You guys are probably way ahead of me on this but I just broke down and purchased a Fast Bucksaw saw and a Littlbug senior stove. Wow!! Both are great additions to my camping gear.
We all have tools that do the work, but only occasionally do you find a tool that gives you pleasure using it; I would suggest that the Fast Bucksaw is one of the few. First and foremost it cuts like a dream, but then as you get to opening and closing it it becomes evident just how much thought has gone into refining the design. Beautiful work!
Some time ago I made a twig stove from one of those chimney charcoal briquet lighter things that you can find in the hardware stores. It works well and I've had a lot of fun fooling with it. But no matter how well I like it, it is heavy and no way will it collapse and pack neatly. So after looking at all the offerings on the market, I bought the littlbug senior.  It's the larger of the two and well made with stainless steel that doesn't feel the least bit flimsy when you get it set up. For me that was one of the most important considerations; don't want the fire escaping or for me to get scalded with a tipped over pot of boiling water. As it comes, it has no bottom to hold the fire so I'm experimenting with various configurations of cake pans and what not on the bottom to hold the fire and more or less insulate the ground from the heat. A work in progress.
What I can tell you so far is that the stove shields the fire from the wind well and would allow me to have a fire under conditions that I wouldn't dare have a open campfire. I'm learning what size of sticks/chunks of wood will produce a sustainable fire with out the necessity of hovering over it all the time. The pot supports allow you room to feed the fire without removing the pot most times. There is a carrying case that you must buy extra but I'm glad I did because it allows all four parts of the stove to be packed neatly and keeps the soot controlled.
All in all I'm glad I got both of the Fast Bucksaw and the Littlbug sn. stove and if your looking for a saw or a stove I recommend them.
Best Wishes, Rob 

Rob,

Thanks for the report.  I've been on the verge of adding the LittleBug to my Toys Wish List.  Your endorsement puts me that much closer to actually buying the danged thing (the "Senior" LittleBug, that is) the next time I see one "on sale."

By the way, here is a really nice video of Harlan putting this unit to the test:    (You need to Login or Register

Jimbo   8-)

Here's the rest of the demonstration:    (You need to Login or Register

Jimbo   8-)

Thanks Jimbo, a little follow up on the stove: On the senior stove, a cake pan of at least 8 !/2" will fit the base of the stove. I have tried a configuration of one cake pan (right side up) holding the stove and fire and a second cake pan directly underneath (upside down). My idea with the second pan was to insulate the ground from the heat of the fire. Didn't work worth beans, scorched and killed the grass underneath. Maybe the way to go is with only one pan and support it with stones or sticks or something. I do know that if you set the one pan on anything combustible it will sure enough catch fire. As I say, a work in progress.
For me the whole reason behind the stove was to have some way to have a small controllable fire under my tarp on those days when the rain just won't let up.
Best Wishes, Rob

Oldie Moldy wrote on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 6:21pm:

On the senior stove, a cake pan of at least 8 !/2" will fit the base of the stove. I have tried a configuration of one cake pan (right side up) holding the stove and fire and a second cake pan directly underneath (upside down). My idea with the second pan was to insulate the ground from the heat of the fire. Didn't work worth beans, scorched and killed the grass underneath.

If you have an interest in going this direction, you might consider using a   (You need to Login or Register.  Some park/wilderness areas do not permit campfires directly on the forest floor.  You can make a fire on the fire blanket (with a layer of mineral soil on top as additional insulation) and it doesn't bother what is underneath.  I've had occasion to use one in the Sawtooth Range of Idaho.  It worked very well for that purpose (but a pain to carry the additional weight in my backpack).

dd

Oldie Moldy wrote on Jun 16^th, 2012 at 2:28pm:

We all have tools that do the work, but only occasionally do you find a tool that gives you pleasure using it; I would suggest that the Fast Bucksaw is one of the few. First and foremost it cuts like a dream, but then as you get to opening and closing it it becomes evident just how much thought has gone into refining the design. Beautiful work!

