I'm in the middle of planning my trip to Quetico and I am going to be fishing a deep lake with a known population of lakers and BIG pike.
In doing research on lakers, I have read many "how to" articles on catching them. The common thread in them is a suggestion or even a "rule" that you use small baits, usually small spoons and spinners.

I have a different idea.

I plan on using large baits like big Daredevil spoons and large pike sized crankbaits. I will be looking for mid lake humps and main lake points on the main basin, focusing on deep water near inlets or swampy (mesotrophic) bays.
I have an educated guess that the largest pike and lakers use the same structure when feeding on pelagic baitfish during the summer. Structure that is not usually fished, or fished with those small "laker" baits. I plan on using musky sized jigs and salt water crankbaits run deep with inline weight added (I did see the fish looking weight thread, but I have the same fear of a fish hitting the sinker). I have a handfull of 8-10" crankbaits and jigs, inline weights up to 4 Oz, and 30# line all set to go.
The last time we tried jigging 6" Kahlin's grubs on a main lake point my cousin caught a 34" 12# walleye (Sunday lake, but I will NOT tell which point  ;) ). That got me sold on large baits. I have caught walleye up to 7# on large jigs and smallies over 6# on large crankbaits in Quetico since then.

So am I right in my thinking or am I all wet?
What do you think of my plan - would you bet on me being skunked?
Any comments or ideas would be appreciated.

They seem to like structure as much as any fish except it's deeper or near deeper water at least.

I've never used spoons due to the possible tangle factor but have used 1/4 - 3/8 oz silver tinsel jigs with good success (even trolling 'em) but normally it's trolling deep diving silver/blue cranks for me.

A friend of mine always swore by perch fat raps trolled slowly. In Summer I don't think it's possible to paddle too fast and when you get that telltale nip-nip, give it all you got. IMO LAkers are like bass - an aggressive fish that will hit anything they think might get away just to see how it tastes.

Do fish have taste buds?

seems to me that any time I try trolling with big spoons, they start twirling and twist the hell out of the line - maybe ok if going really slow - I'd try just drifting a big spoon going with the wind, just jigging a bit,  if its slow enough;  otherwise, its usually a rapala or wally diver that goes deep that works for me on lake trout

but I use big plugs too - was using an 8" silver/blue that works well on big pike (only caught one this year, if you want to humor me and say 35" is big, or at least a little big) and waleye (forget the brand - likely something I got at wal-mart or dick's) - even smaller 15" waleye were hitting on that - nice thing, its heavy and can be cast a long way

I figure most fish are going to go after what they can see, and I'd guess that a bigger lure could be seen a little bit farther ?

I think this approach would work, but numbers wise for lakers, slightly smaller stuff  (but still large) would work better. They definitely will hit large lures though. They regularly eat small lakers more than 12-14 inches long so.... One thing, I think you will get more lakers with large flutter spoons, like the large Northern King type salmon spoons, as opposed to large wobbling spoons like daredevles. Of course the pike will hit anything. Also don't discount large 'regular' plugs like the number 18 floating rap.

Moonman.

Quote:

seems to me that any time I try trolling with big spoons, they start twirling and twist the hell out of the line - maybe ok if going really slow

I had the same problem. I was told by a avid fisherman friend that to avoid that problem it was imperative you use a good swivel and not tie directly to spoon?
Is he right?

I use ball bearing snap swivels with everything except jigs and live bait rigs. Cranks, spoons (especially), every bait I throw has a ball bearing snap. Otherwise, you're asking for twist and should not be disapointed when you get it. I also use larger sizes than most, and fish are not put off by them.

About the only spoons I carry are flutter spoons. I carry one daredevle for the odd situation where I may cast it. Most of my fishing is trolling, either while moving on a travel day, or to locate fish on a layover. On layover days, I will make use of the wind to drift troll over reefs, etc.

I'm a believer in big baits=big fish.

Another tip on avoiding line twist is to use two high quality ball bearing snap swivels back to back. Tie one to the end of your line, then connect the snap to the snap of another swivel, then tie another 3-4 feet of line and finally your lure to the last snap.

Haven't done it myself that way but I've heard it works even better than the single snap.

Moonman.

