db wrote on Oct 1^st, 2013 at 6:33am:

I much prefer to read other's impressions of places AFTER I've been there

Canoe season is drawing to a close in BW/Q, so for many of us, sometime over the next few months it'll be time to start planning next year's trip(s).

For me, that means choosing a calendar slot and route, then searching PCD, the portage databases and the forums for info on the campsites, portages, and lakes. Then I make custom 1:50000 maps of the route and plan out a day-by-day itinerary.

My itineraries aren't meant to be slavishly followed. Rather, they're sets of benchmarks: if I choose or am forced to delay or accelerate part of a trip, I know where I might have to cut the time short or where I might get to spend extra time if I like the area. And I always know where most of the good campsites are.

I also like to use the itineraries as scratch pads for info that might be of use. Like for the Baird to Unnamed portage: "The high route (preferred, not shown on map) starts at a small landing 200 m S of the knee deep bog route takeout"

Does this take all the joy of discovery out of tripping? Quite the opposite: Once all my options have been clearly laid out beforehand, I never have to do much thinking and can spend my valuable canoe time living "in the moment". A quick look at the topo map and you know pretty much what a given lake or river looks like before you get there anyway, so in one sense there isn't much discovery left regardless of how much planning you do. But the weather and seasons are always changing, and the small scale details of the landscape are always unpredictable, so in another sense, it's almost all discovery, no matter how many trip reports you read in advance.

What approach do other people take to canoe trip planning?

We do not plan that carefully, and even when we took longer and more difficult trips (read that: when we were younger and in better physical condition) we really didn't.

First we choose a date and decide how many days the trip will be.  Then we pick an entry point based upon how many travel days we expect and if we want to have layover days.  We always plan for at least one layover day/wind day, sometimes more. 

We do sometimes read information on portages on our planned trips, but never about campsites and we never plan to stay at a particular site.  Sometimes we have hoped for one, especially if we were repeating a lake and want to stay at a remembered site that we liked a lot, but that usually doesn't work out anyway.   :(

I really prefer not to have information about the campsites, as I like to be surprised when I see them the first time.

We only take the standard Fisher or McKenzie maps and don't take a GPS or make itineraries ahead of time.

Actually, now that I think about it, our planning hasn't changed hardly at all in 42 years.  That's sort of scary, isn't it? :-/

I'm with Joe 100%. I do almost exactly what he does in getting ready for a trip. I've always said that, whether it's a canoe trip or some other trip, half of the enjoyment comes from planning it.

Since our Quetico trips are almost always in September, it means I have to start planning in early January to get maximum benefit of this planning phase!   (You need to Login or Register

in years past we had a little more difficult time getting the week we were going determined being that we all were in college and my little brother was involved in collegiate athletics that ran into june (depending on how well he performed).

now that we are all graduated and are settled in jobs, its pretty easy. when we are all together around christmas time we pick a week in june.

i pretty much am planning all year round. im always on the lookout for items that would make portaging easier, fishing more successful, bugs less annoying, weather variation more tolerable.

usually about 1 month before our entry date all the gear gets pulled out, tents get waterproof sprayed, as do the packs. everything is run over with a fine tooth comb. tarps are refolded to pack smaller and everything is then packed away. in spurts of excitedness as the days grow closer to leaving, i pull everything out and repack. this happens probably 3-4 times. i pay special attention to the water purifier and make sure the filter is clean and dry (one year, in my brothers custody since the last trip, the filter made its way up there full of mold, never again)

as for the trip itself, we dont really plan. we pick a spot to basecamp (always the same spot, with a backup, just in case) and go from there. one day we might try a more movement/exploration based where wed look to plan a bit more.

but then again, for us, its all the about the fishing.

My trip planning is along the lines of Spartan II.  Too much detail makes me physically tired! 

My wife, on the other hand, is a classic analyst.  To her, there is no such thing as too much information, too much detail, too many options.  For me, I prefer the view from 30,000 feet.  Give me a general idea and that's good enough. 

