my brothers and i, during our usual christmas time get together were tossing ideas around for more fishing activities.

we talked about a possible ice trip to quetico.

we would need to bring things such as a large insulated style hub ice shelter, a big sled (or a few smaller ones), a shovel, a hand auger(with extension) to reduce weight, a propane lantern, stove, heater and lots of propane. and probably a rifle with a box of shells.

we have everything except the large insulated hub style shelter. we also all ice fish a fair amount and i have pretty much all the ice tackle you would ever want/need.

we have a few sets of snow shoes, but i would imagine that each guy would need a pair.

i would think that in one of the sleds you could bring a bunch of pieces of 3/4"(or thicker) foam, enough to piece together a "floor" to insulate the cold and to provide a dry surface. this would also cover the holes so nothing was lost down a hole overnight.

sleeping with the heather may be the biggest concern i have. i have a 'little buddy' that supposedly shuts off when there is too much bad air. leaving a vent open all day would probably take care of most of that. 4 guys in an insulated hut would probably stay decently warm.

bears and wolves would be the other biggie, hence the need for a rifle.

as of now, its probably just a dream, being that the logistics in the winter arent so good. they probably dont plow the lot and a week of snow may bury the car.

but then again maybe this would be something to talk to an outfitter for a ride?

Ice fishing in canoe country......now that would be awesome. As a former ice addict it is only something I occasionally reminisce about now as I sit at this very moment in short sleeves and shorts watching the palm trees gently sway in the breeze ;).

Surely you jest about the box of shells and rifle to ward off bears which are hibernating and wolves which are fat and sassy after eating their fill of deer. I like the idea of a 22 though to maybe plink a grouse and have a redneck "surf and turf".

I'm thinking I wouldn't need no stinkin shanty (although I certainly liked mine back in the day) but a heated sleeping tent would be the cats meow. But with the right gear and a few above zero nights a fellow could go hardcore and just pitch a tent.

Lots of Crown land a fellow could go to as well. Places hard to get to in the summer and not to fer off the road might be the idea in the winter......just trudge right over the swamp. Sounds great to me........lots of nifty gear now to. In the old days we would bushwhack into some pothole and start drilling holes and checking depths......lots and lots of holes. If I didn't get a bite in 15 minutes I was off drilling another hole. In 1975 I remember drilling holes on my hands and knees.....I had "Popeye" forearms and some pretty stout shoulders by spring that year. Those were the days, lots of fun!

Quote:

bears and wolves would be the other biggie, hence the need for a rifle.

You can't bring a firearm into Quetico period.
Crown Land you could for hunting purposes during the winter game season, but that would mean buying a Non-Residnet Hunting License and that's expensive just to bring a firearm for self-defense purposes.
Besides, bear hibernate in the winter, and wolves have plenty to eat in wild game and I don't think there has been a documented wolf/human attack in years anywhere near the Q/BW?
IF for someone's peace of mind you feel a need for a "weapon", get something like this. You could easily kill a wolve IF needed.

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Here are a few links to sites that could probably give you some good info on gear etc.

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I may of mentioned my pastors rather unusual interests before......combat fire arms instructor, martial arts expert and body guard for people most have probably heard of before........( he was recently flown in to a new military urban combat training facility in Nevada to give his opinion). Interesting guy......

He asked me into his office a few weeks back to show me a tactical tomahawk he had picked up......very cool. Sharp as a razor with multiple contact points. Just a smidge to heavy to take tripping but I was tempted to get one. You might look into one of these Jax to ward of off waves of wolves and maybe the errant Orc or two ;). William Wallace and Gimley would be proud!

I have one for "tactical situations" of the home/car camping variety. I had it on a trip once and was practicing throwing it at a big chunk of firewood.

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Guy next campsite over sees me throwing it and comes over to take a look. Before I can say anything, he grabs a hold of it and goes to swing it back to split a piece of firewood like you would a normal hatchet. If I hadn't grabbed his arm, he would of impaled the spike end in his face. ;) ;D
Something to consider if you get that type of item. It's not a "camp" axe but would definitely give you some options IF you needed to dissuade a angry 4 or 2 legged varmint.

I would still prefer the Cold Steel item, becasue you can use it as a knife or short/long spear. Handle is hollow for storing emergency fire starter etc.

excellent info! ive been watching too many hunting shoes lately and forgot that bears hibernate!

i have an extensive primitive weapon collection with slingshots and machetes and spears. id prefer a spear with its reach over a thrown weapon.

about the rifle, i looked into crossing the border with a firearm and saw that pistols require a license and $50 fee, shotguns or rifles for protection all you needed to do was declare and have it legally in a case. no go on the gun then.

my thought is that the shack would act as both a tent and a fishing enclosure. it would also be useful around my home fishing areas. they go on sale at the end of the season and are pretty reasonable.

thanks for the gear links!

Good Luck getting anywhere near the Q in the Winter.  You can't even park your car within 15 miles of an entry lake.  Wolves?  Bears?  Ninja preachers?  Hand augers?  Tactical Tomahawks?  Hunting shoes?  You guys are funny.   ;D

Sleds, dogs, wall tents, BWCA, March = a LT winter trip worth taking.

Quote:

March

My buddy Q-Dave says that March is the best time for a winter fishing trip. Still plenty of ice, not so cold.

PhantomJug wrote on Dec 29^th, 2014 at 4:51am:

Good Luck getting anywhere near the Q in the Winter.  You can't even park your car within 15 miles of an entry lake.  Wolves?  Bears?  Ninja preachers?  Hand augers?  Tactical Tomahawks?  Hunting shoes?  You guys are funny.   ;D Sleds, dogs, wall tents, BWCA, March = a LT winter trip worth taking.

Yeah, and maybe a plastic 5 gallon bucket.

puckster

All sarcasm aside, if you are serious about doing an ice fishing trip in the wilderness, there are relatively easily accessible lakes in the BW.  Knife lake has a major dog trail up to and through it so if you can hook up with a team owner and you can pay, they will shuttle you in and out.  It is a great experience with the right gear; i.e. wall tent w/ fireplace, power auger, snow shoes, electronics, sleeping cot, etc..., and the March LT fishing can be nothing short of fantastic.  I think I have probably planned 10 of these type trips and only 2 have materialized, mostly due to weather, snow and/or dog conditions.  There are also several opportunities up the Skinflint Trail area.

Of course, if you can afford to fly-in, that would be the ticket.  If I could, I'd be on Jean Lake as soon as possible.

