Permits - Looking for permit and license fee info, I saw mentioned that we need to get an "outdoors card". When I looked into what that is, the info there said it was only for Canada residents.
Which is correct?

Then I saw the $21.50/person/night Quetico camping fee.
:-?
WTF?
$129 each for the 3 of us I have to pay for = $387.00!!!
$23.00/conservation license = $69.00
So before we even get to any other expenses it is going to cost my 2 kids and me $456 to camp and fish for 6 days in the woods?
Did Canada import their politicians from IL?
What the heck happened?
If I had not been there before and didn't know what the Q was like, there's no way I'd do it. I can't figure out what they are trying to accomplish with that except screwing the Americans for every Loonie they can get.

Dogs - I have 2 small dogs. One Yorkie and one Brussels Griffon, both under 9 pounds each. Well behaved, I take them on camping trips on the WI river with no problems.
What is your opinion on bringing them along to Quetico?
The comment has been made that they would be good eagle food - any thoughts on that?

Firearms - I've never brought any before, but my brother is coming with and wants to bring one for "bear protection".
Any thoughts on that or arguments I could use either to discourage him from it or convince me that it's OK?

Any comments or suggestions are welcome and appreciated.

Outdoors cards are for fishing licenses.

Northern entries are less and kids are way cheaper than adults.
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Don't forget passports/BABC.

Can't help with current license/camp permit fees, as sadly I haven't been able to make a trip since some of the new requirements went into effect.

Guns, forget about it. No firearms in the Q and taking guns into Canada even for hunting trips, requires paperwork.

Get a couple of canisters of Bear Spray. Make sure you get a product that is labeled for Bears/Animals, NOT self defense. UDAP makes good ones, there are others as well. I'd get a canister for both adults.

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Dogs, plenty of people take their animals. If the dogs are well behaved that eliminates the issues on portages with animals not staying with their owners. If they bark incessantly, that could be a problem, even in the Q.

I don't know about Eagles taking your little dogs. There are plenty of them and I suppose they could if they wanted, but I'd be more concerned with a wolf or maybe lynx, deciding they would make a good snack than an eagle.
Also, PFD's are not just for people. I'd invest in a couple of doggie PFD's with the lifting handle on back in case one of the dogs decides to exit the canoe and can't climb back in.
Pretty sure the dogs shots/papers have to be up to date as well.

Adults need Passport or an Enhanced Drivers License. I think you need certified Birth certificates for the kids, but not sure.
db is right, cheaper going in from North( Canada). Might be worth the extra drive?

Way cheaper to stay in BWCA, but you pay for what you get, and until the Q loses it's luster to you, then you'll have to decide if it's worth the price.

Ahhh, no pepper spray in Canada either.  Everyone needs a passport - birth certificates for minors do not qualify.  Also, if you take minors you will need a written/signed/notarized letter from the other parent(s) that states that they are aware that they are being taken to Canada by you.

Bear attack?  Eagle eating your dog?  You're not serious right?

It's only $15 per night if you enter from the north.  Outdoors card - $10.  7 day conservation - $23

$135.00 for a week in Quetico = bargain.

solotripper wrote on Jun 13^th, 2012 at 10:28pm:

Guns, forget about it. No firearms in the Q and taking guns into Canada even for hunting trips, requires paperwork. Dogs, plenty of people take their animals. If the dogs are well behaved that eliminates the issues on portages with animals not staying with their owners. If they bark incessantly, that could be a problem, even in the Q. I don't know about Eagles taking your little dogs. There are plenty of them and I suppose they could if they wanted, but I'd be more concerned with a wolf or maybe lynx, deciding they would make a good snack than an eagle. Way cheaper to stay in BWCA, but you pay for what you get, and until the Q loses it's luster to you, then you'll have to decide if it's worth the price.

Thanks for the responses.
No guns it is. Simple.
My brother has been up there twice before with me, his wife was instigating the gun talk I think. They are both Army vets and she has never been camping before outside of her enlistment.

My dogs bark very little, just usually at other dogs and I hope bears - that would help. They are the size of large rabbits, so the eagle food thought is a possibility. I am NOT bringing up the wolf snack angle, my daughter will freak out. I think they'll be fine, they don't usually wander more than a few yards from us during camping trips.

