I'm booked, no second guessing..........entry aug 6 PP.

Think I will take a little tour of Basswood. The goal is to follow the shoreline around the entire lake. Zero portaging. Plop out a taildancer and watch the land slide by.......Hopefully Scott Smith will have the ride done by then and wind and waves will be less of a concern.

I have been in North bay and on the American side in Back Bay but never in Pipestone or Jackfish. I can't help but wonder what sort of depth of water.........shallow and weedy or deep and rocky? Been there done that? What can I expect? Thanks.......

Sounds like fun.  Will you do both US and Canadian sides?  Thinking of all the luxuries you can carry.

BillConner wrote on Apr 24^th, 2012 at 11:56am:

Sounds like fun.  Will you do both US and Canadian sides?  Thinking of all the luxuries you can carry.

Well the plan Bill is to follow the shorelines and cover every nook and cranny and circumnavigate the lake without taking any portages. Should add up to several miles. Try and get the Popeye forearms back  ;D. Curious as to wether I will blow through Pipestone and Jackfish or will I want to take them slowly. Shallow water in August means poor fishing.......... American side.......might be topos come to think of it.

I've been interested in the Merriams and the stretch between North and Ranger Bays.  One year with an extra day whne we reached North Bay on way out through PP, we skipped Burke and paddled around Canadian Point.  Preety, different, and few camp sites relatively.

So, old bushwhacker onto posted property........ your logistics are lookin a bit "funny" with a Prairie Portage permit.

Or do you have  BWCA overnight entry permit also ?

travel along the border useing either side for portaging is legal - I don't think moving deep into Pipestone Bay is without a BWCA permit in hand - certainly camping on US side would not be.

I'd also add that if you are in North Bay without a Quetico permit, you may be hassled if you run into a ranger.

Good points.
What about picking up a BW permit and an MN fishing license as well? What's that like an extra like, what $50 bucks tops? I don't think you need to register out of state canoes when you bring your own into MN these days. (No real clue there though.)   Might consider an RABC to go back and forth? Yeeesh, seems like too darn many rules when you play the border and switch sides a lot eh?  ;D

A few portages really don't sound all that bad compared to anticipating all the possible legal scenarios not to mention wind issues.

Legal, schmegal.
Do it.

wally wrote on Apr 25^th, 2012 at 4:22pm:

Legal, schmegal. Do it.

;D
There are a few things in life I've learned the hard way not to trifle with.

In no particular order:
The IRS. (Guilty until proven innocent. Arrrrgh.)
Customs. (Yes sir! No sir! Thank you sir! I'm sorry. You are absolutely correct sir... You have a nice day now too.)
My wife. ( I love you too dear.)
Ma Nature. (  :-/ I'll take my chances with her over the others any day because it's never personal with her. It just is what it is.)

db wrote on Apr 25^th, 2012 at 4:00pm:

I don't think you need to register out of state canoes when you bring your own into MN these days. (No real clue there though.)

Not if you have a state license on your boat already, i.e. Ohio, Ill. But if you come from a "free state" like Indiana where they don't ask you to license canoes,,,MN requires you to license it with them,,,last I heard.

Just another reason for me to go to Q.

"License? We don't need no stink'n license!"

"Not if you have a state license on your boat already, i.e. Ohio, Ill. But if you come from a "free state" like Indiana where they don't ask you to license canoes,,,MN requires you to license it with them,,,last I heard."

as far as I know, that is still a requirement for boating in MN waters (wouldn't apply with a Q permit just travelling the border route though, but agian, Jackfish or Pipestone Bays aren't part of the border route.

and now, you also need one of those (free) stickers for invasive species stuck on your boat somewhere

and if MT's coming from Canada, would he be classed as an invasive species?

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Hmmmm..........

Well maybe I don't have my ducks in a row........long time since I have been in BWCA. Enter PP Aug 6........spend 4 or 5 days putzin around via North Bay getting to the falls.

Can't I just show up to one of the outfitters in Ely and get the permits for BWCA? I definitely want to be legit. Wouldn't they also have the invasive species sticker?

MT......"invasive species"........Ha! Good one Mat.

MT you really need to spend some time checking out the BWCAW rules and permit system, they are completely different than Quetico. It's not impossible but often not worth the effort to try to "blend" both parks into a trip. Crossing back and forth over the border is not allowed except at a portage and North Bay is definitely not part of any BWCAW permit.

Kingfisher wrote on Apr 25^th, 2012 at 8:48pm:

MT you really need to spend some time checking out the BWCAW rules and permit system, they are completely different than Quetico. It's not impossible but often not worth the effort to try to "blend" both parks into a trip. Crossing back and forth over the border is not allowed except at a portage and North Bay is definitely not part of any BWCAW permit.

Sigh..........I thought the hard part would be getting the Quetico permit at this late stage of the game (and it was iffy.....I was surprised at how much was filled). Seems to enter at PP I have to enter a lottery for BWCA. There must be someone I can talk to. The circumnavigation trip is rather tame but is just interesting enough to get my motivation. Not crazy about just fishing in North Bay and Ranger for 10 days even with the new ride.

I agree with KF. You can't just willy-nilly go back & forth crossing borders. You could however, start in Canucks at PP, figure how many nights you will be In Canucks, then have a remote entry (from Canada) permit for the remainder of your trip in MN. You will need an RABC and Canadian fishing liscence, pay the rent for using their land, as well as the BWCAW permit and MN fishing liscence. Don't forget to stop and see Barney in Ely...at end of trip.

As others have said, your canoe will need a current liscence.

