Ran across this on CCR:

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We saw the windup. There's the pitch!


Mad_Mat wrote on Oct 17^th, 2011 at 12:46pm:

As you can see from the attached video the only thing that saved the remaining 5 days of our trip was the fact that we had our food in a barrel instead of a canvas pack. I posted this story to the internet and received many inquiries about the barrel so I included a pointer to your website in my responses. I think this video is a great testament to the advantage of barrels over canvas packs and if you would like to reference it to help market your product you have my full permission.

I still want to see the end of the video btw.

I find people are looking for a single fail-safe guarantee on bearproofing.  That just doesn't exist.  Our best bet is to follow the same guidelines that have been around for years.  Keep a clean camp.  Control smells.  Make food difficult for critters to get to.

Some decide that a single failure invalidates the guidelines.  There are no guarantees.

Barrels can help, but there is no guarantee.  I've seen pictures of them ripped open.  I do hear that olive barrels & the titanium bear vault are the best protection.

I like the solutions they had out west. In Glacier they had a wire strung and at Mt Rainier they had a metal pole with hooks near the top. Of course these were group campsites and probably not applicable to canoe country. Usage seems somewhat down (especially in the Q) and perhaps bear/camper problems will lessen and not increase.

I've had 2 close encounters and it is certainly adrenaline promoting. I can see where it could be a substantial issue if your food gets clipped far from resupply. Education is key. "Bear attacks, causes and avoidance" is the book to read IMO. Very interesting. You will gain an enormous amount of insight into these highly intelligent inhabitants of the north woods. 

Was this already posted by Mad_Mat? Sorry 'bout that.

Bowron Lakes (Central B.C. grizzly country) has a sheet metal bear-proof locker at each campsite for you to put your food pack in - seems to work and (IMO) doesn't detract from the wilderness canoeing experience at all. (Once the campsite and outhouse are there, a dark green box in the bushes doesn't make any difference).

I think the takeaway from this vid is that once a bear learns that nylon packs have food in them, hanging - even really diligent hanging - will only be a minor deterrent. Barrels seemed to work in this case, but I wonder if the outcome would have been the same if the bear had learned that blue barrels have food in them too.

Keeping your camp clean and your food as odour-free as possible seems to be basic wilderness common sense.

master...
Glacier has poles/wire, and lockers in the treeless spots.  Of course they have a bit bigger and potentially nastier bear there, Although when a black attacks, it's often bad.  I was back at Hole-in-the-Wall, Brown's pass, and Bowman lake.  Watched a grizz chase a deer out onto the shore at far end of Bowman, about 200 yds from us....was sure glad we had our food up the pole.

Has there ever been a black mauling/killing in the BW?  Seems pretty rare.

"Has there ever been a black mauling/killing in the BW?  Seems pretty rare."

that lady doctor, maybe 4? or 5? years ago - I think that was in BWCA?

I was warned when I got my permit and by other campers coming out, and had read about this (?) problem bear family (sow with 3 cubs) in "bear reports" somewhere.  SHE has apparently become quite proficient and the cubs are getting a Master education from her.  I imagine they will be at it again in 2012 on the South Arm of Knife Lake.
For a bit more perspective...for the past 15 years (45+ week-long trips in BW and Q) I have not had a bear in camp.  Thank goodness!

wally wrote on Nov 1^st, 2011 at 4:08am:

Has there ever been a black mauling/killing in the BW?  Seems pretty rare.

It's exceedingly rare.  Stephen Herrero released a study recently, not BWQ specific.
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I don't have the details from previous discussions on this study, but as I recall the odds were <1%.

I do find black bear worries to be frequently exaggerated considering that it's very easy to mitigate the risks.

Anecdotally, I've only ever seen one bear in the wild.  20 years of tripping in Ontario.

Well rare or not it is still very disconcerting to have one snuffling mere inches from your arm with only some tent material between you. Trust me on this one, it will cause the hair on the back of your neck to rise.

In herreros book he describes a woman biologist alone and in the wild who was accosted by a black bear. The bear ate both her arms while she watched. Yes, gruesome. Fortunately she was able to get a message off with her one good arm before it was devoured. Fortunately help arrived. Unfortunately she lost both arms.