PhantomJug wrote on Dec 31^st, 2014 at 9:15pm:

All sarcasm aside, if

??? :o :o ;D

Just a thought, but Q-Dave keeps the road to Lac La Croix village open all year long. Why couldn't you park your vehicle at start of road into Beaverhouse and IF you had a snowmobile/sled, you could go into Beaverhouse, and walk into lake or walk/ski down into Quetico? Or jump into Cirrus.
IF you had a good 4x4 and parked close to gravel plowed road, you should be okay I would think? I don't think it's agaisnt the law to drive a snowmobile into the parks borders and stop, or is it?

Ah, solo.  It sounds so easy doesn't it?  Or have you forgotten how long the road down to BH actually is.  Leaving your rig on Flanders rd?  Navigating BH with all that current running underneath?  C'mon man.

PhantomJug wrote on Jan 1^st, 2015 at 12:24am:

Ah, solo.  It sounds so easy doesn't it?  Or have you forgotten how long the road down to BH actually is.  Leaving your rig on Flanders rd?  Navigating BH with all that current running underneath?  C'mon man.

Wolves? Bears? Nah........Solo? Sure why not. My biggest concern in winter snowshoe travel has always been inadvertently crossing creeks or smallish rivers which have been snowed over. Cross where there is a good drop underneath and you can get busted up.......fall while solo and you can get dead.

Current under ice is my second greatest concern.

I have read of the first scenario having happened to folk, especially out west. And I became potentially entangled in the situation and it is rather unnerving.

The Paradise River flows from Paradise Washington to Longmire (and beyond). The total distance by trail is only some 6 miles (13 by road) but the elevation change is dramatic. The trail follows the river and is a rather pleasant hike. During the winter months I was the night watchman of the Longmire National Park service compound so the midwinter days were often spent solo on a pair of snowshoes or occasionally on skis.

Clever lad that I am I got the genius idea of snowshoeing from the Longmire compound up to Paradise Inn and then the following day continuing on to Camp Muir which is base camp for a summit bid at Mt Rainier (only 3 hours from the top). I got an early start and figured I would destroy the trail to Paradise in 1/2 day easily.......after all I had hiked it numerous times in the summer. Mt Rainier achieved the worlds record in snowfall (1975 I believe) and while not a record year the snow was probably some 8ft deep near Paradise. Several hours into my venture the trail vanished and the Paradise River was no longer discernible having been covered over. Lots of 20ft drops along the river.......I was sweating bullets, loathe to leave the little valley where the river was lest I get lost but knowing I could take the big plunge at any moment.

I ended up losing the trail and the river and popped out behind and below Paradise Inn. I arrived just in time to get a bite to eat (Paradise was open on the weekends throughout the winter). It had taken some 10 hours to travel the six miles.

I did continue on to Camp Muir the next day but that was a piece of cake compared with the upper flanks of where I had been the day before. The jaunt did create a bit of a buzz amongst the Park Rangers and my co-workers. Not sure if the looks I got were grudging respect or "what an idiot" type glances.  Be careful what you decide to bite off.

PJ is right......why the Quetico? BW seems the way to go. Would you know any difference in the middle of winter if I dropped you on a lake in the Q or a lake in the BW? Nay way. I readily admit to being jealous, I would love to do such a trip, sounds great!

 

PhantomJug wrote on Jan 1^st, 2015 at 12:24am:

Ah, solo.  It sounds so easy doesn't it?  Or have you forgotten how long the road down to BH actually is.  Leaving your rig on Flanders rd?  Navigating BH with all that current running underneath?  C'mon man.

  Why so negative PJ? IF we all didn't challenge the "sounds so easy" mentality, none of us would be trippers at all.

I mentioned you could SNOWMOBILE down from Flanders Road to BH. People leave their "rigs" all the time at put-in's in warm weather where you have a greater chance of someone messing with them.
Even if you ride in on a dogsled, they have to take in ice conditions/current running under the ice. People
ski/walk/snowshoe into and across the BWCA/Q all the time

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You mean to tell me that Jaximus a young strong( I'm assuming he is) 26 year old man and his brother wouldn't be up to the riggers of going into BH/Cirrus in the winter IF their properly equipped and motivated?
You could easily run the shoreline to Cirrus portage, jump across and find a nice base camp.
I don't know I could do many miles at my age (66), pulling a loaded sled walking/skiing/snowshoeing, but I damn sure could of done it when I was 26. I cross-country skied 10-15 + miles easily up into my late 40's.
Where's your sense of adventure? I bet for a few bucks Jax could get one of the outfitters in town to drop them off and pick them up at Flanders/BH?

Its about 12 km from Flanders to BH. That's 7.5 mi. Your telling me 2 young strong guys with an early start couldn't ski/walk into BH in one day, camp first night near put-in and go from there to Cirrus or Quetico lk?
Even if they came up short, they have all their gear, you just set-up out of the wind and close to fallen timber for stove wood.
Remember, it's winter, no vegetation, they could easily avoid the current on Q-River and go cross country from BH to Quetico.
I shouldn't speak for Jaximus, I have NO idea if he and his brother are up for that type of challenge, but it's certainly do-able if they are.

Dawson Trail campground is open for Winter activities, you could probably work something out with them and go inland from French Lake if so inclined/

What I'm telling you is that if you left your rig on Flanders Rd., it would be on cinder blocks when you returned or not there at all.  And, I'm not negative.  I'm a critical realist.

---

Well if your being a "critical realist", then you must have a valid reason you say this?
First hand experience/anecdotal?
You could pull in far enough with a 4 x 4 on BH road that it wouldn't be visible directly from the road, unless the snowfall was too much.

Q-Dave leaves his CAT road grader parked on different KM markers turn-offs and has NEVER had anyone vandalize it. He'll hitch a ride back to his truck which he leaves the same way and no-body's bothered it?

I'd worry less about a vehicle being stolen/vandalized up there than I would anywhere a 50 mile radius of Detroit.

Dawson Campground is open all winter, so IF Jaximus was concerned about leaving rig, he could go that route.
As far as I know the vehicles parked at BH is paddling season have been safe. That road is good enough IF someone wanted to come in and clean them out they could easily.

Anyway I was just giving Jaximus some ideas since he said he wanted to go to Q.

Your critical realist opinion is just as valid as my more optimistic one so it's all good.

First hand.  I've also trekked across Nym to get into Batch which ended up being a long walk with no fishing.  If there was no snow, the BH road might be doable - up to that 2' diameter white pine that is lying across the road - but someone as prepared as you would probably have thought of that and brought a chainsaw.  But by the time you get the log moved, the sun has set and you're sleeping in you car wondering why the hell did I do this.  Dang, PJ was right.

Q-Dave has Ontario plates and is a local.  People know him and if it is indeed him who keeps the 1st Nation folks connected to Hwy 11, well, I would leave his rig alone too.  Unfortunately, I do not have his clout or esteem.