I spent part of church tonight asking myself why I want to go into BWCA........Motor boats, more people and shallower water. (I did of course listen to the message......."If God be for us who can succeed against us"......good stuff, but I digress).

Very peculiar winter as far as planning my trip.......usually I know that I know where I'm going. But this years trip has been constantly evolving. Good thing I'm somewhat flexible if need be. Looks like I will take KF's thinking to heart and stay on the north side of Basswood. Plenty of water to get to know. That way when I'm an old (older) guy I'll hopefully know some decent spots to camp and fish only a portage or two in. Lots of batteries for the depth finder and some jigging spoons to try on the reefs for walleyes and smallies. Time to think outside the box for august fishin.

Thanks KF for the prod......it got me thinkin. :thumbup

The RABC permit is not for US entry.  It is a Canadian document for remote entry into Canada without processing through customs.  There is no such critter for remote entry into the US.

Buy and pay for your trip in the BW side,
buy and pay for your trip on the Q side, using your RABC to enter
cross back and paddle out

I've done several trips incorporating both BWCA and Q permits.  I get a BWCA permit for the entire length of the trip and I reserve a Quetico permit for the first half (or whatever) of the trip.  You do need an RABC too and your passports so you can check back in at Ely on the way back.  Going in at PP you can do the Canada side of the lake first, check out the area on Canada side of Upper Basswood River Falls; then leave the Q and travel back along the US side.  Since I do not fish I cannot speak to fishing licenses.   :)

If I reconsider......(again ;) ) that is exactly what I had in mind IC. I have RABC permit coming and have the entry date into the Q with the intention of continuing on from North Bay to Basswood falls into Pipestone and on around.

The problem (and I was going to call the Ranger station today) is gaining the entry through Moose lake into Basswood. Seems to be that there is a lottery if I am not mistaken. Of course the thought occurred to me that they have no clue what entry point I used several days later.........so I could likely pull it off via subterfuge but that would be outside the "spirit" of the law (my how things change).

The concept of circumnavigating the lake is attractive to me but on the other hand would it be "funner" to just stay in the "Q"?....When the first motor boat came along would I say "what am I doing"?.....maybe give myself a break and not push. Maybe even turn my poor August Quetico fishing record around with a little bit of focus (OK, a lot of focus)........

On the other hand if there is no goal, no agenda, no driving ambition, no "accomplishment" will I get bored being solo? Aimless, wandering across vast expanses of open water, criss crossing from one hoped for hotspot to another becoming downcast and mundane......missing my comrades......my wife......my child.......my dogs......my shop. I suppose if I have to......someones got to do it :D

You're making this too hard, MT.  Go to this link:

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You'll find BWCA permits for Moose Lake available just about any day in the summer except most Sundays and Mondays.  As IC posted, reserve an overnight BWCA permit for the same day you're entering Quetico.  Pick up your BWCA permit at the Kawishiwi ranger station (or an outfitter if you're towing up to PP), and then hit the water.  Get your Q permit at PP, paddle the Q portions of Basswood, then head to the US side for as many days as you want.  You will see motor traffic on parts of US side, although motors aren't allowed north of Washington Island to Basswood falls and areas just to the south and west of the falls.  Fishing is good almost anywhere in Basswood.  IN addition to your permits, you'll need Ontario and MN fishing licenses, ON Outdoors card, your RABC, and passport.  When you finally exit back to your vehicle, you just need to visit Customs in Ely.

A lot for MT to sort out.  I think you can more easily break a BWCA trip into a before and after Quetico leg than the other way around, and if I'm not mistaken, you can use the same BWCA overnight paddle permit.  If you simply enter Q first, then a day paddle permit (or tow) and a "from Canada" for return, or get an overnight paddle to begin with.

The back and forth discussion is interesting as I asked Robin Reilly (at COPIA and at the time the superintendent of Q) about that, wanting to do a border trip and be able to camp on both sides.  He said it should be possible and seemed willing to make it work, but (ranger) Jason said no way.

Also I believe that several years ago they added a "base camp" permit that was not listed many times.  I still don't see it but twice I have used one and at last minute.  I seem to recall "Agnes Base Camp" was name and rangers grumbled that it was sort of a bastard permit.  Confirmed at PP last year they were still on the books and available.  I mention it because  it was offered as the correct choice for a short Basswood base camp permit, and they switched it at PP when I entered for my Sarah permit (so they could give the Sarah  permit to someone else and I had no intent of getting that far - 3 day trip.)

So, I'd go counterclockwise around Basswood, or maybe a figure 8, using a Basswood Falls entry and heading there for first night, then start clockwise circumnavigation, re-entering BWCA around Bayley or Inlet, and exiting through Jackfish.

If the less disclosed "base camp" permits are not available, what choice do you have for Q if you plan on no portaging other than Basswood Falls?  And I don't think hugging shore through North and Ranger and ending up at BW a week after entering park is in the spirit of the entry point and quota system.

Interesting planning challenge.

Frankly, I would just stay on the Canada side if I had the money to pay for the extra days.  When the US side is busy and it's hard to find a campsite (the US sites are mostly butt ugly due to overuse) there is always a nice open spot on the Canada side.   ;)

"Seems to enter at PP I have to enter a lottery for BWCA. There must be someone I can talk to."

