db wrote on Oct 24^th, 2013 at 10:21pm:

... About 30 years ago, as I paddled out at the end of a particularly challenging trip for me (at the time) using "never again, never again, never again" as cadence for every stroke of the paddle for miles 'n miles before the take-out....... I haven't missed a year since but for those few hours, you couldn't have paid me enough to do the same thing again.

LOL!

I still remember starting out wilderness canoeing as a twenty-something in Algonquin. My buddy and I had come back from a trip with one of those "Never again" portages, very pleased with ourselves about how tough we were. I think the portage was about 200 m long with a 3 m rock slab uphill section at the start, something that nowadays we would all blast through without blinking.

Like db, I've kept coming back. Seems after a few months, the memory of the previous year's challenging section fades, and planning for the next year's trip usually involves something that's even longer, boggier, and buggier than the previous year. And when I make it through that trip ("Last year wasn't too bad, but this one - Never again!") the cycle starts over.

Have others had the same experience?

IMHO it's not a good trip unless you have some adversity to overcome no matter how small.

I wouldn't even of minded my former tripping pals whining/bitching IF we were moving forward and not just dawdling away our travel time.

I've learned something every outdoor/camping trip I've ever been on. Before QJ I would think about problems I encountered and hopefully a better solution would come to mind.

What's great about posting trip reports here if your honest, is that you get feedback from others who've ran into the same problems or you "enlighten" others.

Giving/getting that "duh" moment in replies is why I enjoy anyone's efforts to do a trip report.

If you don't hit some rough spots you start to take the great ones for granted.

All "women" hate to be taken for granted, Mother Nature included. ;D

Fundamentally, ST, I agree with you.  But I have to say that at this point in my paddling career I don’t go looking for adversity … I know it will find me.  This past year’s trip into WCPP was a case in point.  My wife and tripping partner has made it abundantly clear that travel days shall not be more than 6 hours and include no more than 5 portages in a given day.  So I planned a route that adhered to that as much as I could.  But if you want to go from Carroll Lake to the Haggart River, for example, then there is going to be a string of 8 or 9 ports, albeit short ones and no way around it and no place to stop. 

Then too, you can never tell; what looks like a hop, skip and a jump on the map can turn out to be the portage from hell.  Our first two travel days were among the most grueling I’ve ever done – 8 to 9 hours under a blazing sun of absolute thigh deep bog slogging through marshland and, oh while we’re at it, lets throw in a few beaver dams just in case we’re feeling bored.  I’m definitely not looking for that sort of thing but I also have to say that we loved it; loved working together and dealing with it.  But other than two days of that, our other travel days were pretty much according to plan – 5, 6 hours and no more than 5 portages – and we like that too, thanks very much! 

When I was younger: longer, tougher, more challenging was what I was all about.  But my baby has educated me about taking the time to smell the roses (or the swamp gas as the case may be) and what baby wants, baby gets! 

Almost every time!

It’s usually an inner voice saying “yup, I think THIS will be my last trip”. I heard those words on my first trip when I did 11 portages in one day to get to that special lake only to be greeted by 36 hours of steady rain and plummeting temperatures. I heard the words on my mid-May trip and awoke nearly every morning to thick frost and snowflakes then tried to lay on sun warmed rocks during the day to find comfort. I heard the words when I tried to start a fire to get warm after an all day soaking rain in temperatures that never reached above 50F, only to discover the onset of hypothermia and wet wood was making that task extremely difficult. Only the will to not panic kept the situation from turning dangerous. I heard those words when my brother–in-law when ape $#!+  and my sons  and I actually contemplated paddling out, the 3 of us in a tandem canoe, leaving him with the other canoe and no clue how to get out. I heard the words again when I was wind bound on an island for 2 days and finally paddled off with white knuckles in 3 foot rollers. I heard the words when we ran out of food on day 5 of a 7 day trip. Again they came to me when I nearly T-boned a cow moose and her calf on my midnight drive home. None of the reasons for these thoughts to enter my mind are as severe as some stories I’ve read here, but still I have these thoughts at some point on almost every trip.

I’ve been hearing these words for about 12 years now.

Still I return.

Kerry, ditto here. There's enough challenges without looking for them. Read about Samuel Hearn and he wasn't successful till he agreed to let his Indian guides bring their women along. The biggest compliment to someone out in the barrens is telling them they look like they're getting fat.

Having some gals along and easing the pace a bit can make for an enjoyable trip. Keep'm warm and happy. Stay within yourself so you keep doing all the little things right.

Jim J Solo wrote on Oct 31^st, 2013 at 3:11pm:

Kerry, ditto here. There's enough challenges without looking for them. Read about Samuel Hearn and he wasn't successful till he agreed to let his Indian guides bring their women along. The biggest compliment to someone out in the barrens is telling them they look like they're getting fat. Having some gals along and easing the pace a bit can make for an enjoyable trip. Keep'm warm and happy. Stay within yourself so you keep doing all the little things right.

JimJ -

Samuel Hearn, David Thompson, Alexander McKenzie, Simon Fraser... those were some pretty tough cookies!  Any QJer wishing to read about real wilderness hardships needs to read some of THEIR biographies.