Quote:

1st Nation folks

So your saying they would strip you car IF they had the chance? I guess some of them would, but the Rangers in park and at BH are 1st Nations people and their Native friends come and go in there all the time, as far as I know no-body has had their vehicle stripped in BH parking lot.

Not everyone knows Q-Dave by sight in the Lac La Croix village. He plows just to the outskirts of village (Crown Land) and the Tribe plows in village. So too any potential miscreants, Dave's truck, local plates or not is just another 'pale face" to many of the locals.

I wouldn't drive a vehicle all the way into BH parking lot, chances of getting snowed in to great. I don't carry a chainsaw everywhere I go, but I have a good double bit axe and a snatch strap, I have pulled trees out of two tracks many times while 2-tracking in MI for trout spots.

I don't see a lot of people pulling pulks/tobbagons if there's any snow cover walking unless it's short distances, most are using skis.

Anyway it's something to think about one way or the other.

we would want to go where we do in summer, as we have a much better understanding of where the fish "SHOULD" be hanging out. we enter through nym and into batch.

I am not sure that the public landing at nym would be plowed, but i have a hunch that it may be. the cabins out on that lake may just lend itself to having snowmobiles and such accessing the lake from the landing.

otherwise we would attempt to stay the night before we embark on our trip at a local motel, in hopes of leaving our vehicle there and getting a ride with a worker.

gander mountain has a nice 9x9 insulated pop up hub shack with a regular price of $299. hoping that at the end of the season, it gets cut down a ways and that may become the focal point for our winter tripping endeavor.

Winter camping is totally different that summer camping.  Before I would even dream of winter camping in Quetico, I would camp a few days in winter conditions in Wisconsin or Minnesota.  Plus, the days are really short in January so you only have 10 hours of daylight.  If you get wet from any source, you have to have the ability to dry out.  There are reasons why very few people winter camp.

That's a good point. I've spent a few nights out in dead of winter in Lower Northern MI. Temps dropped to around 10 below zero, maybe a little colder with wind chill. I was cold camping, just using a tarp, good sleeping bag and had a fire set-up to reflect heat under the tarp. I was comfortable for the most part, but I wasn't traveling either and there was no danger of getting wet and having to deal with that.

Setting up in your backyard/local park and seeing how all your gear works out would be the smart thing to do before getting too far into the Q/BWCA.

This "might" be a good year for going on a winter ice fishing trip. Talked to Q-Dave over Holidays and he said that unless something changed, it was shaping up to be a milder winter than they had last year.
Last winter was one of the worst they ever had.
Temps hit -40 below and stayed there for days.
Q-Dave told me that there were houses in town that had frozen underground water pipes up into JUNE!

If I remember right BWJ had a story years ago where some locals went in to see the pictos east of Montgomery Lake. It was a cold snowless year and they traveled the lakes on ice skates, via Pickeral, Buckingham, etc. If I remember right it was a day trip too. Probably set off from Stanton Bay.

From what I've gathered from experienced trippers, winter camping is best left to our off season day dreams, i.e. more fun thinking about than really doing. If done, and you really wanted to be remote, try riding a train in and hiking a short distance away. Return by train when you've satisfied your curiosity.

Really? I don't know about everybody else but I have always liked to be outdoors in every imaginable type of weather. Sometimes it was uncomfortable but to be honest I think I liked it more.

In my trap line days I would be out for 4 months straight every day snow or sleet, rain or shine. Worst I had it was a week of below zero in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan. Then it dumped some 3ft of snow and I pulled stakes for the lower. Of course I had a good solid tar paper cabin to spend the nights and a propane stove to make breakfast on.

I would like to think I would be game for being out there but 25 years in Florida has me taking a fleece vest into the movies ;D

I think winter camping would be ok if I had a tar paper shack with a propane stove.  But not so great in an unheated tent. 

When did using permanent shelters count as camping?
Not

And,
I really want to, but can't now, count as doing?

Pretty close to what I said, no?

Hey all I know if I lived in the great white north I would be out there and some cold wouldn't stop me that's for certain.
Everyone can talk a good game. Ever been out daylight to dark late fall through midwinter?....all day every day regardless conditions? Try that for 5 or 6 years and suddenly actually sleeping ("camping") outside becomes a another detail to accomplish not something to be feared.

I'm thinking a wall tent and wood stove might get sort of toasty. Geez, sort of like a mobile tar paper shack.......

Hey all I know if I lived in Florida  I would   have a lot of fun convincing  great white northerners  to stop being sissies and  get outside and cold camp!
Jon

I was thinking that MT is Hap from Red Green. ;)

Thanks for the kind words fellas. Just trying to encourage people to get out in the winter as opposed to discouraging them.......advice from a guy from Florida or advice from a guy who has spent more time in cold and adverse conditions than the average bear? (Geez share an aspect of your life that was deeply personal and meaningful and folk can't wait to to be snide and petty, I sort of get why folk move on).

Quote:

get outside and cold camp!

IMHO the idea of "cold camping" for extended periods is a "white mans idea of roughing it". ;)

Do a little research and you'll see that ALL the indigenous people that lived OFF the land in frigid climates made shelters that allowed them to stay warm and comfortable.

From tents made of skins/ Tipi's/ Yurts/ Igloo's, they ALL provide a place out of the wind/cold and they were ALL heated by whatever fuel source the had on hand. Sure people still cold camp on trips, but I think that's as much about proving to themselves they CAN do it, as actually be as warm and comfortable as well.

Old Mountain men slept under tarps and Buffalo Robes. They'd heat rocks in a fire, put in hole under sleeping spot. cover with soil and stay toasty warm all night.

I have a outdoor skills book that shows how to make a "self feeding" fire set-up that used with a open style dry/fly set-up would keep you warm on the coldest nights. Couple ALL those "lost" skills with modern materials ( not in all cases), and IF you have the will/ DESIRE, there is NO reason you can't be warm and comfortable AND be in a cold, seemingly inhospitable place as viewed by a casual observer.

I have friends that live up North ( lower MI) and "brag" to all about their ice fishing in brutal conditions. :o ::) ;D

What they fail to mention is that the only elements they "brave" is the ride out/in on their snowmobiles with heated hand controls or ATV's with cabins, and then their in "ice shanty's" that look like mini-condo's on the ice. Wood stoves/ cook stoves/ LP lights and TV's. Here them tell it their "Jeremiah Johnsons". :-? ::) ;D ;D

Seems like an overreaction to some good-natured teasing. 8-)

It's so easy to be tough in our own mind.  We have the luxury of concocting any scenario, history, fact or fiction that you so desire as long as it fits your narrative and we can come up with a means to justify it. 

