I had an "ah...hah" moment yesterday evening with regards to bear-ropes and my next food pack hanging efforts (coming up this Labor Day weekend for the Mudro entry).

For many of you, this will seem quite obvious and frankly, boring. But it may provide a chuckle for others so read on if you are in the latter group!

I struggled with my last food hanging episode on Lake Three while trying a "new system".  Up. Down. Branches snapping. Line twisting. Pulleys hanging up. Mosquitoes clouds. You name it. It happened.  This last attempt probably yielded a bag dangling at about 6 ft off the ground and my wife and I diving into our tent to escape the flying pests!

A bit of history:
Previously I was a one-pulley guy, struggling to get my family's food pack (usually the first day or two) up in the air and correctly hung at the right height distance. You all know that drill. Then I read a trip report that I think MT wrote about an excursion with KF that I finally got around to reading that described "a 2-pulley system" that was fabulously easy ( I may have that wrong but that is what I seem to remember :).

Anyway, 2 pulleys are hard to make work with a heavy food, at least the way I attempted it. One up above and one down below near the food bag.

Long story short:
I re-discovered the suggestions for bear ropes and hanging packs on this site. THE SECRET: 3 Pulleys in a triangle --- which is what MT was actually describing and not what I misunderstood.

Success:
I've immediately reconfigured my ropes and pulleys and tried it out at home. Works great. If anyone has another solution that they like, I would also like to read about it (especially if you have diagrams :) for us visual learners. ;)

3 Pulleys is the way to go.
I found some good pics online and some QJers gave some good info as well.

I have my rig set up so I can either hang from single point ( over a limb) or from 2 points (between 2 trees). I beleive Azalea gave the tip to keep the pack closer to one tree so you don't get that sagging effect over a long distance.

Sometimes you can get some twisting issues around the pulley that hooks to pack. I fixed that problem by running the line thru a foot of clear 3/8 plastic tubing that sits right above it.

I also switched to this item for my ropes, even the haul rope. I wrapped my 2 hanging lines and haul rope/ pulley rig around 1/2" pvc pipe and use it to pull this thin but incredibly strong line.

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This line doesn't absorb water, has little stretch and really lightens your bear hanging kit.

solotripper,

Good advice on the pvc and line twist issues. I've had similar problems and that gives me a good option to try out.

It helps to rig the 2 upper pulleys parallel (prevent them from rotating independantly one from another).  This way you can pull the packs up to where the bottom pulley makes contact with the top.  Without such, the friction between the ropes is enough to lock up the assembly.

-YB

Quote:

I beleive Azalea gave the tip to keep the pack closer to one tree so you don't get that sagging effect over a long distance.

Not exactly. The traditional system has a horizontal rope to which a vertical rope is attached and is pulled up using pulleys.  The problem is the horizontal rope is opposing the upward force of the pack.  This cause the horizontal rope to sag and also makes pulling up the pack more difficult because there is "give" in what you are pulling against.

The solution is to JUST have a horizontal line with the pack attached to the center of it.  Have enough rope so when slack, the horizontal line sags to the ground.  To raise your pack, use your pulley system to take the slack out of the horizontal rope.  In this system, the force your are exerting is against opposing the point where the rope is attached to the tree.  With a decently size tree, there is no give in that.

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AZ,
That was/is a good link. I did poor job of explaining it.
It gives you two alternatives and I've used both and the old standby of just tossing rope over a large single limb.

Rig your set-up right and you can use what you have close to camp rather than searching for a single anchoring point.

YB makes a good point too.

I love the strong nearly non-stretching cord that ST recommends (and use it as the rope my pulley hangs from). However, when new and clean it is perhaps the most tangle prone cord invented by man short of monofilament. when the cord is new and the bugs are out......

