Alas, I thought I had found my dream set up in the lowrance elite x4 dsi. It is a very sweet depth finder which can distinguish bait even in sunken tree tops.

Last year I used it on basswood where I had a good fishing trip indeed. The x4 was crucial. I had powered it by a small atv 12 volt battery and all was well.

On my last trip, which was more a regular travel trip, I used the more conventional 8 double A lithium set up. Even thought there were no full days of usage I still went through 2 sets of batteries. Ouch!

I know I recommended the unit but thought I had best post my results lest anyone else have the same fate. Perhaps some of you techno types can evaluate why this unit uses so much juice?

Thanks, MT.
Btw.....I was unable to determine if I was able to turn tithe backlighting off. Was. Wondering if it is permanently on.

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Aha......I just went to the user guide and their are 10 backlight levels but they are not in the menu but incorporated into the power button. Interesting.

In any event it would still be interesting to see how she stacks up power wise against some of the more common depth finders in use on the board.

Perhaps all is not lost as I am already invested. Even better is I have a built in excuse as to why I got my as@ kicked by my accomplice on my latest trip  ;D.

MT- using the cheapie x-4 i got about 5 rather long days with std 8 AA setup using duracell alkalines shooting through a plastic kayak. (estimate it's on at least 75% of time on the water) Thru a fiberglass hull same setup lasts noticeably longer.

These fish finders are designed to operate on a boat with a car type battery.  They are called 12 volt batteries. Ever put a volt meter on a 12 volt battery.  If it is charged and ready to start your car it will be about 14 volts.  If the engine is running and the battery is charged it may be as high as 16 volts.  Alkaline batteries start off at 1.6 Volts and have considerable energy left in them until they go below 1 volt.  When the fish finder voltage goes below 10 volts they start to have trouble finding the bottom and do extra pinging to find the bottom.  This uses more battery. I run with 10 AA in series and that allows the detector to work for about 4 days on a set of batteries. Ya I have a battery hog also.  Others have reported better results on lithium batteries over alkaline.  Lithium batteries are a little higher voltage. My detector could down a set of C batteries in a day before I cut the wires to the lights. Turning the light off did not stop the power hog from running them full brightness during the boot up and until it could find the bottom and by then the batteries were dead.
I am going to be looking for a new detector next year.  What can you see on the Elite-4 with the lights off?
Zski Mentioned Duracell.  I have found that Duracell is one of the better batteries.

Magic
I only just found out that the elite 4x DSI has 10 brightness levels and have not experimented much. All I know for sure is that we are a team, for better or worse. I will not dump her in spite of her greed for power........she has me under her spell ;)

MT
I was reading somewhere else where they recommended this battery
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I do not know what you charge it with.  Can you measure the actual current draw on your elite 4x DSI.  Maybe with several backlight settings. That does look like a nice detector.

Measurements I have taken.
Eagle fish mark 320  voltage verses current draw
Wires are cut on backlight. Transducer in bucket of water.      
Voltage      Max      Min      Ave            
8                              
9      0.245      0.135      0.164            
10      0.264      0.136      0.168            
11      0.284      0.138      0.175            
12      0.318      0.14      0.185            
13      0.1996      0.151      0.17            
14      0.355      0.142      0.187            
15      0.376      0.144      0.199            
16      0.398      0.146      0.202            
17                              

Hey thanks MP

This is so embarrassing......while I can wire and troubleshoot boat trailer wiring I am basically clueless when it comes to electronics. My only poor grade in College was DC fundamentals. So, if you would be so kind, I need to be spoon fed.

I sort of like the whole bigger battery idea and was considering some sort of small ATV battery as going through 16 AA lithiums is a pretty steep cost curve.

Of course I have yet to see if the backlight is set to its highest setting and if lowering that will make all the difference......but, bottom line, how does what you have presented compare with 8 AA's? And no, I will not be at all offended if you speak in very simplistic language. I admit to being ignorant on this subject and would enjoy absorbing some info. Thanks!

I found the manual for your elite 4x DSI at
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On page 23 input voltage range is 10 to 17 volts.   The current draw is 200mA = .2 Amps. We will assume that the detector always draws 200mA.  This means that if you have your detector on for 2 hours it will use ( 2 hours X .2 Amperes = .4 Amp hours) .4ah.
I do not have the lithium data so I will use ultra-alkaline AA.  Data is available at
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You have 8 batteries in series and these batteries put out 1.6V when new. 8X1.6 = 12.8 Volts.  The elite needs minimum on 10 volts to work properly (probably does not shut off till it gets down to 8-9 volts but does not work well below 10 volts).  10 volts divided by 8 batteries ( 10/8 = 1.25) means each battery must supply 1.25 volts for your detector to work well.  Look at the graph on the first page of the above Duracell web site.  The .2A load is closest to the blue line(.25W). Follow the blue line to where it crosses the 1.25 V line.  Ok there is no 1.25 line so go between 1.2 and 1.5 and from that point drop straight down and you will see 4 hours service.  That battery will supply .2A current draw for about 9 hours but in a 8 battery system you do not have enough voltage. 
Lets do that over with 10 batteries in series. 10 batteries in series at 1.6 volts gives 16 volts which is below your manual max voltage. 10 volts divided by 10 batteries means each battery must supply 1 volt for the elite to work properly.  Go back to the chart on the Duracell site.  Follow the blue line down to 1 volt then drop straight down and you get a little over 9 hours.
Lithium batteries are a little higher voltage and you want 9 batteries in series with Lithium.
I do not have discharge curves on the battery that was in my previous link but if it is over 10 volts when it is at it rated ah then you could get 25 hours with your elite.  This battery weighs 18.6 oz. This is a Lithium Polymer ( also called Lipoly) and they require special chargers. 

I imagine that depth and shooting through the hull or not matters a little too. I went with same same battery pack I used last year. This year I had it on pretty much any time I was on a lake and I got another 8 days @ easily 6 hours per day out of it. The low battery alarm went off on Shelly. So the new set went from Shelly to Pickerel where I ran into Jimbo. I ended up camping with them and dopey me forgot to turn the darn thing off.

So twice now I've killed a set of batteries pinging the moon all night. I can only assume it's going full blast trying to get a return and w/o water, that ain't happening so trying at full blast kills the batteries overnight.

Db
That is the disadvantage of having one battery that will take you all the way through the trip. Quentin sets his shallow alarm to 1 Ft and when he is getting out of the canoe it goes off reminding him to shut the thing off. 
Shipping charges at the hobby place I posted a link to are HIGH!

Master Tangler,

As an alternative to a heavy ATV battery, or fistfulls of AA or AAA batteries, you could try my solution for a power source.  I use 12V rechargeable lithium batteries from a Ryobee 12V drill set.  The drill, batteries (2) and charger kit cost anywhere from $39 on sale to $69 at regular price.  One of the batteries generally will last for a full weeks fishing.
I mounted a small waterproof "Pelican type" box under the seat of my Prism, which will securely hold either one or two of these Ryobee battery packs.
The initial cost may seem high, but I have been using the same set of batteries for three years now.  And have had the cordless drill to use at home...
Crimped on spade elctrical connectors available at any hardware store fit securely into the contacts on the batteries.  A very simple set up.  The batteries probably weigh less, and are easier to mount and pack than a AA or AAA's.
Setting the audible low depth alarm on my detector has helped prevent overnight depth checking in camp... One thing, as others have mentioned about Lithium though, they run until they quit, no getting weak or fading.  They just quit.

That really does sound like an elegant solution Quentin. A favor please? Hook it up and turn it on at home some night. I don't know what happened. I had the depth alarm set at 2 feet - hey, it wasn't my boat and I wanted to treat it nice. Perhaps I didn't press the off button for the full five seconds as I approached Jimbo's island. Thing is, I had three chances to turn the darn thing off and the pit of my stomach knew exactly what that beeping was as I approached the boat in the morning. Every other night I'd even remove a battery just to be sure so I blame Jimbo!   ;D

As a heavy user of finicky rechargeable nicads once upon a time, I actually almost wish my finder was set up with an integral battery compartment like my camera and cordless drill as I've been very impressed with lithium rechargeables in comparison.

Quentin  :thumbup

I really like things that you can use for more than one purpose.
Thinking of using drill batteries for a depth finder is really thinking out of the box. 8-)

I thought you might like this?
Not practical for traveling, but for home emergency use, maybe base camping or car camping, it might fill a need.

Click on   (You need to Login or Register and the instructions appear as a PDF file.

It's a survivalists sight so don't be put off by it's title. Lot's of good McGyver stuff there.

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[quote author=solotripper link=1377347241/12#12 date=1378242726]   (You need to Login or Register
Looks like my father's old brace and no bits. Never know when/where you might need a hole. Even his hammers are a bit outdated. Things change. Knowing the old ways and learning new ways is always helpful.

You have been holding out on us Quentin  ;). What other ingenious thoughts are behind that keyboard?

For the sake of discussion I wonder what the pros and cons are vs. what Magic paddler suggested? Is there a clearly superior choice?   

I thank both of you for weighing in......hopefully your advice and expertise will prove beneficial to others as well. It has certainly been helpful to me and has expanded my thinking greatly. 

Quentin what fish detector do you have? How much current does it draw? How many hours will that battery run your detector?

What about this battery pack?
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It is heavy coming in at 27 oz but surprisingly small if the mm dimensions are accurate (my conversion is a length of 5.750 inches)

What is Li-Ion? Different than standard lithium technology? Is the voltage to high? 10,400 mAh.....that sounds good, I wonder how long that would last? Questions, questions.

On my almost Hunter Island trip (I buggered off from Lac la Croix and instead went through Minn, darky river and Argo and then back to Crooked. I had given a walleye earlier in the day to a Canadian family who had not caught any fish and I had just caught a 3lb walleye. They were in 2 canoes...... a man and his wife, 2 kids and a grandpa. The old mans eyes lit up when I asked if they would like a fish.

Well anyways.......I was on a river of sorts and it was kind of hot and lazy and suddenly I came to a place that I didn't recognize on the map. It was my first time in the Q and the realization that I didn't know where I was caused a heightened concern. Not to far away I heard some voices on an island so I paddled in to find out where I was.

Lo and behold it was the Canadian family that I had given the fish to. Turns out I was at least 1 mile further down the river than I thought. They invited me to stay at their campsite and I agreed. Naturally I went out and caught a few more fish for the evenings dinner.