Bottom line is, it's -43 on my deck thermometer.  You guys can take your egos and shove them down your buffalo hide skivvies.  I'm staying inside.

Floridians are evidently a Little too  thin skinned for cold camping anyway. It has been below  zero here all day with a stiff wind. I have been out skiing twice and am going to go one more time when the  full moon gets a little higher but it sure is nice to come and sit in my lazy boy by the fire in between.
Jon

Jon gets a Gold Star on His MAN CARD ;) 8-) ;D ;D

Thin skinned? Perhaps.......Concoctions? Nope, not even a little. I did run a trapline for quite a few years in Washington, the U.P. of Michigan and downstate. I sold fur which I put up on the Seattle fur exchange as well as local dealers in Michigan. About the only thing I haven't caught has been wolves (which I didn't try for) and I failed at Marten trapping despite giving it a good go. Tough? Sure, you have to be to run a line. The one thing you have to have as a trapper is what I call grit. The ability to wade through the mess and keep on going day after day month after month. I have lots of good stories but if I share them it just provides fodder for the MT haters.

I felt compelled to reveal a little history lest I be a Florida guy telling folk to not let others discourage them from getting out. Oh well.........For me its not so much being uncomfortable in tent (by all means have a excellent down bag and piles of thermal gear) but its the amount of time spent in the tent I would find discouraging. 12 or 13 hours in a nylon tent would be punishment itself regardless the temps.

As for me.......I would embrace the winter if I lived in the north. I would ski, snowshoe, snowmobile, trap, hunt and fish like I have done my entire life before moving to Florida and cold would be a reality to overcome and wouldn't stop me from pursuing the things I like to do. Didn't stop me before wether it was predator calling at 2 in the morning on a zero degree night or huddled behind some one else's shanty while the wind was honkin 40 MPH and spindrift collecting in the hole every 10 minutes.   

This thread reminded me of something Garrison Keillor, our resident Minnesota bard, once wrote.  His "essay" deals with winter cold, and well, other topics that have been very evident in this thread.

Garrison wrote:

---

I come from Minnesota, where it's considered shameful to be shameless, where modesty is always in fashion, where self-promotion is looked at askance. Give us a gold trophy and we will have it bronzed so you won't think that we think we're special. There are no Donald Trumps in Minnesota: We strangled them all in their cribs. A football player who likes to do his special dance after scoring a touchdown is something of a freak.

The basis of modesty is winter. When it's ten below zero and the wind is whipping across the tundra, there is no such thing as stylish and smart, and everybody's nose runs. And the irony is, if you're smart and stylish, nobody will tell you about your nose. You look in the rearview mirror and you see a gob of green snot hanging from your left nostril and you wonder, "How long have I been walking around like that? Is that why all those people were smiling at me?"

Yes, it is.

So we don't toot our own horns. We can be rather ostentatious in our modesty and can deprecate faster than you can compliment us. We are averse to flattery. We just try to focus on keeping our noses clean.

I hope some of you can see the humor and relevancy of his words.

puckster

my thread was mostly for ideas on how plausible it would be to achieve. it wouldnt be a dead of winter thing, maybe a november or march endeavor.

the idea was to use one of those insulated shacks, the pop up style ones. bring foam for a floor and fish and sleep in the same building.

being that i have a month only baby, its probably just a lot of talk at this point, but i thought it sounds fun.

i lived in northern wisconsin growing up and still live in central wisconsin. i icefish a lot, i hunt, i camp, i look for deer antler sheds, and shovel my neighbors driveways because i dont feel that should have to come out in the cold. im used to dealing with cold.

Sure, tis not in fashion to toot your own horn but slander, smear and innuendo is fine and dandy correct?

Yes I foolishly had to reveal a bit of my history as a basis or a foundation to give an opinion that had any merit whatsoever especially considering where I currently reside. You have missed a rather unique opportunity to inquire about a lifestyle that not many in the outdoors have embraced.   

mastertangler wrote on Jan 6^th, 2015 at 1:22am:

You have missed a rather unique opportunity to inquire about a lifestyle that not many in the outdoors have embraced.

Yeah, well, most of us that live up here are well aware of that 'lifestyle'.  It is not uncommon - it's quite typical in fact.  So, it looks like your unique MT . . . . just like everybody else.  Obviously, Keillor was lost on you.

_more gauntlets thrown !  duels!! ruffled feathers !   bruised egos ! Yow!!   ...All over some mid winter musings. I can't say the site is too quiet now. :o

I went winter camping at a state park once. I learned condensation was not my friend. Helped a friend with his grandfathers trapline one morning. Yup, not my idea of a good time either. That was back when I owned a winter coat.

Ooh, I use to love ice fishing though. I still have the chisel my dad made. I noticed it when I got the shovels down after this year's first snow. It's a touchstone plus I might need it for something someday maybe. I remember he constructed a shelter for ice fishing that we never used. It was pretty cool actually. I used the same fusion technology to create a liner for a backyard hockey rink when my kid was younger. I spent more time shoveling it than using it, but it did get used and those two skating parties were a blast.

First guy or girl to send us a POD of someone with a Grandpa drip wins?

Point is, we are out of PODs folks.

PhantomJug wrote on Jan 6^th, 2015 at 2:06am:

mastertangler wrote on Jan 6th, 2015 at 1:22am: You have missed a rather unique opportunity to inquire about a lifestyle that not many in the outdoors have embraced.    Yeah, well, most of us that live up here are well aware of that 'lifestyle'.  It is not uncommon - it's quite typical in fact.  So, it looks like your unique MT . . . . just like everybody else.  Obviously, Keillor was lost on you.

Not lost in the least PJ.......I am well aware of the pitfalls of lifting yourself up......"The tallest tree in the forest is the first one to get cut down" >chinese proverb, "you can have your opinion or your friends, you can't have both" Ben Franklin and best of all Proverbs 27:2 "Let others praise you, even strangers, never do it yourself".

I get it, but a few caveats.......As a lover of truth I'm not going to sit here and be silent while folk like yourself accuse me of fabricating and/or exaggerating my frame of reference. Especially when it is the exact opposite of what is trying to be established.......... not happening. I react much the same when it is someone else who is being impugned unfairly. I have little tolerance for it. Truth is more important than being liked or accepted.

Lets look at it this way.......Many are perceiving a boast. I don't see it that way at all. I am rather establishing a frame of reference> Here is my experiences and a bit of history as to why my opinion should have any value. I never said I was the greatest trapper, or fisherman or climber etc. etc.....in fact far from it. Just a modest amount of inquiry would of established as much.