The Q is worth it to me, I was just shocked at the price considering it was under $5/night last time I went over a decade ago. It is a $300 expense I was not planning on.

We have our Agnes permit for Aug. 4 already, so I'll be biting the bullet and shelling out the dough. I've been on 17 trips in the Q and the BWCAW so far, and I do appreciate the differences. I was just surprised that the Canuks jacked the prices up to this level. Like the first time I saw the $2.80 toll that IL put up right over the WI border.
Except that the Q is worth it.

Ontario crownland is $9/night last I checked.

6 nights thru PP ... $331. I believe, not positive, but I believe your kids don't need fishing licenses if you're with them as they are basically included under your fishing license and count towards your daily/posession limit.

Does an RABC include whole families?

I don't ever remember fees being $5 a night. Maybe $6.50 off season in the early 80's and I've always wondered if BW trips were taxpayer subsidized. What would that same six night stay cost the three of you there? ~$32?

RABC can cover your dependants, only if you listed them on your application and provided their documentation when you applied for one.  If you did, the RABC will list them on it when you get it in the mail.  Therefor, the permit only covers those individuals specifically listed on it.

If you are entering the Q from the north at any time of year (early, reg season, or late), you won't need a RABC as you cleared customs on your way in, as you crossed the border.

"I don't ever remember fees being $5 a night."

I remember when they used to call it a "firewood fee" at $2 per person per night, then it went up to $5 per, and kept climbing


so Pondo, you do get the deal on the RABC right ?  no customs stations at Prairie Portage anymore like there was when the fee was $5 a night, so you have to have the Remote Area Border Crossing permit or you can't cross the border (it is more or less a pre-approved clearance through customs)  and you still need the passports for legal re-entry into US as you are supposed to stop in Ely or nearest US Customs on your return.

also changed from the past, fishing lures you use must be barbless (mash down the barbs is ok) and no live bait

the Ontario Outdoors card is required for residents and non-residents alike - you can buy the card and your fishing licenses online ahead of time

YOU HAVE TO GET YOUR LICENSE AND OUTDOORS CARD AHEAD OF TIME - THEY CAN NOT ISSUE THEM AT PRAIRIE PORTAGE ANYMORE - due to the electonic system that is being used for licensing now (same for Atikokan Office - you now have to do it online, or go to an outfitter that has the right machine)

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[quote author=Mad_Mat link=1339613111/8#8 date=1339677900]so Pondo, you do get the deal on the RABC right ?  no customs stations at Prairie Portage anymore like there was when the fee was $5 a night, so you have to have the Remote Area Border Crossing permit or you can't cross the border (it is more or less a pre-approved clearance through customs)  and you still need the passports for legal re-entry into US as you are supposed to stop in Ely or nearest US Customs on your return.

also changed from the past, fishing lures you use must be barbless (mash down the barbs is ok) and no live bait

the Ontario Outdoors card is required for residents and non-residents alike - you can buy the card and your fishing licenses online ahead of time

YOU HAVE TO GET YOUR LICENSE AND OUTDOORS CARD AHEAD OF TIME - THEY CAN NOT ISSUE THEM AT PRAIRIE PORTAGE ANYMORE - due to the electonic system that is being used for licensing now (same for Atikokan Office - you now have to do it online, or go to an outfitter that has the right machine)

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Thanks again for the replies.

My kids are over 18, so unfortunately the savings do not apply.

I just talked to an outfitter yesterday and she said that they still did the licensing at the ranger station, but she recommended getting it ahead of time because of the long time it takes due to the electronic system being so slow there.
I will be getting them ahead of time from that link you posted, thanks for that.

I bought my licenses and outdoors cards online - no problems (even got a courtesy call from the park telling me the Atikokan station did not sell licences)

Guns? I used to think the same thing. When I was young (and stupid) I used to sneek them into Canada (and Mexico - very stupid) - Have you ever seen a bear while camping in Quetico?? Not me in 8 or so trips, only while driving. Probably more likely to see a wolf or a moose. I've seen more sign of them than bears. Even if you see a bear the chance you'll need to defend yourself is very slim.