I don't think you have to get a Moose Lake permit that way - you would just do a self-serve? Day-use permit since you wouldn't be camping in BWCA that first day - unless you were using a "tow" in which case, the outfitters permit would cover your trip to PP on Day 1

Its been years (1996 or so?) since I've used Prairie Portage entry via Moose Lake, so I'm not an expert, but I think that's the way you would do it.  As to the BWCA permit for the return - I'd just see what is avaiable for the day you plan on crossing back to US side - or find a day with an open permit and pick that one to enter with - maybe it is just that "Entering form Canada" and I don't think they limit those? 

You really ought to call a BWCA Ranger Station and talk to them about it - or an outfitter, I suppose.  At least there is an advantage to camping the latter half of the trip in US - no fee other than the one time $15 as compared to $21.50 a day for the Quetico.

And I sorta doubt that IC's method is technically legal - as I seem to recall, once you leave BWCA for Quetico (or just a return to Ely for a day), you'd need a second/new BWCA permit to re-enter BWCA - can't go in and out as you please ?  but again, talk to the Forest Service people about it - the reservation people are likely just contractors or a concession I think, and may  or may not give you the correct answer

intrepid_camper wrote on Apr 26^th, 2012 at 12:33pm:

Frankly, I would just stay on the Canada side if I had the money to pay for the extra days.  When the US side is busy and it's hard to find a campsite (the US sites are mostly butt ugly due to overuse) there is always a nice open spot on the Canada side.   ;)

"frankly my dear I think you are correct"...........I'm glad I made the post, I thank those that have weighed in, I am more settled......75% chance (Lord willing) I will spend 10 or 12 days getting to know the reefs on the Canadian side of Basswood. 25% chance I will head to WCPP although I would need to hear a booming voice from above.........it has been a weird year so who knows. A good ride so far, all things considered  :thumbup

I think my method IS technically legal...I say I'm going in at Moose Lake on day X and leaving on day Y.  They don't care what I do in between as long as I pay the fee, go in the day I am supposed to, and leave around the estimated exit date.  I can't remember off hand how many days you can have on a permit but I think it is around 28-30 before you need to get a different permit.  :-?

I don't know about number of days - I thought a BWCA permit was good for a year from entry - as long as you didn't "leave the wilderness".  (I doubt too many people stay that long and I therefore can’t confirm on Google - yet.)  When I looked into the border route and hopping back and forth, the only real problem was the Quetico permit - picking it up at a Ranger station on the day I entered - and having to leave the Q on the last day on the permit.  I wanted to do like 5 out of 10 days in Q but I would have to pay for the first to last whether I camped in Q every night or not.  Of course RABC, US immigration on way out, fishing paperwork for both countries if you fish, and the permits for both sides.

I wondered if you entered on Canadian side after going through immigration - no RABC - if you can cross into US and back and exit wilderness on Canadian side, since you would not be reporting to US immigration for a while.

We’re it me, I’d do all Q - lots of shore and bays and even opportunities to day hike.  And I’d probably squeal in a trip to Isabella - love paddling through the meadows leading up to it.  And Lost Bay is a nice paddle - protected if on a stormy day.  The old Ranger Bay ranger station is stabilized and an interesting walk about.  Lots to see from BF to PP along the Q side.

see "Travel Permits" below - copied from Forest Service  link below

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The following are enforceable Forest Service
regulations (maximum penalty of $5,000 and/or
6 months in jail).
TRAVEL PERMITS
• You must enter the BWCAW at the entry point
and on the entry date shown on your permit.
• You may not re-enter on a different date using
the same permit.
• Permit stubs become invalid when the trip leader
exits the wilderness.
GROUP SIZE
• Nine (9) people and four (4) watercraft are the
maximum allowed together in the wilderness.
• You may not exceed the limit at any time or
anywhere (on water, portages, campsites) in the
BWCAW.
• Smaller groups increase your wilderness
experience and decrease the impacts.
TOILET FACILITIES & WATER QUALITY
• Use latrines at designated campsites.
• Latrines are not garbage cans and should be used
for the intended purpose only. Personal waste
items such as cigarettes, cotton swabs, or plastic
feminine products should always be packed out
and should never go into the latrines.
• If you’re not near a latrine, dig a small hole 6 to
8 inches deep at least 150-200 feet or more back
from the water’s edge. When finished, fill hole
and cover with needles and leaves.
• Bathe and wash dishes at least 150-200 feet from
lakes and streams.
• All soaps pollute water including soaps labeled
“biodegradable.”
CONTAINERS
• Cans and glass bottles are not allowed.
• Containers of fuel, insect repellent, medicines,
personal toilet articles, and other items that are
not foods or beverages are the only cans and
bottles you may keep in their original containers.
• Food may be packaged in plastic containers that
must be packed out with you.
FOOD AND FISH REMAINS
• Try to plan your meals so you don’t have
leftovers. If you do, pack them out.
• Dispose of fish remains by traveling well away
from campsites, trails, portages and shorelines.
CAMPFIRES
• Fires are allowed within the steel fire grates at
designated campsites or as specifically approved
on your visitor’s permit.
• Bringing a small camp stove may be a better idea
because it heats food more quickly, has less
impact than a fire, and comes in handy during
rainy weather.
• Due to the potential fire danger, fire restrictions
may be put into effect. Check on current
conditions just prior to your trip. You may be
required to use a camp stove if there is a campfire
restriction.
• If you build a fire, burn only small diameter dead
wood found lying on the ground. Do not burn
trash.
BWCAWilderness Rules & Regulations
• Collect firewood away from campsites by
paddling down the shore and walking into
the woods where it is more abundant.
• Wood easily broken by hand or cut with a
small folding saw eliminates the need for
an axe.
• Drown your fire with water any time you
are going to be away from your camp or at
bedtime. Stir the ashes until they are cold
to the touch with a bare hand.
•

