jaximus wrote on May 7^th, 2012 at 5:23pm:

i agree with you on big baits dont always catch bigger fish. most of my biggest fish have come on small baits.

Snow_Dog wrote on May 8^th, 2012 at 1:39am:

Bait size largly depends on season.  The later in summer, the bigger baits I use, generally speaking.

A good topic on it's own.   :thumbup

I'm in a slightly opposite camp.  My experiences have made me lean towards larger baits more often than small in almost all circumstances.  I'm a big fan of the 4" Gulp emerald shiner and black shad and my only wish is that I could find a 1/16 oz jig with a long enough hook to accommodate (that slow sink is ruined by 1/8 oz).  My crank baits are also getting bigger and going deeper.  I've had too many recent experiences with huge fish on big baits for me to spend a lot of time with the smaller presentation.  My philosophy is bigger baits = bigger fish more often than not.  Of course, YMMV.  Discussion?

+1

My experiences are mostly the same.  My big pike as seen in my avatar came on a 6" swim bait.  My thought is that fish prefer to feed as efficiently as possible which means they'll prefer larger forage when they can find it.

size matters!

so does Gulp.  Discussion?  I like Gulp 3-4" minnows or grubs all the time.  Have taken a liking the last 3 years to the Gulp leech and juice.  But I gotta come up with a better transport vehicle.  I love live leeches too, but can't justify the hassle of 'em.

I think if you're talking 'eyes or pike, bigger is usually better.  Crappies n gills can be a different story but they're not common BW/Q fodder.  Smallies?  Seems you just have to piss 'em off.

Trout?  Don't know but I'd bet bigger may be better.  Ice fishing a few years back in Crownland near the Q....we could see our prey, small 2-3 lb Lakers under the ice.  Couldn't entice a strike.  Went for the smallest salted minnows we could find and had success.

i dont think that i really agree with much of what you are saying about size. i know thats a pretty common thought among the fishing community but from my experience size plays a much smaller role than other variables.  i stick with pretty much the same size all year round. in the spring my lures are a little larger than the spawn so they stick out, an easier meal. in the fall they are smaller than the young of the year, so they stick out, smaller generally means weaker. in the spring i retrieve more slowly. cold water means fish dont move as well, so an easier big meal is better than a smaller faster one. fall i use a more erratic retrieve.

with that said, again i prefer shad shaped lures over minnow lures of the same length. i like the larger profile, more flash, more vibration. if that means larger?

I'll size-up if I want to exclude smaller fish.

Some of my biggest fish were caught on some of my smaller lures.

Preacher wrote on May 8^th, 2012 at 5:19pm:

I'll size-up if I want to exclude smaller fish.

I agree. Some of the best large walleye and pike fishing I've found occurs in areas that also contain lots of hand sized small mouth bass. At times it's impossible to keep them off of a smaller trolled bait. Sizing up prevents them from getting hooked but they still try and you can feel them nip at the larger lures.

Preacher wrote on May 8^th, 2012 at 5:19pm:

I'll size-up if I want to exclude smaller fish

this explains my younger brothers theory pretty well. big fish can eat anything. smaller fish can only eat things up to a certain size. smaller things allow for more bites which allows for more knowledge on the color/speed/depth/etc of what the fish want. this knowledge then helps to produce larger fish in the long run

big fish dont get big by being overaggressive chasing meals. they are opportunistic. getting to the right spot/speed/depth at the right time matters much more than size in my opinion.

i found this in an article on another side, i thought it was pretty interesting...

"Anglers often experiment between stick baits and shad profiled baits and both lure profiles have their place in walleye fishing.  The biggest lesson I have learned from my years trolling is to keep forcing yourself to try and retry different things.  Don’t live by the fishing rules so many anglers are quick to throw at you.  Matching the hatch for example is a joke with walleye fishing.  Many walleyes for example have never seen a night crawler or fire tiger minnow.  Force yourself to switch between shad profiles and minnow profiles and let the fish tell you. 