Everyone has their favorite method. I have a little bag 2 inches by 3 inches with about 50 ft of string tied to it.  I put a rock in the bag and throw it over the limb.  Then tie it to the line that will go between the trees and pull it over.
I use Ronstan 20 blocks
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They have very good bearings and the line will siphon out from its own weight so tie a stick to the line about 15 ft from the end. 
I use a small line like Solotripper to go through the pulley system. My line is smaller than Solotrippers and not near as strong but will easily lift my 190Lb off the ground. He uses a piece of PVC pipe to protect his hands I use leather gloves.  I suggest you use some thing because rope burns hurt.
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MagicPadddler

MP, thanks for the link to the Ronstons. Looking into those for future upgrades. Don't want to admit what I'm using now but I'm tempting fate. I use whatever thick blowdown is nearby to wind  the rope when I tug. I have thought about something more systematic so that I'm not searching for that impossible-to-find branch for the task (which happens!).

Azalea, wow. Nice set - up. I can't explain to everyone on this thread how many nights I laid awake (in my tent AND at home!) trying to puzzle this out in my mind...literally 'drawing' myself various mental pictures. I even tried to unsuccessfully diagram some ideas in my camp journal but was about a step or two away from hitting any of these ideas. Great stuff. Thanks everyone. Any other suggestions or tweaks are more than welcome.

Solus wrote on Aug 25^th, 2014 at 11:24pm:

I love the strong nearly non-stretching cord that ST recommends (and use it as the rope my pulley hangs from). However, when new and clean it is perhaps the most tangle prone cord invented by man short of monofilament. when the cord is new and the bugs are out......

  ;D ;D ;D I found that out on my spring trip. The more I used it, the better "hand" it developed though, so it's still great stuff.
I found that wrapping it around something ( 1/2" pvc pipe etc) then walking it out full length and rewind a few times seemed to make it less tangle prone.

I bought some of the reflective cord for use on my Dry-Fly. All in all a good item. :thumbup

MP, is right. Either use something to wrap it around or wear a pair of leather gloves. That thin cord will hurt you IF you let it. :'(

4 years ago we had a similar foodpack hanging episode....

the foodpack discussion here helped a lot:
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db was good enough to post a couple videos on this:
Sending the pack up:
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Then, letting it down again:
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zski, thanks for the links to previous thread. Question for you and anyone really: what is recommend or used for a "small self-lubricating sailing pulleys " that is inexpensive. Ronsons as MP uses look like the cadillacs to use but they can be a bit pricey (for me only :). What other brands are worth it (will hold up)?

Nanda, I ended up getting 3 of these
  (You need to Login or Register  (pretty sure that's the one) was watching and they went on sale   tried to post a picture but couldn't get past a "too large" error. The blocks MP uses do look real nice though.

zski,

Thanks. I clicked the link but the Defender website couldn't locate the page. I went to   (You need to Login or Register to look at the allen and lewmar brand blocks. Is that what you were looking at too?

Go to the web site in Nanda’s post and in the upper right corner of the page use the search to search for
20 mm block
And you will get several suitable blocks.

I bought mine at a sailing shop too.
About $15 a piece except for the 3rd one which has a Becket which allows you to attach a Caribiner to clip pack hauling loop too.

Having a bearing of some type makes all the difference as well. Some cheap ''clothes line pulleys'' are just metal wheels on a metal shaft.
Under a heavy food pack load the friction is noticable.
With a good pulley system you don't need to "haul' your pack up hand over hand, you just walk the line out and it's effortless, even a little kid could do it. ;)

Sorry the link in my last post didn't work. i ended up with 3 of these: [Ronstan 20 mm Series 20 Ball Bearing Block, Item #615283] they were on sale at the time for around $10. definitely better to have the bottom one with a becket (maybe something like Item #614281)

Now what are you going to use for line.  The line that goes between trees needs to be stronger than the line that runs over the pullies.  I have never been concerned with stretch in a hanging kit because the tree limbs will bend under the weight making the line stretch negligible.

Quote:

The line that goes between trees needs to be stronger than the line that runs over the pullies.

MP,
I'm not sure I understand why that needs to be?
IF all lines will hold more than your lifting I can't see a problem unless your putting far more load on the system than you need to lift the pack.
Those Cooke Custom lines are rated 450# and I retrofitted my rig to use them everywhere.

Am I asking for trouble?