Good point about bringing women along.  They can often dampen down the otherwise misguided notions of macho guys (overdosed on testosterone) in a healthy manner (ie. I do fewer stupid things when my wife goes along... and NEVER any bushwhacking).

Jimbo  8-)

jimmar wrote:  Almost every time!

I do not remember ever saying "never again" although I have had my share of miserable moments paddling against wind, doing hot and hard portages, sitting out a snowy cold day, swimming my swamped kayak to shore.  I am usually dragging my feet about going back to civilization and hope I get a chance to make a 3-4 week trip sometime soon before I get too old to do it.  ;)

I have said "never again" when on a solo trip a few times. I've made 6 now and the first 4 I know I said I would never go solo again but I kept on doing it.  The last 2 I've calmed down and know what to expect. I'm looking to start doing group trips again but I know I will always go solo if I have to.

The things that get me to the point of never again when solo have to do with the isolation and the goings on in my mind at the time. My last solo was the first time I took a dog and it did not have the feel of a solo at all. We were in it together.

I have never had a "never again" moment but can visualize them quite clearly. For me they don't entail hardship or bugs or long days.

For me it would be doing something dangerous or stupid. Like battling big waves because I need to get out on time or feel peer pressure to perform beyond my comfort level.

The other situation I could foresee would be going with the wrong person or group. IMO that could ruin a trip far quicker than almost anything else. So far I have been very fortunate in that regard as well and have only had positive results. 

I have always said that if our third trip (1974:  Moose/Knife/Eddy) had been our first, I never would have gone again.  It was a six day trip and it rained steadily for almost all of the first five days and nights.  Not hard rain, sometimes just drizzle, but back in those days we didn't have the kind of tent and rain gear we have now.  We were wet and cold.

The worst part of that trip is that I pulled a muscle in my shoulder/neck pushing the canoe off at the landing at Moose Lake at the beginning of the trip.  My neck was in spasm the entire trip!  It was very painful, and of course the cold, damp weather didn't help one bit. 

By the fifth night my sleeping bag was so wet that I slept on the floor of the tent wrapped in a space blanket, and I cried.  That was the "never again" time.  The next morning--our last one, of course!--the sun came out and we ended our trip in the sunshine.

The only fond memory of that trip is that we stopped at the Isle of Pines and had a root beer with Dorothy Molter.  This is the only photo I took.  Surely if I could do that NOW I would have taken hundreds!! 

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TomT wrote on Oct 31^st, 2013 at 10:58pm:

The last 2 I've calmed down and know what to expect. I'm looking to start doing group trips again but I know I will always go solo if I have to.

When soloing, I think the trick for me was learning to ease  the pace enough that I could keep exploring every day, and not have to spend a day sitting in camp cause I needed to recover after a hard day.

My "never again" has to do with fall trips. They can be fantastic but easily turn the other way. We had two hours of sun mid-week but otherwise rain and temps dropping from the low 40'sF to near freezing with constant wind. Our last night we were setting up camp and I realized that we were all suffering from hypothermia. We fashioned a wall tent from the tarps and used the lantern and stoves to revive ourselves. If the vehicle had been closer even I would have opted to go out early. I decided then that the MN cabin with a roof and wood stove is where I would spend my fall seasons.

Spartan2 wrote on Nov 1^st, 2013 at 12:38pm:

The only fond memory of that trip is that we stopped at the Isle of Pines and had a root beer with Dorothy Molter.

sorry about the rest of the trip (paddling with a neck spasm. ouch!) but that photo really is special  :thumbup

Marten, I'm with you on the fall trips, which is half of one 'never again' - too much cold and rain....the other being the US side.  Even in September, we ran into way more people than I usually do in peak season on most Q trips.  Not quite enough wilderness for my taste. 'Course there's never anything certain about weather.  It was 47 degress in Ely on July 27th in the afternoon when I got there this year.

Another is certain tripping companions....I'm sure we've all had someone that won't get an invite back.  One guy wouldn't shut up...took him three days to run outta stuff to say...then he went into loop mode and we kept hearing the same stuff over and over.  I think there was another thread earlier in the year about that topic. 

pd

I still love October trips, despite having been hit with some wet and cold weeks. The silence and the solitude are simply beyond compare. It is like an "Last human in the world" experience, the trails and campsites are there, but there is not a footprint to be found.

My "never again" moment was on my trip in April of 2012, when I woke to 18" of snow and a viscous wind out of the north. Nearly flipped on Argo in the waves, the portage to Crooked took close to three hours. Standing in the snow on the north shore of crooked, the wind in the trees, waves in the bay, something brushed my cheek and I swatted it away- it was a little junco, it came back, landed on my arm and hopped across my shoulders and huddled for a minute or two against my neck before fluttering off in the wind.

Never above freezing that whole day, 10 degrees that night on Wagosh (a night I had planned on being home).

My tent in the morning.