I'm not sure you have noticed but think back........when someone on this board reveals an accomplishment or an interest which is of a personal nature who is the first one to voice acceptance? To find what others have done as interesting? We have to many who are more interested in tearing down rather than building up IMO.   

As for Mr Keillor his show was lots better before he convinced himself he was a singer........His singing voice is so bad I have to change channels. (Ah the conundrum of life......in one sentence we talk about building others up and in the next we are trashing our fellow man  ;) ) 

db wrote on Jan 6^th, 2015 at 7:26am:

First guy or girl to send us a POD of someone with a Grandpa drip wins? Point is, we are out of PODs folks.

Oooooo.  Gave me something to do on this -17 day.  God knows I'm not going outside.  I know I have some of pics of me and Grampa on Mille Lacs from the 70's.

Looks like it might be time for the POW  :o ?  Even I could take 52 pictures.

Let's make this THE last word on a subject that has taken a not so humorous turn. :-? ::)

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“Two men went into the wilderness to play, one a Floridian artist and the other an alcoholic Minnesotan. “The Floridian stood in his Rail-riders with his boga-grip and bags of name-brand gear and was thinking to himself: ‘God, I thank You that I am not like other people: Democrats, gays, drinkers, sarcastic or self deprecating liberals, or even like this drunk Minnesotan. ‘I fish twice a week, tie all the right knots, have a ninja preacher and quote scripture and right wing political ideas at every opportunity.’

“But the Minnesotan, peeing behind a tree at some distance away, was unable to lift up his eyes to heaven, and was beating his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me, a complete knucklehead!’ “I tell you, this man went to his tent justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but he who humbles himself will be exalted.”

Was the " drunk Minnesotan" riding a CAMEL thru the EYE of the Needle?  ;) ;D ;D

solotripper wrote on Jan 6^th, 2015 at 2:32pm:

Was the " drunk Minnesotan" riding a CAMEL thru the EYE of the Needle?  ;) ;D ;D

I don't get it.   :-?

Last night I woke up at about  two AM and I could see through the skylight a still pretty full moon directly overhead as the clouds had cleared off. An inch of new light fluffy snow had fallen and the skiing would be outstanding. If only I had MT's grit I would get up get dressed and go out for a spectacular ski trek around the farm here in WI. But being the great white northern sissy that I am I curled up under heavy blanky's and went back to sleep.
Jon

Nicely done PJ.

Minus 43 would be rough if not plain and outright dangerous. Not sure I would fare well in that especially now that I'm old, slow and used to warm weather. I used to laugh at the Florida people who would bundle up at the mere hint of cold weather and now I'm one of them.

I did a lot in the teens but never any really cold weather.......below zero for a week in the UP was a hassle with all my sets freezing up. On the western flanks of the cascades in Washington wasn't bad at all with mostly just lots of snow and even then you could drop in elevation and get away from it.

What I liked was going over the same ground for a few weeks and suddenly one day everything is different, smells and colors often radically different in just a 24 hour span.

grit? You bet! Unless of course you drive your line via truck which is certainly more profitable but loads less fun. I remember one extensive beaver swamp that had iced over and then the water dropped. The ice wasn't enough to support my weight with the 2 huge flattails which practically filled my pack basket (tails were out the top). Every step I would eventually break through and fall. Major tough time. Such was life on the line.....lots of similar situations, wading swollen rivers and using my spade as a brace wondering where I would end up if the current got the best of me.

It was a different life......I would quit decent paying jobs come fall to basically break even and work harder than a man should. But I wouldn't have traded it......it will instill a determination and perseverance that is difficult to come by via other means. At least it did for me.

MT

i used to ice fish without a shack at all when i was younger. we would brave the cold and go stand out on a frozen lake. we would walk laps around our tipup spread chipping the ice out in a never ending loop. we walked to stay warm, but we had fun. since then ive invested in the popup sled style shack and take that with me to smaller lakes. I even have 3 large insulated shacks that are nicer than some homes. is it more enjoyable in the big shacks? maybe, i like the simplicity sometimes, i like the illusion of mortality.

I grew up in the UP. We lived in a little shack of a house. I used to spend all my time outside, summer and winter, unless the snow was too deep to walk in. One night after being outside all day, I was lying in bed looking up at the stars thinking "where the hell is the roof". I learned to appreciate a warm shelter and soft bed.

Jaximus, Back to our original thought. I've only camped in a tent twice in the winter, and thought it sounded great too. I love the winter, but  IMO it's better enjoyed if you can get back out of it and warm back up.
Probably some cabins on the Gunflint Trail where you could access lakes with skis or snowshoes for the day.

FWIW, I just ran my traps, nothing today. But I did get 3 mice this week, I'll visit the basement later this evening after skiing and snowshoeing.

Quote:

But I did get 3 mice this week, I'll visit the basement later this evening after skiing and snowshoeing.

Your not planning on this are you JJS?  ;) ;D ;D

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Jim J Solo wrote on Jan 7^th, 2015 at 4:37pm:

FWIW, I just ran my traps, nothing today. But I did get 3 mice this week, I'll visit the basement later this evening after skiing and snowshoeing.

Hey Jim J Solo has grit to........I suggest prompt medical attention, I think you can get a prescription these days.

Funny how life works........today I biked in shorts and a pullover and yet I am pining away completely jealous of you guys who are snowshoeing and skiing in the great white north.

solotripper wrote on Jan 7^th, 2015 at 6:01pm:

[quote]

Your not planning on this are you JJS?  ;) ;D ;D

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Hmmmm........sounds fishy to me. Wolves eat mostly mice and just pick on the weak and old caribou? Certainly doesn't jive with what I have heard........During the annual caribou migration It is my understanding that wolf packs get the herds running and snap the back hamstring and put down as many as they can. Those reporting the behavior have suggested it seemed like "sport" to them. They certainly have the equipment to do the job. That has more the ring of truth in my mind.

Not saying thats a bad thing........everything has to eat and littering a valley with caribou puts some meat on the bones of every fox, raven and bear within miles.

That movie was based on this Canadian authors life long love of nature and the wild.

He lived one hell of a life.

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He lived the life depicted in the movie.
His observations about Wolves have been largely proven and accepted by experts in the field.
Wolves are not and never have been the mindless killers that they've been made out to be, by people who fear what they don't understand and others who profited off the bounties on them.

Think what you want........plenty of ammo to counter that opinion that is for certain. Lots of critters in the wild are just that......mindless killers with zero conscience about taking life.

Are the wolves sometimes satiated and fat and happy and ignore the plenteous game around them. Sure, absolutely. But stories are legion of wolves being killing machines and bringing down more than they could eat in months. What explains that?

And how about cute little mink who kill everything that crosses their paths if they are able to catch it? Much of it is left behind.