Fascinating how we all  differ in interpreting information.  It's been the subject of advanced degrees, books, and technical workshops. 

How boring life would be if we were all the same.

prouboy

My approach was once like jax's. I'd fine tune gear, page through catalogs upon my return and pack and repack again and again starting in January. I really enjoyed doing it too. That was actually a big part of the overall trip for me in those pre-internet days. That's why I started the forums but in a way, I kind of miss those days. A friend and I would even do reconnaissance trips in May for group trips later that year. There where no maps with dots that we knew of at the time.

Now my wife will normally start bugging me saying my window is closing and I find my list of what worked and what didn't from last year and arrange my life only to decide where to go a night or two before I leave.

I do check the PCD on lakes I don't know because I like a good campsite for layover days. My taste is a little different sometimes but that's OK too. At least I'm relatively sure there's a site there worth checking and not just a dot on a map.

Most of the planning I do now is paying bills and making a map with circles and arrows for my wife in case I mess up.

Seems we all have our own ways to plan and trip, but there are many similarities.  Up until the past couple years, I planned in great detail--maps, numbers of days, routes, alternate routes, campsites, reservations months prior, portage information, food lists, hotels, tows, you name it. 

Now I just sorta sit around late winter and spring deciding how many trips, how many days, and the general area I want to visit.  I'll look at the forums and the PCD for campsite/portage/fishing info.  Last few trips I've found the campsite data to be hit and miss with someone's 5-star being a 2-star for me or vice-versa.  I'll get out my McKenzie maps and dot the prime campsites to look at along the way.  If I'm traveling to a new more remote area for me, I'll make a portage note or two if available on the maps.  I don't bother with GPS and other electronic means of navigation. 

Since I drive about 1000 miles each way, I'll make Q reservations 2 weeks or so in advance along with bunkhouses/hotels/tows.  Then I'll prep the canoes, tents, tarps and packs.  A couple days prior to departing, I'll update my checklist, permethrin my clothing, purchase food and start packing the camping and fishing gear.  Last thing I do is leave an itinerary with my wife, check everything off a list as I pack it and put it into the car, give her a kiss and I'm off.

I do a lot of planning.  you have to for the long loop trips I like to do, travelling every day but for one layover day (usually).  I "need" to be halfway thru the loop by mid-trip so I can get back on time.  I do a detailed itinerary breaking up the trip into segments - each lake and each portage, by how long I estimate the segment to take, and total up the pieces into a longish travel day or 10 or 12 hours(thoug I'll often alternate shorter days with longer ones) - then I fine tune the trip if I need to cut off some miles somewhere, or maybe plan a sidetrip if I have that extra time.  I've been thru most of the park, so I already have those segments figured out from previous trips, so its not that much work to lay out a days travel.  Usually, I alread know the campsites, but if moving thru a new area or someplace I haven't been to for a long time, I will use the PCD to check them out.  I'll generally have a destination campsite in mind for the end of each day, along with several other choices as backup in case the site I wanted is taken, or if I have to stop short for the day.

Gear is pretty easy - just go thru the checklists.  Much of the stuff I take to Quetico is Q-centric - its just used for Quetico, and stays together in a box.  Packing the food is what takes the most time for me.  Then its fine tuning the gear and food to get the weight down to what I'm willing to carry.

its easy to not do any planning if you are taking 10 days to travel a 5 day loop, or just base camping - but to cover a 10 day loop in 10 days, you need to plan a lot better.

These days, planning is agreeing on when and where and waiting for Pascanell to show up in my driveway.

With the exception of food, we basically stay packed for canoe camping all year so we can head to the cabin for long weekends and sneak down through Batch or Beaverhouse 3-4 times a summer.

I keep all my outdoor gear in specific tote boxes except clothing items that serve multiple needs.

I like to start buying food stuffs and have all that ready well before a trip.
I do check/run my Peak 1 stove before a trip because last thing I want is too play stove mechanic in the woods. :( Everything else is always repaired after a trip before being packed away.