In Kesselheims book "Water and Sky" he has quite the time with bears and had to in fact kill one when it proved extra persistent on a portage trail.

There are lots of things in life that are statistically rare. It doesn't mean that I should dismiss them as a non-issue.

Boo!

---

mastertangler wrote on Nov 1^st, 2011 at 4:37pm:

There are lots of things in life that are statistically rare. It doesn't mean that I should dismiss them as a non-issue.

Yep.  There's rarely anything that should be treated by extremes in any direction.  Don't dismiss the concern.  Don't lose sleep over it either.  Just behave reasonably & don't put others at risk.

Agreed........

I can't help but laugh at myself now. I spent years on the trapline with all sorts of scents in my packbasket and never gave bears a second thought. Coyote gland lures and beaver castor up the wazoo. 10 hours a day for months at a time and never seen a bear in either Washington state or the U.P. of Michigan. Maybe it was because I was always on the move.......I dunno.

As my pals Maltese dad would say...."Ignorance is blist" ;D

I've seen well over a dozen bears in Q. I was on a real streak for a while there. Most were seen while out and about but two were very near and another two were in camp and had to be chased out. This gas bottle was their total take from me to date:
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Yet I always leave my gas bottle on the ground, just below my toothpaste, within easy reach. I figure either would dissuade them from looking any further.

My favorite sighting was this cinnamon one way up in a little tree. Header background picture on this page: (above the artwork)
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That was nearly ten years ago and I haven't seen one since. Don't see hardly any moose anymore either.

[quote author=mastertangler link=1320010375/12#12 date=1320169862]Agreed........

I can't help but laugh at myself now. I spent years on the trapline with all sorts of scents in my packbasket and never gave bears a second thought. Coyote gland lures and beaver castor up the wazoo. 10 hours a day for months at a time and never seen a bear in either Washington state or the U.P. of Michigan. Maybe it was because I was always on the move.......I dunno.[quote]

Or perhaps the bears were hibernating.  Helped my grampa check his traplines back in the ol' days.  Typically a late Nov-late March gig.  Then again, that was in northern WI, not the UP.  I recall seeing something from the WI DNR about bear numbers over the past couple years ::)

"I can't help but laugh at myself now. I spent years on the trapline with all sorts of scents in my packbasket and never gave bears a second thought."

don't worry MT, we'll all help to laugh at you.

trapping - ? generally a winter time activity when brer bear is asleep, no?

Mad_Mat wrote on Nov 2^nd, 2011 at 11:40am:

"I can't help but laugh at myself now. I spent years on the trapline with all sorts of scents in my packbasket and never gave bears a second thought." don't worry MT, we'll all help to laugh at you. trapping - ? generally a winter time activity when brer bear is asleep, no?

;D good one Mat............
Winter time is tough. 9 below and 2 feet of snow shut me down my last year in the U.P. of Michigan. Oct, Nov, Dec were my favorite months in the U.P.

In Washington you could go lower and stay running all winter although I did don some skis to try and catch Martin (with zero luck) in the higher elevations.

Without delving into the morality of trapping (I am torn and understand both sides) I can say without hesitation it was some of the best years of my life.

Here is a funny one........I was working at Mt. Rainier National Park as the night watchman during the winter and would run my line during the day (outside of the park of course). I had some coyote urine mailed to me. It arrived at the tiny post office inside Paradise Inn (Paradise Washington....A tourist mecca at Mt. Rainier) Unfortunately the parcel arrived slightly damaged and the odor permeated the lobby. They couldn't find me fast enough!! ;D 

12-13 trips in Quetico, have never seen a bear, except maybe one (a dark shape across North Bay that didn't quite saunter like a moose) back in the mid-90s. Trip friend of mine has been almost every year since the mid-70s, again all in Quetico, and has seen but one or two, from far away.

still, we do keep a clean camp and are watchful (tho we've gotten lazy and rarely hang our food packs, instead wrapping in sealed plastic bags, then in Tupperware and tightly strapped canvas packs under the canoes). 

-- kypaddler

But on a trip I didn't go (had a newborn), the group came across a mauled but still alive moose calf standing in a pond one year, bawling for help. they took pics and scrambled.

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wrapping in sealed plastic bags, then in Tupperware and tightly strapped canvas packs under the canoes).