I will probably show up on the 4th after I drop my wife and daughter at the Minneapolis airport at 6 A.M. and then to Moose lake. I wonder how far that is?.......I see 2.5 hours to duluth and then what about 4 hours or so to Moose lake? Might take longer after a stop at Betty's pie shop....... ;D

BWCA is but a memory now. I dislike the thought of paying for nights I won't be using all to go to a less desirable area. Double whammy. Now instead of going fast I'm going to have to concentrate on going slow and really looking around. Investigatory trip if you will. Check out campsites, reefs.......have GPS and pencil and paper handy to jot notes. Hopefully whack a few monsters while I'm at it. I'm starting to feel good about it and you folk helped me iron it out. Thanks.  8-)

My entry date is not until the 6th. I wonder if I can smooth talk my way into getting in early (yea right)? Maybe they would let a solo boat on Basswood in early eh? Otherwise I have to hang around a day. I thought about walking the Poacher lake portage for something to do, might be interesting.

Its been a long time since I crossed the border by canoe, so I looked to see what kind of permits I was getting.  Going into Quetico thru Prairie Portage, I had a Moose Lake BWCA entry - just one, an overnight permit that had an entry date same as Day 1 for Quetico, and exit date for Day Last. Through Cache Bay, had a BWCA permit via Saganaga, and it was set up the same way, as an overnight permit with Day 1 as entry date and Day last as exit. So apparently that is how they issued the permits and make an exception to the no in and out rule for gong and coming to/from Quetico ?  or maybe it was Don't Ask Don't Tell ?  My last trip was in 94 - one way from Beaverhouse to Prairie Portage to Moose Lake - that one was set up by an outfitter, and the BWCA permit was for Entry 71 - Entry from Canada, and strangely, it also was an overnight permit with entry date being the same day we went in to Beaverhouse and exit day being Day Last even though we did not do anything more than paddle from PP to Moose Lake landing.

I'm thinking that there is no quota or limit to those Entry from Canada permits or it would be a logistical nightmare - so I'd think you could always get a day-use for Moose Lake, as an entry, and then the 71 for the time you wanted to come back across the border ?

at the bottom of that brochure I linked to, there are phone numbers for the BWCA ranger stations - I'd just give them a call and ask them how to go about it.  For me, I'd get the permits, but the boat registration thing would be a deal breaker today - back then, we always had my Dad's Grummans registered in NY for use with a motor (actually got checked on that by a MN Game Warden (or whatever he was) in a boat. 

"BWCA is but a memory now. I dislike the thought of paying for nights I won't be using all to go to a less desirable area."

?   I don't see that you have to do that?  pay the Quetico Fee for the X# of nights you'd be there - say the first week, then move to BWCA side and you'd only pay the $16 - you don't pay a per day camping fee for BWCA

Mad_Mat wrote on Apr 27^th, 2012 at 1:00pm:

"BWCA is but a memory now. I dislike the thought of paying for nights I won't be using all to go to a less desirable area." ?   I don't see that you have to do that?  pay the Quetico Fee for the X# of nights you'd be there - say the first week, then move to BWCA side and you'd only pay the $16 - you don't pay a per day camping fee for BWCA

That was what I initially had planned Mat. But don't I have to enter BWCA at an established EP on the day reserved? Since I will be spending the first 5 days or so in Quetico and wandering up toward Basswood falls that would certainly put me at odds with the "spirit" of the entry system would it not?

While I like the goal aspect of paddling around the entire lake (still seems like a cool idea) I think in the long run IC has it right. Why put up with crowds and motor boats and heavily used campsites? Why not make the goal to know the Canadian side of Basswood in an intimate way.......notes of campsites, reefs found and plotted on the GPS. That would be a trip with some satisfaction especially if one does it with the future in mind. Lord willing I'm still kickin in my 60's and 70's and in decent health it might be nice to know Basswood. The good campsites, the good spots to fish. My big portaging days might be over by then but I cannot envision not being able to trip somewhere.........

All I know is that if Scott Smith doesn't have the Expedition finished by then the trip will far less satisfactory and I might even scrap the whole idea. Part of the attraction is getting to know the boat and see what it is capable of in bigger water (that is not to cold :o ).

Quote:

reefs found and plotted on the GPS

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There must be GPS maps with the same info included?

db wrote on Apr 27^th, 2012 at 3:00pm:

Quote: reefs found and plotted on the GPS   (You need to Login or Register   (You need to Login or Register There must be GPS maps with the same info included?

Wow.......what a guy! Thanks db. I was under the impression that contour maps for lakes in the Q were non existent. How cool is this. I know what I'll be lookin at in the "readin room" for the next few months. Thanks Pal. :)

It's on its way.........one of my favorite pastimes......pouring over maps!! ("watch out leetle feesh, your in big trouble now".....Russian accent implied  ;) )

MT:  "Since I will be spending the first 5 days or so in Quetico and wandering up toward Basswood falls that would certainly put me at odds with the "spirit" of the entry system would it not?"

While I tend to agree with your logic, and think the day paddle on day in and over night paddle #71 on day back into BWCA is correct, outfitter said just get the overnight paddle to start with and it will be fine until you "leave the wilderness".  I don't like to circumvent laws because you won't get caught, but lets say you got a #71 that started two days before you crossed back into US. No USFS ranger will stop you in Q and they won't know when you are in US when you entered, and you've not deprived them of any money, so?