I lay out my intended route and pack the necessary maps in case along with the overall park map incase I decide to really deviate from planned route.
I don't mark campsites unless I read on the QJ there close to good fishing spot.
Same with portages. I might read the trip reports but as we all know, like campsites they can really vary from one paddler/season to another.

Too much info at least for me takes away the joy of discovering someplace that is brand "new".

Round about December I'll start planning for our 3-week August trip.  The planning is getting pretty easy since we have more or less settled on WCPP as our general destination.  The dates are basically determined by the train schedule - I know we'll be leaving Toronto on a Tuesday evening and leaving from Red Lake Road well before dawn on a Friday so the total trip including travel ail be 26 days beginning on a Tuesday and ending on a Saturday. 

As to the actual route, I do consult with Harlan with what we're looking for and he offers some possibilities.  The great thing about WCPP is that there are so many lakes that adjustments to the route can easily be made on the fly but things like put-in and take-out need to be co-ordinated with Harlan.  And of course if we decide to fly-in or fly-out then that has to be planned as well.

I usually do a short spring trip and a short autumn trip that sandwiches the big one and after the autumn trip I go through all my gear as I put it away so that, for the most part, everything is ready to go in the spring.  New gear I might choose to buy or repairs that need to be done give me something to do in the dark days of winter.

As for campsites, I like to know if there are particularly good ones that we might want use as layovers but what Harlan or someone else thinks is a great site is not always what I'm looking for, so we get what info we can and then check things out as we go.  As for portages, it's a crap shoot at the best of times.  We go out in August when the water is usually lower so what might have been a nice little creek paddle (on the map) could easily turn into a major bog slog.  This past trip was a case in point.  I look at a 1000 M port on the map and think, "That might be tough."  Whereas I won't pay much attention to some little 70 M affair.  And you know how it goes (this past trip it seemed like in every case) the long ones are walks in the park and those little wee ones turn out to be murder.  As we're wading thigh deep in primordial goo through what was supposed to be a lovely, scenic creek paddle I often have evil thoughts about Harlan.  But truthfully, I don't expect Harlan to give me some kind of guarantee (although he's told me some pretty funny stories about folks that do!) If I wanted guarantees I'd go to Adventureland where all difficulties are obviated with fairy dust.

Planning is my "Happy Place". I'm always planning a trip, usually several, and often fall asleep thinking about it. This past summer after setting my boat down on the shores of Conmee I spotted two fat largemouths.......that started me planning a Largemouth/panfish trip in the Q (how cool would it be to fish plastics in the treetops for fat bass)

I try and get in an hour workout in the evening and always have a map or some topo of a lake out on the table.......the everglades, quetico, Georgian Bay, 
WCP etc. Between sets I hit the pause to collect my stuff and have a big magnifying glass out to "plan".

Of course you can plan all you want but the ability to shift on the fly has its merits as well. I like a trip to have at least a basic outline however.   

You don't have it bad until you have park topo maps on your cell phone.  :o

dd

solotripper wrote on Oct 2^nd, 2013 at 4:44pm:

I do check/run my Peak 1 stove before a trip because last thing I want is too play stove mechanic in the woods. Too much info at least for me takes away the joy of discovering someplace that is brand "new".

Another Peak stove guy!!  I love it.  I have collected 4 Peak stoves over the years, and I take two with me on a trip. I found a guy in the Twin Cities who repairs them, and I've been to him a few times.   

And I couldn't agree with you more about "too much info" and the joy of discovering.  My wife and I are planning a trip to Ireland....and I DON'T want to see pictures of the place!  I want to discover it and be surprised and awed by it.  But in the interest of full disclosure, my wife is a fanatical planner/analyst, so she'll have the trip fully planned....   

prouboy

I have a old Peak 1 multi-fuel. Other than a new fuel cap gasket, it's been bulletproof.
I wish they still made them.
I'll keep in mind you know a repair guy, if I ever need one.


Quote:

But in the interest of full disclosure, my wife is a fanatical planner/analyst, so she'll have the trip fully planned....