:-/ I'm thinking that if your going to be a " Hider", you might want to stash the packs in the woods, not under a expensive canoe?
A smart bear might flip the canoe off to get the packs, a inexperienced one might decide to just paw their way into the prize.
Sorta like tearing up that old log to get to the grubs inside ;D
I believe someone here either had it happen to them or related it from another canoe site?
Bad enough to lose your food, even worse your "ride"  :'(

yep, under the canoe is the worst possible choice. Stash it in the woods off a trail (make sure you can find it again.....I use reflective velcro runners markers to mark the spot). If they don't smell it they won't find it.

Oh dear, if you're going to stash don't stash near anything you need.

It's never under MY canoe! (heh heh).

But y'all are absolutely correct, and I feel kind of stupid for bringing it up.

I've raised the point before and have been scoffed at -- i think the group is thinking rain and small animals much more likely than bears, which we never see. Camp pretty pristine, and we try to stay on islands anyway.

still, it would behoove me to raise more of a fuss.

--- sign me "Chagrined."

kypaddler wrote on Nov 3^rd, 2011 at 3:01pm:

It's never under MY canoe! (heh heh).

Just like you don't have to be the fastest runner in the group, just not the slowest!   :D

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we try to stay on islands anyway.

Not to pile it on ;D
But IF you've never seen a bear swim, you'd be in for a surprise.
I chased one that I caught in mid-lake once. I was just out of camera range and thought it would make a good shot.
I paddled as hard as I could for a 1/4 mile and couldn't narrow the distance.
Bears swim as well as they smell.
Pristine (clean) yes, Island campsites, not so much ;)

was he butterflying or breast-stroking?

;)

oh, my point was not that a bear can't get to an island but that water creates a natural distance barrier.

1 -- a bear is less likely ("less likely," not "absolutely unable and unwilling") to make the effort to cross that barrier without motivation, i.e. some food smells. As in, you're less likely to get an accidental visitor that happened to be in the neighborhood and decided to drop by.

2 -- that barrier creates distance that mitigates (again, we're talking percentages) the chance that weak food smells will reach the bear's nose. 

And yes, I know they smell great distance and travel great distance ... and I know that "educated" bears will cruise campsites. Of course, from all the chatter on this forum, my sense is that that happens more in BWCA than Quetico.

-- kypaddler

But shoot, I bet watching that bear swim WAS an eye-opening experience.

kyp,

I remember hearing/reading that if a aggressive bear came into your camp and you chose flight over fight, you should dive into the water rather than climb a tree, which we all know is foolish with black bear.
After seeing that bear swim ( bear/doggie paddle), I don't think the person suggesting that ever saw one swim ;D

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After seeing that bear swim ( bear/doggie paddle), I don't think the person suggesting that ever saw one swim

I have long wondered about this. As one with lot of experience in the water, doing something like fighting in the water is nothing like fighting on land.  Leverage is all different. This is not to say a bear woul not be effective but they might not have the same comfort level. So I would expect they would ned higher motiviation to go after a swimmer, a motivation that probably be lacking.

I also think although they migt be fast, they are less agile than a human in water. So a good swimmer might be able to outlast a bear.

All of this is pure speculation.

got a pic of one swimming in my report, I couldn't catch it.  I've seen more bears swimming to from islands in the Q over the years....

That gas bottle in the thread I linked to was bitten on an island. On the mainland, they have someplace to go. On an island, one could surmise that they may want to make their trip worthwhile.

The three encounters that were easily dealt with were on mainland. The island bear just wouldn't give up and so finally chased me off. I went to the nearest mainland to repack and have breakfast. I barely had the stove out and I look over at the island and that darn bear was getting in the water. He headed right towards me. So I pack up again, added a few nice throwing rocks and went out to greet him. He never changed direction so I moved a stones throw out of his path. I don't remember if I connected with any rocks but after he got out and shook off he looked back at me, made some sort of exasperated guttural sound, turned and ran into the woods. I assumed he was back on the trail of that cow and calf. I hope I made an impression on him.

Moose calve on little islands presumably to avoid bears but the blueberries aren't ripe yet that time of year. I was once told that Eden island (Quetico lake) Was about large enough to support a bear. One with cubs would need to supplement their diet with camper's food.

