple of overhead knots on cord to keep it from pulling thru washer. Use a bit of stiff wire to pull loop thru hole in ball. You want just a big enough loop to tie a line to and not so much it can snag on limbs.

When you want to throw ball, you can tie your line to loop " lightly" I use just a simple overhand loop. If the ball should hang up, you want to able to pull the line free and let the ball drop free.
If you can't get the height or need more weight, you squeeze the ball and add some small rocks until you get what you need.
A ball is much easier to throw  and aerodynamic as well.
I clip my overhead line to loop on ball, pull some line loose and toss. Hold the dowel in your non-throwing hand so the line uncoils as it sails. I then do the same with the other line directly opposite.
The 2 clips attach to the 2 corner pulleys. I then clip the 3rd pulley to the food pack.
I used to hang back in center of the line, but this puts a big strain on the trees, especially if they're not very big. As long as the pack is far enough away from the trunk and high enough, you don't get the sag hanging your pack closer to whatever tree you choose. Azalea gets credit for this tip.
I pull the one line and when the pulley is about 8-10 feet away from trunk, I tie it off.
The opposite line I do the same. When you get the horizontal line parallel to ground, you can use the dowel to pull it as snug as possible and secure, I use a truckers hitch.
When I get done, the 2 corner pulleys are up in the air with the overhead line, the " tip" of the pyramid pulley is clipped to the pull loop of pack, and the pulling rope is ready for use.
I tie a loop in the pull rope, so it can't accidentally get pulled thru the pulleys.
With 2 separate overhead lines, your splitting the weight between each line, so you can use a lighter line as long as they're combined load rating is heavier than you pack.
With the #450 lb cord, I don't worry and have used just 1 line over a large limb and the 3 pulley rig to hang my pack.
This set-up gives you plenty of options, limited only by your ingenuity.
I'm guessing about 3# or so for entire set-up. I don't have a digital camera, but you can Google 3 pulley set-ups and get pics. The rest you can play with until you get it right.
Sounds complicated, but once rigged and used ( I'd set-up, fine tune at home), it's really very easy.
Of course your can just hide your pack and take your chances.
But if your looking for a set-up, this will give you some options.
Feel free to make it your own, I always do

Mastertangler
That will work do you have any problems crossing the border with that set up?  I was somewhat concerned about crossing the border with a slingshot when they ask if you have any weapons.

Here is a picture of my kit and where I bought the 2 blocks.  The blocks have bearings and roll easy. All of the rope is parachute cord. I have lifted 180lbs using the block and tackle but it was hanging from a beam in my garage. 
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On the video:
Looks to me like they had plenty of time to shoo the bears but wanted see the show. That's cool. But why did they stop filming before they walked away? Was it because once they realized that an expensive harness was probably now ruined they decided to shoo them before the non bear proof barrel became wrecked as well? Maybe the cubs got bored and mom went to round 'em up? Just wondering. The hanging job gave them plenty of time for action in any case.


I normally just take my chances on portages. In spring I'd always watch for Ravens. I do like ST's alarm idea though.


Magic- On tossing-  I've used tent poles with great success. One year I had shoulder problems and a borrowed tent that had only two poles. My tent had 4 poles. The borrowed one had two which I found didn't work so I was reduced to tossing underhand, which I can get much higher but with far less accuracy. At one campsite I became so frustrated after a half hour of on and off attempts that I ended up tying two 5' sticks together to poke it over the branch. Worked great!

You don't need a branch. All you really is a nub. The trunk is what you want to use to hold the weight. My preference is the ~1/2 - 1 sticks leftover after the rest of the branch has dried up and fallen off. They often seem to be the right height as well.

I use a bag for tossing.
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Thanks for posting that Azalea.
I've added a 3rd pulley but the basic set-up is the same.
I downloaded that pic, but forgot where I put it ;D
A picture is worth a 1000 words ;)

I'm a hanger.  There is no guaranteed method.  There are only tools & practices to make your food less attractive & more trouble than its worth.



Magicpaddler wrote on Oct 18^th, 2011 at 12:09pm:

Any one got any easy methods of getting the rope over that high limb that is partially blocked by a near by tree? MagicPaddler

Kite string and a rock.  Helps me with lots of hangs where the branch I need to reach is beyond my rope-throw range.  Also helps when there's a lot branches & needles to get through.  Once through just tie the main rope on and pull up.
I know of one guy who swears by a sling-shot & string.  Some places don't allow sling-shots, getting caught might not be worth it.