But being a smart wife, ;) she'll "let" you have your fantasy and only step in if your in danger of crashing and burning.

My sister and bro-in-law went to Ireland/Scotland. Sister is a anal retentive planner/scheduler. Bro-in-law is a deal with it on the fly.
This was back before Smart Phones and laptops etc that people take now.
2nd day in Ireland, my sister loses her little itinerary packet and goes into full blown disaster/trip is ruined mode. :'(

Bro-in-law takes charge and they get where they needed to be with some great experiences along the way and memories to last a lifetime.

Even my sis said it was the best trip they ever took, but old habits are hard to leave behind and she' still anal retentive about things like that. ::)

Unless it's life or death/ can't miss connections, to much planning/detail locks you into the very stress your looking to escape IMHO.

The only planning I do is considing the limits of my tripping partners. It's good to journal their feelings during a trip and not wait till memories fade.

So far;
Only one longer portage a day.
More layover days.
No dry creeks in the fall. Pulling canoes through mud, not good.

New to the list is better fishing. They saw the pics of our tow partners on the way out that had stayed on McAree all week fishing. They don't understand how much effort those guys put into fishing, just saw some nice fish pictures.
Thx Dan  ::)

everytime my trip group gets together we discuss our plans for the next year.

now that we own enough canoes and have a method of transport for them (a crazy roof rack i built to hold 2) and settled on a trip size of 4 (at least for the past few years), all the hard stuff is done. everyone rides in my SUV with the 2 canoes on top, all the gear fits inside, including 4 adult males comfortably.

when you have more people, that means more transport vehicles, more canoes and possibly a trailer, it becomes more difficult.

i live right in the middle of the state and between all the guys that go on the trip. i have a big yard/driveway for parking and have access to a 24/7 walmart, a fleet farm and a gander mountain. those last minute impulse buys are some of the best ideas!!

"planning" for the most recent trips has been deciding how much fishing tackle to take

Jax -- feel fortunate you have a regular "trip group." 

When "the group" begins to fall apart, it's been my experience it's a real scramble finding a third or a fourth. 

You must live near Stevens Point!

prouboy

Puckster wrote on Oct 5^th, 2013 at 3:05am:

Jax -- feel fortunate you have a regular "trip group."  When "the group" begins to fall apart, it's been my experience it's a real scramble finding a third or a fourth.  You must live near Stevens Point! prouboy

most definitely i feel pretty lucky to have the crew i do. being that 3 of us are brothers and the 4 is an adopted brother, im hoping the group never falls apart

stevens point is a 12 minute trip!

you are a lucky man!

My best friend "retired" a few years ago, at 72, from wilderness tripping; and now I always seem to scramble to get a foursome formed. 

Mike

Doing the trip is the best part but the planning easily comes in second place for me. When I get home from a good trip it takes days to get canoe tripping out of my mind. I will be into the Bing and Google images looking for what I may have missed or just setting in my memory what the country looked like compared to the satellite images. Of course it easier when you get Denton Doc interested in the same area. Four eyes are better than two. By the time I get back to Opasquia PP next summer those passages should be very familiar. How to get to the next lake? That's the fun challenge once the trip is underway!! :D

During the in-between times - and especially during hard-water season - memories & planning are what get you through.

I am extraordinarily selfish when it comes to planning.

What goes into planning the "events" of the trip revolve around the party I'm travelling with.  Doesn't sound very selfish so far, does it?  Ah, but the people who become my travelling party  (& this is the selfish part)  are expressly selected because of the type of trip that I wish to do.

Two out of three years it seems the most I can pull together is a basic "milk run" trip (ie. we're in Quetico, we're doing layovers every other day, & while there usually is at least SOME new water involved in all my trips, we're covering fairly well-known territory).  These trips almost plan themselves, anymore. Around January I'm zeroing in on a route with party members whose preferences for fishing, camping, exploring don't change all that much.  Around about May I zero in on a food list for our trip between mid-June & mid-July.  My September trips with my wife are even easier to plan (I let HER worry about the food selection!).