Somewhere along the line I wrote a mini review of the Fast Bucksaw and I couldn't agree with you more, Rob.  Many folks don't carry a saw at all but for those that do this is the best there is, in my opinion.  I've been using mine for only a couple of years but, like you, Rob, I admire the craftsmanship, quality and design every time I use it.  It is a world apart from the Sven I'd been using for the past 35 years (until it finally gave up the ghost.)

Kerry wrote on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 9:13pm:

Oldie Moldy wrote on Jun 16th, 2012 at 2:28pm: We all have tools that do the work, but only occasionally do you find a tool that gives you pleasure using it; I would suggest that the Fast Bucksaw is one of the few. First and foremost it cuts like a dream, but then as you get to opening and closing it it becomes evident just how much thought has gone into refining the design. Beautiful work! Somewhere along the line I wrote a mini review of the Fast Bucksaw and I couldn't agree with you more, Rob.  Many folks don't carry a saw at all but for those that do this is the best there is, in my opinion.  I've been using mine for only a couple of years but, like you, Rob, I admire the craftsmanship, quality and design every time I use it.  It is a world apart from the Sven I'd been using for the past 35 years (until it finally gave up the ghost.)

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Another candidate:    (You need to Login or Register, but alas, mine lies at the bottom of Buldging Lake in WCPP after last year's trip.  The saw cuts exceptionally well and has the advantage of "no assembly required."  Flip open and you are on your way (with two open locking positions).  An added plus is that your hand is separated from the blade location by a fair distance and you have no depth limit on your cut.  Furthermore, the rubberized handle is long enough to use both hands.  I guess I should mention that the tool is likely of Japanese design, meaning that you tend to cut on the draw rather than the push (although it does cut both ways).

Oddly, it is in the same 1 pound weight class with very similar product costs.

dd

Thanks Denton Doc, that fire blanket sure is an interesting idea. If a person could cross breed them with a Cookies custom tarp you could wind up with a tarp you couldn't burn holes in!
Right now I'm working on a set-up (on the littlbug) where I spread four or five nuts between the two cake pans leaving an air gap of about 5/16". And my new secret weapon is stolen from my wife's kitchen; it's a stainless steel thing that holds vegetables up from the bottom of the pot while you steam them. It folds up and looks something like a flower with many petals made of pierced metal. It has three little legs that lift it about 5/8". What I'm hoping is that it will act like a fire grate and allow better burning and perhaps allow some slight separation of heat from the bottom of the pan.
Who knows? But it's fun fiddling with it.
Hey Kerry, Looking at that Fast Bucksaw, I wonder how many revisions it has gone through to refine it to where it is today. I can imagine someone sitting at the kitchen table on a long winter's evening, making drawings and considering. He sure made a great design. Where I go camping it's been pretty much picked over and all the easy fire wood is gone, so this saw will really serve me.
Best Wishes, Rob

Oldie Moldy wrote on Jun 18^th, 2012 at 12:52pm:

Right now I'm working on a set-up (on the littlbug) where I spread four or five nuts between the two cake pans leaving an air gap of about 5/16".

Perhaps I'm a bit more weight conscious than you, but the I too use a spacer between flat surfaces to add a gap.  On my recent trip I used this method to cook cake/muffins via the "steam vat"method.  I placed the item to be cooked into a shallow (cake) pan and then placed that pan into a pot containing perhaps a 1/4" of water and resting on the spacers.  The steam actually cooks the item, which isn't browned, but EXTRA moist!

Oh.  My "light weight" spacers ... small flat rocks I find at the campsite.  I don't actually carry the spacers and if I loose one, there is usually another close about.  (Like the twisted cord clothes line, its a trick I picked up from backpacking.)

dd

Oldie Moldy,

I made a Flashing oven that you can use over stove/fire.
For the lid you use a pie tin, but I wanted a way to check on the baked goods, so I cut out a large hole and made a inspection port out of one of the silicone baking sheets.

That's a long way of saying that the high temp silicone pad stays cool enough to the touch that I can use my hand to open and close it.

Cut one bigger than the pie pan and lay between your up/down pans and see if that doesn't keep the earth from scorching?
Weighs zilch and folds up to nothing.