The line between the trees must support your food and it also tries to pull the 2 trees together.  It gets into trig to figure out how much tension will be on your lines but most calculators will do the work for you.  Estimate the angle between the 2 anchor points and the line form the anchor point to the point on the rope where the food is hanging.  It will probably be between 30° and 45°.  The 30° will put the most stress on the tree to tree line so I will use it as an example. ( (Weight of pack)/ Sin(angle)/ number of lines).  Lets say your food weighs 1LB (I know that is light but it is easy to scale to your actual food pack) and the angle is 30°.  1lb/Sin(30°)= 1/(.5)/(2) = 1LB.  So the Tree to tree rope must have a working load of your food pack weight.  So where do you find working load for a particular rope when the only list the breaking strength.  In rigging classes I have taken they say breaking strength should be 7 times working strength.  So to lift your 1 Lb food pack the tree to tree rope should have a breaking strength of at least 7 LB.**I have also seen experienced riggers use a safety factor of 5 but your ropes will wear out faster( probably only raise and lower your food pack 1000 times).
For the rope that goes over the pulleys it depends on the number of pulleys and if you use a becket.  Count the number of ropes coming down to the food pack.  Each of these ropes will share the load of your food pack. If you have a single pulley whit a becket hanging from the tree to tree line and a single pulley at the food pack you will have 2 ropes coming to the food pack. Stress on rope = Weight of pack /number of lines = 1 LB/2 lines = ½ pack weight. This line should have the same working load to breaking strength as above.  So to lift your 1 LB food pack the pulley rope needs a breaking strength of 3.5LB.

And to think twenty years ago we threw a line over a limb and just yanked the food pack up as best we could with no pulleys. I didn't know there would be math on the test!!  :o :P :)

...shopping for blocks...and studying trig....on this next trip  :D

MP,
Thanks for that detailed explanation.
I knew you had to consider what you detailed  and that multiple pulleys/ropes share the load of pack. I didn't know how to figure the working load or margin of breaking strength, so thanks for that.

However I figured becasue that Cooke Custom line is rated a 450# which is far more than most lines people tend to use for their bear rig, I figure with a 3 pulley rig I'd be hard pressed to have a food pack so heavy I'd be in trouble? Multiple packs maybe.

When I bought those sailing blocks/becket, I mentioned to guy what they were for and the rope I was going to use. He showed me some sailing rope of similar size that was rated close to a 1000#.
I didn't ask how much, but with that line and some good blocks you could hang your pack and your hammock/canoe with room to spare. ;) ;D ;D

My thanks as well MP! I appreciate your advice on the blocks as I know absolutely nothing about sailing. Loved the calculations on rope loads (was that a 30-60-90 triangle you were describing ? :)) Anyway, can't wait to get the blocks and proper rope. My wife and I have typically struggled to get that first or 2nd night food pack up in the trees and these tips will make this much easier. Thanks again -- and to ST and zski and everyone who contributed. Love these threads (like going back to school :))

MuleLars wrote on Aug 29^th, 2014 at 12:56am:

And to think twenty years ago we threw a line over a limb and just yanked the food pack up as best we could with no pulleys. I didn't know there would be math on the test!!  :o :P :)

;D Dude! Math is what makes the world go 'round!

Ahhh, my favorite topic. 30 yrs ago I bought 3 single sailing pulleys at the over-priced sailing shop downtown for $7 a pop and some rope that looked about right from Menard's. It has served me well as I'm still using the same set-up except for the throw bag that takes a beating.

Cast pulleys might even be OK for all I know. I do know that pulleys are made for the size of rope they will be used with. My rope may be oversized but it's easy to grab and doesn't get caught (lodge) into the trees plus it's strong enough to get my snowblower up and down from the garage loft twice a year.

Math is cool!

Magicpaddler wrote on Aug 28^th, 2014 at 8:18pm:

I have never been concerned with stretch in a hanging kit because the tree limbs will bend under the weight making the line stretch negligible.