About every THIRD year or so, however, I am up for a real adventure of some sort.  In recent years, "adventures" seem to mean that I follow in the footsteps of Martin Kehoe to some truly remote place... like WCPP's Irvine Lake (the hard way) or next year up to Opasquia PP.  In the old days, it meant my son or brother & I "bushwhacking" somewhere off the beaten path in Quetico.  In any case, these trips require significantly more research and planning.  These type trips can also mean significantly more "stressful conditions" so ensuring you have the right party composition takes on oh-so-much-more importance.

These "adventure" trips are typically longer in both duration (often 14 days or so) and miles paddled.  Your "estimates" re: how often you will be washing clothes or eating fish for dinner become more critical.  Obtaining decent/reliable maps to some of these places can be a real chore.  You find yourself going beyond the usual commercial map sources to: talking with outfitters or paddlers or speakers at some convention who may have some experience (or a close facsimile thereof).  You go to satellite images to check on possible portages and campsites.   You do website researches & read every last post on the topic.  Then, I prepare all questions that need to be resolved beforehand in time for the annual QJ gathering at CanoeCopia... because that is likely the ONLY time when I will have a chance to discuss an itinerary and gain alignment face-to-face with the other paddlers in my party.

For example, our paddling party of four - scheduled to enter Opasquia next summer - initiated loose discussions re: goals, routing, and equipment needs well over a couple months ago.   Partly, we wanted to be first in line to book the limited number of canoes available.  At least as important, however, is: I think we just wanted to get the FUN started.  Planning IS fun.  Setting goals is fun.  Seeing a plan come to fruition is fun.  Heck, for the first time in forever, I am NOT even the main organizer of next year's outing (three of us are kind of sharing that responsibility; the fourth is a raw rookie whom we share torment shamelessly) and I expect it will be more fun than ever.

How much planning do I do?  For an adventure year trip, I'll do as much as I can conceivably cram in... because I have such a blast doing it.   Where can we expect to see pictos?  Where is that terminal moraine?  What are the 2-3 most likely spots where we'll find a portage or a campsite on a given lake?  Any known elk or wolverine sightings on this or that lake?  Any first nation camps nearby?  What type of tackle has proven effective on these lakes?  What is the drainage flow pattern?  What does the historical data tell me about rain or heat?   I eat that stuff up.  Keeps my mind keen on what I'm about to get into.  Helps me get ready for much (but never all) of what I will encounter.

Re: planning for adventure trips, I am insatiable.  It is what keeps me "primed" right up until my favorite day of the year... the day when we jump in our vehicles and journey north.

Jimbo   8-)

Jimbo wrote on Oct 14^th, 2013 at 6:11pm:

Any known elk or wolverine sightings on this or that lake?  Jimbo   8-)

Um, let's make that "caribou" and NOT elk.

Certainly I WOULD be VERY interested in any elk sightings, of course....

Jimbo   8-)

Jimbo's excellent post prompted a thought relating to "leadership" on a canoe trip. 

I've generally "led" trips in that I plan the route and buy the food. Leading a group of equally experienced paddlers however (most of the guys I go with), leadership is a very subtle thing, and never does a "leader" actually make unilaterally decisions.  Perhaps almost by self-selection, the friends and acquaintances I paddle with are of like mind and canoeing/camping style. Group dynamics has never been an issue, until very recently.   

On a recent first time trip with experienced acquaintances, my paddling buddy and I encountered the "I don't do it THAT way!" mentality when it came to many aspects of paddling, camping, and fishing.  It proved to be an interesting, sometimes tense, but also learning experience. My buddy and I had to consciously decide to not bicker about or dwell on small things, and because of that we had a good trip. We actually learned new techniques, as I think the other two guys also learned a few things from us. 

But I'm curious, have other QJrs experienced an occasional tense moment when there is a difference of opinion between/among experienced campers?  (Who's in charge?)  Did it come to blows?   :-/  Or did you figure out an approach to avoid what could have been a tense situation? 

