Warning: this is a RAMBLING question/issue.  Patience/persistence is required to slog through this.  Sorry, but I'm writing this after two G&Ts. 

I've canoed the wilderness for over 25 years.  Initially I and my buddy did destination trips.  In essence, we paddled for 2 days to get to our desired lake, made a nice camp, then stayed there for 3 or 4 days to fish (and occasionally taking day trips to other lakes).  After 4 days or so at the base camp, we paddled back out using the same route we took to get in. 

After awhile I got the itch to see more lakes.  So we started to do travel trips."  We'd make long loops that covered lots of lakes and portages and miles.  And in the WCPP we were flown into the far edge of the Park, then we'd paddle back to Red Lake for a pickup.  These were fun trips.  We saw a lot of country, and caught our share of fish. 

These travel trips involve "travel days" where we stow our rods and reels, and plan to cover 10 or so miles of water.  This was necessary, particularly when we have agreed to be at a take out point on a given time/date for a pickup. 

Here's my dilemna: during these travel days, (some would say, "forced marches") whether it was in the QP or in WCPP, we often passed over pristine fishing water that called out to me: WALLEYE!!  But in order to keep on schedule, we paddle on by.  It kills me!  I ask myself, "why am doing all this work (paddling/portaging) only to miss all this great fishing?"  But I also understand we have to make so many miles to get to where we need to be by a certain date. 

I'm retired.  I don't want deadlines.  I don't want to have to be somewhere at a given time.  I want to be able to mosey.  I want to be able to spend 2 hours or so fishing below a falls, or in a fishy narrows.  I want to spend a leisurely hour or two at a shore lunch.  If I see a 5-star site at noon, I want to be able to call it a day and set up camp!  I want to take "power naps" after lunch!  If this means I screw up our schedule, so be it!!  I want to be able to come out a day early, or two days after the exit date, depending on weather, fishing, or whatever. 

As it is, I don't find my current style of wilderness canoeing relaxing, or particularly rewarding.  Maybe I simply need to go back to my old destination camping approach, given that most of the people I canoe with have places to go and people to meet at a certain point in time. 

I do know I need to change what I'm doing!  I want my trips to be more relaxing.  And I want to spend more time fishing.

I also know I'm not cut out to be a solo tripper.  I need the camaraderie of friends.  So, what to do?  I've got to make a change.  Just don't know what that will look like.   

So, all you QJ'rs..... wade in!

puckster

Do you really get to see more lakes when you paddle from the in portage to the out portage like a mad man? Maybe you get to "see" them but not to know them.  I have opted for more time on the water with a fishing rod in my hand an less time on land with a pack on my back. So recently I've chosen larger lakes with lots of protected shoreline only a few portages in to spend the week on. The trips have been more relaxing and equally as enjoyable.

I used to pack away the fishing rods on travel days and paddle over prime waters to keep a predetermined schedule. No more. I no longer feel the need to rack up miles and portages. As I also enjoy traveling with others, and I have a job to return to, I do have to end the trip on a given date. That is a compromise I make.

Now I take shorter trips in terms of distance, but plan with options, meaning nearby lakes that can be accessed easily. This allows us to move at a relaxed pace. If the fishing is good, we give it an extra day, otherwise we move on. Look at the fringe areas of the parks. It is not necessary to go deep into the parks to find great fishing. I'll see parties entering or leaving, but not stopping on 'my' lake. Work smarter, not harder. 8-)

Puckster wrote on Jul 30^th, 2014 at 10:38pm:

Warning: this is a RAMBLING question/issue.  Patience/persistence is required to slog through this.  Sorry, but I'm writing this after two G&Ts.  I've canoed the wilderness for over 25 years.  Initially I and my buddy did destination trips.  In essence, we paddled for 2 days to get to our desired lake, made a nice camp, then stayed there for 3 or 4 days to fish (and occasionally taking day trips to other lakes).  After 4 days or so at the base camp, we paddled back out using the same route we took to get in.  After awhile I got the itch to see more lakes.  So we started to do travel trips."  We'd make long loops that covered lots of lakes and portages and miles.  And in the WCPP we were flown into the far edge of the Park, then we'd paddle back to Red Lake for a pickup.  These were fun trips.  We saw a lot of country, and caught our share of fish.  These travel trips involve "travel days" where we stow our rods and reels, and plan to cover 10 or so miles of water.  This was necessary, particularly when we have agreed to be at a take out point on a given time/date for a pickup.  Here's my dilemna: during these travel days, (some would say, "forced marches") whether it was in the QP or in WCPP, we often passed over pristine fishing water that called out to me: WALLEYE!!  But in order to keep on schedule, we paddle on by.  It kills me!  I ask myself, "why am doing all this work (paddling/portaging) only to miss all this great fishing?"  But I also understand we have to make so many miles to get to where we need to be by a certain date.  I'm retired.  I don't want deadlines.  I don't want to have to be somewhere at a given time.  I want to be able to mosey.  I want to be able to spend 2 hours or so fishing below a falls, or in a fishy narrows.  I want to spend a leisurely hour or two at a shore lunch.  If I see a 5-star site at noon, I want to be able to call it a day and set up camp!  I want to take "power naps" after lunch!  If this means I screw up our schedule, so be it!!  I want to be able to come out a day early, or two days after the exit date, depending on weather, fishing, or whatever.  As it is, I don't find my current style of wilderness canoeing relaxing, or particularly rewarding.  Maybe I simply need to go back to my old destination camping approach, given that most of the people I canoe with have places to go and people to meet at a certain point in time.  I do know I need to change what I'm doing!  I want my trips to be more relaxing.  And I want to spend more time fishing. I also know I'm not cut out to be a solo tripper.  I need the camaraderie of friends.  So, what to do?  I've got to make a change.  Just don't know what that will look like.    So, all you QJ'rs..... wade in! puckster

Ditto

The simple answer seems to be to take longer trips, more days not more miles. I really like to have a route that needs 20 days and take 30 days to do it. It is really nice to be able to stop and take time when ever you want.

Finding partners for this long of a trip is difficult so I would suggest having partners come and go during the trip. This spring in WCPP I had different paddling partners three weeks in a row. Most do not like over 10 days so if you do like long trips try it out. An advantage is that you get a re-supply each time  so the packs are lighter and fresh banter around the camp.

If you can find an air service that gives you credit for providing your own back-haul the cost are not that bad. Normally you pay for the empty plane leg but having two parties share the round trip cost helps a lot. If canoes do not have to be changed out it is even cheaper.

you are probably a hopeless case uless you can get yourself cloned.

the only way to do the kind of trips YOU want to do is do go solo - and you tried that and didn't like it. 

finding "the perfect partner" would work, but odds are way against that, since it would have to be someone else  of like mind, and retired so that there is no "schedule" to meet.  maybe you just need to work on being content to take the trips you do now - though I know people who are never content with anything they have or do - no cure for that.

maybe buy the kind of trip you want ?  you might want to explore this option.  There are a lot of outfitted guided trips up in Canada that you simply buy into.  Jim J did at least one and liked it.  Most of those trips allow for fishing time as well as camp time - spend time on internet looking for a trip that fits your criteria.

otherwise, you need to be the "trip leader" - the guy who sets the trip plan.  Plan for fishing time by having 2 or more extra days built in to your schedule (as many as you want).  That way, you can use that extra time whenever you want (assuming your partner is in synch) - stop and fish for a couple of hours, or stop early at that 5 star campsite, or stay a second day on Lake X,  using up part of that extra time.  For travel days, plan one long one short etc. that way you can hustle in to the interior, then take your time for a few days of short travel/more fishing, then do long/short on the way out.  don't have to stick to the itinerary - i.e. plan long/short/long/short to have an idea of the distance you can cover in X days, and take the short days whenever you want - don't actually layover on one of your layover days, just make 2 more short days out of it - still free form.  of course, you still have the problem of finding partners to go along with the kind of trip you set up.

thr problem with fishing along the way is that the best time for fishing is the best time for travelling - hate to waste those nice calm mornings fishing and then have to paddle in strong headwinds all the rest of the day. doing short days does give you some options there, but sooner or later, it comes down to packing away the poles and passing by those alluring fishing holes.

I feel as you do Puckster.
After years of wilderness trips under time restraints, I decided that when I retire I'll be able to "mosey" when I feel like it.

I know from my too early Spring trip, I can "go hard" if need be, but why do that unless you have a deadline to keep or want the physical challenge. Been there, done that.

You mention that being a solo paddler isn't for you? Just a thought, but being solo, free to "mosey" is much different than being solo with 
a schedule to keep and the work required to make that happen.

Maybe reconsider that solo thing for a short trip just moseying to see IF that changes your mind?

I think OS's advice is good too. Planning shorter routes with options for day trips is a great way to " work smarter, not harder".