In any case if someone were to ask me where to camp based on minimizing unknown bear problems, I'd vote mainland over island any day.

db:

Can you recall how far from mainland that island was? How long did it take you to paddle over to the mainland that morning?

Your points are well taken (thank you) but I would think that the "safety" of an island is highly correlated to its distance from the nearest mainland.  I've been on some quite isolated islands in Q where I've felt completely "safe" from bears but maybe I've had a false sense of scurity.

On timberwolf lake in Algonquin park we set up on an island. In the morning my partner spotted a bear track and what looked to be a freshly raked tree. In the picture perfect morning sunshine it seemed innocent enough. I applauded my pals keen eye as the track wasn't at all obvious and then we went fishing.

Later that night as we locked eyes in the tent with the realization that a bear was just outside and knocking bags around and sniffing through our tent wall we understood that Mr. Bear was living on the island. That was one unforgettable night I tell you as we both expected Mr. Bear to enter our domicile.

Last fall in Georgian Bay country I watched one swim at least 1/4 mile gap of water with ease. I don't think water is a deterrent whatsoever. If they think some food might be found on an island in the way of waterfowl nests, baby moose or frying hamburger ;) they are coming.

As for worrying about them at night while your sleeping you might as well forget about it and go to sleep. With those big padded feet it is extremely likely you will never hear them. Rodents make more noise.   

azalea wrote on Nov 4^th, 2011 at 3:06am:

I also think although they migt be fast, they are less agile than a human in water. So a good swimmer might be able to outlast a bear. All of this is pure speculation.

Until hypothermia sets in.   :D

There isn't an animal out there that has any real problem with water.  Any that ever did either learned to deal with water or died off. 
I'm not a fan of island sites, unless the island is large.  They're little micro-environments and can be very sensitive.
In the rare event that you do have a bear problem, would you rather be locked on an island with the bear or have somewhere for either of you to get away to easily.

I agree with MT and Preacher...you aren't going to hear a bear coming and I doubt you could out swim a bear.  You MIGHT be able to out maneuver one in the water.  IMO that would be crazier than wading into a group of bears swinging a stout stick ... which many of you know is MY solution.
Encountering a persistent camp robbing bear is fairly rare and dealing with one that would actually be stalking and wanting to eat YOU is less likely than being hit by lightning.  ::)

intrepid_camper wrote on Nov 4^th, 2011 at 3:06pm:

IMO that would be crazier than wading into a group of bears swinging a stout stick ... which many of you know is MY solution.

Thumbs fit nicely into eye sockets, if you find yourself that close.

I try to use a 5 foot stick, trying to stay out of claws' reach ;D

Had the pleasure of working this summer at a location that was thick with bears- both blacks and browns (costal grizzlies). Bears use water for transportation- twice during the summer I saw black bears swimming across the lake where the distance shore to shore was close to two miles. The picture I posted earlier was of a very large brown that we named Phelps because he seemed to prefer swimming to walking- while other brown bears would take the path on the shore he nearly always chose to swim.

Phelps....

---

Let's assume for a moment that bears, like other large wildlife, will usually want to take the path of least resistance and prefer not to be uncomfortable. Ok, its about 80 degrees, black flies, deerflies and mosquitoes are swarming around, you weigh about 3-400lbs and you're wearing a 3" coat of dark fur. Wouldn't a nice looong swim feel really good?
I'm pretty sure bears do not consider a water crossing of any length to be an obstacle and probably relish the diversion during summer.

Phelps....weed will make you crazy

I should qualify my statement and say I would NEVER consider confronting a Grizzly or Polar bear with sticks and stones.  In fact, I would NEVER go camping where those kinds of bears exist.   :o

wally wrote on Nov 5^th, 2011 at 2:49pm:

Phelps....weed will make you crazy

Well mellow anyway. Let me sit in the kayak and watch for long periods of time.

intrepid_camper wrote on Nov 5^th, 2011 at 3:15pm:

I should qualify my statement and say I would NEVER consider confronting a Grizzly or Polar bear with sticks and stones.  In fact, I would NEVER go camping where those kinds of bears exist.   :o

Your decision, of course, but imo the Canadian Rockies is one of the most beautiful places on earth, certainly the equal of BW/Q. There are grizzlies here, and occasionally attacks and fatalities, but if you follow common sense precautions as discussed above, the risks are quite small.