I know this is a bit of a diversion from the "planning" topic, but maybe not too off topic....(I'll let the moderator decide.)

prouboy

Puckster wrote on Oct 14^th, 2013 at 8:42pm:

Jimbo's excellent post prompted a thought relating to "leadership" on a canoe trip.  I've generally "led" trips in that I plan the route and buy the food. Leading a group of equally experienced paddlers however (most of the guys I go with), leadership is a very subtle thing, and never does a "leader" actually make unilaterally decisions.  Perhaps almost by self-selection, the friends and acquaintances I paddle with are of like mind and canoeing/camping style. Group dynamics has never been an issue, until very recently.    On a recent first time trip with experienced acquaintances, my paddling buddy and I encountered the "I don't do it THAT way!" mentality when it came to many aspects of paddling, camping, and fishing.  It proved to be an interesting, sometimes tense, but also learning experience. My buddy and I had to consciously decide to not bicker about or dwell on small things, and because of that we had a good trip. We actually learned new techniques, as I think the other two guys also learned a few things from us.  But I'm curious, have other QJrs experienced an occasional tense moment when there is a difference of opinion between/among experienced campers?  (Who's in charge?)  Did it come to blows?   :-/  Or did you figure out an approach to avoid what could have been a tense situation?

Hmmmmmm.  I think there is a reason I generally paddle a solo canoe and pack as though I'm traveling solo ... if you catch my drift.  :P

dd

I get your drift DD!  I tried solo tripping, but it's just not for me.  I suppose if you're set up to go solo you always have the option of striking out on your own if things don't go well.  I probably should have kept my Bell Merlin II as it also solves the "odd-number" problem.  Oh well, I may pick up a Bell Magic one of these days. 

But the idea of striking out on my own for an extended trip...yikes, sitting on a rock with my dog watching the sunset just doesn't do it for me!  But for you guys who do, I am in awe of you...

prouboy

Leadership and who is and who is not the decision maker is all about the cast of characters IMO. Get some alpha dogs with type A personalities, stick them together in a tandem and trouble could be in the offing.

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I'm with Jimbo.........I'm mostly laid back as long as I have my own boat and can call my own shots. I guess being the CEO of a fortune-less 500 company you just get used to do things your own way.

The best leaders are more along Jimbo's approach. The group needs some common goals. And there is a time a leader needs to step up, like cautioning about dangerous conditions. But mostly the best leaders are good hosts, not type A's. You can decide after the trip if leading the group was satisfying and you'd invite them again.

A big part of the planning is getting the group's abilities and desires sized up. You may need to do some pre-trip coaching to novices about what is possible.

I think the absolute key is finding the right canoe mates, if you're a tandem canoeist!

prouboy

While I can generally get along with anyone, I do have a loose rule-of-thumb when it comes to my camping mates; that being  I won't trip with the "3 C's": Cops, Clergy or Californians.

Cops - ALWAYS need to be in charge.  I have yet to meet an exception.

Clergy - Too many "rules" and cannot typically handle the unexpected.  There are some exceptions but most just like to hear themselves talk.

Californians - just goofy all around and typically need to change clothes 4-5 times a day.

However, the person I cannot stand to trip with is usually me.  I have a tendency to sleep late, burn dinner, lose fish, be indecisive, get lost occasionally and often forget items in the car or at home.  Plus, I'm a real jerk.

PJ -- so, when are we going canoeing?

prouboy

PhantomJug wrote on Oct 16^th, 2013 at 2:23am:

Plus, I'm a real jerk.

Your not alone ;)........just ask the guys on the overnight boat ("REEL, REEL, REEL"....."you sure your real job isn't a hairstylist?"..........."Sleep?....It's only 3 A.M."......."get another chum block out and do it now, I can't do everything"......"what are you doing, trying to drown that fish?") Can you say "Capt. Ahab?" 

