My last trip to the BW was in an Old Town Loon 13-8 kayak.  That's a small boat, but it carried enough to live comfortably for 10 days.  This winter I am planning to buy a solo canoe.  The one that has caught my eye so far is the Wenonah Prism.  Any one have experience with this or other solo canoes?

Maybe check over on solotripping.com - you'll get more info than you want!

My best advise is to not rush it.  Instead plan a year or two away.  Rent rent rent!  Try as many different boats as possible.  Also attend a symposium or meet-up if you can.  People at these events are happy to show off their canoes. 

Everyone has their favourite.  They're like ice cream.  My favourite is the Argosy.

I do know the Prism is a very popular boat.

Strongly recommend to look for one used.  Unless it's really beat up you'll save cash.

Prism is a good, popular choice.  You could say it was designed for BWCA - a "lake boat"- its offered frequently by the outfitters and is noted to be relatively stable.  One advantage with Wenonah, is that they offer a cheaper layup if you are buying new and not looking for a $3000 boat.  Prism layups: 49# = $1,450   44# = $2,050  or 34# = $2,350.

You will get lots of suggestions of people's faforite boats, and some people will like boat X better than boat Y, and others will be just the opposite.

What boat to get depends a lot on how much effort you want to put into getting one - will you drive 500 miles to test one, or to buy one?  willing to pay a couple hundred bucks or so more extra,  and take the risks associated with shipping a canoe to you?  There are a lot of suitable canoes, but not all are readily available - Clipper, for instance is a Canadian west coast boat maker with minimal US presence.  Hemlock Canoes is an East Coast  (NY) maker with no distribution network - you buy at his boat shop or get a boat shipped, as another example.

normally, you are better off buying locally, either new or used.  so step 1 should probably be a search of your area to find the nearest canoe dealers, and see what brands are available.  then look at those manufacturers websites and look at thier "how to choose a canoe" writeups, if they have one - generally, they will group thier boats into categories - "tripping", "river running" etc - that should give you a good idea of what lake tripping boats you have more or less readily available.

if you are in MN, you have lots of options from Wenonah, and some from Bell may still be available, and Souris River as well has some presence there.  lots of BWCA outfitters sell off some of thier rental fleet in the off season, and you may find some deal prices on used boats from them.

Craigslist is a good option for used boats - and looking at the Paddling.Net classifieds is another good source.

Form follows function - a boat designed for solo paddling on lakes is going to be more or less the same, no matter who manufacures it - say 90%; the remaining 10% is where the differences are, and why some people like X more than Y. But they will all work.

Popular alternatives for BWCA boats include the Bell Magic - likely hard to find new since Bell has ceased production a year or two ago, but could be found if you do some googling.   I'd guess that something like 80% of the solo boats on BWCA are Prisms or Magics.   Part of the reason is thier length - speed (and more or less efficiency) are more or less related to the ratio of length to width.  Long and sleek is gonna be faster than short and stout, and that's why those two 16 footers are popular.  But length comes at a price - longer is faster, but harder to turn - like the Wen Voyager ar 17 1/2 foot -  shorter like thier 14' Vagabond will be more manouverable, but slower and easier to bog down with a big load.  If you are a heavyweight, the Wen Wilderness or Bell Rockstar might be better choices.

Personally, I have two lake tripping solo boats - a Mad River Independence - no longer made by Mad River, but available from Vermont Canoe and a Bell Merlin II - both of wihch I have used in Quetico.  at 15'8" and 15', they are a bit shorter, lighter in the case of the 29# Merlin, and more manouverable than either the Prism or Magic, reflecting my personal preferences, but about as fast.  I can recommend both of those boats.

whatever boat you wind up with, most likely won't be your last.  if you buy a prism and later on want something sportier, you can always sell the prism and buy something else, and consider the diff between your purchase and selling price as a rental fee.