Sure hope you reconsider! :D

Phoenix wrote on Nov 4^th, 2011 at 10:55am:

db: Can you recall how far from mainland that island was? How long did it take you to paddle over to the mainland that morning?

On islands in general:
X8 Batch. We stopped there for lunch once and we were all disheartened by the garbage strewn about. We picked it up and before we left I did one last pass to be sure no one forgot anything. Written in stones by the fireplace was the word "BEAR" in all caps.

1NZ Rawn. Ummm that's actually marked wrong and there are two campsites on that island. Anyway, found a shredded green pack and a mess of FD wrappers strolling that island one day. Years later I shouted a bear out of my nearby camp only to hear shouting from the island a few hours later.

Pickerel. One evening I spotted a bear swimming from the mainland above Wetasi (34H). You'd think he'd take the shortest route but noooo. He was headed for 1ES, which I don't believe is a campsite either but it's close to a nice one you couldn't miss. It was dusk and I lost sight of him in the island's dark reflection. It was time to head back to camp anyway.

Pickerel. Lookout or the one to the east I've seen ripped up rotten logs and dug up anthills that surprised me. Saw a frog in the middle of nowhere on Pickerel one day too FWIW.

To answer your question though, my buddy found me on Sturgeon near ZL. Those campsites don't look right to me either. I think there is another campsite to the west but (with a brass "in memory of" plaque) I was only there for the one night so....

I was a bit shaken plus I had a gas bottle with holes in it but I'm 99% sure I headed west to the mainland. I've paddled between the island and mainland to the north and it was a lot farther than that. Seems dumb looking at the map now but I'm almost certain I paddled west and not north. It was a ways. I repacked stuff and looked for baseball size rocks ... stuffed small branches in the holes ... duct tape was still useless all before I greeted him at his takeout. ;)

I ended up repacking at a site in Diversity Bay. I originally planned a day to explore that area but I ended up on Twin that night. He wouldn't leave me alone so a felt a little more distance was called for. It kind-of felt personal after a while.

FWIW - the first rock I threw at him was larger than a softball and as it rolled up to him he jumped up a tree to avoid it.

YMMAV.

Joe_Schmeaux wrote on Nov 5^th, 2011 at 11:43pm:

intrepid_camper wrote on Nov 5th, 2011 at 3:15pm: I should qualify my statement and say I would NEVER consider confronting a Grizzly or Polar bear with sticks and stones.  In fact, I would NEVER go camping where those kinds of bears exist.   :o Your decision, of course, but imo the Canadian Rockies is one of the most beautiful places on earth, certainly the equal of BW/Q. There are grizzlies here, and occasionally attacks and fatalities, but if you follow common sense precautions as discussed above, the risks are quite small. Sure hope you reconsider! :D

I'd have to agree.  I've hiked/backpacked the Rockies from as far north as Idaho and as far south as southwestern New Mexico.  Of course, you don't get grizzles over that entire span (mostly the northern 1/2) but black bears are very common all the way to New Mexico.

... AND, there is a lot of beautiful country in there!

dd

Wonder what the Pigami Creek fire will do to  bear concentrations in the BWCA area just north and east of the fire this spring? Will the fire have pushed a bunch of underfed/emotionally disturbed/wounded animals into that pocket of unburned forest? If everything dove into the water to escape the fire and then emerged to a landscape devoid of vegitation and many running obsticals,how will that effect the preditor/herbrivor thing this winter? Must have been a number of roasts laying/floating around for the scavingers. What came back for this stuff/...birds? 100,000 acres is a pretty large expanse ...

knafelc wrote on Nov 6^th, 2011 at 12:35pm:

Wonder what the Pigami Creek fire will do to  bear concentrations in the BWCA area just north and east of the fire this spring? Will the fire have pushed a bunch of underfed/emotionally disturbed/wounded animals into that pocket of unburned forest? If everything dove into the water to escape the fire and then emerged to a landscape devoid of vegitation and many running obsticals,how will that effect the preditor/herbrivor thing this winter? Must have been a number of roasts laying/floating around for the scavingers. What came back for this stuff/...birds? 100,000 acres is a pretty large expanse ...

Could be interesting.

