Here's a website with some old standard boat designs.

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I've toyed with the idea of building a cedar strip tandem for a couple of years now. There are a number of sites and resources available. With regard to boat design, I've had a half dozen possibilities on the board and am still uncertain which one to commit to. I haven't paddled a large number of boats but my favorite is still the old sawyer cruiser. I love the way it paddles, but fully loaded there just isn't enough free board for my comfort with any size rollers. I've thought about tweaking the cruisers basic hull design to make it more seaworthy for my taste. Ross Leidy has some great free design software at his 'blue heron kayaks' website. Has anyone here paddled a Swift Winisk and have any comments?

I have no experience with that design however I have built and paddled in Quetico both a cedar strip canoe and kayak. Both were Bear Mountain designs. I bought plans for the canoe and lofted from the tables in Canoe Craft for the kayak. At this link is an account of the canoe build and it's use in Q if you are interested:

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I built a cedar strip Winisk. Great boat, does everything I wanted it to do. Fast and seaworthy. My primary boat, used for spring trips with my buddy and summer trips with the family. Plans from Green Valley.

Moonman

Jimmar,
Thanks for the link. Beautiful boat and trip documenting as well. Did you add something extra to the epoxy (carbon powder?) on the bottom or is that just a dark shadow? oh the pike...!

Moonman,
I've read just about every review possible on the winisk and gather it's a great tripper. have not paddled anything asymetrical. A couple reviewers have mentioned tracking was a prob unloaded. Winisk plans available in a few places but green valley is the one i was looking at. I may have to pm you later, hope you don't mind. thanks.

Yes the bottom of the canoe (an now my kayak) has graphite powder and silica powder mixed with the epoxy. Supposedly it makes the bottom more slippery for encounters with rocks and such. It seems like that may be true, but I think it hides some of the ugliness of the inevitable scratches you'll get if you actually USE the canoe. I kinda like the look too.

i mixed carbon in the epoxy when installing the skidplates on my glass canoe and it seemed to increase durability over straight epoxy. prob a good idea to use it on the bottom. it must have been difficult getting a good sharp transition though.

It wasn't too tough since it was just another coat of epoxy. I marked a line with pencil and masked off all but the bottom then applied with a roller. The problem I had was it was to thick and the roller popped up little bubbles which eventually came out with the finish sanding. If you looked at   (You need to Login or Register most of the build is documented (although not with a lot of detail). Unfortunately I didn't include the graphite step. The canoe is a little heavier than I wanted cause I built it extra tough, but being so stiff it was a lot more enjoyable to paddle than those kevlar rentals.

I see it now best in the 2nd to the last pic. Hey, i went on to the kayak build link too. I now recall stumbling onto that video a while back while searching for build info. so that was you i saw back then.  8-)

Zski,

no problem on the pm, ask away.

Moonman.

Zski-

I believe the Sawyer Cruiser is an asymmetrical design.

I have an old Sawyer 222 in my stable, a fast, stable, seaworthy boat that can carry a ton of gear. Despite the weight (over 80#) it is still my all time favorite tripping hull. This design is unbelievable in rough water, the only flaw in the boat is it's a little wide in the bow for small paddlers. If you like the way your cruiser handles try to find a 222 to model your stripper on.

Solus wrote on Jan 6^th, 2012 at 8:37pm:

...I believe the Sawyer Cruiser is an asymmetrical design....

Well the seats are different and mine favors a right hand but 222 sundowner? Those were huge boats.

i stand co-rected. the cruiser IS an asymmetrical design. (and it's red too) :)
I also picked up an X-17 2 years ago, but there have been issues with it.

db- The 222 does not behave anything like Wenonah's Sundowner.

Yeah, the 222 seems huge, but at the waterline she has the dimensions of a  fast cruiser (18.5' X 34") but with wave-canceling curves rather than straighter lines of my MNII (which the 222 will keep pace with).

Whenever I've taken the 222 on trips with multiple boats there is a common theme- everyone wants to paddle the 222, no one wants to carry it.