I have the Littlebug junior and I like it very much, it works great. I am happy that I don't need to carry a bottle of fuel, especially for longer trips.
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LittlBug's are great. I have 3 of them for no good reason.

I suggest you give up the saw for a LittlBug. Instead, get some Fiskars loppers and a splitting baton like this:

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Lop up some beaver wood sticks, use the baton for kindling, and you can burn away.

Hi, thanks for the reference to the splitting baton. Actually I use my old Estwing hatchet just about like that! For quite a while I carried my axe camping but in the interest of weight savings and pure utility I've switched over to the hatchet. Pondering the whole chopping thing it seems that you are opening (pardon the pun) yourself up to the possibility of an serious accident when there is a technique that will reduce the wood down without chopping.  My hatchet has a one piece head/handle with a blue plastic grip. The only modification I've found useful is to wrap a bulb of friction tape near to the head to permit the user to "choke up" closer to the head for more control. That steel shaft is just too slim for me to grip comfortably. I use this setup primarily when I'm making something.
Another option is the Ontario knife company's RAT knives. I bought the RAT-7 and it's a great knife and works well to split the wood when hit with a club. Deciding between the rat and the hatchet was hard, in the end I picked the hatchet mainly because I can hammer in wedges when splitting and also tent pegs. Actually that's one of my favorite rainy-day-under-the-tarp activities; splitting that horribly twisted-grain block of wood down into fire sized bits.
Best Wishes, Rob

Solo Tripper, Gosh don't know how I missed your great idea about the silicone pad used for insulation! Going to the hardware store now to check them out.
Sorry I didn't respond at the time, wouldn't want anyone to think I'm a pigeon-toed ingrate! Just part blind.
Best Wishes, Rob

Oldie Moldy wrote on Jul 7^th, 2012 at 5:01pm:

Solo Tripper, Gosh don't know how I missed your great idea about the silicone pad used for insulation! Going to the hardware store now to check them out. Sorry I didn't respond at the time, wouldn't want anyone to think I'm a pigeon-toed ingrate! Just part blind. Best Wishes, Rob

Been giving some more thought to your problem.
If my silicone pad idea doesn't do the trick alone, I have another thought that may be of some use?

What if you cut a series of holes around the sides of your upside down pan, say 3/4-1" with a hole saw maybe 1" apart. This would allow heat to disperse and hopefully combined with silicone pad, solve the ground scorching problem?
Side benefit is you'll lighten your kit a little bit.

the LittlBug gets really hot. it will melt aluminum pie pans or plates used as as base.

LittlBug sells a stainless steel version that is pricey but works.

I suppose you could use several sheets of foil and just accept that it might melt and pack it out.

Quote:

the LittlBug gets really hot. it will melt aluminum pie pans or plates used as as base.

What would happen if you put a layer of dirt/sand in the aluminum pie plate before you build your fire?
Or would it melt the sides anyway?

I was never that clever. Might work. For me, the bottom melted.

How about the brush buddy? Anyone have any experience with these? Thinking about getting one for a little hiking.

  (You need to Login or Register

[quote author=mastertangler link=1339856898/18#18 date=1341714199]How about the brush buddy? Anyone have any experience with these? Thinking about getting one for a little hiking.

  (You need to Login or Register
what is it? all I could find was a dog's toothbrush.

My fault. For some reason the link did not appear on my screen right away.

That looks nice enough. But compared to the LittlBug it seems more dedicated to a solo trip for boiling water.

The LittlBug Sr. is good for 2, maybe 4, people. It can boil alot of water and you can keep feeding it wood. It can be a little campfire also if it is not too cold. The LittlBug Sr. is large enough that you do not have to be too fussy about buidling the fire. Just get a bunch of pine needles, pine cones, and little twigs and fire it up. Then add gradually bigger pieces. That is where the lopper comes in handy You can make quick work of beaver sticks or branches.

The LittlBug packs down pretty small also. Not the lightest imaginable but reasonable.