I will never forget the 6 year old boy who wore me out with his questions. Questions about how I caught the fish, how I cleaned the fish, why dragonflies have such big eyes and on and on. Whew!

I hope I'm not wearing you guys out ;).

 

Quote:

Looks like my father's old brace and no bits. Never know when/where you might need a hole. Even his hammers are a bit outdated. Things change. Knowing the old ways and learning new ways is always helpful.

Sometimes the old ways are the best ways.
I have a old brace and bit set I bought at rummage sale for zip.
New, they're expensive.
When I worked commercial construction we had a project that involved drilling multiple holes in railroad size oak timbers.
The boss bought a heavy duty 3/4' drill and wood bits for it to do the job.
Oak is extremely hard. Too much down force you end up smoking the bit and even worse binding the bit.
Big strong guy with no experience in drilling 1 1/4 holes in hardwood, tried the "muscle" the job.
Bit bound up, and the torque from that 3/4 drill snapped and broke one of his wrists and strained ligaments in the other.
Old finish carpenter on the job had the solution in his truck. Old school brace and bit and some sweat equity.
Something to remember if you ever need big holes in hard, large dimensioned lumber. ;)

The elite 4x requires a minim of 10 volts and the battery you are looking at has 4 cells. This mean that each cell must put out at least 2.5 volts or the unit will not work well.   Looking at the top discharge curve for one Li Ion cell you will have 100% of the charge used when the battery is down to 2.5 Volts per cell.
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The battery you suggested has 10.4 Amp Hours divides that by the draw from the elite 4x.   
10.4 Amp Hours/.2Amps = 52 Hours.   
That battery has “Built-in IC chip will prevent battery pack from over charge and over discharge and prolongs battery life”.  I do not know if that requires a smart charger or not. If those batteries are over charged it will destroy them.

db wrote on Sep 3^rd, 2013 at 5:55am:

I imagine that depth and shooting through the hull or not matters a little too.

52 hours sounds pretty good Magic Paddler. Better than anything we have looked at so far? The negatives are is that it is expensive and heavy and does require a smart charger which tacks on another $20.

Db's comments got me thinking. Just before we left I knew of Kingfishers propensity to "go, go" so I added some skid plates to the bottom of my boat as it needed it anyways. Not only was the backlight probably on but I bet that transducer is shooting through the skid plate to boot. DOH! Before I jump the gun I will make some changes.....try with the backlight off and transducer mounted differently. But now I know there is a world of options out there. Thanks. 

The numbers all crank out to look precise but in practice a ±30% variation can be expected but it gives a way of making comparisons in different power sources.

It's too bad you guys are so in love with your high power locaters. My Eagle Cuda 242 ran for 2 trips of 11 days last year and made it half way through our 14 day trip this year before I had to change batteries - 8 lithium AA. From a canoe these cheap locaters priced under $100 do all that's needed to find depth, bottom structure and fish on a canoe trip. The newest basic Lowrance X4 has similar power consumption to the Eagle Cuda series so I would expect similar battery life. I am a bit conservative with my locater usage and only use it when fishing and even then I sometimes turn it off while trout fishing in deep deep water. At the weight of 8 lithium AA's and the weight of the display unit itself it would take alot more convincing to get me to "upgrade". My entire locater, transducer, wiring, suction cup and 2 sets of batteries weighs 18 ounces. And the total investment is still under $100.
For those new to depth finders don't think that this is more complicated than it really needs to be.
One more observation, my locater functioned fine until the voltage dropped below 8 volts and then the display faded out. That was with lithium batteries. When I've used alkaline batteries the first sign of failure came at about 9 volts when the unit was unable to find the bottom in deep water (over 50 feet) and they would last about 1/2 of a typical trip. I easily am seeing 4-5 times more battery life with lithiums and I like the operating characteristics of lithium batteries better too.

Lots of great info in this thread. 

MT, how well does the DSI Imaging work from a canoe on your Lowrance Elite 4 DSI?  I see in the manual it says you need a speed of 2-8 mph for optimal imaging.

Cabela's has a good sale on these now, combined with a $20 off $150 coupon and $100 rebate it brings the price down to $140 plus tax. It also comes with a Lake Insight Pro GPS card ($99 Value).

Details:
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I wonder if the DSI/GPS would be the way to go in a canoe or if the simpler Lowrance Elite-4X would be a better choice for lower power consumption.  With a $1 item added to my cart and the $20 coupon and rebate the Lowrance Elite-4X comes out to $80 plus tax.

Decisions...decisions.  Any thoughts?

arnesr wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2013 at 8:08pm:

Lots of great info in this thread.  MT, how well does the DSI Imaging work from a canoe on your Lowrance Elite 4 DSI?

I had zero problems with imagery even at a standstill. What still is in question is power consumption. I went through (2) 8 pacs of lithium double A's in 2 weeks only fishing 4/5 hours per day.

Is it because the elite draws massive juice or is it because I was shooting through my hull and had subsequently mounted a keel guard right over where the transducer was shooting? Probably a bit of the latter and a lot of the former. I will move the transducer and see how it does.

The unit is incredibly sweet. The DSI imaging is unlike anything I have seen before. It not only shows you the tree branch you are passing over but also shows you the bait school within. Pretty nifty. Yup I'm head over heels........high maintenance but very nice to look at and I would have a hard time giving her up.  ;)

Thanks for the feedback MT.  The DSI sounds like a useful feature, now I just have to weigh if it's worth the extra cost of a heavier battery to power it.  The manual states a 250Ma draw. 

not exactly on topic but related:
I've got the lowrance x4 (as stated, under 100 bucks) and would like to purchase an extra transducer.  Is there a best place that you folks have found to purchase extra transducers / parts, or do you just go to the mfgr?

You might try ebay-- it's hit or miss. You may find one at a decent price or overpriced --- but it's worth a look.

thanks  Nandagikendan. the main issue was knowing which transducer would work with the lowrance x4 (my last post wasn't clear). it came with a skimmer transducer and for the next one i wanted to get the hockey puck style (flat bottom). Somehow first few times researching, it was never really clear exactly which transducer was right for that unit. Couple days after posting here i went back to the mfg site and all of a sudden it was more obvious than previous visits. turns out amazon has em too.

why the hockey puck style?

the skimmer style is much preferred IMO......fits snugly in the keel line and its slim small shape is easily covered in silicone.

zski wrote on Jan 6^th, 2014 at 2:21am:

thanks  Nandagikendan. the main issue was knowing which transducer would work with the lowrance x4 (my last post wasn't clear). it came with a skimmer transducer and for the next one i wanted to get the hockey puck style (flat bottom). Somehow first few times researching, it was never really clear exactly which transducer was right for that unit. Couple days after posting here i went back to the mfg site and all of a sudden it was more obvious than previous visits. turns out amazon has em too.

Zski,

Good info! I was having a similar difficulty in figuring transducers for different head units that I was looking at on ebay. Seems like you have found what you are looking for! I'm going to keep the mfg's websites and Amazon in mind for my eventual purchase as well.

Happy fishing,
Nanda

MT,
For me the flat bottom puck is far easier to attach and remove. Have been using a Vexilar LC-10 with that style transducer for years. Mounting the transducer below the thwart directly in front of stern seat. Day 1, small dab of silicone on bottom of puck, press it down and it's good for the trip. Last Day, break out the 99 cent click knife and scrape/slice it off. That point of the boat suites the puck style better.

Nanda,
Still don't understand how i missed it the first couple times i looked for it. one of those duh moments, and already had the question posted here. Happy fishing to you too! Without the depth finder, we're feeling around in a dimly lit room.
Tim

Back on the topic of power source.  I did a little research and ordered a Lithium Iron Phosphate Rechargeable Battery (LiFeP04) to power my Depth Finder.  It's the same size as the Lead Acid batteries many use for Depth Finders while ice fishing, but instead of 5lbs, its only 2.6 lbs.  I ordered a 10AH model with charger from here:
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(used a 12% off coupon found on the internet- battery12)
Pricey for sure, but I'm hoping the superior performance, capacity and weight will make up for it.

On the power issue, I found mixed results on the Lowrance Elite 4x. I made a battery pack that held 10AA batteries. The first set I used ran for about 12 hours total. However, after that when I turned the unit off I didn't disconnect the batts and I think there was some 'phantom' drain occuring, so I went through a set of batteries in about 4 hours when it was on.  My buddy and I did some math on it and decided that 10 D cells would give us the best weight,cost, and run time compared to a 12V motorcycle battery.

Drewfus
What kind of batteries did you use?

I don't bring a fish finder, but who knows down the road?
I see that most here use a AA battery pack to power their devices.
I was just curious if anyone had tried using other type/size batteries?
Are the AA the best in relationship to power/life/weight?
Has anyone tried using other type batteries wired in series or parallel.
Maybe D, C or some 9 volt?

I did some Googling and from what I could gather it all depends on the device your trying to power and how long you want to use it.

solotripper wrote on Jan 19^th, 2014 at 4:03pm:

I did some Googling and from what I could gather it all depends on the device your trying to power and how long you want to use it.

You nailed it. 
I think for a particular chemistry you get more power per pound out of the bigger batteries but there is a lot of pounds there.  The AA’s are the only one you can get in lithium and lithium is lighter and more energy per pound.  Most of the detectors are made to operate on a automotive type battery.  Those detectors loose sensitivity when the battery voltage drops below 10 volts and they shut down at about 8 volts. You need 10 alkaline or 9 lithium in series to provide proper voltage. 

What Magic says is all true, additionally we are finding that there is a fairly wide range of "normal" power consumption from the different types of locaters. Some or most of that has to do with factory or user programming. When you start using the more sophisticated locaters you will find that there is less voltage tolerance and greater power consumption if you want to take advantage of all the features provided by those devices.
Even on the most basic types of locaters these things affect power consumption:

Backlight, the #1 cause of battery drain (not counting leaving it turned on all night - I wish locaters would have an auto off feature). I would not use a locater that cannot have the backlight programmed to be off at all times, except when fishing at night of course.

Display screen type: Color and especially HD screens use more power. Black/white grayscale, though a bit trickier to interpret, use less.

Deep water use also requires more power. I'm not suggesting to never use it over deep water, just something to keep in mind if you're trying to conserve.

Alarms, turn them all off to save power. Nobody else really wants to hear them anyway.