The limbs or once branches - now nubs are only for throwing the rock bag 'n line over. The trunk is what bears the weight. The branches (or what's left of branches) aren't important once the rope is up there. Go around the tree trunk. The trunk holds the weight. And a little slack ain't a bad thing the way trees sway in the wind.

db wrote on Aug 30^th, 2014 at 7:14am:

Magicpaddler wrote on Aug 28th, 2014 at 8:18pm: I have never been concerned with stretch in a hanging kit because the tree limbs will bend under the weight making the line stretch negligible. The limbs or once branches - now nubs are only for throwing the rock bag 'n line over. The trunk is what bears the weight. The branches (or what's left of branches) aren't important once the rope is up there. Go around the tree trunk. The trunk holds the weight. And a little slack ain't a bad thing the way trees sway in the wind.

A little slack is good for the reason you mentioned, but too much stretch from a poor choice in line can be a real bad thing.

I found that out the hard way one year when I bought a big spool of Paracord at a garage sale and decided that #550 7 strand military spec cord would be the perfect bear bag rope.

Every survivalist/outdoor kit makes paracord a must have item for its versatility.

What I failed to take into account is that it construction and it's original purpose was to absorb the impact of a parachute opening under load. It stretches far more than you might think under a heavy load and especially when wet.

I hung a pack midway between the only two trees suitable for support.
Hauled pack up so it was at least 20' high and next morning after a heavy rain, the paracord had stretched to a point that I could reach up and grab the bag easily.

You want your "give/slack" in the way you hang the pack, not by your choice of hanging rope.
Paracord is great stuff, but not for food pack hanging.

I use 1/8" dacron kite line - non-stretch and not prone to tangle at all (as you might guess from its intended use) - google for kite supplies - forgot where i got mine - its 500# test (not a kernmantle construction like that yellow line in the link or paracord.)

I only use one cheap single wheel pulley on top, run the line down to a rescue pulley that is just a wheel over a biner (I use the cheap 99cent mini-biners) -

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that clips to the pack with a biner, and the rope back up top thru another mini-biner - the cheap mini biners are plenty strong enough for me with the load distributed the way it is.  Once I have tension on the pack, the line stays on that orange wheel just fine.

that's my ultralight version - biners and pulley and two 50' lengths for the hanging line to two trees, one 50' hoisting line, and a thin heaving line all fit in a quart size ziplock bag - total weight is 11.4 ounces.  I can hoist food for two for 14 days with this rig, but that's at an average of 1.3# per person/day so lighter than most food packs would be.


this is the same concept as the "Z Pulley" rescue for canoes - learn one and you know the other

Ahhh. Love details.

I just weighted mine, 17.2. Candy is really heavy! ;) I kinda wonder what it all weighs wet though. (I wish I'd have weighed my tent after packing up in the rain.)

Anyway, I also have 2, 50' lengths for the hang and it will still fit in a quart size bag.

DB you got me beat.  My lift kit dry weight is 18.7 Oz.  as pictured in page one of this thread. That is with a 4 to 1 mechanical advantage (ya I know that is over kill).
All of the lines are stretchy nylon including the tree to tree line which is paracord.  I almost never get the line to come up tight against the trunk.  It almost always gets caught on limbs. So the line crosses several springy limbs before being ties off. I pull the line tight not leaving slack in case the wind blows.  Now I know I am doing it all wrong but my pack does not settle overnight even when it rains.

It looks like you have at least twice as much rope as I do. Do you use it all?  Sometimes, at 50', my tree rope isn't long enough so I end up using the throw rope as an extension on the side that's short. It's 550 cord.

I try to avoid the springy branches. They complicate the throw/hang for me. I'll take a foot long vestige of a broken branch any day, especially when it's on the windward side of the tree at 15'. Less opportunity for tangles and looping the throw rope around a branch again.

db wrote on Sep 4^th, 2014 at 5:41am:

It looks like you have at least twice as much rope as I do. Do you use it all?  Sometimes, at 50', my tree rope isn't long enough so I end up using the throw rope as an extension on the side that's short. It's 550 cord. I try to avoid the springy branches. They complicate the throw/hang for me. I'll take a foot long vestige of a broken branch any day, especially when it's on the windward side of the tree at 15'. Less opportunity for tangles and looping the throw rope around a branch again.