Newly burned areas quickly become excellent forage areas after the fire.  I think it was Kevin Callan who explained this to me.  If you want to see wildlife, go where it burned out recently.  All those tasty new shoots.  Lots of berries grab hold on the fresh open spaces.

"Emotionally disturbed" has me thinking of a bear with a punk haircut & a chip on his shoulder, "Daddy never loved me!"   :D


So long as you take reasonable precautions, there isn't anywhere in North America you should be overly concerned about going to.  Sometimes reasonable precautions includes a gun.

I never go anywhere without the legal means to protect myself from 4 or 2 legged danger.
I think Bear Spray at the minimum is a prudent idea IF push comes to shove.
Where legal, I'd bring Bear Spray and a firearm.
A 12 gauge pump shotgun with a pistol grip handle, loaded with a mix of slugs/buckshot will come in at around 6lbs.
I could find a way to pare down other gear to fit that in especially if I was in Brown Bear country.
While the odds of getting attacked by a wild animal may be the same as getting hit and killed by lightning, IMHO opinion there is one big difference people don't take into account ;)
A fatal lightning strike, your dead before you hit the ground.
Bears will often maul you viciously and if you play dead as they recommend with Grizzly, they'll sometimes bury you in a shallow grave and comeback later to feed on you.
Whether they eat you now or later, dying by fang and claw isn't going to be a pain-free death, unless your " lucky" enough to die with the first bite or blow.
I think the old adage about expecting the best, being prepared for the worst fits here too.
In areas that don't legally allow firearms, I'd consider one of those light weight backpacking bear fences for around the tent at night.
Seems like many attacks happen around then and involve campers being dragged from their tents/sleeping bags.
Common sense and all the precautions mentioned are great but sometimes ***t happens.
When/if it does I'd like to have more than a big stick or pile of rocks, not that theres anything the matter with that :)

:-? A gun might be useful if you know you are being stalked by a bear but being dragged from your tent in the dark, wakened from your sleep  :-/  I think that scenario might be distracting enough to cause you to loose track of gun and bullets at just the crucial moment  :o

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I think that scenario might be distracting enough to cause you to loose track of gun and bullets at just the crucial moment

An unloaded gun is just a really expensive CLUB ;D
Worse case scenario. You awaken one night to a bear tearing into your tent and grabbing you in your sleeping bag intent on dragging you into the woods for a late night snack
Now that pile of rocks isn't going to do much good then, or that 5' club.
I keep my Bear Spray standing tall in my camp shoe near my side. Yes, the Bear Spray in a confined area is going to get me too, but I figure I have at least a small chance to hold my breath and close my eyes before unleashing it point blank into Yogi's face/eyes.
Better yet, I grab my LOADED pistol grip shotgun and put a slug into his brain pan/chest area. A magnum pistol with the right ammo would be even better at point blank range.
Next best after Gun, where legal or Bear Spray, is sinking my camp knife into it's eye socket or ear canal and hopefully into it's brain.
Not a pretty scenario but the getting eaten alive is a far worse one.
This year they had a couple of fatal bear attacks in the paper close to each other.
I didn't recall reading/hearing about whether or not they had Bear Spray or a firearm? I don't think they had either.
I always wonder what they must been thinking when they knew they were going to be attacked, probably killed?
Do you think they thought it was part of the risk/reward of going into the wilderness and so be it, or did they wish they had some Bear Spray or a firearm and at least a fighting chance.
I'll go with the Spray and Gun ;)

I start thinking gun if I were to enter polar bear country. Out of all the bears that is the one most likely to hunt you for food. 2nd on the list, surprisingly enough is black bears. Mamma Griz just wants to put you down until you stop moving (usually).

Any one carry a bear banger?  Are they leangle to carry and can you cross the border with one?

The bullets are always IN the gun!

I'm not sure what a bear banger is ,(explosive devise on a stick?) ,but does all this mean if I take "main  street" in the BWCA up to the more remote area north of Malberg I'll be more likely to have bear problems?  (...a 44 vaquero always helps me sleep where anything might threaten me...) (Yep,got rope .) 

here's a review knafelc...(it's slow, let it load)
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P.S., switch that Vaquero to a Redhawk, you'll need the quick followup of a double-action.