I'm no expert on wolves so I am just going by what I have read numerous times. I do not have a romanticized perspective about wolves. "Experts"in the field? You mean professors funded by some university? I'll take the word of the folks who live and work and share the land with the wolves who aren't funded my some grant money to achieve a politically correct conclusion.

Not saying wolves are bad (although I might have a different perspective if I were a rancher or an Eskimo whose child was eaten).......such seemingly abhorrent behavior supplies plenty of food for other animals and often at a crucial time of year.

This is an interesting article......I read the entire thing and it brought to bear a political consequence effecting hunters I had not considered before. Quite enlightening. Towards the end the author makes my case which I have read many many times over from other eyewitness accounts of wolf behavior.

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FWIW......growing up Farley was a favorite read of mine.

Quote:

Think what you want..

I think what I've gleaned from watching hundred of hours on Nature documentaries made by people who's job it is to set state and federal guidelines for wildlife management. They get paid for their work either way, so they have no axe to grind, just what the field work tells them.


Quote:

But stories are legion of wolves being killing machines and bringing down more than they could eat in months. What explains that?

That's what they are, "stories". Wolfs like ALL predators are opportunist. They rather take down a weak young/old prey animal than one that could potentially gore/stomp them to death or make them lame and unable to keep up with the pack, a sure death sentence in the wild.

I've never read any DOCUMETNED accounts of wolves just killing to kill. They might chase plenty more than they can actually bring down but most predators go hungry far more than they get their prey.

NOVA had a excellent documentary about a biologist who spent a year following the wolf packs in Yellowstone. He filmed numerous wolf kills and far more misses. They circle the herd making  bluff charges into the herd until a calf/mother or an older adult makes a break for it. Then they run them until they stand they can't run anymore and turn to fight. It's all over then. The strong survive and the weak perish. That weeds out the poor genes and insures the survivors have the strongest genes to pass on to the next generation.

The Native People who knew/ know their LAND better than anyone, revered the Wolf and I doubt they would of felt that way IF they were just mindless killing machines.

IF wolves were just killing machines or ANY predators for that matter, they'd soon hunt/kill themselves out of existence. That's not how the balance of nature works.


When they re-introduced wolves to Yellowstone Park the anti-would people said it would be the end of the ELK herds, nothing could be farther from the truth. Elk had over populated the park and the gene pool was poor. They overgrazed their favorite trees to the point the Beavers who ate them as well, disappeared from the park.
Now the wolves have got the Elk herd in balance, the trees are coming back and so are the Beaver, who by damming the little streams keep the water in the park and give life to all the little critters that live in the marshlands.

Q-Dave got 2 nice deer this year, both dressed out over 200 lbs. Both taken right outside the Park in either pulp wood cuts, or recently re-planted forested areas. More deer there than in park, wolves too. All that old growth underbrush makes it hard for deer/moose to browse. The wolf packs have picked up on the deer moving there and followed them.

Plenty of healthy deer and wolves, everything in balance. Biggest issue for both is if they have another brutal winter like last year?

I read that article in the link.
You said you rather take the word of people who are not FUNDED to get a PC conclusion.
Did you happen to see who's "funding" the writer of that article?

T. R. Mader is Research Director for Abundant Wildlife Society of North America (AWS), a private wildlife research organization dedicated to the preservation of the Great North American Traditions of Hunting, Fishing and Trapping.

Hardly an unbiased expert.

Here's his Bio.   (You need to Login or Register

I don't see anything regarding his educational qualifications for being a "Research Director" for anything, never mind Wolves. He's a guy with an "opinion", and a very biased one at that.

I know its pointless to try and change ST's mind once he has something in his head.......and instead of the correct response which would of been> "hey, thanks MT for taking the time to post that link, it sort of opened my eyes to the slightest possibility that what I have been told by the PBS nature documentaries might not be entirely true and even though I hate your guts I know your not a liar and if you say you have read many accounts of wolves killing indiscriminately I might be inclined to search out the issue and see for myself what the real truth is.........maybe its somewhere in between, that wolves only kill what they need, until they decide to go on a binge and kill just for the fun of it."

That was response "B". Instead, as per usual, you double down on your way or the highway.

BTW......the author of the article, instead of bringing into question the substance of his arguments you attack him on a personal level. That has a very familiar ring to it from my vantage point. Anyways, I personally I believe that the real conservationists have always been hunters, fishermen and trappers who work to set land aside for what they love to do and nobody but nobody wants abundant and healthy populations of animals more than these folk .

Hey and one other thing.......why does Canada have managed wolf hunts? Geez, do their biologists have it wrong and PBS has it right? Why do they feel the need to thin them out by 1/2 or more? I wonder why that would be? Hmmmm? 

The eye of a needle is a biblical reference which I think was made by Jesus.  I am not a biblical scholar, but I did go to Sunday School.  The eye of a needle is basically a cattle guard.  It is a gate to a city or other structure which is so small that a camel can't enter the city.  As a kid I had a hard time forming a mental picture of a camel going through the eye of a sewing needle.  Later as an adult I learned that the eye of a needle referred to a gate.

Quote:

.why does Canada have managed wolf hunts? Geez, do their biologists have it wrong and PBS has it right?

First off, PBS Nova/Nature NEVER said they were against managing the wolf's or any other species by either "culling" by naturalists or allowing a limited or MAYBE a open hunting season.
What their against are people that out of ignorance and unfounded fear, wanted to kill wolves in a eco-system like Yellowstone when there was clearly plenty of natural food for the limited amount of wolves in the area. When/IF the wolf numbers get greater than their food source, they'll use whatever sound wildlife management techniques they deem necessary and that may or may not include hunting?

Canada has a far greater land mass and highest ratio of wilderness to people that the US does.
Wolves in Canada are not considered "endangered" in the areas that allow hunting. I'm sure IF that changes, the Canadian BIOLOGIST will address it and act accordingly.

All those people on those PBS shows are field biologists with advanced degrees. Most are also hunters and fishermen themselves They spend summers/winters, doing the hard science. They track animal movements with radio collars, check kills and examine bite marks to see what predator did the kill. They take scat samples and analysis what the animals are eating. Tranquilize animals and take Blood samples to see how their doing and get DNA samples to check the gene pools, necessary for a healthy herd.

They do this to let the FACTS dictate the policy, not undocumented "stories" that are more fear/bias based than factual PROVEABLE accounts.

Yes, I stand behind their expert opinions because of all I've alluded too and the fact all the state and federal wildlife agencies do as well.

You want to believe this guy:    (You need to Login or Register

I didn't attack him on a personal level, I said that he had NO degreed educational background that would lead me to believe he was more qualified than the real professionals with actual scientific degrees?