M.T.  I looked at your Brushbuddy and although it looks well made, I decided to try the Littlbug sn. because it packs down so neatly. That's the hard thing, buying from what you can see off the computer screen. In the best of all worlds you could have both at hand and then decide. One of my serious questions was how stable the Littlbug sn would be when you assembled it, the thing locks up well once the little pegs snap into the proper holes. Then placing the stove into a steel cake pan (not included) gives it a real stable base. My stove measures just about 8 1/8 dia. which I'm confident will hold all my pots without the danger of tipping over. I don't think I would want to try to put an aluminum cake pan directly under the stove, I use a steel one. My second upside down one is made of aluminum. My latest separate the two pans plan is to use five 5/15 nuts spaced evenly about. It seems to be working.
Best Wishes, Rob

Yes, I agree, the brushbuddy looks particularly suitable for boiling water with a 16oz stainless steel cup (solo)...........don't think I would trust it with a larger pot.........If I'm not mistaken burns from cooking are the #1 injury in the backcountry........especially to feet..........so beware you sandal clad cookers (Um, that would be me).

Yep Mastertangler, I can see how sandals could be a problem, for me I've always thought of a boot full of hot soup and trying to get the laces undone.
So far this summer I haven't been able to take it camping but that Littlbug sure impresses me playing with it on the lawn. My main goal with it is to have a way to have a small fire under my tarp on rainy days. Of course if my old kerosene roarer stove craps out I'll sure use the Littlbug for cooking too. In all my fiddling I've had a large pot of water on top, any number of uses for hot water and the pot acts as a flame deflector. Wouldn't want a straight shot up to my beloved synthetic tarp. Holding my hand above it, all around, I can't feel anything more than warm. We'll see, wouldn't be the first time one of my ideas didn't work out.
Best Wishes, Rob

Just ordered Littlbug Sr. from campsaver.com. at 45.00 it's a good price, throw in a pot gripper that I needed anyway and the shipping was free on the order over 50.00.   Butt they also sell tack 180 stoves   (You need to Login or Register . Has anyone heard of or used these before?

I really like that 180 Tack stove.
Will have to look for any reviews comparing the Little Bug stoves or other similar item to it.
Like the ease of assembly.

I like the idea of the Tack, but I envision one of those cold spring mornings when EVERYTHING is soaking wet, and me trying to get something to burn.  What do Tack aficionados do in these cases? 

prouboy

mastertangler wrote on Jul 9^th, 2012 at 1:58am:

If I'm not mistaken burns from cooking are the #1 injury in the backcountry.

I took a wilderness first aid responder (WMI) course a few years ago. Our instructor started the class by asking everyone what they thought the #1 first aid issue was in the backcountry.  No one got it right.  People guessed: burns, abrasions, hypothermia, dehydration, sprains, bug bites....etc, etc.

Answer: upset stomachs!! -- caused in most cases from lack of personal hygiene!  Like not washing hands before eating and after bathroom breaks, sharing water bottles, and community grab-bag eating of gorp, etc. 

The instructors (they were also wilderness guides) said they are continually amazed at how once in the bush, folks forget about basic hygiene rules, and then they pay the price! 

prouboy

Excellent reminder Prouboy..........I would be exhibit 1 in this regard........

The in juries associated with cooking info still left a notable impression on me.......(no pun intended ;D)

Anyone that has served in the military knows how much they stress the keeping of basic hygiene/sanitation practices even in the harshest environments if at all possible.

Dysentery has/will change the course of a battle and indeed history itself.

These discussions of what is the number one danger are fun but in reality don't we face all kinds of potential threats? Usually we manage to get past most of them unscathed. I would humbly suggest that what is really important is the mindset we bring to the problem/task.
When I was a little kid I had a friend who was a more or less retired sheepherder. This was back in the day when an old man and a boy could be friends without all kinds of suggestions of buggery and whatnot. Anyway...he had almost unlimited patience with all my questions. I asked him if he wasn't worried when he was out all alone, maybe break a leg or something? "Yep", he said "but the thing to do was slow down and think. Don't try to bull your way through a piece of work". And scowling at me, "Keep your mind on your work, save the woolgathering for the campfire".
All these years later his words still ring true. I can be working at some small fiddly task and thinking that after this I'll do these other things and then I can get back into that book again and then, DANG!! that hurt, wonder if I ought to get stitches. Serves me right; woolgathering. Again.
Don't know what's coming after this, but I would sure would like to talk to him again, he was a good old man.
Best Wishes, Rob   

Quote:

All these years later his words still ring true. I can be working at some small fiddly task and thinking that after this I'll do these other things and then I can get back into that book again and then, DANG!! that hurt, wonder if I ought to get stitches. Serves me right; woolgathering. Again.