Those are neat. My interest is more as a signaling device though.

When a bear hit my motion detector alarm (pretty dang loud... as in hurt your ear loud) it had zero effect on my bear. He paused for about 3 seconds......never even ran a few steps away. The whole time he was munching my granola the alarm was going off. Probably woke every one up on Sawbill for 1/2 mile.

Like all creatures though bears are individuals and I suspect a goodly number might just head for the hills........but I have already seen it isn't for sure.

These might also work as extremely effective practical joke tools. "Time to wake up" ;D...........just sayin

I'm not sure you'd make it thru customs with a Bear Banger kit :-/
I'd check before trying.
With the security situation nowadays you don't know for sure what will or won't trigger a alarm.
Anything that has explosive properties for signaling or not, MIGHT set a overzealous border agent into action.
I bet you could use some braided fishing line and that Bear Banger IF legal to rig a tripwire to protect your food source or alert you to one outside your tent.
Like MT says, not all bears will respond the same to loud noises.
I have my personal bear alarm which I rig to protect a food pack on long portage but I see it as more of a warning device than something that will scare a bear away 100% of the time.
It would be great if it did but my go to item is the Bear Spray. Having a early warning so I can get it in hand especially if I'm in the tent is  a big plus in my book.

In Glacier I was so freaked out about the Grizzlies I rigged a trip wire all the way around my tent at night rigged to the motion detector alarm. I just had to remember it was out there in the middle of the night when I went to take a leak. Once a robin flew into the wire and set it off early in the morning (I had a big flock of them around the tent).

Not sure I would take that tack again. It certainly didn't deter my camp bear and who knows it could be counter productive. Maybe he/she would of just smelled around and left.

Pretty sure bangers & spray are restricted items.  Definitely check with customs first.

I'm not too surprised that a car-alarm type noise has less effect than a banger.  Bangers make a percussive sound that's a lot more startling.

From what I've read spray is the most effective option when there's actually a black bear to contend with.

Old Joke:  How do you tell the difference between black bear & grizzly bear poop?
Grizzly bear poop has bells in it and smells of pepper spray.

Yes, I can understand the percussion concept......good point.

Actually spray is quite effective against grizzlies as well. Effective over 90% of the time. The trick, however, is being able to pull it out and fire effectively in a mere matter of seconds. With Grizzlies it is common to find yourself in close proximity suddenly and unexpectedly which can initiate a charge. Very fast critters when they want to be. Another reason that spray might be a better option than a firearm except if the person is an expert marksman. There is just a small box to aim for if you want to put one down with a handgun.

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Another reason that spray might be a better option than a firearm except if the person is an expert marksman. There is just a small box to aim for if you want to put one down with a handgun.

I think even a person that's armed with a suitable handgun would be better advised using the Bear Spray first and resorting to the handgun as your last resort.
Killing something as large and powerful as a  Grizzly Bear is much different than stopping one dead in it's tracks once it's full of adrenaline and looking for blood. You might get away with it with a Black Bear unless it was one of those huge Alaskan varieties.
I've read stories of the Inuit hunters killing unsuspecting bears with .22 at close range with a single shot thru eye/ear into brain.
No hunting guide in his right mind would allow a client to attempt that.
Most guided want there clients to be able to hit a bear accurately and do the same with a back-up shot.
It's all about shot placement. Most guides carry guns that far exceed what it actually takes to kill a big bear. Some carry guns that would stop an elephant.
The reason is simple. If the client muffs the shot or panics they might only get 1 shot to stop the charge. You literally want a caliber that will knock a 500lb + animal over backward and allow for follow up shots.
Very few people have the experience and skills necessary to stop a charging Grizzly with a handgun.
A .44 magnum is more than most people can handle and even the venerable 30-30 Winchester has more foot lbs of energy than it does. Not many people would consider a 30-30 adequate protection in big bear country.
I'd spray them first, and resort to the 12 gauge/Magnum handgun if that failed to deter them for long.
The spray might disorientate them long enough for you to get a good shot to the head and maybe a follow up one?
About 2 shots and if the bear isn't down, your in for a world of hurt. Even a dying bear can kill you. That's where that double action that Wally mentioned comes in.
You try and fend their jaws off with you off hand and with the other ( gun hand) jam the muzzle in it's jaws and empty the cylinder.
If you don't see any obvious effect, you might want to save the last round for yourself :'(

In judging how much a bear could do after it was shot the only experience I have had is shooting deer.  I have shot several deer where on dressing them out I inspected the heart to find a 12 gauge slug went through the heart.  Every time I got a clean heart shot not hitting any bones other than ribs the deer does not die for a while.  I have had them run over 100 yds. before collapsing. I have had them walk over to a grassy area and lay down as if nothing was wrong.  The maximum time they live is maybe 5 minutes.  If they are running they will last less than 2 minutes. A bear could do a lot of damage in 2 minutes.