Other than the fact his Bio reads like a Mini-MT, I don't see anything that qualifies him giving ANYTHING but his own opinion, a heavily biased one at that.

I pointed that salient fact out so my fellow QJers IF so inclined can look at my frame of expert reference and the one you linked too.
Let everyone decide for themselves who they feel is MORE qualified to recommend conservation policy.

Westwood wrote on Jan 7^th, 2015 at 11:12pm:

The eye of a needle is a biblical reference which I think was made by Jesus.  I am not a biblical scholar, but I did go to Sunday School.  The eye of a needle is basically a cattle guard.  It is a gate to a city or other structure which is so small that a camel can't enter the city.  As a kid I had a hard time forming a mental picture of a camel going through the eye of a sewing needle.  Later as an adult I learned that the eye of a needle referred to a gate.

Yeah, I understand the reference, Westwood.  It's harder for a rich man to enter the Kingdom than a camel to go through the eye of a needle.  You see, it wasn't impossible, only difficult, but a camel could could enter the through the eye of the needle on it's knees.  It's a reference to humility and where one puts their faith.  I was just wondering how it related to the fore mentioned parable of Jesus (which was a literal translation of the Aramaic, if I am correct  ;))

Ice fishing?? 8-)

Hey who knows? I'm merely suggesting that you have an open mind ST and tolerate the possibility that you might be wrong thats all. I'm no wolf expert and in fact have only seen one in the wild when it chased a moose into a lake in Algonquin. Pretty cool.....sounded like a house falling into the water and Mr Wolf bouncing excitedly on the bank.

That was only the first thing I came across after a brief search. Thanks for the bio......seems like my kind of guy ;) As I have mentioned before I have read about this sort of behavior several times in the numerous books I have on the Arctic, Canadian and polar regions. Are they making stuff up? I rather doubt it........I think that wolves, like lots of carnivores, go on killing sprees and such sprees aren't uncommon in the least. The carnage I described earlier from one of my readings was actually worse than I related. According to the author the caribou run a gauntlet of various packs during the annual migration and are chased continually with the wolves clipping the hamstrings. True? I don't know for sure but it is a rather old book written long ago before there was any agendas and the caribou herds were thick indeed.

One thing I will agree with you on is while wolves may be bloodthirsty (it is after all what they eat) I don't believe they are into continual slaughter all the time. Way to much chance of getting injured.......so they pick their moments, when there is a decided advantage and the odds of getting injured are slim.

The major point of the authors article (besides the few paragraphs where he relates incidences of wolves killing because they can) was rather alarming from a sportsman point of view and makes perfect sense. Keep the wolves on the endangered species list, convince the public they are little more than a larger version of their pet German Shepherd, and then ban hunting through the courts using data biologists gather stating that there isn't enough game for wolves and hunters. Hunters will have to give way.......very common strategy for all sorts of causes just plug in different names.

But enough about wolves.......have you ever seen the movie "The House of the Flying Daggers"? A Kung Fu movie but it is so cool. The costumes, the colors, the music, the stylized fighting scenes. And the plot.......a little hard to follow but it has it all.......love, betrayal, loyalties are tested. Sure its over the top but very entertaining and eye candy. Rent it or buy it used.......its around.

Hey wait a minute......we hi-jacked Jax's thread (say that 5 times fast ;) ). Not sure I get the fish and sleep out of the same hut. Sounds complicated........I think I need some pics.   

A few more thoughts........amazing what a good nights sleep can accomplish (I was in bed at 9:30!). You want to believe the "experts"....the people with pieces of paper which indicate how smart (and obviously noble) they are. I used to be swayed by such claims until I wised up.

I credit Jim Tour of Rice University, one of the top 10 chemists in the world for enlightening me as to why I should not place complete trust in the scientific community.
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It is his belief that many scientists are polled about politically correct beliefs such as evolution and global warming and answer in the affirmative not because they believe its true but rather because they have a vested interest. Mr Tour asserts that a relatively small group of people will decide who gets published in scientific journals and who gets grants. Ah! I get it.......add in that they are often polled about questions outside their fields and it is very easy to check the box that says sure, especially since it might cost you if you don't. Are you getting the picture? We are living in an age where there is intolerance of politically incorrect views. Step out of line and expect to get punished.

Take Global Warming as an example.......we have climate gate where the noble scientists decided to falsify data because it didn't follow computer models. The Emails show how casual they were about having to lie. And then we have the famed "Hockey stick graph" which was used so effectively in Al Gores movie.......unfortunately the graph is false and it took a freedom of information act lawsuit to evaluate the quoted scientist work in question......turns out he purposely left out 2 very significant climactic changes. Graph might have looked whole lots different. I wonder how much he was paid to arrive at that "scientific proof" that made its way into Mr Gores movie?

The experts? ST you state unequivocally that biologists are also hunters and fishermen. Um, how did you arrive at that conclusion as to state it as fact? Probably more true 50 years ago but my hunch that todays wildlife biologist is just as likely to be a strident anti hunter and coming up with lots of data to prove hunting is destroying our natural resource (hunters are the cause of caribou decline not wolves > sound familiar?). And what about it........the wildlife biologist comes in and does a 6 month or maybe a year study (who provided the grant? Just wondering is all) comes to some conclusions and extrapolates the results to all of Wolfdom (Hey, I like the sound of that, "Wolfdom"). We are going to take that as gospel over the people who have spent their entire lives with wolves and have observed them playfully going through a herd like a sickle through wheat? And its funny how the media seldom shows wolves tearing their meals apart while still alive with blood all over their faces and chest, their prey bleating while the pack snaps and snarls. Just sayin......doesn't bother me, I understand the whole circle of life thing.

   

I'd like to go ice fishing.

:-X

solotripper wrote on Jan 7^th, 2015 at 6:01pm:

[quote] But I did get 3 mice this week, I'll visit the basement later this evening after skiing and snowshoeing.

Your not planning on this are you JJS?  ;) ;D ;D

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:dankk2 but not eating them, not even skinning them for their pelts. Like the Farley Mowat books too.

Wolves kill Eskimo children?
Jon

Jon wrote on Jan 8^th, 2015 at 2:59pm:

Wolves kill Eskimo children? Jon

Hi Jon, did you get that farm you were thinking about getting? Sounded great!

One of the most enjoyable reads I have ever had the pleasure of spending time with is called "Arctic Adventure" by Peter Freuchen. I have read it several times and will read it again......simply an amazing read. I picked it up in a used bookstore many years ago and it was quite old and rather expensive, hardback complete with B/W photos. I see that it is still available at Amazon and in paperback if I remember correctly. Anyway I promise you no regrets if you take the plunge or ST will refund your money.