Some fisheries seem to show certain preferences towards a specific size, color or profile but be careful not to get so hung up on something that you have no confidence doing anything else.  I have worked with Salmo for quite a few years and have caught a tremendous amount of walleyes on the Salmo Suspending Stings but the size 4 and size 5 Salmo Hornets can be deadly as well.  Other great shallow water trolling lures for walleyes include the classic floating Rapala and Husky Jerks.  Smithwick Rattling Rogues can also be great but are not tuned as well.  Size 5 Rapala Shad Raps in both deep diver and shallow runner are great lures.  The Berkley Flicker Shad is a solid lure.  There are many lures that work well and in the real world outside of promotional fishing, an angler is going to have several different lures in the box and good anglers are going to have four or five go to lures that they know will catch fish. 

I am not a big color fanatic but there are a handful of color schemes I like to experiment with.  I like to test gold versus silver and I also like to experiment with basic white/ dark back lures along with chartreuse or fire tiger patterns.  The rest however is a confidence game.  There are specific funky color patterns that just seem to have an aura on a specific fishery and most people are going to fish better with more confidence if they run some of these lures.  Often, color of lure confidence prophesizes success because anglers catch the most fish on what they have in the water the most and that often boils down to confidence."
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that last line is really interesting.

with that though, i think color matters a lot more than this guy does with shape being a close second. shape though tends to have a close correlation with color though (more/less color on the profile of the lure) and i suppose size could be tossed in there as well.

what i do know, is that the shad x rap in the larger body size (08) has caught walleyes as small as 10" and as large as 26" for me personally. it comes in a shallow and deep model to get to where the fish are.

same goes for the tail dancer. it comes in taildancer and deep tail dancer. same minnow body size goes to different depths. a company that specializes in the creation of fishing lures (although admittedly they target fishermen's wallets as much as fish) sees the importance of putting a certain size at all depths in the water column

As I've gotten older, I've concluded I've caught plenty of "regular" sized fish of all species.  So about the only thing I've done differently is spend more time fishing for the bigger fish.  As a result, I fish with bigger baits than earlier years.  May not catch as many fish, but I believe the average size is a bit larger.  I have favorite lures and colors, but also switch lures, color and depths when the fishing is slower than I want.

When it comes to fishing for Walleye in places like Wabakimi and I'm guessing Woodland Caribou (I'll find out this summer) I'm pretty sure I could catch my limit using a shoe lace and a safety pin.  These place are so non-pressured that fish will go after just about anything.  For those targeting trophy wallys, well that takes more skill, obviously, and shape, color and size of lure, presentation, retrieve, time of day, time of year and habitat are all going to matter.  When it comes to Walleye, I have two favorite lures for late summer fishing - Rapala Taildancers that run 15, 20 and 30 feet as well as deep diving L.C. Pointers which run about 12 to 15 feet.  In stained waters I like chartreuse and yellow and I always seem to have luck with firetiger. This summer I'm going to try a few Husky Jerks as well, I'm told blue is good.  God, I can't wait to get out there! 

I call this the right size for trolling in August if you want 18" eaters. I'd go bigger but that gets to be a pain and expensive. Less bite-offs too.
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@db, how does that color pattern work? i personally havent had much luck on the light blue/silver/orange combo. i have the deep husky jerk with the black back and silver sides with a kinda cream colored bottom and that works well.

jaximus wrote on May 9^th, 2012 at 9:44pm:

"Anglers often experiment between stick baits and shad profiled baits and both lure profiles have their place in walleye fishing.  The biggest lesson I have learned from my years trolling is to keep forcing yourself to try and retry different things.  Don’t live by the fishing rules so many anglers are quick to throw at you.  Matching the hatch for example is a joke with walleye fishing.  Many walleyes for example have never seen a night crawler or fire tiger minnow.  Force yourself to switch between shad profiles and minnow profiles and let the fish tell you.

This is basically my mantra for fishing: 

Keep trying different depths, actions, sizes, profiles, and colors until you find something that works.  Then try to refine it further if you can.  The first two are the most critical.  The last three can all be important...or not...depending on the mood of the fish.

jaximus wrote on May 10^th, 2012 at 12:39pm:

db, how does that color pattern work?