Just spent $180 for 6 nights in Q for two of us. Worth it to me!

I guess you can still buy the lic and outdoors card at Prairie Portage (and Cache Bay)  - according to the note below, anyways -

"From the reservations website:
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Quote:

Fishing licenses are required for fishing and must be in your possession. Licenses will not be available for purchase at the following Backcountry/Interior park ranger stations in 2012: Beaverhouse, Lac La Croix, and Atikokan. You are advised to purchase a license prior to your arrival at an outside issuer or online:
External Website Link: Ontario Outdoors Card online
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Quote:

Ahhh, no pepper spray in Canada either.

Good point. There is a distinction between the two that some people might not realize.
Unless there has been a change, it used to be you could bring a product labeled for Bears/wild animals use ONLY not for humans, and that was legal.

Bear Spray is way stronger than Pepper Spray designed for commercial sale and labeled for self defense.

Unless that's changed, a can of spray with a Bear Picture/symbol is fine, a can with a picture of a mugger being sprayed isn't.

I'd ask outfitter to be safe but I know they sell Bear Spray in the BWJ and Piragis catalogs and I don't re-call it says for US use only?

I think you have the jist of it.   On comment I think may be misstated about passports-

From the US Customs and Border Protection site:  U.S. citizen children ages 15 and under arriving by land or sea from a contiguous territory may present an original or copy of his or her birth certificate (issued by the Vital Records Department in the state where he or she was born), a Consular Report of Birth Abroad, or a Naturalization Certificate.

Also:  U.S. citizen children between the ages of 16-18 arriving by land or sea from contiguous territory and traveling with an adult supervised school group, religious group, social or cultural organization, or sports team, may also present an original or copy of his or her birth certificate, a Consular Report of Birth Abroad, or a Naturalization Certificate.

But then the  "kids" are 18 and over, so have to have passports and pay adult Quetico permit rates.

The previous Q superintendedn - Robin Reilly - commented at Copia several years ago that in Canada, you pay to go camping but if you break your knee, your taxes pay to fix it.  In the US, the camping is cheap, the knee repair not so much.

I love the soliditude of the Q and find it priceless.

Your brother wants to bring a gun?  Will your brother inherit the family fortune if you die in the wilderness?  Reminds me of when I was a kid and my family tried to teach me how to swim by throwing me overboard in the middle of the lake (they weren't teaching me how to swim).
It's a good idea to bring a gun to protect yourself from the other guys you're camping with if you tend to get drunk in the evenings and everybody has a loaded pistol. You never know when someone might bump into you or disrespect you.

Rocky wrote on Jun 16^th, 2012 at 8:52pm:

Your brother wants to bring a gun?  Will your brother inherit the family fortune if you die in the wilderness?  Reminds me of when I was a kid and my family tried to teach me how to swim by throwing me overboard in the middle of the lake (they weren't teaching me how to swim). It's a good idea to bring a gun to protect yourself from the other guys you're camping with if you tend to get drunk in the evenings and everybody has a loaded pistol. You never know when someone might bump into you or disrespect you.

A little off subject, unrelated, and a bit out of line, don't you think?
Having the ability to protect yourself from a bear, moose, or other people, no matter how small the actual risk of needing it, is an actual constitutional right in the US.
My question was specifically about taking a personal self defense weapon into Canada, that is all.
And if you would have read the posts on this thread you would know that the decision was already made to NOT bring one.
I'm sorry to hear about the emotional scars your family inflicted on you, but that's not related in any way to the question I asked here.

I apologize.  My attempt at humor.

Rocky wrote on Jun 18^th, 2012 at 2:54pm:

I apologize.  My attempt at humor.

I guess I worded it a little harshly, I am used to people posting comments like you did but really meaning them. Now that I have my head out of my hinder I can see the humor in your post. It's hard to convey some things in a post.
No disrespect intended.

Please hold your fire.  :)

Yes, fishing licenses and outdoor cards are available at PP.  Just got one there last week.  They had two rangers on duty and one did my license while the other did my permit.

I think it did speed things up to have brought my Outdoors Card along with me, even though it expired last year.  The info on it kept me from having to fill out a new application or a lengthy process to look up my info.