My direction recently has been to get the overnight paddle and paddle up Moose the night before Q rather than bunk and pay for a tow to PP. One of those 4-5 sites near top of moose and a couple of minutes from PP is nearly always open - if not all of them - and while not perfect, it's economical and all perfectly legal.

I routinely do what BC does, paddle the Moose chain the day before and camp near PP for the night.  It takes 3-4 hours to paddle there from the canoe access on Moose.  I also find it is a good way to double check you have everything you need and helps to re-arrange your gear a bit by setting up camp;  when you pack up again it seems the gear is better organized and somewhat less bulky with fine tuning.
This perhaps works well for me because the last hour or two when getting ready to leave for camping at home I am still not entirely "ready" and start to just throw extra stuff I think I want into a pack "in case".   ;D

I think it works for me because if I start driving up early, I can be on Moose at 3 or 4 with a stop at Zups and CCO.  And, if it is poor weather, I can probably still bunkhouse and take a tow in the morning.  I use CCO, which has a small store at their Moose base for teh very last minute items. What I haven't done but have thought about is taking a tow the later afternoon/early evening before Q rather than paddle.  I guess when I've done this Moose was beautiful for paddling.  It's about 2 hours tandem on a glass lake day for me - under 8 miles.

I am so wondering what to do with my extra day and a half. Not to keen on spending much time on Moose lake. I thought about spending the time on Basswood near PP. Think I would have a problem just showing up for a day pass to overnight on Basswood on the American side? Don't they keep a certain number of passes aside for just that scenario?

More contemplative thought......

Just finished reading Hunter Island Showdown in BWJ and listened to Stu boast about having all that fresh food like steaks and such. I have always thought such treats might be nice but the thought of portaging frozen water never had much appeal to me.......

Until now that is ;D......... Shoot, I'm doing a portage free trip. Why not make meal time super special? A guy can only troll and jig for so long. Make a fire, break in my purcell grill with a nice steak and a glass of ice cold gatorade. Sounds kind of groovy.

Looks like Stu might get a customer. I just have to make sure his hard insulated food pack will fit inside the Expedition. If it gets really hot I might just hang a sign out in front of my camp......"Ice cold lemonade $5"......... 8-) ;D 

Hmmm, I'd say this discussion is getting into "paralysis by analysis" territory, but I know MT is going to go, come hell or high water, so I guess I'm wrong. 

But I've been waiting for a chance to use my favorite saying, being a non-analytical guy much to my wife's dismay. No matter -- MT has lots of options, and lots of "ifs."  Al -- just hop in that  canoe and "let the force be with you!"   :)

prouboy

Puckster wrote on May 1^st, 2012 at 3:41am:

Hmmm, I'd say this discussion is getting into "paralysis by analysis" territory, but I know MT is going to go, come hell or high water, so I guess I'm wrong.  But I've been waiting for a chance to use my favorite saying, being a non-analytical guy much to my wife's dismay. No matter -- MT has lots of options, and lots of "ifs."  Al -- just hop in that  canoe and "let the force be with you!"   :) prouboy

Good timing Mike........during lunchtime I have been watching "The Empire Strikes Back" in 1/2 hour segments........"There is no try, there is only do" (Yoda accent implied.....My favorite Star Wars saying)

No paralysis........actually this has been extremely helpful. I'm almost to the point I'm looking forward to it. Yup, I planned a trip I really didn't have my heart set on because it just makes sense. My practical self seems to have asserted control........rats! But I'm feeling lots better about it after YOU-ALL (wanna be a southerner) weighed in. Shoot, good eatin, topo map, fishin the right side, permit in place with no extra hoops.........all good stuff.   

The only canoe trips that go as planned are seriously and intentionally under planned. IMHO

More ponderings........Contour map has arrived (thanks again db). I was a little miffed that North Bay isn't in the works as it would of been so cool to get a visual on where I have caught fish before.

Still kinda groovy though. Getting excited. Here is the fishing plan......troll, troll, troll. I expect to run a deep diver but here is a little different wrinkle. I am very curious to see if the whopper walleyes relate to the open water cisco schools like I have found in other big shield lakes in August. So 2 rod holders, 2 rods, and I think one will be WAAAAAY back on braid with the big honkin flat rap. Should run about 12 ft........ I will find out........ and those of you who have been "nice" to me I will tell you about it  ;D  ::).

The other thing I really want to spend a fair amount of time doing (once I find the reefs and mark some fish) is to use butterfly jigs and jig the bottom in waters between 30 and 40ft for big walleys and smallys). Middle of the day stuff..........now I just have to get Scott Smith to make the blasted boat. My patience is getting depleted. Am I going to have to send some people over to his place to make sure he understands  who he is dealing with  8-) ::) ?? Maybe he will find a fish head under the covers  ;D.

Remember one rod/one lure only per angler in Quetico and BWCAW.

Kingfisher wrote on May 5^th, 2012 at 7:34pm:

Remember one rod/one lure only per angler in Quetico and BWCAW.

Thanks KF.......there is little or no doubt in my mind I would of forgotten this. I have always just run one rod in my solo but with a bigger boat I was really lookin forward to runnin shallow and deep. Rats......I really had wanted to kill the proverbial 2 birds with one stone.

Kingfisher wrote on May 2^nd, 2012 at 5:13am:

The only canoe trips that go as planned are seriously and intentionally under planned. IMHO

You can't even carry two rods?  or simply can't be using two at one time?

BillConner wrote on May 6^th, 2012 at 3:20pm:

[quote author=Kingfisher link=1335267784/40#40 date=1335935620] You can't even carry two rods?  or simply can't be using two at one time?