do a search on here for "solo canoe" - expand the search parameters first, and you'll find many threads with the same topic - it comes up a couple of times a year at least

or just cruise thru the forum pages for topics with that haedline

Kayaks are my favorite,but I've never paddled a solo canoe so maybe they're very good also.  It's much easier to fish out of a canoe when sitting higher in the seat.  Seems the solo canoe is less forgiving in windy/wavy conditions than a kayak.  I don't know why more solo canoeists do not use a canoe cover.  The cover keeps you drier, warmer, makes upwind easier because you're more streamlined and catch less wind, and prevents any rogue waves from splashing into the canoe so it is vastly more sea-worthy on rough days.

Prism, love it for flatwater
280 lbs and 5-7 day solo trips

why don't more use a cover?  It's not worth the hassle to most.  But you can easily outfit yours for one if so moved.

Excellent advice, so far.  Ditto on Preacher's advice re: renting first (or at least spend quality time in one) before buying, Mad Mat's remarks re: considerations that should go into buying, & IC's comment about stability & spray skirts.

If you do a "search" you will find some additional great advice on QJ concerning this topic.

Most of the notions discussed above went through my mind a few years back when I purchased my Prism.  Also, I talked to several other solo paddlers who were about my size & weight and whose paddling preferences were similar to my own.  Once I settled on the Prism, I scoured the end-of-season deals on used canoes offered by many outfitters.  I also looked for outlets specializing in selling "blems" (for example, if you were looking for a Souris River canoe, the Red Rock Store will often offer special deals on blemished models from the factory... often a really nice deal on a brand new canoe).  When I finally secured my new vessel, I took it over to Dan Cooke (of Cooke Custom Sewing) & had him install a spray skirt.  The spray skirt can be a real PIA until you get the hang of it, btw.  It gets easier to put it on with practice, though, and it will give you some peace of mind in cold water season, as IC indicates.

Good luck in your decision-making.

Jimbo   8-)

Spray-decks are great, but a luxury.  They can cost as much as the canoe.  Extra weight to portage.

I don't mind the weight of the spray skirt; it's not really all that much.  The real trick is learning to peel the halves back before you portage & then putting them back on again after you get to the other side... efficiently & in a reasonable time frame.  When I'm portaging, I'm hustling.  So, I typically won't use my spray skirt during the summer months. 

Yeah, they're a bit pricey, too, but their value seems to rise proportionately with the size of those mid-lake rollers that can side-swipe you in mid to late May.  An added benefit is how surprisingly warm it can stay under that skirt, even when the weather is quite chilly.  Anyway, that's how I'm rationalizing all the dough I handed over to Dan Cooke and I"m sticking to it (at least when my wife reminds me of all of my play toys).

Jiimbo   8-)

I have  had my Prism for about 20 years and have never regretted getting it. When you load it down the stability increases because of what the maker calls the shallow arch design. There are faster canoes but stability is important to me. I am 190 pounds and often start a long trip with packs totaling 170 pounds, the Prism handles it fine. I also like the width of the Prism, no prying bulky packs out of a skinny canoe. >:(

I have done 10 day long trips is several dedicated solo boats Souris river Tranquility, Bell Magic, Bell Rob Roy, and a Placid Boatworks RapidFire. I have spent an entire day paddling Prism and a Poke boat.  There is a lot of difference in these boats.  What I have learned is what you want in a boat will change as your tripping stile changes.  I have found that the Magic is bigger than I need.  Since I started using a magic I have lost 15Lb of fat and 20Lb of gear and my tripping stile has gone from base camper to move almost every day.  You were interested in the Prism and that is a fine solo boat and if you find that in a couple of years you want to try something else there is a good market for Prism’s.