The farther up your line you have your ball-bearing swivel, the less twist you will get out of spoons.  I tie a 4-5' leader to use when flutter-spooning and put the swivel at the front of the leader.  Makes landing the fish a little more tricky but with the big wobbles, spins, and flips you get out of a large spoon, a swivel too close to the spoon doesn't stand a chance of eliminating the twist.

If you aren't using a ball-bearing swivel, don't even bother.  The cheapie swivels with no ball bearings are a total waste of money.  You are lucky if they even work 20% as well as a ball-bearing swivel.

If you DO get line twist, your best strategy is to just cut off all your terminal tackle and troll for a while while just feeding out bare line until you are past all of the twist.  This allows the line to untwist naturally as it passes thru the water.  5-10 minutes of this will usually do the trick.

Check your lure action and trolling speed next to the boat when using spoons.  It's easy to go too fast and destroy the action of the spoon.  Too fast and it just spins around in a way that doesn't produce fish.  You want that spoon to dance and dart around a lot, not just spin tightly.

Mylar spoons are awesome at deeper depths.  You get a ton more flash and it mimics the shiny gold or silver color of ciscoes, alewives, smelt, etc. which are the prey fish that swim deeper down and over open water.  You can even find mylar tape and add it to spoons that have none.

Good stuff on the use of swivels/flutter spoons.
I have used swivels on spoons but still got the line twist. I see now I should of used a leader with a swivel at the line end or maybe there and at the spoon too.

What 1lb test swivels do you use? Any special type of snap swivel? I like the Coast-Lock type, seem easier to open/close.

Personally, I like Berkley Cross Lock swivels. Match size to lure and line weight but generally prefer the smallest size I know to be strong enough.

Moonman.

For those of you who like to troll fast spoons are not a good choice. As Snow Dog says test the action of any spoon you use at the side of the canoe rather than guess at the correct speed. Most spoons' action break down at surprisingly slow speed. If you want to troll fast Rapala Tail Dancers are the best lure I know of for high speed. According to Rapala they will not break down at any speed you can paddle.
Trolling fast is an effective method for triggering strikes but it must be done with the correct type of lures and high quality terminal tackle.

i second the comment on tail dancers. i always carry a bunch of those.

as for line twist with spoons, the best method ive come across is using a small sized bottom bouncer a few feet in front of the lure. change out the swivel on the bouncer to be a nice ball bearing one and then use a cross lock snap on the spoon. the bouncer keeps the weight off the line so the torque to twist it is too high even for a spoon to twist it. the light weight makes sure you dont run too deep.

solotripper wrote on Jun 21^st, 2012 at 2:17pm:

Quote: seems to me that any time I try trolling with big spoons, they start twirling and twist the hell out of the line - maybe ok if going really slow I had the same problem. I was told by a avid fisherman friend that to avoid that problem it was imperative you use a good swivel and not tie directly to spoon? Is he right?

Definitely.
Anytime I use a spoon or inline spinner I use a good quality ball bearing swivel.
I add a split ring and a ball bearing swivel to all my inline spinners and spoons right out of the package even though I use a steel leader that may have a swivel on it as well.

I don't use snap swivels at all, unless you count steel leaders with a snap on one end and a swivel at the other.
A plain snap is good for switching crankbaits quickly, but adding a swivel to it just adds weight at the point that it kills the action of the bait the most. A 5-6" steel leader puts the swivel far enough away from the bait.

When I troll inline spinners like a Mepps I always add a small (or large if going deep) keel sinker a couple feet in front of the bait. Failure to do that has resulted in epic birdsnests appearing in my rod guides and on my reel. Plus it lets you troll a bit faster while keeping the bait down.

I am going for big fish on this trip, not looking for numbers. I'm looking for 40" plus pike and two handed lakers. That's the reasoning for the big baits. I've fished big baits up there before, but only big spinners for pounding deep weed edges for pike. Tried big 2 Oz Daredevil spoons on Basswood before but only caught about a dozen 5-6# sheepshead and no pike.

On the line twist issue:
When I was young and dumb we'd cast and then start trolling. As you can imaging We'd get some twist from fowled lures now and then. I've tried the let the line out and paddle for a while fix with not great success.