My stripper is also a Bear Mountain design (17'6" "Redbird"), from the book Canoecraft. Here's a POD of it from last summer:
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It is very fast, and extremely stable in rough water. I too love the stiffness of a stripper compared to the Kevlar rentals I've tried, and at close to 70 lb. the Redbird has the added bonus of giving you a better workout on the portages! (You could cut the weight some if you were careful)

Bear Mountain has a great website and set of message boards. If you're looking at building a stripper, I'm sure that if you ask, the regs there will give you lots of great advice on the pros and cons of each of the BM designs as well as on any construction details where you might have questions.

I have never considered graphite paint on the hull, even though I've been aware of its existence since I built the boat. Cover up all that beautiful cedar? No way! A light sanding and a coat of varnish at the end of the year and the boat looks as good as new.

That. Is a pretty picture.
Just last week, I purchased ted moores book, canoecraft  in which the redbird is the featured boat.
For me it's narrowed down to 4. winisk, freedom 17. freedom 17-9, or replicate sawyer cruiser and add a bit of sideboard. leaning toward replicating the cruiser because i know it. any preference?

I don't know those four well enough to comment, but if you go to the Bear Mtn boards and do a search, you will find a lot that isn't in the book. Good luck!

Thanks JS. I got some good info from jimmar & Moonman (they've built some really nice boats too) and db also helped with cruiser question. I've spent time at the bear mtn site but you're right to point in that direction, i should ask those guys specifics about the freedom and freedom 17 9. After all, they're the ones selling selling the plans...

Zski - what weight load do you expect to have in the boat? I hear the Freedom 17' 9" is a bit slower than the 17. By the way, from a previous post of your, the Winisk in my opinion has no tracking problems unloaded. I paddle it solo all the time. It is a big boat though so can be blown around in wind when empty. It also has more rocker than a lot of boat that size so the bow is not as sticky as some, but I think that is a big plus. Way more sea worthy and maneuverable in waves. Now the Freedom 17 is a pretty darn good boat as well and lots of guys use it for tripping. So if you haven't picked one yet, depending on your load, I would look at both those hulls, maybe also the Kipawa.

Moonman.

Moonman: For a trip, 525# would be about it.
I still love the cruiser but with a load there just isn't enough freeboard for my comfort. That's probably partly why i like the way it paddles, the low profile, less susceptible to wind and i think it's fast. I don't have experience actually paddling a lot of dift boats. Maneuverability in waves is a good consideration. It looks like the freedom 17 also has a fair amount of rocker.
interesting that winisk description doesn't just give overall rocker value but differentiates bow rocker and stern rocker Bow Rocker 3-1/4" & Stern Rocker 1". this might explain why the bow is less 'sticky'.  (also noticed that bow rocker on the swift product website is 2.5". That's quite a difference from the plans)

I noticed the discrepancy between the Green Valley plans and the Swift website as well - on several different models. Also in listing of loads they have changed, - for example the plans say the winisk designed load is 525, the Swift site lists 625. Swift used to have the same listing as on the Green Valley plans page but increased it sometime in the last few years by 100 pounds. The plans description page does say 525lbs with 9 inches of freeboard though, so maybe Swift is just trying to compete with canoe dealers that say things like 900lbs max load for a 16 foot canoe! On some 15' solo canoes I've seen specs listing weight to immerse as 105lbs per inch, so the Winisk would probably have 8.5" freeboard at 625lbs - that's tons. I do know that I have on occasion had much more than that in mine...

Moonman

Moonman.

It's difficult/impossible to compare specs from one mfgr to another. Even if there's no rocker, they should say rocker = 0, etc. Somewhere on some forum i read that Swift changed the winisk specs at one point. True or not i don't know. The scales are tipped to the freedom 17 right now. check back next week, it might change.

zski wrote on Mar 28^th, 2012 at 9:05pm:

It's difficult/impossible to compare specs from one mfgr to another. Even if there's no rocker, they should say rocker = 0, etc. Somewhere on some forum i read that Swift changed the winisk specs at one point. True or not i don't know. The scales are tipped to the freedom 17 right now. check back next week, it might change.

I'm often amazed at how little information mfgs give about their boats.

Folks over at solotripping.com would be able to give you a lot of this missing info.  Some builders and hobbyists who love to geek-out on the subtle differences an inch can make.