Excellent advice. For anyone who's traveling alone being in the moment is a lesson that the sooner learned the better off you are.

Every tumble/misstep/temporary getting lost etc, came when I took what I was doing or going for granted and started looking to far ahead. You want to be thinking about your next step literally.

And it is sad that when strangers see a young kid talking with someone that isn't a relative they think the worst. Sign of the times but sad nonetheless.

My earlier note may have been missed, so I'll raise it again.

Regarding this stove...  I like the idea of it burning natural things, the weight of it, and not having to pack gas. BUT I wonder how it does on those days (we've all had them) when it's cold and everything is absolutely soaking wet.  Starting a fire in this stove with wet leaves, etc....  Anyone have experience with the littlbug stove in this situation?

prouboy

Hi Prouboy, Sorry, I guess I missed it.  I've never had all that much luck with wet material. Under those conditions usually I look for standing dead wood or dead branches I can break off with a stick. If I can get a fire going using nearly dry wood then sometimes it works to pile the wetter stuff over the top or along side the fire. I have found that if the wood was dead but just wet from rain the center part is often still dry enough to burn, so I split it up so the center parts are available to the fire. However if it was soaking in a pond I don't even try. That doesn't really answer your question but that's as close as I've ever come.
Best Wishes, Rob

Also, always a good idea to have dry kindling along with you that you've gathered on your travel...scraps of birch bark, etc. Doesn't weigh much, can be tucked into a pocket. Obviously, if you've got a week of rain and are travelling through it, that isn't so easy to sustain.

Prouboy, Re-reading the question you asked about how does the Littlbug work with wet stuff, I think, maybe, we have a little disconnect here. Probably it's caused by the (over) enthusiastic  owner of the new stove. As I understand it, all of these "twig stoves" in one way or another work so well because they provide some draft effect, hot air rising up a chimney, shelter from unhelpful wind and reflection of heat back to the center of the burning material. All these factors allow the burning of some over looked and spurned fuels; twigs, pine cones, buffalo chips etc.
But, if the intended fuel is truly wet, then your fire making efforts are (pardon the pun) dead in the water.
On the off chance that someone might mistake me for a competent fire starter, I must confess I cheat and use a vaseline soaked cotton ball to get thing going.
Best Wishes, Rob 

Those conditions are exactly why IMHO anyone who wants/needs a fire brings a small saw big enough to cut a piece of downed wood that even if wet will have a dry center (heart).

Something to split it and initially a fire starter of some kind to get things going.
Birch bark is great and If you run across some, it's a good idea to stash some in a zip lock.

I'm partial to my paraffin wax/ dryer lint/ cardboard egg carton homemade firestarters.
I've added a trick b-day candle center wick to give it a little extra bang.

The magnesium powder in the candlewick makes these burn hot/fast, enough to light even the wettest wood, but the dryer the fuel source the less smoke, although if the bugs are bad, excess smoke might be a good thing..

Yeah, I was thinking those firestarters would be good with this.  I have a bag full.  Question on the trick candles -- where and how do you use them?  I never could quite figure that out.  Got pictures?

prouboy

Here's a quick tutorial of how I make my "enhanced" wax/lint fire starters.
Sorry I don't have pics.

Melt 1 lb paraffin wax. It's extremely flammable, so to be safe, do it this way.
Take a large tin coffee can that is bent in enough to form a pouring spout.
Put wax in can and set in large pan of boiling water to melt wax.

Take a CARDBOARD egg carton and in each section put a piece of dryer lint.
I roll some in a ball between my palms, you want a piece about the size of a large marble.
Have the lint in place in all sections before you add the melted wax.