That lure was new to me last year. (August)  Blue always works for me mid-day and I like orange or some red on bellies and it was big so....

I used it on two lakes, one clear and one stained at two different times and locations on each. It always caught a walleye within 5 minutes. One liked it so much he hit it at the boat after I released him. The longest troll it went on ended when I noticed the vibration wasn't exactly quite right. That turned out to be a six inch eye. So YEAH! I like it! That's why I took the picture. I want to remember what it looked like so I can replace it after it gets bit off by a pesky northern or wedged between too rocks.

The longer I fish in the north the more convinced I am that the fish (and other inhabitants for that matter) are just plain more savage.

I was fishing below Kennebas falls early on morning (having camped on the portage trail that night having been a bit to tired and out of daylight to continue). I started out using a shad rap which seemed like a logical choice given the conditions........no dice. I tied on a super shad rap, basically a muskie/pike lure, to troll with in Kawanipi. Before I shoved off I decided to make a few casts in the falls and couldn't keep the 4 to 6lb walleyes off my line........they wanted it big. I had to make myself stop so I could get through Kawanipi before the wind cranked up. But the lesson was noted.

Another time on Suzanette I was fishing a muskie topwater prop bait that was at least 8" long. The smallies had no problem deciding it was something they wanted to smack.......

My motto? "Think big"............Of course you have to have the gear to handle it but that's another story. 

Maybe it the time of year, but small has been my go to strategy. I have caught almost all of my big pike on small lures. I just came out of quetico on sunday actually and between two canoes we had about 15 or more pike over 36 landed in our 8 day trip and it all happened in one spot... all the fish but one were one a 3inch flat rap. and over the years i have caught the majority of my big pike on that bait. including a 46 a couple years back. also a buddy i typically fish with almost exclusivly fishes a mistertwister casting all day and he will catch multipile big pike every year on that bait and ive even seen him catch big walleye on it too. on the flip side his brother spent 10 day period with us only fishing big baits as in muskey baits and did not catch any big pike on it. I have never gone later then june and that may have a part in it but for me shallow and small baits have been my big producers.

Most of my biggest pike (Northerns) have been caught on small bass that hit a jig and a tail in Springtime. ;D

I did use smaller lures for anything other than lakers on spring trips. Honestly, when the fishing is that good I really think location matters more than presentation.

DB,

I fish that same color pattern on the Rapala Husky Jerk HJ-14.  It works great for shallow walleye and pike.

With regard to pike, I am definitely in the big baits = big fish camp.  80% of the time when I am pike fishing, I'm throwing musky jerk baits, glide baits, bucktails, etc.  When I get tired, I'll downside to a big spoon or a #5 Mepps. 

Incidentally, fishing large lures does not necessarily keep the small fish from attacking.  A couple of years back I was trolling a 16" UKKO musky bait on Basswood when I felt the strike.  As you can imagine, I had visions on a monster pike hitting my 16" bait, so I set that hook pretty hard.  As it turned out, I ripped a 2" slot into the top jaw of a pike that was only about 18" long.

- Dave

Interesting discussion.  I just got out of the BWCA yesterday on a trip up to Crooked Lake, and the bigger popper worked much better than the smaller ones for smallies.  I don't know if I'd generalize about what's "usually" best--I will try just about anything if I'm not getting fish--but it sure is intersting how big of a difference size can make.

Sometimes I'll tie on a big popper just to watch the little fish try to hit it.

On my recent steel-head/brook trout fishing/camping trip, I was tossing steel-head sized spinners all day.
I caught some nice fish, but between the steel head, I was catching 10-12" Rainbows almost every cast.
Some could barely get the hooks in their mouths but that didn't stop them from trying ;D

I have to think color/presentation had a lot to do with that?

I mentioned before about Neversnag hooks.
Basically a stainless steel spring hook guard. They make single hooks and their treble hooks are just 2 hooks that ride point up when retrieved.