Thanks MP + KF.
Some more dumb questions  :-[

I understand that if you hook 2-9 v batteries in a series you get 18 volts?
I also see they now make 9 v in Lithium
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If you hook a fish finder to a 18 volt source will it damage it?
Now that they have 9 v Lithium, would it possible to use X amount hooked in a series to get the same run time as those 10 AA Lithium batteries.

I know your a "electrical guy" MP, so if you could get the proper voltage/ run time with using 9 v Lithium, is there a formula for comparing the run time at required voltage against the 10 AA set-up?

I don't have a Fish Finder and may never have one, but I always like to know/understand my options.

Magicpaddler wrote on Jan 17^th, 2014 at 12:58am:

Drewfus What kind of batteries did you use?

The AA's & D's were both energizer NmH batts, though I think one set of the AA's were generic brand and the performance difference was evident

Kingfisher wrote on Jan 20^th, 2014 at 1:28am:

What Magic says is all true, additionally we are finding that there is a fairly wide range of "normal" power consumption from the different types of locaters. Some or most of that has to do with factory or user programming. When you start using the more sophisticated locaters you will find that there is less voltage tolerance and greater power consumption if you want to take advantage of all the features provided by those devices. Even on the most basic types of locaters these things affect power consumption: Backlight, the #1 cause of battery drain (not counting leaving it turned on all night - I wish locaters would have an auto off feature). I would not use a locater that cannot have the backlight programmed to be off at all times, except when fishing at night of course. Display screen type: Color and especially HD screens use more power. Black/white grayscale, though a bit trickier to interpret, use less. Deep water use also requires more power. I'm not suggesting to never use it over deep water, just something to keep in mind if you're trying to conserve. Alarms, turn them all off to save power. Nobody else really wants to hear them anyway.

Really enjoying this thread. I'm looking at a used 242 and from what I've read here and on the diy site, if I pick up the standard eagle cuda 242 I assume everyone here has just built their own portable battery pack with materials from the local hardware store. Is that right? Do you all just bungy-cord the battery pack to the finder or carry the whole unit in your own fanny pack or something similar? Just curious as to the actual set-up.

I have made a holder out of a thin wall stainless tube from Mcmaster carr that holds 10 AA batteries. here is another solution.

Quentin wrote on Sep 3^rd, 2013 at 5:12pm:

Master Tangler, As an alternative to a heavy ATV battery, or fistfulls of AA or AAA batteries, you could try my solution for a power source.  I use 12V rechargeable lithium batteries from a Ryobee 12V drill set.  The drill, batteries (2) and charger kit cost anywhere from $39 on sale to $69 at regular price.  One of the batteries generally will last for a full weeks fishing. I mounted a small waterproof "Pelican type" box under the seat of my Prism, which will securely hold either one or two of these Ryobee battery packs. The initial cost may seem high, but I have been using the same set of batteries for three years now.  And have had the cordless drill to use at home... Crimped on spade elctrical connectors available at any hardware store fit securely into the contacts on the batteries.  A very simple set up.  The batteries probably weigh less, and are easier to mount and pack than a AA or AAA's. Setting the audible low depth alarm on my detector has helped prevent overnight depth checking in camp... One thing, as others have mentioned about Lithium though, they run until they quit, no getting weak or fading.  They just quit.

Thanks Magicpaddler! I have some tinkering to do!

Here's a link to a set-up for kayaks that uses pvc pipe for aa battery holder.
Might get some ideas for canoe set-up.

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A couple of pictures of my holder.  Top pic is befor assembly
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Heres another version of a AA batter holder made of pvc pipe. Lot's of good ideas out there.

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Nice!

Nan,

My battery pack gets zip tied to the thwart in front of the rear seat. When I was running the AA battery pack, I put it in the thwart bag in the same location.

I have posted some data on batteries here.
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MP: With all of these posts on finders and batteries, i just noticed you run 10 AAs in your battery tube/holder. right?

I run 10 Alkaline but I am going to switch to 9 lithium unless I find something better.

Below is a list of the power sources I have tested in a form that makes comparing them easier.  I have found that on at trip that I fish 9 days I use about 6200 mAH from my battery pack so that is what I am requiring for a trip in the list.
Energizer ultimate lithium___9/pack 2packs/trip____$33.30/tri_______9.4 Oz/trip
Duracell Alkaline__________10/pack 4packs/trip___$51.60/trip____2LB 3.2 Oz/trip
LiPo 5800 Rechargeable __2battery+protection/trip_$50/manyTrps __2LB 123 Oz/trip
Dewalt drill battery Recharge_3battery/trip _______$ 240/ManyTrps _5LB 7.6 Oz/Trip
Ryobi drill battery Recharge__6batterys/trip__________$???/manytrp___3 LB/trip

Magic, perhaps your power requirements on your detector are greater than my basic unit.  The two Ryobi batteries tested may be getting a bit tired as they are over three years old, but they have been sufficient for three 7-10 day trips so far. 
So, so far for me,
Rechargeable Ryobi Lithium Drill Kit Batteries
2 batteries per trip (7.94 oz. each)
Complete Ryobi Kit (drill, two batteries, charger) $70,
3 Trips (so far) = $23.33 per trip
16 oz per trip
As the batteries may be getting tired I may add another for the next trip, which will bring the weight up all the way up to 1.5 lbs.
Anyway, whatever works, works.

Quentin
If you and your detector can do it on 2 ryobi batteries that new are listed as 1666 mAH  then 9 Lithium batteries at 4.7 OZ + watertight case with mount at 4.6 OZ  will last you through 1 and ½ trips.  9 Lithium batteries cost about $16.65.  You have a light weight low power consumption detector (I am jealous) but your batteries make up for it.  What does your battery box and tie downs weigh?
For you
9 Lithium AA + Case +case mount ______________9.3 OZ  With power left over/trip
2 Ryobi ________16.88 OZ + pelican box/trip

MP/QUENTIN,

I'm glad your discussing the power/weight options between the AA Lithium packs and those 12volt drill packs.

I'm in the market for a new cordless drill. I see Ryobi has some 18volt rechargeable batteries/charger that you can retrofit previous models with. They have a long life model/and a compact version as well.

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I also see that some of the fish finders will handle 20 volts.
I see there rated at 4Ah which if I understand right is equal to about 4000mAH, is that close?

They're considerably more powerful than the 12 volt and have a built in battery level indicator which might be a nice feature.

Weight is always a factor, but I read where you have to be careful how you re-charge those AA so you get maximum benefit.

I like the idea of getting dual use out of something.

That is a lot more mA than the RYOBI batteries I tested and it is at higher voltage.  Should run a drill nicely. What voltage does an unloaded 18 volt battery put out when it is fully charged?  My 14.4 volt LiPo batteries a couple of days after they were charged measured 16.73 Volts.  Using the same ratio would give about 21 volts.  I do not know if that would damage the detector. In my old age I am getting very weight conscious. What does that 18 Volt battery weigh?  The weights are listed on the graphs for the batteries that I tested.
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4 Ah = 4000 mAh 
The lithium rechargeable batteries need to be protected during charge and discharge.  If they are over discharged one time they are destroyed.  I believe all of the drill packs have built in discharge protection.  The charger that come with the drill have charging protection.  Most battery packs we have used have only two leads.  If you look at the Ryobi they have more leads so during charge the voltage across each cell can be monitored and controlled. The discharge protection circuit also monitors the voltage across each cell and if one gets too low it shuts off the drill.
As far as using the 18 V for a detector I like the 4 Ah, don’t know about weight but I do not like the 18 volts.  Quentin’s 12 volt batteries supply power in the voltage range that detectors work well in.

Quote:

As far as using the 18 V for a detector I like the 4 Ah, don’t know about weight but I do not like the 18 volts.  Quentin’s 12 volt batteries supply power in the voltage range that detectors work well in.

I couldn't find weights for the 18v. I'm sure there posted somewhere but I doubt there lighter than a 10aa battery pack, but if your taking 2 of those and 1 18v pack would do the job, it might be a fair trade-off?

I looked at a few different low end fish finders.
At least two of them had the high rating at 20v.
I did a little Googling and some people say those high end voltages are deliberatley set lower than the unit could take if you had a spike in current.
Your the electric guru, so I would take your feelings into account IF I ever decide to go that route?

Quote:

I couldn't find weights for the 18v. I'm sure there posted somewhere but I doubt there lighter than a 10aa battery pack, but if your taking 2 of those and 1 18v pack would do the job, it might be a fair trade-off?

one of the compact ryobi 18v Li
Part Number      P102
Item Weight      1.1 pounds
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Although the 18 Volt  battery may be at 21 Volts unloaded as soon as a load is applied within seconds it will probably drop 1 to 1.5 volts.  I doubt that would damage a detector does it do you any good to have that higher voltage.  I ran my detector on an adjustable powersupply to and measured the current  and I even found my old data.
Eagle fish Mark 320 current draw. Voltage is
power supply meter with a fluke multimeter
in series to measure the current. Transducer is
glued to bottom of canoe not in the water.
Volts----Imin----Imax------Iave
8--------84ma----332ma--104ma
9--------88ma----372ma--111ma      
10-------88ma----456ma--116ma      
11-------92ma----476ma--121ma
12-------92ma----476ma--131ma
13-------96ma----612ma--132ma
14-------96ma----448ma--136ma
15-------100ma---492ma-141ma
16-------100ma---532ma      -148ma
17-------104ma---560ma      -153ma

As the voltage goes the current also goes although not by the same ratio.  If the detector performance also went up it might be worth it.  I do not think there is any improvement in detector performance above 11 volts.  My detector works well at 10 volts.
The 4 Ah 18 volt battery is probably made out of five 4 Ah 3.6 volt batteries in series.  If you run my detector on this battery it would start off drawing more than 153 mA and when the battery was drained it would be drawing about 140 mA.
If you cut that 4 Ah 18 volt battery apart took 2 of the cells and cut them off and threw them away the battery would be lighter and run the detector for longer.  The voltage would be between 10 and 12.5 Volts which would have a current draw of about 120 mA. To see the voltage profile of a 3 cell LiPo battery see the second graph on the page.  It is labeled LiPo5800.

Thanks MP,

Way above my head technicaly but it gives me something to consider and learn more about.