I sympathize with your dilemma.  When I got back into tripping about 10 years ago I still had the same mind set I had when I was younger, namely to cover miles.  That was, in some ways, the point.  But now I travel with my wife and she made it clear early on that she was definitely not into busting her butt.  It took me a few years to come around to her way thinking and I'm glad I did.  We take long trips together, usually 3 weeks or more.  We don't base camp but neither do we  travel that far.  Our trip coming up next week for, example, will be 24 days on the water and we won't go much more than 100 - 110 kilometres, maybe 60, 70 miles.  That gives us the opportunity to travel, see wildlife, experience different lakes and campsites, which we love but at the same time to have plenty of layovers (generally a layover day for every travel day) so that she can read, nap and relax and I can fish to my heart's content (sometimes my wife will come with me to be my trolling motor.)  The trick, I think, is finding the right partner, someone who can commit to trips of reasonable length and who is in it for the same reasons you are - to take the time to relax, slow down, and connect to this astounding natural world that we have entered into.

Obviously your dealing with larger "issues" ;).......It is commonly called a mid life crisis. There are 2 basic solutions> acquiring the friend that sticks closer than a brother or the other route which includes a small red sports car and a blonde. I highly suggest the former.

So your dissatisfied by base camping and not happy traveling? Tough call. You sound like you might be bored. Couple of suggestions.......time for a change of locale. Maybe Maine or someplace out west? That could fire things up a bit. Or maybe you take a year or two off from canoeing and do something different? I'm strongly looking into a backpacking trip of up to a month in Washington state, variety is the spice of life certainly rings true IMO.

Or how about this? My Basswood lake solo trip a few years back was highly enhanced by a good long book (wild> Cheryl Strayed as per KF's suggestion). I spent many hours in a disorganized camp transfixed and entertained by a book I couldn't put down (some of my best friends are books  8-)).

So there you have it....and all free, no charge. If you want my company on an official capacity I am in town this weekend. I set up today and am free tonight for dinner.....my treat, you pay ;)

Puckster wrote on Jul 30^th, 2014 at 10:38pm:

.....we often passed over pristine fishing water that called out to me: WALLEYE!! -It kills me!-

i don't have  experience with long loops, the few trips i've been on have been destination trips and for that matter short (not by choice & this year only 5 days!) but can still relate in part. I don't want to be rushed, want to mosey, get to know the lake, every bay, point, drop, reef...seems by the last day i'm just getting settled in.
Ditto puckster, Mad_mat, jimmar, MP, OS....

I tend to like to cover ground, and generally go solo planning great big loops that cover ground and territory. However, since acquiring a Spot I know longer feel required to stick to any route or itinerary. I might plan a big loop, but if weather and whim says other wise (or fishing for that matter) I stay planted. On the last accompanied trip my brother and I planned an ambitious loop but instead landed on McIntyre and just stayed and played with the smallmouth. On my fall solo I paddled to Ted on the first day and just sat and explored a beautiful lake that I had to myself for four days. Weather and campsite were great, why move? Find a partner or two that is flexible and just let the whim and wind take you where you will. Remember you don't need to get anywhere, you're already there.

Quote:

Remember you don't need to get anywhere, you're already there.

That would make a great paddling T-shirt  :thumbup

For all you Harry Chapin fans.  I refer you to his song, Greyhound.  At the end of the song, "Getting off this dirty bus first time I understood, it's got to be the going there not the getting there that's good.

10 years ago, on the first day, my son and I would drive up to Beaverhouse and paddle into Jean Lake and base camp.  Jean is a beautiful lake and certainly held our attention for a week.  But as he pointed out, we were burning two days just to get to Jean Lake.  We now fish closer to the put in point.  I think once you get in 5 miles, the fishing is good.  Obviously, some spots are better than others.  On a large lake like Cirrus, you could spend a week fishing from your base camp.  If you want you could move from one campsite to another, but still stay on Cirrus.
Contact me next year, I may be on reduced work status.
Westwood

i like to basecamp, i dont like packing up/moving/unpacking. we push hard our first day to get into our lake of choice. i could spend my entire life fishing on the same lake and never get bored. im a creature of habit. i would rather know a lakes ever curve/bay/reef/rock than pass by a bunch of good stuff traveling.

on our way in, we troll a few spots, but then pass through a few lakes with the rods stowed away. easier travel that way.

we troll mainly for trout and jig for walleyes. open water trolling leads to less lost equipment. i dislike scraping bottom with my crankbaits because all it takes is one sharp rock and its gone.

When I retired my desire to do as much as I could faded a bit. Just not the same drive. Maybe no need to get away and forget work life??

I've been enjoying letting my tripping partners determine the type of trip I do.

If you haven't tried it, Oct trips can be different.  But don't expect too much as far as fishing. Days are shorter so distances traveled are too. More campfire time and star gazing. Bring some wine, better food, and be lazy. The park is pretty quiet so it's nice for solitude.