The three C's......I like it with the exception of the clergy (my pastor is a martial arts expert, taught self defense to the 10th mountain division, was and still is a highly paid bodyguard to high profile evangelists, combat certified instructor with a handgun>>dealing with the unexpected is his business). Check him out...Kurt Owen.
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I guess I have just been lucky and have never had to trip with anyone that I had to ask the question "Are you for real?". My leadership philosophy is let folk generally do what they want. If they want to sleep in, fine. If they don't want to collect firewood, no bigey. As long as I have a boat and a fishing rod I can easily entertain myself. If I have to do a little extra work then so what? But the guys I have gone with so far are a real pleasure and have been open to most of my travel suggestions........ 

As long as I don't have to wait on someone or baby sit them, I don't really care what they do.

Group solo gives people the freedom to do their own thing and in the evening you can socialize as much/little as you want.

Tandem in a group you can do the same, as long as you/paddling partner are similar in styles.
What I hate is the idea that the majority has to cater to the needs of a single/few who decide once underway that they no longer want to do the trip they agreed too.


Quote:

However, the person I cannot stand to trip with is usually me.  I have a tendency to sleep late, burn dinner, lose fish, be indecisive, get lost occasionally and often forget items in the car or at home.  Plus, I'm a real jerk.

That must mean that Pascanell is a SAINT ;D

Mike -Anytime brother.

MT - Thanks for making my point for me.

ST - Pascanell is 10x the person I will ever be.

PhantomJug wrote on Oct 16^th, 2013 at 2:24pm:

MT - Thanks for making my point for me.

Geez, I keep extending the olive branch and keep getting smacked, but that's OK.    
 

mastertangler wrote on Oct 16^th, 2013 at 4:02pm:

Geez, I keep extending the olive branch . . . .

You can keep it.  Really.

I with Prouboy, I want to go canoeing with PJ.  I meet PJ's three C requirements, plus I can be a jerk.

PhantomJug wrote on Oct 16^th, 2013 at 7:45pm:

mastertangler wrote on Oct 16th, 2013 at 4:02pm: Geez, I keep extending the olive branch . . . . You can keep it.  Really.

I never cast away those who wish me goodwill. Oh well........to each their own. If you ever change your mind I never hold grudges (I hope things work out for you.)

Where were we anyway? Is this thread about planning or is it about leadership?

[quote author=PhantomJug link=1380657191/33#33 date=1381933459]Mike -Anytime brother.

PJ -- Deal. 

Currently sitting in a hotel in Cleveland, after an 11 hour drive from Vermont, and looking at another 13 hours of driving to get home. 

I'll PM you when I get there.  Looking forward to bagpipe music. 


prouboy

PhantomJug wrote on Oct 16^th, 2013 at 2:23am:

While I can generally get along with anyone, I do have a loose rule-of-thumb when it comes to my camping mates; that being  I won't trip with the "3 C's": Cops, Clergy or Californians. Cops - ALWAYS need to be in charge.  I have yet to meet an exception.

im a dispatcher, my JOB is to TELL COPS WHAT TO DO... mua ha ha!!! should someone add that to your list, i would think communications technician should fit the theme of "C's"

that said, i plan to do a trip with a bunch of cops this next year

jaximus wrote on Oct 17^th, 2013 at 1:20am:

that said, i plan to do a trip with a bunch of cops this next year

Please tell me when and where so I can plan next years trips accordingly.

PhantomJug wrote on Oct 17^th, 2013 at 3:47am:

jaximus wrote on Oct 17th, 2013 at 1:20am: that said, i plan to do a trip with a bunch of cops this next year Please tell me when and where so I can plan next years trips accordingly.

You might want to do a little pre-trip trip with those cops before commiting to a real trip. ;)

I have few active duty/retired cop friends, and while it's not good to generalize anyone, I can honestly say that without exception they're prone to do things that would get you arrested because they belong to that blue fraternity :o

I respect them for doing a hard job that takes a toll, but many can't leave the job and the mentality that it takes to do it behind when they're doing "civilian" activities.

I have a cop/deer hunting story that's illustrates my point but it might be better in a PM if your interested.