I was reading through this plethora of information, I don't think anyone answered SolTriper regarding the use of 9volt  batteries; I like the idea for size and weight-but can these be used for depth finders? I also liked the Ryobi battery pack idea too, its just coming up with a receiver kit of some sort to plug it into, which lead to the idea of a few LED light mounted under the gun rails for in board lighting for night fishing. ;)

Windsailor

Windsailor
9 volt batteries are small and that would be nice to carry.   One 9 volt battery would be too low a voltage and 2 in series would be too high.  There is not enough capacity to run a detector for very long.  Your suggestion of lighting got me to thinking.  I have found area lighting uses a lot of power but if you can light only the area you are working in it would greatly reduce the power required.  Like the cap mounted led lights.  I could see mounting one on the gunnel.  Your comments bring visions of trying to tie a knot in the dark and what would help would be a light mounted near your hands.  Something that was easy to turn on and off would last for years.  If you come up with something that work well let us know what your find.

If you want small lights close and low, to use in tying knots, some tackle boxes some with LED lights just for this purpose..

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prouboy

Well I have been doing some digging and the news (as I suspected) is not good.

The lowrance Mark 4 draws 0.25 a
The lowrance elite DSI 4 which I am so fond of draws over double at 0.75 a

Maybe some of you electronic types could help me out ( I basically failed DC fundamentals in college) If I were to run the DSI unit for 10 hours per day for 20 days how much juice would I need?

And the next question.......which one of these batteries would make the grade.
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And of course I am appreciative for the advice :thumbup

Where did you get the current readings for the 2 fish detectors? 
If your detector is drawing .75 A then it requires .75AH each hour.  Also .75AH is the same as 750mAH.
The 3 batteries you listed are 8330mAH, 10830mAH, and 15000mAH. They will run your power hog .75A for 11 hour and 6 minutes, 14 hours and 26 minutes, and 20 hours. 
A serious fisherman needs to have a detector working about 7 hours a day so one of those 15000mAH batteries will last about 3 days. So for a 10 day trip you only need 3 of those 12LB batteries.
I am looking at how the current varies with the depth of the water and have found that my detector draws about 2 times as much current at 30 feet as it does at 3 feet.  I should have better data on several detectors in about a week.
You might consider one of these for each day
  (You need to Login or Register They are not stocked in US so shipping charges may be $20 but if shipping several the per item cost may be reasonable.  YOU WILL NEED A PROTECTION BOARD.  I can get you information on those if interested.

My multiple firsthand testing with what I use is:
#1 - 8AAs  will easily last me 2 trips ~5hrs a day so.. 100+ hours.
#2 - Forget to turn it off at night in an overturned canoe and I consider myself lucky to hear the low battery warning in the morning.

A favor Magic? Can you test the bonehead current draw when forgetting to turn 'em off and pinging the Milky Way all night?

Since I'm the weakest link. For me that means 16 LI AAs per trip so about a half pound of batteries... plus FISH LO-K-TOR.

Magicpaddler wrote on Apr 8^th, 2014 at 7:23pm:

Where did you get the current readings for the 2 fish detectors?

Ahem......a kayaking forum. Blasted kayak fishermen, they really have no clue what they are talking about 1/2 the time  ;)....... (which in this instance is 1/2 better than me)

Maybe they got the decimal point wrong. The guy probably meant milli amps instead of amps? The guy sounded so convincing :P even naming the depth finders in question. Maybe I'm not reading it right........
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The only thing that rings true is my beloved and wonderful finder is a juice hog. Anyway, I want to go for at least 2 weeks, maybe a month and have the thing on daylight to dark as I troll my way around the park. Thats all I ask.........

I had hoped not to have to bring an entourage to carry my stuff >> 2 guys with a long pole carrying the 12 volt batteries between them  ;D 

OK.....
looked in the manual and at 13.5V is 250mha, not sure what that means but could be helpful. Wish I was smarter (might as well throw in better looking and a few extra bucks wouldn't hurt as long as I'm at it  ;D )

I think the manual said 250 ma not 250 mah.  If that is so take the numbers I gave you for how long the batteries below will last and multiply them by 3. 
Read that thread you referenced below all the way to the end.  Ya they are a little confused about how long the battery should last and I think that is due to the .75A  which I hope is incorrect.  They mention a battery form Hobbyking.  I own one of those batteries and it is a 4 cell.  If your detector will work down to 10 volts (Look in the manual) I would recommend a 3 cell battery. They also talk about fire.  The fires I have heard of were caused by one of 3 things.  Over charging (protection card prevents this).  Too high of current (protection card prevents this unless the current rise is fast enough to destroy the card before it can interrupt the current (then a fuse will work)). Mechanical damage to the battery(don’t stick your knife into the battery). The battery I suggested below is a grade B batteries (will not supply high(5+ A) of current) which is not stocked in US but there are some grade A batteries that are stocked in US.
Can I borrow your detector tomorrow I am going to go measure the current at different depths.

This whole thing is absurd. I fret and worry about ounces. Spend major league dough upgrading rain gear to save a lb.......get titanium cook wear to save a few more ounces.......and so on.....and so on.

All so I can lug around a 12lb battery for a month. Never mind crazy town, I am the mayor of crazy town.

And yet.......I love to run a lure while I travel. The finder makes everything hassle free. No going back to free my lure from some errant rocky point or tree. Am I in 12ft or 60? Tough to tell without a finder.

And of course the argument which keeps coming up.......if I go for more than a few weeks I'm likely going to be triple portaging anyways. Whats the big deal with a 12lb battery? I usually go from daylight to dark so the extra trip is not that big a deal.......it is, after all, a fishing trip is it not?

Amazing how we can talk our selves into things isn't it? Rationalizing, deflecting, justifying.........Will I be happy without a finder.......and unfortunately after having had the best will I be content with less? No and no.

I should probably bring a cheap little tester so I can keep an eye on it. Don't want to drain it completely and ruin it, sort of expensive. Love the glass mat technology however. Maybe I can ration the thing so it will last.

Anyways, thanks guys.......special thanks to MP. Ever consider manufacturing those battery holders you make MP? If you could send me a prototype I could present it to the board at MT enterprises for consideration to go nationwide with them. I'm sure we could arrange something in the way of gratuity  ;)

Yeah MT, I have a hard time with this thread.  I suppose I am about to make this discussion a complete 180 degrees, but what-the-hell, bring along some more AA batteries and forget-about-it!!

I think you're over-analyzing.

Puckster

The protection circuit is not a big project and the parts can be purchased for $12. I no longer have steady enough hands to do a neat job. 
Enclosure 3*2*1 Radio shack 270-1801                              $3.19
100K resistor Radioshack 271-1347                              $1.49
Protection circuit board www-all-battery.com 32071                  $6.97
Connector   (You need to Login or Register 015000045                        $1.72- $1.45
2 6-32 X1/2” brass screws                                    ??
GLUE Marine Goop                                          ??
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Like this only do not put the 2 output screws on the same side of the box.  If pliers are dropped on this one they could short out the unit or if in a aluminum canoe they could both touch the side at the same time. And do it neater!
This setup is only suitable for light loads of less than 1 amp because of the small leads. The card max continuous current is 4 amps.
Charging
Car battery charger set to trickle charge and with about 2 ohms in series with the charger. Charge through the protection board using the same connections as the load.
2 .91 ohm 10 Watt RadioShack 10WD91 resistors $1.21 each                        $2.42
I did not have a suitable resistor so I used about 8 inches of some Nickel-Titanium single strand wire I had for a different project.  That is some strange stuff makes a good resistor but hard to make good electrical connection to.
Puckster
A set of 9 Energizer Ultrimate Lithium will supply 250ma at > 11 volts for 12 hours. They can be purchased at Sams Club for about $17/set.

Puckster wrote on Apr 9^th, 2014 at 2:35am:

Yeah MT, I have a hard time with this thread.  I suppose I am about to make this discussion a complete 180 degrees, but what-the-hell, bring along some more AA batteries and forget-about-it!! I think you're over-analyzing. Puckster

Nay way dude.......I brought 16 lithium AA's on last summers trip for only 2 weeks and it wasn't a fishing trip.......Maybe 5 hours a day with a few full days thrown in and I didn't get through the trip.

I had some major snafus thrown in however. I slapped on a skid plate before I left which unfortunately was over my thru-hull transducer AND my backlight was left on full power (there are 10 different levels which you control via the power button, who knew?)

So on what I would term a fishing trip, where I run a line all day everyday, I wouldn't get to fer down the road without a significant power source. Knowledge is power.......

Wow MP, looks awesome. How do I go about getting one? ;D ;D ;D

MT
If your unit were drawing 250ma you should get 12 hours of operations out of 8 or 9 lithium AA’s.
The Lithium AA’S are a 3000mAH source the LiPo I referenced below are a 5000mAH rechargeable. So you will only get about 1.5 times as much operations out of the LiPo’s as a set of Lithium AA’s. You will still need more than one of them.


mastertangler wrote on Apr 9^th, 2014 at 12:18pm:

Wow MP, looks awesome. How do I go about getting one? ;D ;D ;D

Have you ever soldered parts to an electronic board? Can you neatly drill holes and assemble small parts in tight spaces? Do you have a car battery charger and can you hook it up through a resistor?   

My head hurts :-[....

db wrote on Apr 8^th, 2014 at 8:15pm:

My multiple firsthand testing with what I use is: #1 - 8AAs  will easily last me 2 trips ~5hrs a day so.. 100+ hours. #2 - Forget to turn it off at night in an overturned canoe and I consider myself lucky to hear the low battery warning in the morning. A favor Magic? Can you test the bonehead current draw when forgetting to turn 'em off and pinging the Milky Way all night? Since I'm the weakest link. For me that means 16 LI AAs per trip so about a half pound of batteries... plus FISH LO-K-TOR.

Thx, db.  That makes sense to me and is exactly what I do each trip...and I didn't hear the low battery alarm before morning too...  :) 

pine_knot wrote on Apr 9^th, 2014 at 9:32pm:

db wrote on Apr 8th, 2014 at 8:15pm: My multiple firsthand testing with what I use is: #1 - 8AAs  will easily last me 2 trips ~5hrs a day so.. 100+ hours. #2 - Forget to turn it off at night in an overturned canoe and I consider myself lucky to hear the low battery warning in the morning. A favor Magic? Can you test the bonehead current draw when forgetting to turn 'em off and pinging the Milky Way all night? Since I'm the weakest link. For me that means 16 LI AAs per trip so about a half pound of batteries... plus FISH LO-K-TOR. Thx, db.  That makes sense to me and is exactly what I do each trip...and I didn't hear the low battery alarm before morning too...  :)

That is why I prefer a couple of sets of batteries rather than one large set. 

Any one catch what I used for a resistor in the post below?