Thanks for all the good thoughts/ideas.  It's really on me to make sure my time/energy is spent the way I want it to!  I've got time to do figure it out.  I appreciate your ideas. 

puckster

I still don't think I understand. What I read is you would like to do base camp trips like you did before you talked partners into travel type trips. I started doing solo trips because I wanted to do longer trips than the group. Nice thing about that is I found could justify two trips a year that way. I get the camaraderie aspect. I get the mosey thing and the tripping, bushwhack thing yet don't need the camaraderie since I can get that at home. I like to take pictures. Sometimes I'll hang around and fish waiting for better light. There's no guilt for indulging yourself on a solo. Also no one to blame but yourself.

We'd always plan our trips together and they varied in scope each year. No one ever complained on the trip, they just mentioned their ideas for next year at the after party or the planning session. After my here's what could happen (be prepared) speech. I'd put it together with their desires in mind. That's what I got tired of doing for everyone. If someone else planned it with my needs and wants accounted for, I'd trip with them again anytime - knowing what I was in for as much as possible upfront.

It would take me three days to find the rhythm for each trip. My second of the year, my solo, took about three paddle strokes. Make the case for the kind of trip you want to do when you plan the next one. Give yourselves layover day trip options. Be flexible and the rhythm will find you.

Towards the end of my group trip period, we had three canoes with three wildly different preferred styles. We'd discuss our tentative plans for the next day around the campfire and make the final decision in the morning for a planned travel day. The only agreement was dinner was at 4 on whatever lake or whatever was decided. If we didn't know the lake, we'd assign sections to be checked for campsites and let's meet in this area - if that helps.

On my worst trip ever we were beat down most of the trip by mother nature and inexperience. I swore I'd never do that again with every paddle stroke on the way out thinking I'd never see that place again and have not missed a year since.

Mike, Mike.  You are worried about a great many things, but only one thing is needed and   (You need to Login or Register has chosen the better part.

FWIW, I think the real issue here is more existential than base camp v. travel camp and it is certainly no mid-life crisis (whatever that means).  But, everybody hates advice - even when they ask for it - but here's mine FWIW.

Expectations are only planned disappointments.

Once I gave up on the rigorous trip planning, pouring over maps for months, preparing gear, and having expectations of myself, my friends, my family, water temps, campsite ratings, moon phase, fishing, etc.... did I start enjoying my trips.  Once I let the moment take care of itself and simply did the next thing did I cross the threshold.  It drove Pascanel nuts for a while but he eventually came around on his own.

Good luck pal.

What a wheelbarrow load of horse manure. What! No pouring over maps for months on end? No getting in shape for what lies ahead? No goals? Can you say BORING.......

I trip on occasion with exactly the sort. We would dawdle all day at everything if I didn't crack the whip (let's go!).

In all seriousness there is some real wisdom in what PJ is saying. Plan all you want but when things don't go the way you think they should the key is to be content with what is given you and staying flexible in your thinking (expectation level). My philosophy when tripping with others is let people do what they want. I have a fishing rod, a boat and some water.......I'm easily amused.

And......of course it's a mid life crisis. Everybody with a smidgen of grey has them.....sometimes 2 or 3 times a day.

Repeat after me, "Hi, I'm Puckster, I can change, if I have to, I guess. Keep your stick on the ice."  8-)

Since we're quoting Red: "If you can't stay young, you can at least stay immature."

Being in charge of a trip is always more work than going on a trip.  It is similar to going to a party or giving a party.  Once you are the person in charge, you have to make decisions and you have to be concerned about how your guests are going to respond to your efforts.  If you go solo you don't have be concerned about anyone's feeling.  Puckster your problem is that you need someone to plan the trip so you can be a guest.  It's a small example, but when my son my younger I was in the back of the canoe.  Now I am in the front of the canoe and all I have to do is fish and paddle.  If you are willing to give up control, the experience becomes more enjoyable.  In essence, you become the guest.

Kerry wrote on Aug 3^rd, 2014 at 4:44am:

Since we're quoting Red: "If you can't stay young, you can at least stay immature."

Who the heck is red?
Why not quote some real philosophers?

  (You need to Login or Register

This touches the depths of my soul for are we not all lucha libradores wearing stretchy pants ... in our rooms of solitude?

Kerry wrote on Aug 3^rd, 2014 at 1:43pm:

This touches the depths of my soul for are we not all lucha libradores wearing stretchy pants ... in our rooms of solitude?