Wow, thanks for all the advice.  I should have mentioned in my original post that I am 6'2" and 220, and recently retired at 63.  Given my weight, the fact that the Loon floated tells you how light I travelled on that trip.  Got most of that advice right here on QJ; don't know what I would do without you folks.  I think the Prism is winning.  Sorry that Bell quit production, I was going to get a Rob Roy for last year's trip, then life got in the way and there was no trip.  I considered the Canak, but it's twice the money just for that comfy feeling of being wrapped around by the boat.  We retired guys dont have schedules; lake gets rough, stay in camp another day. 

Thanks again,
Joe

This is probably an affront to you highly experienced and now advanced trippers,...but what is there to know about soloing in a tandom ?  I bet most of "Y'all" have some sort of experiennce with this. There must a lot of knowlege ,yes -even wisdom-,that you guys (not to mention ,help...) could lay out for those of us who now have the bug (6 bwca trips), little money(wounded cement finisher),and the stubornheadness to push off in my Penobscot by myself for 10 days or so?  I'm hoping to get some practical guidance or ,if not,tails of "valient " efforts by those of you who have been able to enjoy conoe tripping,and evolve,to a level I only hope to get to.   Advice would be really helpful...  mucho... ...

solo in a tandem
....patientce, experience are helpful virtues

knafelc wrote on Nov 27^th, 2011 at 3:22am:

This is probably an affront to you highly experienced and now advanced trippers,...but what is there to know about soloing in a tandom ?  I bet most of "Y'all" have some sort of experiennce with this.

My last three trips were using borrowed solos. Before that, I always just used my tandem. Portaging is easier with the lighter solos and I found can paddle into more wind with a solo but beyond that, paddling a tandem works great. On day trips in my tandem I set a 40# bag of water up front for better trim.

Here's two of mine I can remember.

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A light weight tandem shouldn't be much heavier than an average solo canoe.  You should plan to sit more in the center of the length of the canoe, so some kind of alternate seat??
Maybe a deeper keel or skeg would help with straight tracking on distant paddles.
Anyway, I am dedicated kayak paddler so really don't know much about solo canoes.  MY Poke boat only weighs 28 pounds and I have gotten three weeks of gear and food stowed into it.  Kayaks are hard to stow all your gear in, bulkheads and rudder cables etc. can get in the way.  If you have a kayak without too much under the decks it makes getting the gear into it much easier.

I should add that about 300 lbs is max for the 12 foot Poke boat, gear and paddler.  Poke boat makes a larger model and a tandem model which would carry substantially more weight; the larger solo weighs about 35 lbs.

Nothing wrong with soloing a tandem boat.  Some folks who do long trips need the extra space.

I do it beacuse of cash & utility.  Any time I go on a trip I can bring a buddy without any extra logistics.

...So um,uh,...if a 6 ft. 4-260lb. Illinois boy ,who was almost 59, full of lower back arthritus, and fighting not only financial constraints,but spousal ...(?" drag" ?)...on purchasing another (I have an Oldtown Penobscot) conoe,...  what sort of tandom would work well going backwards untill my former bowsman (he's 16 now and- awfully busy !) starts to have a little more time for Dad ? I'd like to buy some sort of kevlar boat that's not asymetrical in the bow vs stearn rises.   At the same time,I'd need something 'efficient' enough to keep me from being completley dominated by the wind. Of course, I'd look for used, but what is it that would work the best for a compromised purpose?  What did 'you guys' use ''coming up?'' What worked, and what did'nt ?    Got any usefull advise?  Got any good storries?  I'd just love to hear tails of what worked, and what didn't.      Please share your mistakes and succeses so that I and other beginers might learn.         

any symetrical tandem with flat bench seats will work if you want to paddle it from the bow seat  - the 16' royalex penobscot, if that is what you have, is one of the better choices - at 58#, not too heavy to portage  - if you've got a poly version at 75# plus, I can see why you want to go lighter.  Ranger uses his 16' Rx Penobscot when he solos.
A Souris River Quetico 16 (not sure if symetrical, but I think so) is 42# in Kevlar - if your anywhere near Ely, many of the BW outfitters use them, and most will sell used - otherwise, not easy to come by in the rest of the country.