Its not that I like springy branches they just get in my way.
I have used all of the rope a couple of times but if I did not have that much rope there was probably another location that would have worked requiring less rope.  Having a 4 to 1 mechanical advantage requires more line to go over the pulleys making a tangle more likely.

My food bag hang last weekend:

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Good news is that my daughter who is 9 took the line and basically walked this load back and then I helped her tie it off.

3/16in poly cord with brass sheave/stainless block from local hardware store. Not the best set up bit it worked. :) Thanks everyone!

Congrats Nanda. Lots of ways to do things. Make it your own.  :thumbup

I gotta ask, what might you do differently next time and how many pounds were you hanging? At first glance it looked like a person up there.  ;D

Quote:

Congrats Nanda. Lots of ways to do things.

That's a point that should be kept in mind when we discuss just about anything here.

There is more than one way too do just about anything and if it works for you and your style of tripping, then that's good enough.

Sometimes are methods are really off base but half the fun is tweaking things in the off season in the hope we get it just right. ;) ;D ;D

DB,

I could say that it was a lot of weight but it wasn't --- I'd guess it was between 35 and 40 pounds between about 3 bags. I might be underestimating but I think I'm close.

What to do differently? Hmmm. Better pulleys would help I think (I'm watching sales now for the sailboat pulleys I want).

I also had to improvise a "web sling" that I'm back home now and perfecting. Everytime I've hoisted a dry bag of food I've prayed silently that the backpack straps wouldn't tear out of the bag!

This time around, I brought 1" webbing along that had pre-fabbed loops stiched in. With a bit of ingenuity, I configured two loops that grabbed the blue dry bag at each end and was able to be cinched on top with a carabiner to the pulley.

I think that those are two things to work from my end: Pulleys and Web sling.

I like Azalea's method too with the two double sheave blocks. I have enough rope to accomplish that and it would make the rig weigh a bit less. I win on that count as I threw my rope-n-pulley configuration on a scale tonight and top out at about 29 ounces. I have to stop feeding that set-up!  ;D

HighnDry wrote on Sep 6^th, 2014 at 3:39am:

DB, I like Azalea's method too with the two double sheave blocks. I have enough rope to accomplish that and it would make the rig weigh a bit less. I win on that count as I threw my rope-n-pulley configuration on a scale tonight and top out at about 29 ounces. I have to stop feeding that set-up!  ;D

As I get older the more I look at what my pack and everything that goes in it weighs.

I agree MP....and appreciate your and everyone else advice on these things. I have one Harken 20mm micro block already for about 8 bucks (probably could have found it cheaper but it was the best deal I could find at the moment). I think it's about a 1/2oz in weight versus the hardware store pulleys that are about 3.5 to 4 oz. It all adds up! Looking for others now. Either Harken or Ronstan. I might start a new thread on just "lightweight" gear because I've found gerber axes to silynyon tarps that have dropped 10s of pounds off of my portage pack....and I'm still looking   :D

"I also had to improvise a "web sling" that I'm back home now and perfecting. Everytime I've hoisted a dry bag of food I've prayed silently that the backpack straps wouldn't tear out of the bag!"

I just keep one extra piece of rope in my kit - just 1/8' paracord type of stuff, maybe 15' long?  I just wrap that around the food bag (vertically) maybe 3 or 4 times, and clip to that, not to the shoulder straps or grab loop.

I rigged up a length of rope that is attached to both of my food packs side grab loops and also the  top grab loop.

It's rigged so all are independent of each other.

I'm going to add this photo and hope it works.

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I did a 5 sailing block/pulley system because these were ones I had and I thought "what the heck, let's give it a shot". It took a bit of untangling and laying out but this is the system I used on Wood Lake in the BWCA on the 18th (last month).

The only adaptation I've since added is that the bottom 2 pulleys are now a double-sheave harken micro 22mm which works much better. Total weight is still up there at 23oz but I have a huge amount of 3/16" cord on each. Probably 125ft on the yellow bottom cord at least.

Still tinkering but it's getting better....