Carry as many rods as you like but only one rod/lure per person can be in use at a time.

Talked to Scott Smith today........finally the boat is being finished up. I am excited as my Basswood trip was incumbent on having this boat.......otherwise I would of done something else. I am hoping Basswood kicks up a bit so I can see what she does in the snot.

Interesting debate about the Sea Wind vs Expedition going on over at Watertribe. (Scott Smith worked for Verlen and has made a variation of the Sea Wind......more of a racing style hull, longer, larger capacity......the Expedition).

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Now I know I made the right call by not going back to WCPP to settle the score and repair my wounded ego this summer.............

Finally picked up the Superior Expedition from Scott Smith (just outside of Lansing Michigan)...........I was blown away with what he had made. It was so much more than I expected...........he is a true artist and craftsman. The boat is so nice I almost don't want to use it for fear of putting a scratch on it (I'll get over that soon enough ;D ). I'm also seriously concerned that someone might swipe the darn thing while on the road parked at a motel..........might have to look into some insurance). I haven't, as yet, put it into the water and who knows if I will have time before August.

Looking forward to drilling some holes in it today for depth finder mounts, rod holders etc............The real test will be the 10 or 12 days on Basswood. I will of course give my opinion on the boat after that............right now she is drop dead gorgeous but how does she paddle? How does she paddle in the snotty stuff? How does the wind effect her? Is she as responsive as I think she will be considering the rudder? blah, blah, blah.........anyway I'm almost a little nervous that I might leave my first love (Bell Merlin) for this sexier model. Looks aren't everything though and I will have to reserve judgement.

"I'm also seriously concerned that someone might swipe the darn thing while on the road parked at a motel..........might have to look into some insurance). I haven't, as yet, put it into the water and who knows if I will have time before August."

as long as you are drillin, why not buy one or two TugEyes for the new boat? enough to deter a casual thief at least -   that way you can have a through the hull cable lock - its a fairly small hole, and I've only found one cheap combo bike lock with an end small enough to fit thru, but its still a lot better than nothing - esp at a motel, or if you have a breakdown on the road and have to leave the van and boat.

there was a recent thread on paddling.net about two kayaks stolen from a guys's driveway - he had them loaded on the vehicle ready to head for the Yukon R race, and they were gone in the morning. 

I often load my boats the night before, but will always use some kind of cable lock at least - and with my Bell, a second cable over a thwart to add a little difficulty.

a different option are the kevlar reinforced lasso locks they sell for kayaks - tough to cut with a knife

or just load in all the gear you have - that way it would take a 10 ton crane to move the boat.

Thanks Mat.............you have always been very helpful and I, for one, do appreciate it. I intend to do exactly as you suggest.

BTW.............I have a keyed cable type lock with a slim end that should work just fine and dandy for sliding though the tugeye.........FWIW I picked it up at either Lowes or Home Depot, they come in various lengths..........3/8 cable I think, fairly substantial..............I will likely also slide my radio shack motion detector alarm up inside the boat as per my usual custom.

Mounted depth finder, GPS, rod holder, and a unique system for holding 3 rods..............came out great, very pleased. Pics will come with TR (Lord willing)................

MT: "I am hoping Basswood kicks up a bit so I can see what she does in the snot."

In a week - I think you will be hoping it does not kick up every day - and will be sure to have an opportunity to test the vessel.

When Basswood kicks up a snot (not IF), just remember, you got what you wished for...stay safe. Your canoe can probably handle more than you can, superman. ;D

More like a wanna-be-superman OS............(worried about the cape catching to much wind)

There were pics in the Kreugers story showing his Sea Wind lauching in absolutely unbelivable ocean surf.........

I'll mind my P's and Q's...........My choice of this boat was to be able to handle big water with a comfortable margin of safety while still using an abundance of my usual caution. I'm no hotshot or Verlen clone...........just a bit gritty when it comes to putting in the time (I hate sitting in camp for hours anyway).

Took the Expedition for a test run..........

The first thing I noticed is how sensitive it is to weight placement. The little 24lb 12 volt battery was off center and the effect was immediate. I suspect fore and aft weight placement less of a concern with its 18 ft length.

The 2nd thing I noticed was just how fast the boat is. Moves right along. I have gone from a chevy pickup to a mazarati.

3rd.........rudder system is super sweet. I can also envision using it while drifting a shoreline fishing to correct the attitude of the drift.

4th..........paddles very nicely with the rudder up.

5th........depth finder shot through the hull just fine. Great!

6th..........it is heavier than my Merlin at 65 lbs. I went to flip it up like I usually do and had to double clutch. Not used to that.

A rather funny incident (at least from my perspective) happened at the take out. I was wondering about secondary stability and was rocking her pretty good at the take out trying to heave her over (and almost suceeded when the aforementioned battery decided to help out). A middle aged jogger lady yelled out "do you need some help"...............Had she been a pony tailed, spandex wearing, blond twenty something I might of responded in the affirmative..........."why yes, yes I do..........how very kind of you"  :D

Quote:

A middle aged jogger lady yelled out "do you need some help"...............Had she been a pony tailed, spandex wearing, blond twenty something I might of responded in the affirmative..........."why yes, yes I do..........how very kind of you"

I see the Sports Car effect works on both 4 wheel rides as well as sleek paddling ones ;)

Whether in a sleek Maserati or Expedition guys really do think young babes would be into them and not their expensive ride or fat wallets  :-? ;D

mastertangler wrote on Jul 11^th, 2012 at 11:18pm:

aforementioned battery decided to help out

My fear would be that a 24pound ??? solid object of that size could over power the neutral buoyancy of most paddle type crafts and take it to the bottom in certain situations.

mastertangler wrote on Jul 11^th, 2012 at 11:18pm:

I suspect fore and aft weight placement less of a concern with its 18 ft length.

