Okay, here is a novice question for all of you expert fishermen and women! out there. I've read a couple of posts, articles and resources stating that in-line trolling on deeper lakes (like Cirrus?) during the summer is a good thing. Good because the lake trout for example will seek deeper depths. Sounds reasonable. Some experts suggest that rappala deep taildancers are the way to go with an inline sinker (1-2 oz) to get down as much as 25ft. Others counsel to save your lure and go with a spoon (daredevil or hammered silver dr. spoon for ex.) and I'm assuming a sinker as well as the taildancers will just snag up. You should therefore save these for shoreline casts. What do you think --- and most importantly --- what do you do? ;)

rapala makes tail dancers in the "deep" model that go 15, 20, and 30 ft down. the 30 footers really pull something fierce, though. i dont fish any deeper than that because chances are you are killing whatever you catch from down there being that its being pulled up through quite the pressure difference as well as a significant temperature difference.

personally, im not a big fan of pulling sinkers. they dampen my feel of the lures action (less able to tell if its fouled) as well as when you get the fish close you have a big hunk of lead swinging around your face while you are worried about landing a thrashing fish.

deepest i fish on a regular basis is with a 20 ft tail dancer or a deep husky jerk 12, which swims around 25ft deep.

MT is more versed in the sinker world so if you plan to use one, follow his instructions  ;)

Thanks Jaximus! That helps to clarify. The J9 Husky Jerker that I have dives to about 15 to 20 so I might be okay there without weight (depending on what I'm cruising over).

If MT jumps in, I'll try to coax a few "sinker" tips out of him ;)

what me, jump in? hardly ever, like pulling teeth for me to give my opinion but i will try and help ::)

Your deep divers will be directly effected by the diameter of your line. Physics......thicker line means greater resistance and hence shallower diving depths. Choices, choices.......braid will get you deeper but it has its own drawbacks as in only certain knots can be used, potentially injurious to work with (I like gloves when tightening knots) and is highly visible to fish. There is also no stretch which can be a disadvantage due to "pulled" hooks.

I like the big deep taildancers and the trout colored finishes are tops in my book. I pull them on 8lb green xt trilene but your knots have to be 100%. Do not tie 8lb to the split ring as you will not get 100% strength. Get rid of it altogether and get a fas-snap and tie the gryp knot using a "tie fast" knot tying tool. Experiment with the number of wraps, 5 or 6 wraps should work. Yes, I sound like a broken record but this works and works well. If you do not do as I suggest I would move to 10lb mono as a minimum for tying to split rings and their oval configuration (you can minimize the thickness of tying to split rings by tying where the ring is single thickness of wire.....that helps tremendously). I will stick with the tiny fas-snaps in the large size (not x-large).

On overcast and rainy days the lakers will go up in the water column to chow down and they can be caught with the taildancers. Run them far back, rod holders are helpful and have your drag fairly tight if you use mono. Remember, mono has stretch. When you hook up remember to loosen your drag as the fish gets nearer the boat because now there is little stretch and little margin for error with 8lb line and a big fish.

Want tostep up the line size a bit? Sure, less chance for a breakoff. But now you need to get deeper. Enter in line sinker. Pay special attention to the line between the sinker and the lure.....no stretch with mono and no shock absorbing bungee effect to help out. You might want to up your lb test in this crucial area to say 12 or even 14lb test. The less experienced you are the heavier the line should be.

Trolling in lines for lakers in open water with no depth finder can work fine but trolling in lines with any precision near the bottom usually results in hang ups and that rather quickly. What makes the deep diving cranks shine is there ability to dig bottom without hanging up.......if you remove the front treble you have a snag resistant lure indeed.

good luck
MT

MT, Thanks so much!  A wealth of knowledge from both you and Jaximus! I cut and pasted this entire thread into a Word doc for my reference as I'll need it all to refer back to as I get a little more experience with these techniques. Good line pound test and knot advice too (took me 20 minutes to google 'gryp knot' -- never heard of that one :) ). Tie fast looks like a handy little gadget too :) Thanks again!

more random thoughts.....

the gryp knot can be tied without a tool and is in use quite commonly on salt water charter boats where it is referred to as a "mates" knot or "boat" knot. It is easy to tie without a tool by using your thumb in lb tests of 60lb. Smaller lines such as are in use in fresh water need a tool and the tie-fast tool excels. The instructions are included with the tool. I used to scoff at knot tools until the best snapper man I ever knew turned me on to them. I have had charter boat captains compliment me on my knots........they are not easy people to impress.