These days to cure annoying line twists I'll cast out, reel in and let the last 4-5 feet of twist spin my lure and let it's momentum take it as far past neutral as it will go. Cast out again to even things out. Then I repeat until all the twist is gone. A few casts will take care of all the twists those little bass you don't notice right away can cause. A spare spool is small and light insurance.

Fireline never seems to twist for me, only mono.

You can tie on a mono leader if you believe you need mono near the lure.

I have done almost nothing but think about how I can dredge some big boys out of Basswood this upcoming August.

My thinking is that big fish have refined eating patterns and seldom deviate. I believe big pike are apt to eat outsized meals that may hold them over for a few days...........so the window of opportunity is likely to be narrow. Add in that they may spend considerable time in the deep during summer and the game gets exponentially more complicated.

While I love the kick and vibration of spoons (fleeing prospective meal) they can be tough to fish effectively in the depths. The first prerequisite I would opt for is braid. Smaller diameter will keep the spoon in the zone longer as the lure will be less apt to kite up (small diameter of braid vs mono). I like the husky devle...........Throw it on 50 power pro with a beefy baitcaster and your in business.

One of my strategies will be to troll a Manns stretch 30 which is essentially a saltwater wahoo lure (11 inches). With 65 power pro and a muskie rod depths of 30 to 40 feet will be easily attained. The only question is how long will I be able to keep the big bad lure in the water..........can you say popeye forearms? (arrrrgh......maybe I'll hope for a good stiff breeze and troll downwind)
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That will be experimental..........a tried and true tournament winner is the cobra jig/big shadtail combo. Definitely a big fish lure with outstanding versatility.
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I'm also looking to do some butterfly jigging if the finder can show me the right spot...........
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Can't wait. Had to reconfigure my packs due to the decked aspect............I'm now the owner of a 4ft waterprood duffel (watershed), slides up inside rather perfectly.

The trial run is tomorrow.........The primary reason is to see if the depth finder will shoot through the hull..........but I am sort of pumped to see how she does. Yeehaw.

Good luck!  Remember, pictures rule!

prouboy

Puckster wrote on Jul 10^th, 2012 at 2:13pm:

Good luck!  Remember, pictures rule! prouboy

I'm thinking helmet cam...
And: I think the mann's baits will work well for you and have seen the smaller version of the 30+ work really well for LT.

I'll be using a couple big jigs like that if we can find a mid lake reef or just a quick breaking main lake point. I have a couple hand pours I bought at the sports show a decade and a half ago that are about 9-10" long shad baits.
I was researching the lake I'm going to and I found out that there are a lot of 1-2# lakers in it, supposedly all over the lake. Sounds like primo forage for giant pike and big lakers.
I'll be hitting the Bayley Bay basin sometime during Aug. 4-10. I have a theory that the peninsula between the Burke and Sunday portages extends Southwest right across the middle of the basin to the point West of the bay that points at Manomin Lake (Rice Bay?). The general topography of the area is ridge lines in that NE-SW direction, look at the peninsula that makes up the Western shore of Bayley and the general shape of the lakes around there. Finding a sunken island out there would be dy-no-mite. It would have to be a very calm day to paddle out there a mile from any shoreline though. It's a really big area of open water.
I also always wanted to fish the main lake side of the island that sits in the middle of Sunday Bay and the narrows on either side of it. The wind was always blowing into it from across Bayley whenever I've paddled past it. It's just got to have a bunch of big predatory fish on it just sitting there chowing down on pelagic baitfish being blown in to them. Plus the proximity to both deep water and the shallow, weedy-ish, somewhat meso bay would be kickass even without the trophy potential of the big basin.

Did you know that the #2 North American record pike came out of Basswood? 45# 12 Oz in 2002.
There is only one claimed to be bigger - from NY, 46#2 Oz. in 1940.
"We're gonna need a bigger boat."

Hint: Db turned me onto the topo of Basswood.........it has all but North Bay area.

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mastertangler wrote on Jul 11^th, 2012 at 10:55pm:

Hint: Db turned me onto the topo of Basswood.........it has all but North Bay area.

You don't say....  :-?

Well worth the dough, especially if you are looking to score on the lakers.

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