From my experience the longer the boat the more critical the fore and aft trim is to how your boat handles. Your rudder should help overcome trim problems till you find the optimum balance.

Tie a rope to that battery to give it a dual purpose, boat anchor.

I was surprised at just how small the battery is..........sort of like an ATV battery. I didn't really think it was 24 lbs but I guess it is...........no bigey, only 1 portage (PP). Plus if the higher output of the Lowrance needs a bit more juice to shoot thru the hull.........all in all a good call I think. I'll likely want weight in the boat while I'm out fishing...........

solid musing on the chance of sinking a boat db........might overcome my little solo......unlikely it would sink this boat......but still??

What was not a good call was the LTG (low to ground) recliner chair I picked up from REI. Very sweet chair........can still cook out of it but I think I could actually fall asleep in it as well, very comfy with armrests and reclinable position. But alas, with the tubular steel frame I had decided to strap it on the deck. Bad call..........at 12 lbs a poor choice to have weight that high. Pity, it will have to go back (and I was so looking forward to reading and writing in it).

:o 12 pounds!
Why not try a cheap beach chair from K-Mart or Walmart or Target?  Only about 3 pounds.  At 12 pounds you could opt for a cheap folding camp chair, since they fold up you can stow inside the boat or lengthwise on top, still with a lower center of gravity. 

12 lbs indeed..........almost obscene!! REALLY nice though, only rivaled by the Lafuma zero gravity recliner (accept no substitutions).......

4 of the 5 voices in my head agreed it was a poor idea to have the extra weight on the deck and it was graciously accepted as a return from the good folks at REI. In its place I picked up a mini tri-pod stool complete with backrest (2.5 lbs). Much more practical and still an upgrade from my usual tripod stool (14 oz). But, unlike the LTG recliner, I won't be taking any naps in it though that is for certain.

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well here am in Gurnee Illinois........

4 days here and 4 days in Minneapolis with my new baby sitting on top of my truck before my entry at PP. Even though I have a cable lock through the hull I'm still a bit nervous leaving it out all night. Geico wouldn't insure it and my homeowners only covers 1k.

tonight I did something that may be of value to some other folk and hence the reason for this post. In an effort to thwart bears from obtaining my groceries I purchased a "motion detector" alarm. With a fairly loud siren and flashing light I figured it would scare the daylights out of any self respecting bear. I couldn't of been more wrong as the bruin on Sawbill made short work of my oats and granola all while the alarm was blaring............but I digress.

This motion detector alarm is slightly larger than a cell phone and is designed to hang on a doorknob. Open the door and off it goes. It fires only if you move the unit. Tonight I armed the unit and slid it into the hull. Might be just enough to scare someone off. I picked mine up at radio shack for about 20 bucks. It could be a little peace of mind at that remote mom and pop motel in the middle of nowhere.............

Here you go MT, this baby should let you sleep better at night. I'm sure you/others could find some more creative uses for it.

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If you've never seen or bought from these guys, you should get on their mailing list. Everything I've bought has been top-notch.
IMHO the best polo-shirts around for the price.
I wear XL for room in chest/shoulders and to allow for shrinkage. I wear a Medium from them and it's still roomy even after repeated washings and drying in hot dryer.
If you order your normal clothing size in their FOM line, don't be surprised if you have to return it, becasue they run large ;)

well, you almost had a taker on that duluth trading post alarm - looks like the cable is small enough to fit thru the smallish tugeye for composites fitting

until I read the reviews !  4 out of 8 not so good

MM,

I read the review as well but like most reviews, I take them with a grain of salt :-/
I'd probably order one and examine it without actually marring it up. You can always return if its not up to snuff.

I probably run against the grain with traditional thought of having multiple uses of items. My experience is when that tack is taken the item seldom does anything especially well.............the lock is a perfect example.

Mat..........cable locks thin enough to go through the tug eye might not be to hard to find. BTW.........I ordered the tug eye but was rebuffed when informed he wasn't supplying the type I ordered at this time..........."check back later". Just as well, the Expedition has a through hull fitting designed to accept a stabilizer pole to cat up to another boat. Works for me.

I like the little radio shack alarm............I have had it for several years now. It also has a flashlight function (so much for doing just one thing well eh?). The light flashes on and off if the alarm is triggered. (while the bear was munching my oats I quipped to my buddy at the time........."Dinner with music and a light show" :D )

Here's another approach sans the alarm.
Nothing is fool proof, given enough time you can defeat any system designed for ease/travel requirements. The idea is to slow the miscreant down and maximize his exposure time.

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They make a longer version that you could probably wrap completely around your boat before securing. I think that would deter most anyone unless they just say the hell with it and punch out your ignition ;D

Hey I like those ST.............a little peace of mind.