Concerning 8lb test........the action of your rod is also in play. If your rod is stiff then 8lb test could cost you dearly regardless my advice. I am partial to length when trolling and often use at least a 7' rod and often will use steelhead rods measuring 9'. The steelhead rods make a poor choice for versatility however as they are awkward to cast with for any length of time. For trolling they are hard to beat and act as a cushion for lighter line.

Get a tie-fast tool and you will be hard pressed to go wrong. Wet your knots before toghtening and always, always test your knots. It is not at all unusual for me to go through 2 or 3 knots before I get one I really like. Who knows when Mr big is going to show.......

Almost go time......yea baby! 8-)

MT offers some good advice. Contrary to his suggestion, if I tie to a split ring I avoid the spot where the wire is only one diameter thick. I have no evidence to support my thought, but it seems to me the line can get pinched where the parts of the ring come together.

When trolling for lakers, I usually use a spoon (bronze or copper in tannin-stained lakes and silver in clear lakes) and a bait-walker sinker.

i always enjoy reading MT's advice. a lot of salt water wisdom that he brings to the table that is all applicable to our usage.

an additional word on rod holders... i find them to be an irreplaceable part of my gear. MT and I have differing opinions on which is best and both reasons have their merits, but ive become especially fond of the 'cabelas quick draw' rod holder. its really a neat piece of equipment.

im also finding myself coming to agreement with MT on line choice as well. i used to run 15-20 lb braid for trolling and 4lb for jigging. now i find myself using 2 rods both spooled with 8lb test mono. im a suffix guy myself, however.

also, longer rods are indeed nice for trolling. gives you more leeway when it comes to errors. this past trip i had a 6'6" and an 8' rod. as the trip went on, i gravitated toward the 8' more and more. that was in part though, due to the actions of the rods. the 6'6" was a medium action, extra fast meaning it loads at the tip. the 8' rod was a light action with a fast tip meaning it loads more throughout the rod. since then, ive been using just one rod, a 7' medium action light tip. gives enough backbone through the blank and loads nice and even. stiff enough for trolling the 15 ft plugs and sensitive enough for finesse fishing with weightless flukes.

another reason i shy away from using sinkers is because i dont really understand them. im not comfortable because i dont know how deep i am and im not sure if i can duplicate it when i want to repeat it.

plus, i hate losing plugs, i despise it, detest it! and up in the shield lakes you grind rocks and most break offs are do to pinching your lips in rocks or your line being cut on rocks. id rather have that small chance of my plug floating back up than having it sit a few feet off the bottom with that sinker holding it down!

Jaximus, I hear you --- and thanks for those thoughts. Have been mulling over MT's advice on all of this. Your perspectives have helped a lot! I'm going to keep my approach simple I think on this trip. I'm going to experiment a little with some in-line sinkers-- maybe a 3/4oz and move up gradually to the 1 1/2ozs that I have, since I'm running a 12lb test on one 6'6" rod with some 1 buck nickel-plated 3 1/2in spoons that I won't mind losing if I do (won't try to lose them but also won't feel a great sense of loss if I do -- compared to say, one of my taildancers  :o).  Once I feel comfortable with what I'm doing, I'll probably give the raps a try, cautiously and see how the trolling goes. There's always fishing from shore points if it isn't going well  :). I'll probably leave the 7fter at home just because I don't want to have to deal with it. Have been looking around for rod-holder and your recommendations are great. Don't know if I'll be able to pull it together for this trip, but it's a learning experience. Step by step.....just a miscellaneous note --- is the gryp knot a 'nail knot'? Can't seem to get that one clarified from my searches.....

Ancient_Angler wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2013 at 10:38pm:

MT offers some good advice. Contrary to his suggestion, if I tie to a split ring I avoid the spot where the wire is only one diameter thick. I have no evidence to support my thought, but it seems to me the line can get pinched where the parts of the ring come together. When trolling for lakers, I usually use a spoon (bronze or copper in tannin-stained lakes and silver in clear lakes) and a bait-walker sinker.

Good to know too! Have some of the copper spoons (3 1/2 in Daredevils) that I'll save for the appropriate water! Thanks!

FWIW - the last Cirrus Laker I caught was on a beetle spin tied to 8# test with a palomar knot while casting from the pinch. Not huge but certainly respectable. Too big for me to eat at one sitting in any case.

I'd rather fish than tie knots. Hey, for some reason I can't seem to tie a palomar knot with any consistency. Half the time it breaks easily in testing. Any ideas?
When I get it right it's good enough. I use to snap improved cinch knots at portages. I need a clippers or a blade to remove the lure now that I've gone to the palomar.