  Hard to get much lighter - my Bell Northstar is 16 1/2' and weighs 39#, but not symetrical so can't really be paddled from bow seat reversed very well (need a kneeling thwart) - you likely want to go to an ultralight vs regular kevlar to get the lighter canoe.

personally, I'd stick with a 15 footer - maybe a Wenonah Prospector in ultralight layup - 38# and $2500 - but I'd never solo a tandem unless I had to so that's speculative.
The Bell Morningstar seems to have a lot of fans as a solo - might find one used.



if you are preferring a used boat, I'd just keep checking Craig'slist for your area and grab the first reasonable candidate you come across

another source is Paddling.net classifides - and thier canoe buyer's guide will give you specs on lots of canoes, and there are also reviews for most of them.

some people do paddle solo in a tandem using the stern seat, piling all thier gear up towards the bow to trim the boat - don't need a symetrical canoe that way

knafelc Finding the right boat for you shouldn't be too hard.  The stickiest point may be the bow/stern rise.  Wenonah 15' Prospector has slightly different rises, but I don't notice that much.

Any decent tandem shouldn't have any problems with your weight & size.

I made one modification to make solo easier.  I moved the bow seat towards center about a foot.  Makes it easier to heel and trim.  Makes tandem a little more trouble, but only my elitist paddler friends have mentioned that.

joe47 wrote on Nov 24^th, 2011 at 6:19pm:

My last trip to the BW was in an Old Town Loon 13-8 kayak. ... This winter I am planning to buy a solo canoe.

Joe, what's wrong with the Loon? I have the same model, actually two of the same model. I've done an 8-day trip across the Q with my Loon 138. If I didn't take the hound with me, I would actually prefer the Loon over a canoe.

For a good, all-purpose solo, I like my Wenonah Wilderness quite a bit.  Picked it up as a demo boat from Midwest Mountaineering a few years ago for a third the price of a Prism or Q16.  On a 16-day trip down the Bloodvein it handled most class I and II rapids, blasted through big waves, tracked well on the calm flatwater and had plenty of capacity for all my gear (100 lbs of gear, 180 lbs of me).  I have the 49 lbs royalex layup which, to me, is a nice compromise between weight on the portage, and utility on the water.  My paddling mate had a Bell Wildfire solo (also in royalex) and spent most of the trip out in front of me.  His boat seemed faster and more maneuverable in rapids, but my Wenonah seemed to have more carrying capacity and tracked straighter out on the big lakes.  I don't mind the heavier royalex canoe over a kevlar because the smaller solo royalex boats are light enough for me, and then I don't have to stress as much about hidden rocks damaging my hull. 

Quote:

260lb. Illinois boy , ... what sort of tandom would work well going backwards untill my former bowsman (he's 16 now and- awfully busy !) starts to have a little more time for Dad ?

Don't take carrying capacity for granted, especially if Number One Son is a moose like dad. My 17'6" tandem is loaded to its max carrying capacity with two 200-lb paddlers and a week's worth of gear.

Once you buy it, you will use it, and you don't want to get caught in an oveloaded boat in rough water!

Thanks guys. I haven't taken a tape measure to it,but I've got the royalex 17' penobscot (17'4"?,Ithink). It did pretty well in rough seas in the past,but then my little guy was only maybe 100lbs. He is growing fast! A couple of topics down ,they're discussing the backwards tandem issue and I've been following it. Seems that I ought to put a bunch of time in it going backwards down here (in Illinois) to get through any learning curve,before I 'jump ship'. I can still carry it,and sometimes 'making do' gives it's own satisfaction. Not getting needlesly bullied by the wind is something I'll try to work on down here. A slightly smaller affordable boat that I can customize is appealing. Thanks. I'll look to the backwards tandem topic-site for more info and let this one focus on solos.