Well I'm bringing an absolute pile of fishing tackle. I even have a extra plano box so I can pick out what I want to use for the day. An insane 7 rods are coming along. Why not? 1 portage and base camping with a move every 2 days with 11 days of nothing but fishing in a complex mid summer large body of water. Specialization is at a premium.

rod 1...........6' 6"light action spinner with 4/6 lb mono. slider heads/shakey jig heads and 4" straight worms will take the smallies when all else fails down to 15ft

rod 2.........7' med hard action spinner 6/8 mono for deepwater jigging and larger plastics.

rod 3........7' baitcaster with 12 lb XT mono. Night trolling with large rapalas and night casting 1 oz single blade spinnerbaits for smallies

rod 4......muskie rod 50lb braid..........big spoons, 30 manns, dipsy diver, 8oz in line weights

rod 5.......8' walleye trolling rod/line counter with 30 braid.........smaller dipsy divers and in line weights

rod 6........9' steelhead rod..........my go to rod for running deep diving cranks on light line. The length lets me get by running light line with hard pulling cranks like tail dancers and not get busted off when mister big walleye decides to eat. Very forgiving.

rod 7.........trying something new, jigging spoons (butterfly) on mid lake reefs

So yea.....a lot of stuff. But what the heck, I'm solo with nothing else to do but keep trying new stuff until I banish my August jinx. It's not like the fish stop eating in August but I have done poorly my last 2 trips in the Q in August. Maybe to much traveling and to much afternoon fishing.......I dunno.

I am going to make a serious attempt at panfishing (yes I like to catch small fish too as long as they are big  ;D ). I'll plop out a jig with a maggot of gulp while in camp on a slip bobber. I'll probably cast the slip bobber set up occasionally while I work a shoreline as well especially if it is calm. I even have some tiny flutter spoons to try behind some in line weights. I am partial to eating big perch or large gills if I can get them. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to bang a big crappie or two as well. Anyway, I do intend to try for the panfish this time.

I have never tried the dipsy divers but with the line counter reel I think it could be effective if done right. When we used to fish the shield in August by powerboat I was always surprised just how deep the big fish were. Walleyes 6lbs seem to be at least 30 ft during the day and we caught one over 8 on some spikes in water over 40.

I usually fish at least an hour after dark but it is usually fruitless after it gets totally dark. I think I give up to soon. The plan is to start around 2 A.M. and fish until mid morning. Snooze during the heat of the day (and avoid the flies). The big 6 inch flat raps will get the nod along weed edges. The 1 oz single colorado spinnerbait will be used along rocky points.

what else? a few other wrinkles. Should be interesting. I am totally jacked up to the point it is spilling over on this keyboard. I think I REALLY need a vacation  ;D. Who knows.........maybe I'll just sit in camp and read and drink coffee all day. That has some appeal after a summer of go-go. But I'll certainly have options and specialized tools which are in and of themselves enjoyable to employ. I'll try and take a few pics and give an honest appraisal of how I did. If I suck you'll know it..........if I do good I'll share what worked. If I do REALLY good you can PM me for details (contributions/donations are handled via my secretary at MT enterprises). Wish me luck  8-)

 

Good luck to you sir!
I'll be heading up to PP on Friday AM.
My brain is up there tooling around in Inlet bay already, I hope to catch up with it at my favorite reef.

I expect nothing but the most truthful and honest lies from you upon your return. I'll help you make up some good ones if I see you up there.  ;)

Pondo, looks like I'll be off by one day...........drop the missus and the young'un off at the minneapolis airport Saturday morn. Should be somewhere on Moose later that afternoon (Lord willing and the creek don't rise). My entry date is not for 2 days later...........wondering if they will let a solo who is staying on Basswood in early. I guess I will find out. 

Be safe MT :)
If the fishing sucks, you can always make lemonade from lemons and do some good old free enterprise business.
With that load of tackle you could outfit some poor sap that has lost his rod/tackle at a price fitting for the occasion ::) ;D

MT, Looking forward to your findings. Any fishing report that follows should include a rod # since a published rod list is available for easy reference  :thumbup.  Gills are on the top of my list for eating fish, and i wonder if you might see a whitefish on the end of your line, i've heard they're tasty, but never caught one. Be blessed, have fun!

Having some fun in Minneapolis.............what a great town! Went to the Guthrie theatre and seen "Roman Holiday", a musical, and liked the place so much went back the next night and seen the "Sunshine Boys". I envy you twin city QJ members who have the culture of the big city without 7 lanes of traffic and are only one day away from canoe country.............best of both worlds!

Should be on Basswood tomorrow..............humidity supposed to clear out but my friend has informed me that his friend had just returned from the BWCA and the bugs were horrendous.........I replied that it is now August and all the bugs are gone ;).   

Hey MT -- I'll buy you a cup of coffee before you leave tomorrow.  Call.

prouboy

Puckster wrote on Aug 4^th, 2012 at 3:25am:

Hey MT -- I'll buy you a cup of coffee before you leave tomorrow.  Call. prouboy

Mike, I didn't forget about you..............
But it is my ladys and I twenty something year anniversary......I had to stay focused 8-)

I drop her at MSP for her flight home about 4AM..........I could be available say about 4;30 ;D

I'm back. Trip went great, very satisfying. Boat is awesome. Fishing was good for size but not numbers. 11 days and I'm already wishing I was back out there.

Thanks to all who weighed in on this thread to help me flesh out a trip that was so much more than I was expecting it to be.

I will post my journal in lieu of a TR along with some pics. My apologies in advance as it is a bit laborious to wade through but those who are piscatorially minded might find some interesting nuggets to come away with.

Welcome back!  Glad there was no diaster headline announcing your return.  I'll be in some of the same water in less than three weeks.

-now I gotta look up' piscatoraly'. :o

knafelc wrote on Aug 16^th, 2012 at 12:41am:

-now I gotta look up' piscatoraly'. :o

Just remember your horoscope symbols; or maybe you are into astronomy ... Pisces (the fish).

dd