For the gryp knot, go to "Knot Wars" by North American Fisherman magazine. Tough for fine line without a tool. And, yes, lot like a nail knot.

Last year I used snap weights to fish for Lakers and had a lot of success.  But I found snap weights to be a major pain - getting them off as you're reeling in a trout is a headache to say the least.  This year (August 6 - August 31!!!!) I'm going to try using weighted 3-way swivels.  Then I can use spoons, jerks or really anything I have a mind to as a lure.
For knots, I used to use a variety but I'm with DB, I'd rather fish than tie knots.  I find the uni knot works very well for all my needs.  It's not the strongest knot (though 90% strength isn't bad) but it is very easy to tie and, if done properly, won't fail due to slipping.

stop already with the statement that you would rather "fish than tie knots".What does that mean? It sounds idiotic to me. Before you can fish you must tie a knot.....

What you are implying is that since a tool is involved it must be inherently complicated and time consuming. Wrong, wrong, wrong. I am reminded of a saying concerning a horse and water.

And the purpose of a 3 way swivel is what? talk about a bunch of extra knots.....sheeesh. 3 ways are nice if your intention is say to troll a lure a set distance above the bottom with the sinker dragging along bottom. A hard feat to pull off while under paddle power as the spoon sinks to the bottom before you get up to speed. It can be done but is just a little tricky is all. For most open water trolling in lines are superior IMO and easier to store and travel with and are certainly less apt to tangle.

FWIW........uni knots are fine and dandy for braided type lines but are an inferior knot IMO for mono. While tying uni knots with braid you will get better results by doubling your line.

I don't know about the knot issue, I've never lost a fish at the knot and don't make a big issue of tying one. I just make a point to tie whatever knot I use properly.
I try to keep things simple but to each their own.
I do know that using a 3-way swivel set-up is hard IF your paddling solo.
I've done it and more often than not when I reeled the rig in, it was a tangled mess.
Problem with the 3-way is that you you can't really be sure it running properly without checking it frequently, which is a pain and not something you want to do solo.

I've found that a keel weight of varying weight works well solo and you can use a snap swivel at sinker end and the same on lure end.
I like a shallow diver/floater with this rig as the keel weight does hang up easily and the lure rides at an upward angle which keeps it from hanging up.
A little experimentation will tell you what size weight will get you to what depth.
I have 1/4 oz thru 1/2 oz.

Oh yeah, I know that one - "You can lead a horse to water, but a pencil must be lead."

I assume that the problems for fishing solo are different from when paddling tandem.  I'm a tandem guy so I'm hoping the 3-way will work out but if not its not a big deal to go back to an in-line set up.  My experience in places like WCPP is that I'm going to catch fish in any case.  I'm not a trophy fisherman, I'm a paddler who likes to fish.  I only fish for what I intend to eat especially when I'm going for trout in the heat of the summer.  Once I've got dinner I'm done for the day.

Your right about it being more a solo problem.
You want to be moving while letting out the 3-way rig. You let it out slowly and when you see it's not tangling, you can loosen the drag or put it in free wheel and palm it to the estimated depth you want.

Hard to do both solo. I found that if I could get it out okay, I was good unless I stopped and then started paddling ( say for photo-op) then I had problems.

Ancient_Angler wrote on Jul 24^th, 2013 at 8:29am:

For the gryp knot, go to "Knot Wars" by North American Fisherman magazine. Tough for fine line without a tool. And, yes, lot like a nail knot.

Thanks! I thought that I was looking at the right thing but wanted to double-check.

Here is an in line weight with some pizazz! I've got a hunch MT will like this one.

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[quote author=Kingfisher link=1374534780/19#19 date=1374727532]Here is an in line weight with some pizazz! I've got a hunch MT will like this one.

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Guilty as charged. Looks like a slay'em set up. I bet that would bring lakers up from quite a distance.

I have used a three way setup and found it is just difficult to use.   It seems like your lines are often getting tangled.  I went back to an inline sinker.  Storing a three way once it is out of the water also presents a challenge.

Just wanted to circle back and say 'thanks' to everyone for great advice and perspective. Had good luck using the tips from all of you GJ-ers as well as the 'fishing tips for beginners' from this site. My family had a great time eating 'fresh-fish-for-dinner' on this trip! Thanks!

Way to go Terry!  But where are the pics??  And how did the canoe work out?

Your vege stir-fry is now a standard menu item for me.

prouboy