Thanks to Quentin and zski for the loan of fish detectors.  About 2 hours taking data on Whalon puddle and then plotting it up and this is what I get.

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So the deeper you go the more current you draw but for most detectors not more than 20%. By the way the detector that I liked the best is the Lowrence X-4

My calculations:

Take the square root of your mother's hat size and divide it into the weight of your fish locator = the number of LI AA's to bring on a trip.

puckster

MP: So how deep does that "Whalon puddle" actually get?

Magicpaddler wrote on Apr 9^th, 2014 at 12:03pm:

A set of 9 Energizer Ultrimate Lithium will supply 250ma at > 11 volts for 12 hours. They can be purchased at Sams Club for about $17/set.

That reminds me Magic, I meant to ask, don't you use 9 AAs in your battery tube?

One reason I ask is I've never seen AA batteries come in anything but even numbers so 9 seems like a pain to me. The other reason is a fresh set of 8 in the finder reads 17v which concerned me the first time a borrowed a 12v finder.
1.5v x 8 = 12v.
9 would be 13.5v on the label but 19v in practice?

FWIW the only resistor I saw was the one resistor i saw. What 8" wire where? I know what a circuit is but beyond that I'll take your word for it. I know what a 6-32 is though! :)

I still want to see a bluetooth 'ducer in my lifetime. That cord is a real pain in the butt.

When I said I had the finder on for 5 hours a day I wasn't implying I fish 5 hours a day. I may circle back to fish the odd hump I find but I'd go brain dead fishing more than an hour or two at a crack, 15 minutes if they're biting! No offense but I could fish at home yet don't. I mostly just like catching a glimpse of what I can't see and making the time I do fish more productive.

db wrote on Apr 10^th, 2014 at 7:31am:

When I said I had the finder on for 5 hours a day I wasn't implying I fish 5 hours a day. I may circle back to fish the odd hump I find but I'd go brain dead fishing more than an hour or two at a crack, 15 minutes if they're biting! No offense but I could fish at home yet don't. I mostly just like catching a glimpse of what I can't see and making the time I do fish more productive.

As a paddler who fishes, that's my take on it.
I can fish for longer if that's the only thing to occupy my attention.

On wilderness canoe trips, especially if your close to shore, there is so much going on if you take the time to notice.

  I can't be staring at a screen for hours/fishing when the natural world and all it's wonder passes me by.

Puckster wrote on Apr 10^th, 2014 at 2:56am:

My calculations: Take the square root of your mother's hat size and divide it into the weight of your fish locator = the number of LI AA's to bring on a trip. puckster

Is the weight in ounces or grams?


zski wrote on Apr 10^th, 2014 at 7:09am:

MP: So how deep does that "Whalon puddle" actually get?

83Ft right where you said it would be.  But the wind made it hard to stay there.

quote author=db link=1377347241/80#80 date=1397113869]
Magicpaddler wrote on Apr 9^th, 2014 at 12:03pm:

A set of 9 Energizer Ultrimate Lithium will supply 250ma at > 11 volts for 12 hours. They can be purchased at Sams Club for about $17/set.

That reminds me Magic, I meant to ask, don't you use 9 AAs in your battery tube?

One reason I ask is I've never seen AA batteries come in anything but even numbers so 9 seems like a pain to me. The other reason is a fresh set of 8 in the finder reads 17v which concerned me the first time a borrowed a 12v finder.
1.5v x 8 = 12v.
9 would be 13.5v on the label but 19v in practice?

FWIW the only resistor I saw was the one resistor i saw. What 8" wire where? I know what a circuit is but beyond that I'll take your word for it. I know what a 6-32 is though! :)
.[/quote]

9 batteries verses 8? I have always used 9 but in looking at data that I have recently taken if  you use 8 Lithium batteries when the voltage gets down to 10 V only 5% of the energy would be left in the batteries.  So it would be more economical to run 8.  The data shows that 10 Alkaline are required to get the energy out before the voltage drops below 10 volts.   


Magicpaddler wrote on Apr 9^th, 2014 at 12:03pm:

I did not have a suitable resistor so I used about 8 inches of some Nickel-Titanium single strand wire I had for a different project.  That is some strange stuff makes a good resistor but hard to make good electrical connection to.

Does the name of the material “Nickel-Titanium single strand wire” or the statement “That is some strange stuff” ring a bell? I am sure you have read about it some where!

db wrote on Apr 10^th, 2014 at 7:31am:

but I'd go brain dead fishing more than an hour or two at a crack, 15 minutes if they're biting!

What the...........?

I always thought there was some wires crossed in there somewheres........ maybe a loose wire?......... a complete short is more like it.  ;)

Read through this thread very carefully and made a laser like decision on a battery purchase. I needed a new drill set and ended up buying a Rigid 18 volt combo kit with two Batteries that are rather square shaped for the most part, unlike others with an appendage. ;) These batteries fit perfectly in 4"x6"x2" project box that I purchased at Radio Shack along with two alligator clips and a D/C receptacle and plug for easy disconnect and storage.
:dankk2

RedOwl

---

Tried to get both photos on the same page; oh well I'll stick it here.

RedOwl

---

I just noticed that when I cropped the picture of the depth verses current draw I cropped the depth numbers off the bottom.   Sorry about that.  Each tick on the bottom is 10 Ft and that make the right hand side 90 Ft. The left side is 0 Ft.

Red Owl :thumbup

I like your set-up. I need a new drill and will take a look at that Rigid drill/battery and compare to similar drills.
I like the idea of a dual use set-up.
I also like your clean install with that D/C plug/receptacle.

Is your box waterproof or could it be made so?
Any idea of battery life on your set-up?

Is your box waterproof or could it be made so?

Waterproof? not sure on that I do have a gasket on the cover to make it somewhat water resistant. The D/C receptacle needed to be sealed up on the inside, for that I used hot glue this also secured the the wires inside the box.

Any idea of battery life on your set-up?

Battery life? not sure, batteries are the 18 volt Hyper Lithium Ion rechargeable, I'm pretty sure they are lighter than 8-10 AA's (don't have a weigh scale) and takes up less space. Maybe someone more tech savvy :-/ could do the math and chime in on this.

My score with this set up was mainly dual purpose rechargeable batteries @ 18 volts and eliminating the amount of AA batteries I had to bring while camping -two sets (16) f/ the f/f, 2 f/ head lamps x2 (guy in front), an another 4 f/ a hand held GPS which I may not bring given that a map doesn't requires any batteries.(thats was 24-26 AA's)

I'll be testing this set up on fishing opener while Lake Trout fishing. Any one ever check out Kemo?

Quote:

Any idea of battery life on your set-up?

The reason I asked is I've been looking at these:

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They're not as compact as your Rigid set-up, but you could probably lay them sideways or buy "dry box" to fit.

I'd like a dry box that would hold battery/ fish finder/puck/cable, and still be light enough to haul around.

I do not know what size the Ryobi one plus is but in the video they say if you step up to the lithium plus you get 4AH.  That is stated as a 18 volt battery.  I do not know what voltage a fully charged 18V battery puts out but using the same ratio as some of the stated value verses actual full charge voltage I would estimate fully charged lithium would be around 20 volts.  If this estimate is accurate I doubt it will destroy the detector but it is much higher than required to get good detector operations and my detector does draw more current the higher the voltage goes.  Many of the small detectors draw under 100mA and are probably still under 100mA at 18 volts. At 100mA a 4AH battery will last 40 hours.
If you want light weight 8 Energizer Ultimate Lithium batteries weigh 4.2 oz.  Today I built a water resistant PVC pipe battery holder that weighs   5.8 oz including the mounting hardware.         A set of 8 Ultimate lithium batteries will provide just over 3 AH at between 10 volts and 12 volts.  That will run the same fish detector 30 hours.  Two sets of batteries plus the holder would weigh 14.2 oz and power the detector for over 60 hours. Sams Club sell 8 batteries for about $15.
If you are willing to carry a little more weight look at the following battery
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This is a 5AH battery.  I have one and have tested it. I get over 4.9AH out of it. The price is $22.07 and if you spend a little time looking at it a popup will offer it to you at $20.89.  It needs a protection circuit added to it and information on that is 2 pages back in this thread. The protection box will cost about $10.  That will run your detector for 50 hours. Add another battery and you got 100 hours for less than $60.  I describe a way to charge it through the protection board and a resistor with an automobile battery charger.  I have charged my batteries this way several times. This battery weighs 13.8 oz and adding the box with the protection board in it brings the weight up to 15.6 oz. 

Good stuff MP  :thumbup
I'll probably make something up when I get new 18 volt drill/battery which I want anyways.
If I got 40 hours out of one battery, that's plenty for my "accidental fishing" needs.

i know enough on how to make small electronics do what i want but all the technical stuff is way over my head. i found this article (scroll down to the fish finder portion) and then it has some really neat fish finder/battery info

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That's cool. Here's what I know. I replaced the D cell holder with a AA holder for my X4 and 71 hours seems about right for the AAs. I'd expect Ds to last way longer but all those numbers make my eyes glaze over too. Any thoughts Magic?

That was a good find jaximus  :thumbup

Anyone have any idea what units would draw that 28-35 mA ?

That is the kind of information I wanted to make available.  Unfortunately in the past I have made the same mistake that the writer did and db touched on. The reason many knowledgeable people come to this conclusion is it is hard to find good curves on batteries.  On one trip I carried 8 D cells and they ran out of power.  Last year I carried 18 AA’s (lithium) and they lasted. Now that I have measured the lithium batteries and can see that the voltage does not droop I will use sets of 8 rather than sets of 9 and will only take 2 sets of 8 lithium batteries. I have also cut the wires to the lights on my detector.
If you use 8 alkaline batteries in series (AAA’s or AA’s or C’s or D’s) when the batteries are 35% used up the voltage will drop below 10 volts and the detector will not work well. Most detectors shut off when 50% of the batteries are used up.
If you want to use alkaline batteries put 10 in series.  10 in series will last about as long as 2.8 sets of 8 batteries in series. 
The article has a nice comparison of the current draw between different detectors.  This is most likely the current draw listed in the manual and makes a way to compare different detectors.  I think Lowrance/Eagle lists the highest current the detector will draw.  I come to this conclusion from my own measurements.  For example Zski’s Lowrence X4 is listed in the article as drawing 170mA. Back one page in this thread is my measured values for that detector.  At less than 70 Ft it never draws more than 100mA.
The battery holders that the article suggests will work and I have used them.  I found that they have many (4 per battery) pressure connections that will increasingly have voltage drop across them.  If that is what you are using you may want to replace them every couple of years.
Advantage of Lithium Batteries
1      Much lighter per hour of detector operation
2      Cheaper per hour of detector operation
Advantage of Alkaline Batteries
     Better for the environment

Using 8 alkaline batteries is a very common mistake.  Manufactures will picture alkaline batteries in there battery holders that hold 8 batteries. That said there are some detectors that list the operating voltage down to 7 volts.  Those detectors would use most of the power out of a pack of 8 alkaline batteries.