In hours of casting in fast moving water that was a combo of sand/rock and various sunken logs/debris, I only lost one lure and that was to a tree limb across the river about 20 ft up :-[

I'm convinced they work and will change over all my lures to them. At the price of quality lures, you don't want to lose any to snags if you can avoid them.

Minor highjack...

Steelhead vs. Rainbow?
They're the same species, right?  The difference being that the Steelhead has left the river for the ocean (or Great Lake) and returned to spawn?

ive never been a fan of the weedless type spring/wire/rubber/plastic hooks. ive always been afraid that in order for you to hook a fish solid you cant have anything in the way of the hook and in order for it to be weedless/snagless youd have to sacrifice hooking some fish. i dont really lose many lures because i run 20lb test braided line(i tried suffix 832 and its amazing!!). i can usually straighten out he hooks or they will pull through the rotten timber.

the only weedless type modifications i do are when using rubber worms and dipping the hook point back into the rubber, but with the extra wide gap worm hooks its ready to catch fish in an instant.

Quote:

author=Preacher link=1336441842/21#21 date=1338312219]Minor highjack... Steelhead vs. Rainbow? They're the same species, right?  The difference being that the Steelhead has left the river for the ocean (or Great Lake) and returned to spawn?

I thought that too, and it may be true, but I met a old guy up there (74) who was a dedicated river fisherman, had a custom jet boat set-up and everything. Retired at 56 and has been fishing ever since, even working as a guide for awhile.
According to him, a Steelhead besides spawning in the lake/ocean is a sub-species of the Rainbow?
He seemed very knowledgeable and fishes almost everyday from early spring to late November.
But I don't know for certain and would like to know if anyone knows for sure?

Jaximus,

I can't say for certain if I lost hook-ups using those NeverSnag hooks. I guess you'd have to have a underwater camera hook-up and do a side -by-side comparison to know.

All I know is that from nice sized Steel head to 10-12" rainbows, once on they never got off.
I take all the barbs of of my hooks and even then, unless I gave them slack so they could twist free, I had know problem.

They make a sampler pack with everything from pan fish sized single hooks to big double ones.
Would make a great X-mas stocking stuffer to try them out ;)

I was fishing #11 Tectan mono on a 10' cheap Whuppin Stik rod from Cabelas and big or small it worked great. Can't beat that for sale price of $22 and free shipping.

If I'm reading this right, then they are the same species changing appearance when the go to lake or sea. I see why people would say they were a sub-species, but it appears that isn't factual.

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most of my breaks and lunches at work revolve around reading this site and walleye central. i found this very interesting article that fits into this convo.

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I brought a new guy along on my recent QP trip.  He is an experienced angler.  He fished almost exclusively with small spinners: mepps and french spinners.  He out-caught us all!  He caught everything on these little spinners: northern, walleye, and bass. 

I was amazed.  I've never used spinners in the QP, but may try them on the next trip. 

prouboy

Every LT I've ever caught was on a spinner.
I stumbled upon these and like them a lot.
There Spring Frog Pattern is killer in early spring when the Lakers are in shallow.

Heavier weight spinners work well when the water heats up.
Rig them with those Never-Snag Hooks I'm high on, and you have a great set-up for casting/trolling any species.

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[quote author=solotripper link=1336441842/28#28 date=1339593094]Every LT I've ever caught was on a spinner.
I stumbled upon these and like them a lot.
There Spring Frog Pattern is killer in early spring when the Lakers are in shallow.
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What sizes do you prefer?
1,2,3,4,5?

Quote:

What sizes do you prefer? 1,2,3,4,5?

I have 2,3's. I talked to owner of company when I ordered and he recommended that size for early spring becasue he believes the natural bait is smaller and so the lure should match it.

I have a few colors other than Spring Frog. They have a red dot/white and the same in blue and orange. All work well, but Spring Frog has worked the best for me.
I like them because there heavy for size and you can cast them effectively from shore.

With the NeverSnag hooks added, they would be next to impossible to snag up which at the price of tackel nowadays is a good thing ;)