Ya, but some of us like to keep those kind of thoughts to ourselves, ya know what I'm saying. ;) ;D ;D

Oops, I didn't mean to push send.

In 2012 I was going to do a 14 day paddle in fly out trip with a couple guys. When I saw how much it cost to fly out I'm thinking of how fun it would be to paddle out solo. Then I got to thinking the plane would be flying in empty and what an opportunity for possibly a friend to come in reasonably. No one could do it, until a guy I'd never met bit on the opportunity. It ended up being 14 days keeping up with two guys in a tandem with me in my Encounter with my 70 lbs dog. Day 15 Mark flys in with a brand new Prizm and some thick juicy steaks. He was  a strong paddler himself and I found myself doing the whole 26 days fighting to keep up with others. Note: Since my dogs passing I now realize how much extra work it was bringing her... It was well worth it! Later the same year I did a solo 40 days with my dog. We did almost the whole BWCA, but if you figured out miles Average per day it wasn't much. I think the WCPP has no match so I loved that trip for all the good reasons. But my forty days in the BW was the most enjoyable time I ever had with no schedules accept to get to a couple resupplies. I didn't do well fishing for a stupid reason. But paddling with my dog on what would be her last trip was so relaxing and fulfilling. I met so many awesome people and saw a lot of awesome country. Now the real test will be 2015... No dog... Just me.... I plan to do something good again. Two years of limited paddling is driving me up a wall. As per the original post I too have found tripping partners to be in extremes. It's either balls to the walls or fish fish fish... Or even worse, "I want to go home early because I miss my I Pod" folks. The nice thing about the BW is you see a lot of people even in the shoulder seasons and is enough interaction for me where I can do the solo thing. Puckster, I was talking to a guy who says he's going with (I believe it is anyway) you. He would be interesting to paddle with. Enjoy!

went back and read the original post a few times; seems the big problem is being tied into a certain pickup date / time? if i'm understanding this correctly; why not take a sat phone (yes i can hear the cringes and moans) and arrange a several day window with the outfitter picking you up? once you're a day away make the call; see when they can get you. seems it would give the desired latitude in departure dates. 

The Gimp of 01 wrote on Aug 11^th, 2014 at 7:16pm:

went back and read the original post a few times; seems the big problem is being tied into a certain pickup date / time? if i'm understanding this correctly; why not take a sat phone (yes i can hear the cringes and moans) and arrange a several day window with the outfitter picking you up? once you're a day away make the call; see when they can get you. seems it would give the desired latitude in departure dates.

I agree and did exactly that with a group of five this June in WCPP. We were using the newly opened Minjim route from Royd Lake to Douglas Lake. The fishermen were going to cry if we did not take a layover day for the Walleyes on Joey Lake. It was agreed to take the day off and suffer a little to make up for the lost time. The fishing was great but the pay-back more than we could handle. When it became obvious that meeting our scheduled pick-up time and place meant a three day death march  :'( I called a meeting. It was agreed that getting back home at 10:00am instead of 3:00am was OK so I called Red Lake outfitters. We changed out pick-up spot and the time from morning to afternoon. We then went back to having fun.  :)

There are a number of places where you can set up camp and go out for day trip loops. There are such places close to take out points such as Quetico Lake and Pickeral lake.  Start out assuming you will get there as if you were going to spend 2 or 3 nights there.  For those extra days, you can go out on day loops or just hang or leave the park early.  If during your week you go slow and you get there a day or two late, just eliminate the extra day or two at that last site.

Marten wrote on Aug 12^th, 2014 at 1:06pm:

The Gimp of 01 wrote on Aug 11th, 2014 at 7:16pm: went back and read the original post a few times; seems the big problem is being tied into a certain pickup date / time? if i'm understanding this correctly; why not take a sat phone (yes i can hear the cringes and moans) and arrange a several day window with the outfitter picking you up? once you're a day away make the call; see when they can get you. seems it would give the desired latitude in departure dates.  I agree and did exactly that with a group of five this June in WCPP. We were using the newly opened Minjim route from Royd Lake to Douglas Lake. The fishermen were going to cry if we did not take a layover day for the Walleyes on Joey Lake. It was agreed to take the day off and suffer a little to make up for the lost time. The fishing was great but the pay-back more than we could handle. When it became obvious that meeting our scheduled pick-up time and place meant a three day death march  :'( I called a meeting. It was agreed that getting back home at 10:00am instead of 3:00am was OK so I called Red Lake outfitters. We changed out pick-up spot and the time from morning to afternoon. We then went back to having fun.  :)

Best advice yet! 

Thanks.

Puckster