ST just a quick note on the Ryobi vs Rigid power tool.  I purchased the Rigid combo drill/impact drill and they came with the Li-ion batteries and are guaranteed for life.  Rigid will replace a crapped out battery, you just have to register the serial #s on their website.  I like Red Owl's set up and am ready to retire my Fishin Buddy II that ran on 3 C's for the better part of a week up in Quetico.  Lots of info here on this thread, it should qualify most readers with an EE degree.
Marc

Dr. X,
I like the Rigid brand as well, but my weed whacker crapped out and they had a Lithium/Ion/corded one from Ryobi on sale, so I went with it.
Came with 1 battery and a charger that will charge all their batteries.
I'll probably work on using one of their battery offering for my Sept base camp trip?

Hopefully I won't have any battery failures with the Ryobi?
I must say I was duly impressed with it initially.
Good packing, quality construction, and you can actually understand the directions. ;) ;D

Went on my Quetico trip last week with my new Rigid battery set up and was surprised when the fish finder stopped working when I know it was still reading around 17 volts. So I opened it and pressed the self-test button on the battery and the LED lights flashed suggesting that the battery needed charging, so I tried the second battery the next day and around 17 volts it cuts out, that was after maybe 6-9 hours of run time. :o Big bummer on the Rigid battery setup, was unaware of that battery operating issue? thought it would run long time!
Any suggestion let me know otherwise back to AA's.

I have no idea why that would happen, but since   I was planning a similar set-up with my Ryobi battery, I hope you/someone finds out what happened?
I wonder if the issue could be that the battery when not in the "proper" receptacle on a powertool, somehow goes into some kind of "mode"?

My Ryobi battery for my new string trimmer has held a charge thru a couple of long triiming sessions and still has plenty of juice left. Can't beleive a fish finder would deplete a battery faster than the effort it takes to cut weeds. :-?

I haven't bought a fish finder yet, after reading this, I might do a mock-up here at home and see if I get the same result while I have time to make a AA holder.

I've been re-reading this whole thread and was reminded that Quentin is the one that uses that Ryobi 18 v Lithium battery set-up.

Maybe if he reads this he could go into greater detail (maybe pics) on exactly how his set-up is wired and how he's set-up his fish finder?

I'm looking at my Ryobi battery manual. It talks about battery protection features designed in to the battery packs to protect battery cells and maximize battery life.

For my weed trimmer, it says if the trimmer stops during use, release the trigger to reset and resume operation. If the tool still doesn't work, the battery needs to be re-charged.

I wonder Red Owl if you would of "re-set" the battery by turning the fish finder on-off, if that would of made a difference?

That protection feature is what I suspected as well, I haven't had a chance to connect the batteries to the tools just yet but I'll try that first before I charge them.
The rigid batteries do have the tabs labeled "+ & -" so know I've got them connected correctly.
Back to the battery LED feature which indicates how much battery life you have left, I'll have to test and see how much shows up with a volt meter, I will let you know.

RedOwl

I'm hoping it's something like that?
My Ryobi battery doesn't have that LED feature, which would be nice if it's accurate and not somehow part of the problem?

Most locators display the voltage of the power supply, a handy feature when running off of small batteries.
I pay fairly close attention to this during a trip so that I can see if I have an unusual power drain occurring and may be able to correct it. Things like corroded  or loose contacts or leaving a backlight turned on for example.

Finally got around to the rigid battery testing; before I even put them in the charger unit I tested each and it read 0.00 on the meter-pushed the test button on the battery and all got was a single LED light that would flash. So I put one in the charger and heard funny ;Dclick, so I pulled it out and put the meter on it and it metered at 16.78 volts, did the same thing with the second battery heard the same funny ;Dclick; which was I'm guessing a sort of reset to begin the charge on the battery. Anyway put the meter on it and it read out 19.34 volts; pushed the self-test button on the battery which lit up 3 out of 4 LED lights indicating it still had some life to it.
My take on it is that there is some sort of low voltage protection or cutout to prevent damage to the batteries, which can only be reset when placed back into the charger unit.
First thoughts is how do I over ride this option out in the field.
Anyone?
RedOwl

I re-read my Ryobi manual and it says that if your power tool of choice stops working while your using it, you release the trigger and that will re-set the battery IF it still has a charge.

This makes me think that it might not be something that only the charger can re-set, unless the tool battery holder/trigger is set up like the charger?

Since you have your fish finder set-up made, did you try running it jerry rigged at home and when it dies, just turning the fish finder on/off to see if that would re-set the battery?

I hope our electrical guru MP chimes in, if anyone would know, it would be him.

Quentin didn't have a problem, so maybe it's exclusive to the Rigid battery, or else his Ryobi battery doesn't have that feature.

Now I'm really curious. :-?

When I was out in on the water it shut off and would not power back up…no I'm not going to drag a drill or useless charger out camping with me, its enough that I bring a 20lb meat grinder which doubles as an anchor. ;)
I would defiantly test your battery set up while you can at home.
RedOwl

RedOwl wrote on Jun 25^th, 2014 at 7:42pm:

My take on it is that there is some sort of low voltage protection or cutout to prevent damage to the batteries, which can only be reset when placed back into the charger unit. RedOwl

You got it.
There is a protection circuit that prevents over charging, over discharging and over current. On the protection circuit I purchased to reset the under voltage, voltage needs to be applied to the output of the protection circuit.  I was able to reset this protection circuit by putting a 100 K resistor across the protection circuit.  This allows the battery to continue to supply power even when the protection circuit is tripped but in such low current it would take years to drain the battery. To reset the circuit I needed to disconnect the fish detector and leave it disconnected for a few seconds to allow the output voltage to rise to the battery voltage then connect it back up. 
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I don’t think on the Ryobi battery you have access to the unprotected battery connection so you would need another voltage source (like a charger).  It would not need to supply a lot of current but just have enough voltage.  Problem is Ryobi batteries are kind of expensive and if the protection circuit is damaged the pack is useless. What I would try to reset the protection circuit is two 9V batteries connected in series with a 10K to 100K resistor in series. This would provide an 18 volte source that was only capable of supplying 1.8 mA or less.
How many electrical connections are there on the Ryobi battery?

MP,
Thanks for all that info.

My Ryobi batter pack doesn't have exposed + - prongs that you can easily hook too. I would have to McGyver something there and now with this issue, the idea of using the battery for more than one thing is getting way to involved.

I anticipated this after reading Red Owl's posts and ordered a 10 AA batter holder from Amazon and think I'll go the re-chargeable battery route.

Do you have any experince with this brand MP?

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I read a lot of good reviews about them but I'd take your real world experince over them anyday.

Solotripper
I have never used those batteries but in this thread NotLight has made a battery holder with them.  I do not know if he has had them out for a real test yet but you might ask him.
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They are listed as 2000mAh and that would run most (non color) detectors for over 20 hours IF you keep the back light off.

Thanks MP, I'll contact him after work this weekend. :)

The tube that holds the batteries is ½ inch PVC pipe.  You can use water pipe from the plumbing section of the hardware store or what I prefer is PVC conduit.  Menards sell PVC conduit in 4 ft sections and the PVC fitting for water pipe fit it. Cut a piece 17 inches long.  It will be cut a little shorter later when the exact length can be determined.
You will need two ½ inch PVC caps. Drill 1/8 inch holes near the center of the caps.
Two non-corrosive (brass or stainless steel) screws with 6-32 thread and five 6-32 nuts out of the same material. The best length would be ¾ inch to 1 inch and they need threads the full length. They can be any head shape but I prefer round head. Put a nut on one screw and tighten it against the head of the screw. Put the screw through the hole in one of the PVC cap with the head of the screw inside the cap. Add 2 ring lugs with the flat side of the lug toward the PVC cap and add one nut.   (Ring lug picture.   (You need to Login or Register ) Position the 2 ring lugs so they point 180° from each other and tighten the nut.  It will be difficult to tighten this nut in the future and it should never need to be loosened so make sure it is tight. Sand any burs off of the ends of the 17 inch piece of PVC pipe and glue this cap to one end. Mark this end cap as the negative end of the holder (NEG or –(black wire)). Set the glued pieces aside to dry.  Place a screw through the hole in the other PVC cap add 2 ring lugs and a nut. Position the 2 ring lugs so they point 180° from each other and tighten the nut. This nut should never need to be loosened.  Mark this cap as the positive terminal (POS or +(Red wire)). After the glue has had time to set on the pipe push the POS cap on the other end of the pipe firmly but so you can still remove it.  With a led pencil mark where the edge of POS cap is on the PVC pipe. Put 9 AA batteries flat end first into the pipe.  This is where you may need 3 or 4 hands.  Place the POS cap over the 9th battery and try to hold it straight.  It most likely will not reach the PVC tube.  Measure the distance from the edge of the POS cap to the led pencil mark on the PVC pipe. Take this measurement and subtract 2 inches from it and shorten the PVC pipe by this amount. With all the batteries out of the tube sand the POS end of the tube until the POS cap will slip on and off very easily. Put the POS cap on the PVC pipe with only the force you can apply with one finger and use the led pencil to mark this location on the PVC pipe.  Put 8 AA batteries flat end first into the pipe and add the POS cap.  The edge of the POS cap should be near (1/16 to3/16 inch) the pencil mark but not at the same location as without batteries. If it is in the same location as without batteries shorten the pipe 1/8 inch and re sand and re mark and re check. With 2 pieces of 1/8 inch shock cord about 13 inches each tie a over hand knot in each end of both pieces.  To tie the shock cord to the ring lugs use small nylon braid or heavy fishing line. Take about 7 inch of line and put it through the part of the lug where a wire would go and tie the ends together.  Use a larks head to attach the line behind one of the overhand knots in the shock cord. Connect the other end of the shock cord to one of the ring lugs on the other end of the holder and add the other shock cord between the other two ring lugs. Put the cap on the end of the pipe with less than 8 batteries in it and mark where the edge of the POS cap is on the PVC tube. Put 8 batteries in the tube and add the cap.  Note where the edge of the POS cape is it should be just short of going on as far as it did without batteries in the holder.  One more test pull the cap off about 1/8 inch and let go of it.  It should snap back to rest on the batteries if not sand to make a looser fit or tighten the shock cord.  Add a 6-32 nut to each screw to use to fasten your detector wires to the battery holder.  The holder is done but it needs to be mounted so the POS cap is free to slide on the pipe.  If it is going to be mounted with bungee cord so it can easily be removed all that is needed is a spacer to keep the POS cap from binding.  The lumber section of the hardware store usually has some wood about ¼ X 1.5 X 3 ft. cut 2 pieces about 1.5 inshes long and glue them to the side of the PVC pipe with GOOP.  What I prefer is mounting the battery holder to the side of the canoe under the gunnel.  If you don’t want to stand the canoe on end to get the batteries out of the holed the holder needs to be removable.  To make the holder removable I use TOOL HOLDERS like   (You need to Login or Register or TUBING HANGERS like   (You need to Login or Register .   The TOOL HOLDERS are easier to mount and hold tighter but are harder to get.  Both need the mounting screw put all the way through the wood and sticking out the back side then removed and shortened and reinstalled.   
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To use the TUBING HANGER pull the nail out and throw it away.  Drill a hole 90° to the nail hole and the pipe direction thru the plastic for a wood screw.  Use a larger drill bit to make a relief for the head of the screw.  I used a ¾ inch flat head wood screw which stuck out the back of the wood less than ¼ inch.  I used side cutters to cut it off and a file to reduce the bur before re installing.  To mount to the canoe I placed the clips on the tube.  Tipped the canoe up on its side so the place where I wanted to mount the holder was down.  Smeared a thin layer of GOOP on the bottom side of the wood and pressed it into place and let dry. You are ready to add batteries and connect the detector.