---

How effective is all this?   Light weight and mechanical advantage are great , but does it keep the bears and rodents from getting into your food pack ? What about "problem bears" and mice?  Those  bears in the Knife Lake region seam to look for these "piñatas" and have a pretty good system for bringing them down.   Are the barrel people and hiders smokin' dope and just really lucky?  Should I ask about this at the true confessions topic/site?  Do you all go through all this work every night ...  or just when that little voice in your head tells you that you better  ?  Ever have any complete failures at thwarting Yogi and Booboo? How many times have you all had to come" runnin and screamin" out of the tent while throwing rocks or swinging a paddle ? ;) :-? :-/

I hang a barrel now but was testing this with a backpack I had on the trip. The rest is fair game for this or another thread  :)

knafelc wrote on Oct 2^nd, 2014 at 11:08pm:

How effective is all this?

I talked to a yogi one night just to let him know I was there. I came back to camp because I saw a bear heading straight for it when returning from an evening paddle. The pack was hung and the lights came out and after a few adult beverages were consumed. I soon forgot all about him but I did keep the fire going until the lights subsided. Ain't no way I'd have hidden that night. Not a chance. Not sure what I'd have done if I couldn't easily hang.

Another time I chased a bear out of camp at least three times before I started to pack up and leave. He'd be in camp every time I'd return from the canoe so I'd chase him out again. One time he ran directly under my food pack, only to stop at my tackle box. He ran off with my bear (spare) paddle once Which was funny in more ways than one. On another effort, he got a big surprise when he bit into my gas bottle.

I paddled to the nearest land to try and plug the holes in the bottle and have breakfast. The darn thing swam to where I was so I grabbed a few rocks to throw at him as I began paddling to another site far far away. I expect he was following the moose and calf he argued with earlier but I had had enough.

Ideally, I'll hang as close to the fireplace as possible. If hiding means hiking 50 yards into the woods at night, I'd never hide. That would make the decision to have one more rum and cocoa a PITA.

Seeing a bear on a trip wasn't unusual for me in the 90's. Last one I saw was in 2003 and my last trip was the first in a while I remember seeing what I assume to be bear scat. It was reasonably fresh and full of maggots.

If you wanted to hide something from a good nose near the ground, where might you hide it? Hey wait a minute … does that mean I hide in plain sight? :o

I do it because it's more convenient than hiding and I like a good night's sleep. It's only the last night sometimes that I don't hang. The hiding spot is within hearing distance of the tent. I can't believe anyone actually hides as Cliff once recommended. That's too much work and frankly, I could easily put an eye out, break a leg or have a heart attack walking in the woods at night with a pack on my back.  ;D

I just use a single pulley (a petzl climbing pulley) attached to the no stretch 400lb test line that ST mentioned. I run a thicker cord through the pulley and to the pack. I only trip solo or occasionally with one companion so there isn't that much weight to haul up; no need to sort the tangle of multiple pulleys and lines. I keep the food in a sealine PVC dry bag. Simple and easy.

The last bear we saw in Quetico was the resident beach bear on Beaverhouse in 1993.  She got my peanut butter but that was it - broad daylight so the food pack was on the ground and she moseyed in while we were packing like; "Hey guys, don't mind me".  Honestly, with the blue barrel and a locked lid we haven't hung a food pack in years.

Solus wrote on Oct 3^rd, 2014 at 3:18pm:

I just use a single pulley (a petzl climbing pulley) attached to the no stretch 400lb test line that ST mentioned. I run a thicker cord through the pulley and to the pack. I only trip solo or occasionally with one companion so there isn't that much weight to haul up; no need to sort the tangle of multiple pulleys and lines. I keep the food in a sealine PVC dry bag. Simple and easy.

Solus,

I like the 'economy' of your system! What is the 400lb test line that ST and you use? Most importantly: where can you get it? :)