Don't tie anything to rope you're not willing to lose to the tree.

Carbiners are better than pullies imo, more versatile & a lot lighter & a lot stronger.

Not worried about portages.  The vast majority of bears run away at the first sign of people.  There's so much one can worry about, enough to ruin a trip.   :D

I've stashing my food pack in the woods for more than ten years and I've never had a problem with bears or mice.  I learned this from Cliff Jacobs and he's been stashing for a long time.  You save the weight of the rope and pulleys plus the time it takes to hang the pack.  Plus, I absolutely hated hanging the food pack, what a PITA trying to throw a rope over a high tree branch, even finding a decent branch is a pain.

I am a hanger and I've found that taking advantage of elevation differences on the ground means you often don't need to throw the rock on the rope over the highest brances.  I find a manageable branch to toss the line over near the top of a drop off.  With the pack on ground at the bottom of the drop off, I attach a second line.   Then I hoist the pack half to 3/4 of the height I intend for it to be.  Taking the second line, I simply walk down hill which pulls the pack away from the supporting tree, and higher into the air.  If necessary, I will throw the end of the second line over another tree, but usually can find sufficient "holes" in the on the granite shield to get it done without this.  My packs are always 12 feet off the ground and 6 feet from the nearest tree.  I have found this to be the easiest way to get a hang that makes me comfortable.

Clever idea.
Just shows there's always more than one way to skin that dang cat 8-)

What a moron!

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Excellent video. You know that guy?
coupled with "How to hang a food pack" on the right side there. nice.
db: if that's a block and tackle set up wouldn't 90# pack end up requiring 22.5# to pull?
Never mind...STs diagrams show 30# 

This is an excellent primer on how different pulley set-ups work.

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I use a 3 pulley set-up, so a 90# foodpack would take 30# of force to lift, which even the smallest person can generate if they simply grab end of rope and walk away with it like in video.

Small self-lubricating sailing pulleys are fairly cheap and once you use them, you'll never strain with a 1:1 set-up again. ;)

zski wrote on Mar 29^th, 2013 at 10:46am:

You know that guy?

Yup. All too well. I'm a dork ... and a seemingly old looking one at that. Didn't see that coming.

We've used that same setup for six people ten days with fresh vegies and a cooler so ~150+ works. It can get heavy so that's why I used the big ropes but my wife could easily raise and lower the pack when it was just the two of us.

No brainer for solos these days. Ain't no way I'm walking through the woods to hide in the dark after my nightly libations. After all that work, I might decide I deserve another and then I'd have to start rationing near the end of my trips! ;)

Quote:

It can get heavy so that's why I used the big ropes but my wife could easily raise and lower the pack when it was just the two of us.

Weight is always a consideration, but the haul rope if to small is hard on the hands unless you come up with another way to hold it.
I've rethought/worked my rig. I bought some of that Hi Viz Dacron line they sell for tent tie-outs.
Rated #450 lbs and is highly UV rated. Doesn't stretch as much as Paracord which important if you've ever hung a pack and woke up to find it much lower in AM than the night before. :o
It's 1/8 but hold knots well and even more important, the knots are easy to undue.
1/8 is to hard on your hands, even with gloves when lifting heavy loads, but that's easily remedied if you take a small stick, wrap cord around and walk away like the video shows.
Getting rid of that rope saves considerable weight.
Worth a try in a home test. If you don't like it, you can always cut it to tent/tarp guy lines. The Hi-Viz make them stand out at night so you don't trip on them. 8-)

It never ceases to amaze me that I've probably received as many PMs about this thread than there are posts to it.

Yes, I recently called myself a moron but that was because I had nothing better to do than shoot another video of myself hanging the pack. FWIW - what's up on youtube was the third take. Viewing the first, I noticed my butt was always facing camera - not good. I missed the second toss on the second take so what's shown was my third attempt I think - something like that. It's really not that hard. Anyway.

Today, I received two compliments I never expected. I haven't coiled rope since I asked my bowpaddler to show me what she was doing because her painter never tangled and it always annoyed me that mine did. In return I taught her how to tie a slip knot. I never imagined someone would learn anything about rope stuff but hey, if you see something you like and it works for you - enjoy. Any and everything is transferrable if it works for you but please no more PMs on this one. Post 'em here or elsewhere yourself or shut up and paddle. Fair enough?

;D and i thought I was the only one PMing you on this
;) check

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Not much of a plot.  Wasn't much character development either.  Maybe the book is better.