A handgun has one hell of a percussive effect as well.
If you pull it, empty that baby
I've seen several youtubes now where the grizz diverts it's charge after the muzzleblast.

Make sure you know which way the wind blows.

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Thanks, Solus. Appreciate the original reference - I hate having to rely on second-hand media reports of studies' supposed conclusions when half the time the statistics gets totally misrepresented.

Interesting..........what I took out of that was in 18% of the cases the bears had to be sprayed multiple times to discourage behavior. Might not want to "shoot the works" on that first blast.

I seen a vid on TV some time ago where a guy shot a blackie 3 times and it just krpt on coming after pausing to rub its eyes a few times. He was yelling and being aggressive just before each blast. That bear was determined to get him. (wrong color hat maybe ;) ) The camera guy was either armed, brave or stupid.

I haven't heard any comments from campers who take their dog along on trips.  Do the bears come into camp when a dog is there?

RE: Bear mortality/mentality after the Pagami fire...I have no idea, but agree that they do frequent the burns the next summer to forage.
When the bear population dropped off, 10-15 years ago, some researchers said it was due to a couple extra long winters which kept the bears in the dens so long that they starved to death.

I've heard that bears don't come near horses.  Not sure how much I believe that.

Dogs are an iffy situation.  Depends on the bear.  Depends on the dog.  I've heard anecdotes of dogs chasing bears away and dogs leading bears back to camp.

My favourite bear/dog story can be found on myccr, if it's still there.  Going back near a decade.  Samsman is the poster.  Sam is the dog.  Here's a quick synopsis, but the full read is much better.  Bear comes charging down the trail.  Sam (a bull terrier type dog less than 1 foot tall at the shoulder) charges the bear.  Bear attacks Sam.  Samsman attacks bear with a knife. 

Highlight to the yellow to see the outcome.  Better yet, track down the myccr thread and read the full account.  Bear dies.  Sam & man are ok.

When you talk about bear attacks you need to consider that the greatest percentage of them are just after your food, not you.
Same with Grizzly/Brown bear charges. Some are just bluffs. From what I understand in Alaska, you can't just kill a bear unless its within a certain distance and attack seems certain.
Bluff charges and bears looking for a easy meal can the majority of the time be discouraged by rocks/sticks/spray/loud noises etc.
However a small percentage of bears, usually young males are what they call " Rogue" bears.
Their very territorial and see YOU as the meal, not your food pack. They'll stalk and attack looking for a easy meal (you) :'(
If that's what's after you, you need to have the means to kill it or disorientate it enough you can make your escape. It becomes a case of you or them. I prefer it be them.

What does a " Rogue Bear" call a bald 270lb fat guy on a girls bike pedaling like the dickens?

A MEAL ON WHEELS ::) ;D

Jeez, after reading all this, I'm as bug-eyed as Bill Bryson reading his Bear Attacks book before going for a Walk in the Woods...  I think my closest calls were having throwsack rocks zing past my head, when I got em snagged in the limbs.

intrepid_camper wrote on Nov 9^th, 2011 at 2:26pm:

I haven't heard any comments from campers who take their dog along on trips.  Do the bears come into camp when a dog is there?

I've had three different dogs over the years that I would take on canoe trips. I've had bears in camp with one of them and as I chased the bear she would be there right with me... but never got ahead of me. The other two which includes my current dog, have never had to deal with camp bears and all three of them were with when I saw Moose and other wildlife. I've seen them all chase bears off at home too. I know there is always the risk of losing a dog out there, but the risk is there at home too... and not just to a wild animal. And btw, my dogs all never chased animals just to chase them... just away from our yard or space.