Nanda

db wrote on Oct 3^rd, 2014 at 6:55am:

knafelc wrote on Oct 2nd, 2014 at 11:08pm: How effective is all this? I talked to a yogi one night just to let him know I was there. I came back to camp because I saw a bear heading straight for it when returning from an evening paddle. The pack was hung and the lights came out and after a few adult beverages were consumed. I soon forgot all about him but I did keep the fire going until the lights subsided. Ain't no way I'd have hidden that night. Not a chance. Not sure what I'd have done if I couldn't easily hang. Another time I chased a bear out of camp at least three times before I started to pack up and leave. He'd be in camp every time I'd return from the canoe so I'd chase him out again. One time he ran directly under my food pack, only to stop at my tackle box. He ran off with my bear (spare) paddle once Which was funny in more ways than one. On another effort, he got a big surprise when he bit into my gas bottle. I paddled to the nearest land to try and plug the holes in the bottle and have breakfast. The darn thing swam to where I was so I grabbed a few rocks to throw at him as I began paddling to another site far far away. I expect he was following the moose and calf he argued with earlier but I had had enough. Ideally, I'll hang as close to the fireplace as possible. If hiding means hiking 50 yards into the woods at night, I'd never hide. That would make the decision to have one more rum and cocoa a PITA. Seeing a bear on a trip wasn't unusual for me in the 90's. Last one I saw was in 2003 and my last trip was the first in a while I remember seeing what I assume to be bear scat. It was reasonably fresh and full of maggots. If you wanted to hide something from a good nose near the ground, where might you hide it? Hey wait a minute … does that mean I hide in plain sight? :o I do it because it's more convenient than hiding and I like a good night's sleep. It's only the last night sometimes that I don't hang. The hiding spot is within hearing distance of the tent. I can't believe anyone actually hides as Cliff once recommended. That's too much work and frankly, I could easily put an eye out, break a leg or have a heart attack walking in the woods at night with a pack on my back.  ;D

DB,

Great story. Glad you are 'here' to relate it! Hope to never have those experiences but good to know what to do with persistent bears. I carry the bear spray that REI sells...probably more as a psychological comfort than effective...but that's another thread entirely to start for this upcoming winter. FWIW, I like the pulley system that you and others have described for the sheer engineering aspects of it....and the fact that it makes the hauling an enjoyable experience. I have no problem with others though who prefer to keep their kit closer to them and not go through the same process and hassle. To each his or her own :)

Nanda- The cord came with my Cooke Custom Sewing tarp. But Dan sells it on his web site.   (You need to Login or Register

Tends to tangle easy until you get it dirty.

It is. I was much more afraid of the cow with calf. She gave me a look I'll never forget. It's just that it played out over three hours and few would believe even the smallest parts of it. I had that bear almost climbing a tree at one point.

So now I'm thinking….

When the bear took my gas bottle, I was yelling and running at him hoping to prevent him taking anything. (same with the paddle)  He took it instead of my juice bottle or tripod, ran to the edge of camp where there was sparse bushes or a little tree and turned so I could see him bite down on it. Pfffst. Arrrgh. Then he ran off for not much longer than usual.

If I ever took pepper spray, I might leave it sitting by the fireplace. Nothing has ever messed with my toothpaste and that's always been available.

Friend of mine use to leave his unwashed cocoa cup on the ground at night. We all thought the two little mouse turds that were in it in the first morning would stop that behavior but nooooo. Eh, at least we'd always know how much it rained.

Solus wrote on Oct 4^th, 2014 at 3:53am:

Nanda- The cord came with my Cooke Custom Sewing tarp. But Dan sells it on his web site.   (You need to Login or Register Tends to tangle easy until you get it dirty.

One thing to rememeber with that cord, is that if your going to use it for a haul rope ( I changed over from heavier but weaker line), is that you either need to wear a pair of leather gloves or use a stick to wrap cord around and pull it with.

I took 3 pieces of 1/2 pvc pipe about a foot long and drilled a hole thru and ran cord and tied off.
I use the pvc pipe to wrap my 3 cord around and to pull it as tight as possible when rigging lines.
You get that thin cord under load and barehanded or wrapped around your hand for leverage and you'll find out real fast that it's not only super strong/ non stretching but will chew your bareskin up like braided fish line. :'(

I aree ST- I haul with much thicker cord.

Solus wrote on Oct 4^th, 2014 at 3:53am:

Nanda- The cord came with my Cooke Custom Sewing tarp. But Dan sells it on his web site.   (You need to Login or Register Tends to tangle easy until you get it dirty.

Thanks Solus. Looks like great stuff. I'll check it out.