For those who like this type of PVC battery holder or maybe have some ideas of their own using PVC, this source has some fittings that you won't see in most hardwares.

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Well I pulled the trigger and bought a PirahnaMax 165, a basic no frill unit.

Thanks for link MP. I ordered a 10 AA battery holder after reading that 10 give you much longer battery life than 8.

I also bought 12 Panasonic Eneloop Lithuim batteries and a nice charger.

I was in Radio Shack getting some stuff for my power pack build and noticed they have battery holders for 6 AA's.

That made me wonder IF it would be worth it to use 2 x 6 AA holders wired in series as a power source?

I have the extra 2 batteries anyway, but am I thinking wrong about IF 10 is better than 8, 12 would be better than 10?

Unit draws 100 mA ( no backlight).
Humminbird says between 10-20 volts, so with 18, I'd be under that, but is there any benefit from doing it?

It looks like I'm in the market for a new fish finder. My Cuda 242 failed to work properly on our recent trip. It gave all kinds of random false readings. I'm looking for recommendations as to which units are best suited for canoe trips, going easy on power consumption. Hoping to catch an end of season sale. Thanks. 8-)

solotripper wrote on Jul 29^th, 2014 at 1:42pm:

I also bought 12 Panasonic Eneloop Lithuim batteries and a nice charger.

Solotripper
I did not know Eneloop had Lithium or rechargeable Lithium batteries.  Where did you buy them?
I could not see any improvement in my detector performance above 10 volts.  I did see the unit drew more current the higher the voltage went.  So from what I was able to measure if you use more than the correct number of batteries they will last less time. If you do less batteries than the optimum number they will power your detector correctly for less time although they will still have considerable power left in them it will be at too low of voltage to properly operate the detector.
For non-rechargeable batteries I recommend 8 maybe 9 but not 10 Lithium batteries in series.  8 will give you the most hours of operation for the buck and will out last 10.
If you are using Alkaline I recommend 10 in series. I have had better results with Duracell batteries than any other Alkaline.  Duracell also sell a Duracell Quantum which has 33% more power than regular Duracell.  Costco sells both Duracell 2022 (regular Alkaline) and there Duracell Quantum. 
Most rechargeable batteries ( NiMH or NiCad) are lower voltage than the non-rechargeable so they require 10 batteries in series.  I have never tested the kind you bought.  Can you measure the output voltage of your 10 pack? Your fish detector may have a voltage readout if you do not have a meter.
EDIT
Just thought of something did you get Li-Ion or LiFePO4 batteries?  If you did do not connect 8 or 10 of those to your detector.  They are 3.7 or 3.2 volts and you only need 3 or 4 of them.  They also need a protection circuit to prevent over charge and discharge.

MP,

I bought mine from Amazon. Panasonic must of bought the rights from Sanyo.

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I also bought this charger after doing some research.

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They are lower in volts, 1.2.
I don't have a meter, so no help there.

I'm a little confused/ignorant about the idea of having more batteries than optimum you don't get any better run time but will still have considerable power in them?

My manual says between 10-20 volts. I was thinking about the run times Quentin was getting from that 18 volt lithium Ryobi drill battery and thought if I ran 12 x 1.2= 14.4, it would put me in that "sweet spot" longer.

I hooked it up and ran the finder in "simulator" mode just to see if I had things hooked up right.

Maybe when I get the charger, I'll let it run until it quits just to see how many hours I get.

If I turn off depth alarm and hung transducer in a bucket of water that should give me some idea of run time or maybe not?

Your batteries are Ni-MH (Nickel-metal hydride). I looked up some discharge curves on the internet and they run out of power at about 1.1 volts. Another way of expressing that last sentence is as the battery is discharged at a constant current the voltage will slowly go down until it gets down to about 1.1 volts and then drop rapidly.  If you have 10 of those in series when they are fully charged they will put out about 14 volts but will drop to about 12.5 volts in about 2 to 4 hours of detector use. Then the voltage will stay fairly constant until the detector has been on for 14 to 17 hours. At 18 to 20 hours the voltage will be down to about 11 volts.  About 20 minutes later the battery voltage will be so low the unit will not work.  The math says 10 of those batteries (1900mAh to 2000mAh) should run your detector (100mA) for 19 to 20 hours.  I would need 3 sets of those for a 10 day trip.

Thanks MP,
As you can see, I'm more than a little confused about all the different battery types and the merits of each. :-[

For my fishing needs, 19-20 hours would be plenty.

Would it be worth it to use all 12 Eneloops?
I can get those 2x 6-AA holders at my local Radio Shack and my power box has room for that type of set-up.

It would not give longer life to have 12 of those in series although it would do no damage (12 batteries 1.4 Volts each = 16.8 Volts).  You could label the batteries 1 through 12.  For the first day of fishing use batteries 1 through 10.  That night take 1 & 2 out and replace them with 11 & 12 for the next day.  That night remove battery 3 & 4 and replace them with 1 & 2. Continue with this sequence and after 6 days of detector use your batteries would have 5 days use on them.
For this to work you would need to use the detector less than 3.8 hours per day.

I like my depth finder power pig that it is. I have been reading the posts trying to figure out the best way to power the blasted thing since my trip with KF where I promptly went through 16 lithium double A's only fishing a few full days and several hours each evening.

So for WCP I just ended up getting 32 lithium batteries and went through 3 packs of eight and had it on quite a bit. Probably what helped substantially was moving the transducer so it wouldn't have to shoot through a keel guard (Doh!). So OK fine, I am going to pay quite a bit of dough to be happy......but I'm still going to be happy! The DSI imaging is hard to fully appreciate until you have used it ("oh look, there is a school of baitfish in those treetops")......pretty cool gadget.

All this DC powering is a bit over my head. If you have a better suggestion than purchasing 32 lithiums (ouch!) by all means please educate me......just talk s-l-o-w-l-y so I can understand.

One set of 8 lithium batteries will supply 3000mAh of current.  You are looking at taking 4 sets that would be 12000mAh of current. I see 2 other options.
Option 1:  4 X 8 = 32 Lithium batteries 12000mAh. $60.00 for one trip 14.6Oz
Option 2: 5 X 10 = 50 Duracell Quantum Batteries 12000mAh. $20.00 for one trip 2Lb 9Oz NOT COPPERTOPS
Option 3:  3 three cell Lipo 5000mAh battery packs 15000mAh $80.00++ for many trips 3Lb 3Oz
The Lipo battery pack I was looking at is at the following address.
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Notice that the cost of Option 3 is $80.00++.  The ++ stands for the extras you need to not destroy the battery.  Lipo batteries require special chargers so as to not over charge any cell. I believe the following charger is one that would work $25.00
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Lipo batteries require protection to prevent any individual cell from being over discharged.  There are 2 readily available options for protection boards. 
Protection option 1:  Is easy to hook up.
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All it does is sound an alarm and turn on a LED when any cell goes below 3.3 volts. You can still leave your fish detector on and destroy the battery. But it is easy to hook up. If you leave your detector on overnight or while you are away from your canoe and the battery goes down it will destroy the battery. But it is easy to hook up.
Protection option2: A circuit that opens up a switch and shuts the power off to the fish detector when any cell goes below 2.4 volts. $10.00
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This does not come with connectors and must have leads soldered to the board.  The connectors can be gotten by buying some adapters form Hobby king and cutting the connector off that you need.  I have charged through one of these boards and it will protect against overcharging preventing the destruction of the battery but it does not balance the charge reducing the battery capacity.
Let us know what you decide to go with.

Thanks MP for taking the time. You broke it down so I could understand. So basically I can go cheap but for twice as much weight and almost twice as much volume.

The $60 is a tough pill to swallow but it is only a once or twice a year expense......(.funny how things can get rationalized).

Another thought concerning depth finders which have a lot of power (or use a lot of power). I have often wondered if fish can sense a depth finder and who knows, maybe the more powerful versions are actually counterproductive? Who knows?

MT
You spoke of the weight.  Gets more important the older you get.
I have been fishing in 20  Ft of water holding on to a rock wall and had fish appear on my detector then bite.  It was a lake trout.  FUN!

Magicpaddler wrote on Sep 13^th, 2014 at 9:04pm:

MT You spoke of the weight.  Gets more important the older you get

I'm with you MP.......but then again maybe not. Last trip I had quite a bit of "stuff" including one reel which weighed in at a solid pound. So I decided to triple portage. It wasn't bad at all.....so I roll in an hour later, no bigey.