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WOW! - that's what I'm saying- my suffering doesn't compare

We always take late fall, October trips.  Two years ago we went out Knife, thru Ottertrack and back thru Hanson to the South Arm and out thru Birch.  We had a sunny evening and then cold and a couple of inches of snow.  We were heading out for our last canoe day back and crossed the short portage to Sucker where we were greeting with three foot waves and gale force winds.  We decided to head around to Prairie Portage and try to follow the protected shoreline the route back.  It took twice our normal time and I broke a paddle fighting the wind and waves.  I thought never again, but enclosed is a picture from this years trip.  Always enjoy the solitude and serenity of being the last ones in and out of canoe country.

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Joe_Schmeaux wrote on Oct 30^th, 2013 at 4:22pm:

db wrote on Oct 24th, 2013 at 10:21pm: ... About 30 years ago, as I paddled out at the end of a particularly challenging trip for me (at the time) using "never again, never again, never again" as cadence for every stroke of the paddle for miles 'n miles before the take-out....... I haven't missed a year since but for those few hours, you couldn't have paid me enough to do the same thing again. LOL!

My never again cadence was mostly due to weather and lack of preparedness. I now take warmer clothes and better food in August then we did that May.

My never again(s) were serious "I'm never doing a trip HERE again" type thoughts. I understood how sorely out of my eliminate and unprepared I was. My toes were numb for a solid week of that trip. The food sucked, jeans sucked.... Our reaction, hunkering down, was a mistake I can see more clearly with history.

Only wussies bring stoves and knit hats!
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I had made the vow of no more fall trips but a few years later schedules were such that we set up another fall trip in WCPP. It would be a week long base camp on Irvine Lake before the portages had been cut by the park. Five paddlers, two canoes, a small kayak and ample gear to stay warm and dry were flown in with an Otter floatplane. We settled into a site I had prepared a few months earlier. It was sheltered on all sides except a nice southern exposure. Instead of the expected warming rays of the sun all that came in was a cold wind all week long with each day getting darker and colder until we were again experiencing temps just above the freezing point. We had come prepared though and kept adding tarps to our system. When the last wall was added mid-week and we had our improvised wall tent built we had no view but could stay comfortable. One partner commented that he now knew why I was so explicit on what tarps each person should bring. We have not given in again but the lure of the fall woods will surely entice us again sometime.

I mentioned earlier that I thought a litter adversity made a trip special.
I don't disagree with people that say they don't actively seek "hard times" that eventually they'll find you but I still think that on some primitive subconscious level seasoned paddlers "enjoy" a little hardship now and then. ;)

Maybe I'm reading between the lines and projecting my inner McGyver, but everybody is still planning to trip again and having learned from the past will see what a "newbie" sees as a disaster, just another reason you brought the gear you did. ;D

A weather radio isn't a bad piece of gear to have late in the season. A day's fair warning of bad weather coming and you can make some adjustments to your trip plans.

I know this is a "never again" thread but just to throw in a little balance on the fall tripping......especially for someone who may of thought about it but now thinking twice.

I have done 1 October trip before. It was to Algonquin and a more glorious trip could not be imagined. The colors were out in full, Indian summer had its hold on the entire week and the superlatives of how special it can be would be redundant.

db wrote on Nov 4^th, 2013 at 7:26am:

I understood how sorely out of my eliminate and unprepared I was.

My eliminate?  ;D

I was serious. I just couldn't throw away the good with the bad. I will freely admit however if it's nasty and I'm still smiling knowing how miserable I could be for a mistake like element/eliminate, I do grin a bit more. I never go looking for challenges I don't have a little experience with on vacation though.

I use to experiment on the first trip when I did two a year but these days I only get the one. Weather and Ma Nature are always the biggest variables currently. Ain't nothen better than lucky.

I think knowing that it could be pretty bad late in the year makes the good days extra special. And sometimes successfully surviving some bad days adds to the memories.

There's a higher risk/reward to October trips. I like'm.

Quote:

A weather radio isn't a bad piece of gear to have late in the season.

For our September trips, we've started taking a small transistor radio, used only in the evening around supper time to learn the forecast for the next day. CBC (Atikokan), WTIP (Gunflint Lake) and NPR (Ely) are three local stations we've been able to pick up depending upon where in the park we are. (Unfortunately, the CBC Atikokan station switches to a feed from Winnipeg after ?5? PM, so it's not that useful for a local forecast)

A weather radio and sometimes a depth finder are the only gadgets I bring. It's nice to know what the low temps will be and the wind too.

I haven't decided if I like knowing what the weather will be...or if it is just as well to be blissfully ignorant.   :-?

i brought a radio back in June just to see what would it would pick up. good to know any change in wind direction
bonus: picked up am720 out of chicago and heard stanley cup game 2 from the north end of the park!

My wife got me a watch that tracks barometric pressure, has weather predictions, tracks elevation and has a compass.  It's quite handy for use in canoe country along with common weather tips like watching clouds and wind direction; face the wind and turn right 45 degrees and the low pressure is to your right to determine whether the weather system is coming or going.  East wind, rain is likely, north wind cold, south warm.  Also watch the cirrus clouds and for halos around the sun or moon.  It good to have a basic understanding of weather to help you plan your day or prepare hunker down.

starwatcher

Good idea and nice gift. Over to the right there under "Discover Wilderness" there's a link to "weather forecasting"  :thumbup