While wax is melting, take those trick b-day candles that you can buy in party shops or even a good supermarket. There the kind that you can't blow out no matter how you try.
Cut each candle in half.

Pour wax into carton molds and wait till it starts to set, but not to long and stick the candle straight into the center of fire cube. You want it to get into the lint ball. It should stay straight up unless the wax is to hot.

Let them cool and tear into individual sections. Leave the cardboard on. I put a few in a zip lock bag and put one bag in all my packs.
Build a small tepee of little twigs/branches with fire starter under/inside it.
Light the candle and as the magnesium ignites it sets the small candle melting which ignites the dryer lint which sets the paraffin going. It burns very hot.
Will light wet wood and get the base going for a bigger fire.

I think in a pinch it would burn hot/long enough to heat water in small cup/pot for a quick warm-up in an emergency.

Afew updated comments. I finished an 11 day Quetico trip and a 4 day Canada camping/fishing trip using the LittlBug every day, usually 2-3 times per day.

Aluminum foil does work ok as a bottom. We put the Bug on a cooking grate suche that the coals would otherwise fall out the bottom. We used 3 layers of aluminum foil as a bottom liner and it never melted. Might be different if placed on solid ground but worked fine for us.

It worked great for boiling water in the rain. We had one demoralizing day in Quetico that was cold, windy, and raining all day long. Never even got in the canoe. My buddy firedup the stove for a spaghetti meal, no problem. He did use a fire starter. Having a stash of dry kindling is handy. I have a large bag made out of lightweight blue tarp material (50 cents at Ikea) that packs to nothing but is great for collecting and storing little sticks. That plus a small lopping tool makes for quick work of wood. Once the fire is lit, a few coal form, and you load it up with thicker sticks, you can put on a pan of water. I use a 4 qt aluminum pan with lid. Nearly covers the top of the Bug and makes it water resistent. No way we could have made a camp fire, especially with the gusting wind, but the Bug fired up.

On the other hand, you really don't need any tricks. It works well if you can otherwise build a decent fire. But a lopper, some gloves, a wood bag make life much easier.

I'm glad you Littlbug and loppers worked for you on your trip! The idea of loppers never entered my mind but what with the new Fast bucksaw I'm kinda invested in the saw for now.
My next big mad scientist project is to make some of those fire-starters with the birthday candle! My stars! When did paraffin get to be so expensive? Thanks Solotripper for the instructions!
Best Wishes, Rob

I may bring a littlbug on my next trip.  However, I'll also bring a gas stove backup, (but with less gas).  If the littlbug can provide 80% of my heating needs, it will save me weight and gas.  The gas stove then becomes Plan B when the weather is really crappy and miserable.  That's the plan, for now.

prouboy

I take a LittlBug Sr. and a Minibull alcohol stove. Works great for dehydrated meals, boiling water, and a little "campfire" from the Bug.

`What do you guys think of those little home made pop can alcohol stoves as back ups to the twig burners ? The littlbug and it's brothers all seem to allow their use. 4 or 5 ounces of denatured alcahol should be good for half a dozen times when nothing dry can be found without spitting wood.  If nothing else,a small splash of alcohol ought to start anything better than a sponge on fire.   A while back,someone in BWJ suggested carrying hand sanitizer as a fire starter. I like my little one burner coleman,but it is kind of bulky and too stinky to keep with my food in my blue barrel.   Making hot water in the mornig would'nt be harder splashing a littie alcohol in that little can stove and touching it off with my bick lighter than getting the larger stove going   . sounds good on paper... :o

I do just that. I take a Minibull, the model with the tube so that it will run on alcohol indefinitely. It is tiny and fist inside another model of Minibull made out of a beer can. That one takes and oz or two of methanol which is fine for boiling 1-2 cups of water for coffee or hot chocolate. The Minibull is good for frying fish, baking coffee cake, simmering rice, etc. I don't cook on the LittlBug apart from boiling water. It can boil a lot of water fast so it is great for dehydrated meals and it works well in wind and rain. it would not be hard to cook with though if you committed to it. I would suggest some type of diffuser disk to temper the heat.