Of course I was solo so I could pretty much call the shots.

mastertangler wrote on Sep 13^th, 2014 at 7:54pm:

Another thought concerning depth finders which have a lot of power (or use a lot of power). I have often wondered if fish can sense a depth finder and who knows, maybe the more powerful versions are actually counterproductive? Who knows?

An often overlooked feature of these big boy units is their usefulness in tracking Bigfoot. All it takes is a slight modification of cell alignment using 16 lithium AA batteries. Of course, no one should stalk bigfoot without a complete backup set. :-?

Anyone ever watch the bigfoot search/reality type cable shows? They make me laugh just thinking about them.

What about using C or D cell batteries? Is there an easy volts/hours/weight vs cost and ease of use formula? The original Lo-K-Tors had two six volt lantern batteries in the case. My new unit came with a D size battery pack. I take ~12# of photo gear alone plus some fishing luxuries. I'm willing to carry and paddle it because having access to those tools makes me happy. I'd have to drop the photo and fishing gear to double portage. It could happen some day but the extra weight still adds to the memories+ column.

Can fish hear? Do they attack squeaky spinner baits to shut them up so they can hear their natural pray move about? Tick tick tick tick braaap. Tic tick tick tick… is what my finder says on a quiet evening. I bought a fish caller from the back of Boy's Life once. It went down six feet and ticked. I could hear that too.

Old Salt wrote on Sep 13^th, 2014 at 10:35pm:

mastertangler wrote on Sep 13th, 2014 at 7:54pm: Another thought concerning depth finders which have a lot of power (or use a lot of power). I have often wondered if fish can sense a depth finder and who knows, maybe the more powerful versions are actually counterproductive? Who knows? An often overlooked feature of these big boy units is their usefulness in tracking Bigfoot. All it takes is a slight modification of cell alignment using 16 lithium AA batteries. Of course, no one should stalk bigfoot without a complete backup set. :-?

I had always scoffed at the idea of Bigfoot until I seen one for myself on the tube. Who knew the things were so ape-like and attracted to sticks of beef jerky? Can you imagine the piles of cash you could make if you could take one around and show it off (think King Kong)?

But first we would need some bait. How about it Old Salt?......I mean they probably don't call you Old Salt for nuthin! Of course we would have to stake you out and make you suffer so you would cry out a bit to attract one but we would certainly give you a cut of all profits.

MT Enterprises
1-800-TUFF-LUCK......ask for Betsy.   

DB
Darn good idea. 
Option 4 : 1 X 10 = 10 Energizer D     14000mAh $12.50 for one trip 3Lb
I have been told that Duracell are better than Energizer but I have no test data to back that up.  Never tested C cells so don’t know how that would work.
I was told when I was a kid that if you put a bumble bee in a jar with some rocks so it would sink it would attract fish.

MP,
This for you. Your the electrical guru here. 8-)
I see there is now all kind of solar panels that are for outdoor use and role pack small enough and are not overly expensive considering the cost of batteries.

Could such a panel clipped open on pack or rigged on canoe, keep a "trickle charge" going to slow battery drain while in use and when not fishing, you'd leave it on during sunlight hours to re-charge the AA batteries?

I remember that being discussed here before but
the technology keeps advancing leaps and bounds and eventualy you would think it would eclipse the need to carry multiple sets of batteries.?

Thanks again for that battery tip you gave me. Leave early Monday morning for a 7 night base camp trip to Cirrus/Kasakokwog/ N. Quetico lk. Q-Dave is taking me fishing after that, that should be an education.

Will let you know how it goes. Hope the weather holds as forecasted, I'm not bringing any ice fishing gear. ;D ;D

ST
Because of the weight-hassle factor I have never considered solar rechargers for a canoe trip. My daughter did some work on a material that could be used as a display device and solar collector.  So the fish detector of the future could charge its own batteries.  What I am reading about solar collectors is the push is on to get the most watts out per dollar invested at the expense of watts out per pound and square inch.  This will make solar collectors on your house profitable but it may sink your canoe.

Spent a couple of nights on Kashakokwog.  I was cleaning the groups fish on a rock away from camp.  My back was killing me so I was hurrying up to get done.  When the fillets were removed from the first fish I threw the carcass as far out in the water as I could without looking up.  When I finished the next fish I did the same thing only the sound of the carcass going splash was replaced by the sound of an eagle just over head.  I looked up to see the eagle carrying the carcass away.  The eagle had timed it perfectly to catch the carcass before it hit the water.
Hope you like Kashakokwog as much as we did.

MP,

I look forward to ANY critter getting my fish carcass after my poor showing this spring. ;D

I was watching PBS Nova show and they had a guy on their who had developed some sort of coating that you applied to a surface and that became a solar panel.
Some smart guy will figure a way to use that for outdoor applications and make a fortune.

I have kicked around the solar panel idea for a while but from what I have read is that direct sunlight is what makes the difference. For example here in Florida might work out pretty good but my suspicion is in the northern climes perhaps not so well with often less than direct sunlight.

Good luck ST on your trip, I have a good feeling for you that the fish may be quite a bit more cooperative for you than your earlier venture. Enjoy yourself.

MT

Talked to Q-Dave this afternoon. He said temps there were in the 40's, overcast and drizzly.

Weather forecast is for low 50's-60's and only 2 days of rain in that 7 night stretch.
Hope that proves true? Q-D said he could see signs that it's going to be early fall and maybe another colder than normal winter?

Thanks for the well wishes, fish or no fish, just being up there is what matters most to me. :thumbup

Need ideas and photos of anyone who has (successfully) mounted a transducer out side of the hull. I have the suction cups but the transducer gets tweaked from the water current or just falls off.....I can't shoot through the hull as I believe the northwinds has a foam core...

I've never done it, but my buddy has this on his fishing kayak. He didn't mount it in a track but used the deck adaptor.

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HighnDry wrote on Jul 31^st, 2018 at 2:34am:

Need ideas and photos of anyone who has (successfully) mounted a transducer out side of the hull. I have the suction cups but the transducer gets tweaked from the water current or just falls off.....I can't shoot through the hull as I believe the northwinds has a foam core...

H&D
It is true that a transducer does not shoot through foam care well at all but you can go around it.  NorthStar canoes have a cut off diamond shaped foam core in the floor of the canoe.  I have a NorthStar Polaris with the same floor as the Northwind and I mount the transducer behind the back seat just off of the foam core.  Works well. I use plumbers putty and it takes me about 10 minutes to switch it from one canoe to another. It sticks well enough that it has never fallen off in many trips to Canada and back but it is easy to remove to put in another canoe.
MP

I'm taking my SR Q17 this weekend and the in-hull option might work. I've always had better luck re: functionality with having the transducer actually in the water. My solo Northwinds has factory guide skid plates as well as the foam core which makes it hard to locate a flat spot on the boat's inner hull to place the skimmer transducer.

I like the rail site's option. I'll have to look at that as well. Still pondering options......

You should have no issues with the SRQ 17. I used silicone caulk to mount transducer under bow seat. Works great. 8-)

I have a SR 18.5 and I am able to shoot thru the hull without issue.  What I do is, I have a piece of closed cell packing foam about 4" x 5" x 1" that I traced the transducer outline on.  Then I cut a hole slightly smaller than the outline so I can push my transducer into it and it is firmly held in place and upright.  I then silicone the foam in place and it allows me to easily remove or install the transducer with just a splash of water to maintain the signal.  I have found the silicone sticks better to the canoe than the foam, so I drilled holes in each corner of the foam and injected silicone to make a soft rivet to hold it in place.   The silicone does come off the canoe with a gentle scrape from a plastic putty knife, leaving no marks.   

HighnDry wrote on Jul 31^st, 2018 at 3:33pm:

I've always had better luck re: functionality with having the transducer actually in the water. My solo Northwinds has factory guide skid plates as well as the foam core which makes it hard to locate a flat spot on the boat's inner hull to place the skimmer transducer.

All the noise the cord alone made as I paddled drove me nuts. Attached was my solution then. The ducer is in the bag of water at the edge of the foam core. There are better solutions but hey man, it worked. I'm offering it as an easy way for you to test placement ideas and maybe help you find what might work best for you.

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DB,

What kind of canoe do you have?

I have a Bell Magic solo and the "shoot thru the hull" method using a foam cutout in my bow works like a charm.

However, I have tried to make the "shoot thru the hull" method on my Wenonah MN II tandem work and I cannot get it to shoot without all kinds of interference. I have placed the transducer puck all over the floor in the bow to no avail. I know there are foam ribs across several areas in my skin coat Kevlar and I was sure to stay away from shooting thru foam core.

From your pic ...it looks like you have a Wenonah canoe ... and it is working for you ?

I am not sure if a MINNESOTA II has some construction material that may be blocking the sonar waves emitted from my Lowrance X-4 depth finder. 

Anyone know about the construction material of a 1992 MN II Kevlar skin coat ?  I thought a 1996 Bell Magic would have similar construction material as a Wenonah  MN II.

The shot was in KF's Wenonah Prism. What flavor exactly I don't know but I believe it had a foam core.

H&D Walley13
It is true that a transducer does not shoot through foam care well at all but you can go around it.  NorthStar Bell canoes have a cut off diamond shaped foam core in the floor of the canoe.  I have a NorthStar Polaris Bell Magic with the same floor as the Northwind your Bell Magic and I mount the transducer behind the back seat just off of the foam core.  Works well. I use plumbers putty and it takes me about 10 minutes to switch it from one canoe to another. It sticks well enough that it has never fallen off in many trips to Canada and back but it is easy to remove to put in another canoe.
MP

MP,

I checked the location of the foam transducer pad in my Bell Magic and I have it placed almost to the end of my bow.  It is outside of the diamond shaped foam core that you said is in a Bell Magic. Now I get why my shoot thru the hull set up works in my Bell.

I peeked into the inside of my Wenonah MN II and it looks as though Wenonah does not use a diamond shaped foam core layout like Bell does. The foam core in the MN II covers a real big area of the bottom of the canoe. There appears to be a very small area that is free of the foam core that is in front end of the bow just behind the skid plate I installed.  I will give that location a try to install my foam pad for the transducer.

All good ideas. I have to figure out how to navigate the factory skid plate and the foam core construction.

HighnDry wrote on Sep 26^th, 2018 at 3:00pm:

All good ideas. I have to figure out how to navigate the factory skid plate and the foam core construction.

Be more concerned with the foam core then the skid plate.  Depending on skid plate material and application many times it will have little effect on performance.  Probably changes cone shape more than anything.