I wouldn't know about wolves eating eskimo children as I don't know any Eskimos except for Eskimo Joe in Stillwater Oklahoma. But Mr. Freuchen might know, ask him.

mastertangler wrote on Jan 7^th, 2015 at 8:03pm:

Think what you want........plenty of ammo to counter that opinion that is for certain. Lots of critters in the wild are just that......mindless killers with zero conscience about taking life. Are the wolves sometimes satiated and fat and happy and ignore the plenteous game around them. Sure, absolutely. But stories are legion of wolves being killing machines and bringing down more than they could eat in months. What explains that? And how about cute little mink who kill everything that crosses their paths if they are able to catch it? Much of it is left behind. I'm no expert on wolves so I am just going by what I have read numerous times. I do not have a romanticized perspective about wolves. "Experts"in the field? You mean professors funded by some university? I'll take the word of the folks who live and work and share the land with the wolves who aren't funded my some grant money to achieve a politically correct conclusion. Not saying wolves are bad (although I might have a different perspective if I were a rancher or an Eskimo whose child was eaten).......such seemingly abhorrent behavior supplies plenty of food for other animals and often at a crucial time of year. This is an interesting article......I read the entire thing and it brought to bear a political consequence effecting hunters I had not considered before. Quite enlightening. Towards the end the author makes my case which I have read many many times over from other eyewitness accounts of wolf behavior.   (You need to Login or Register FWIW......growing up Farley was a favorite read of mine.

Ice is slippery!

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MT should be a farmer, he wouldn't have to buy any fertilizer.

Westwood wrote on Jan 8^th, 2015 at 11:53pm:

MT should be a farmer, he wouldn't have to buy any fertilizer.

Come on Westwood, why be a hater? Just trying to be interesting is all......casual conversation. The accusers, never saying why your wrong but always saying your a "bad person". Its their style, are you a politician or a lawyer or a liberal?

So what is now that I have said which is offensive? Because I have a different opinion? A different perspective and am willing to stand toe to toe in a light form of verbal fisticuffs? I have been polite throughout.......

So I don't buy into the the noble wolf looking skyward with its chest puffed out as it casually surveys its domain carefully evaluating the herds of caribou or deer and elk and seeing which are sick and old and need to be gently removed.....for the good of all. I'm not a wolf hater but the only Bullsh*t in this conversation is that perspective IMHO (since you brought up fertilizer).

The intolerance of some is breathtaking in this society and it is spreading like a cancer. Don't follow the politically correct line and your going to get smeared. Its obvious you can't win the debate so you have to go personal and discredit the messenger. Don't be intolerant.......the only thing that matters is truth, be open to it. Is it possible that what I am conveying is true? That the eyewitness sources I have related aren't liars? That should be the only concept which should concern you. But people don't want to be educated (open to truth), they want to stay in their comfortable belief systems and woe to those who dare to suggest otherwise.

Here is what I believe about wolves according to what I have read. Generally speaking ST's perspective is correct. They take what they need (which is still considerable). But I also believe they are opportunistic and yes I do think they take some pleasure in the kill and when the opportunity presents itself I believe some bloodlust kicks in and they use the tools provided to knock down enormous quantities of game. From a biological standpoint this isn't always a bad thing as other animals will find the booty and often at a difficult time of year. But thats just my opinion arrived at through what I have read. I could be wrong and the various accounts I have read could be false. I have no first hand knowledge.

I also don't buy into the concept that wolves don't eat people. I believe they can and will but only in extreme cold and they are on the verge of starvation. That there is no documented proof in North America doesn't surprise me.......there would be little, if anything, left. In the Arctic it wasn't that unusual or unheard of for Eskimo children to be taken. I suspect that this happened largely before the rifle was introduced into the culture. After that any bold wolf would be a dead wolf.

I am currently reading "Across Arctic America" by Knud Rasmussen who was a close friend of the afore mentioned Peter Fruechen (Arctic Adventure). It was a 20,000 mile dog sled trek across Greenland to Siberia from 1921 to 1924> done as a scientific expedition with a focus on the Eskimo people, it is fascinating.

Perhaps I am not cut out for this type of interaction. A little to brusque, a little to rough around the edges? I have given some thought this morning as to why my perspective is slighted. Perhaps it is not my evaluation of wolves at all but rather my callousness towards the scientific community....the "experts" as it were. Maybe therein is the crux as to why I am full of fecal matter?

Yes tis true I am not completely convinced when I hear claims that 90% of scientists believe this, that or the other thing. I am of a continual skeptical mind having lived long enough to know better ("you can keep your doctor" etc. etc).

I will provide a perspective of a man who by all appearances seems beyond reproach. Do yourself a favor and read what he has to say......it is very illuminating. His name is Jim Tour of Rice University and he is considered one of the top ten chemists in the world with numerous patents and abundant articles published. I think he presents a very fair account of creation vs evolution.........but what is telling is that he has personally witnessed colleagues punished for stating they have doubts about macro-evolution. What I find even more reprehensible and alarming is that he tells his students if they want to advance in their careers not to voice opposition publicly to evolution. Is this what we want? Intolerance and no diversity of thought?

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So how does this intolerance manifest itself in the scientific community? How about that you don't get your work published by the "powers that be" or you don't get grant money. Not buying into the "cause"? So much for your career.

When I woke today I had wanted to talk about where you guys ice fish for lakers. Are they shallow on top of some reef? The QJ member I trout fished with earlier this fall played me some video he had of an October 2014 trip where he and a friend caught 30 lakers in a row. That was impressive! Unfortunately the trip ended abruptly the following day when a nasty cold front blew in and left them windbound for several days straight.....such is fall tripping I suppose.

   

It's obvious MT isn't going to " LET IT GO", so anyone who's interested should go to that link and read Tour's "THEORY".

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THEN: To be fair and get both sides of the argument, Go here and read this.

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Take PARTICULAR note of the highlighted paragraphs.
They get right to the "meat" of the "controversy".

Read them both and decide which one you think is more valid/plausible?

Yes by all means read the humble Mr Tour who concedes he doesn't understand from a chemical standpoint how Macroevolution can occur and then read the detractors "hit" piece and decide for yourself who is the better man. It wasn't enough for you ST that Tour also states he sees no proof of Intelligent Design on a purely scientific perspective? Controversy? I see none and in fact I note that Mr Tour took great pains to avoid as much.  

Just a guess, but my suspicion is the attacker probably couldn't hold a candle to the credentials of Mr Tour.

But the God Haters abound......... I find it astonishing ST that you took the time to search out a smear piece on such a fine man. It speaks volumes......do you have any idea how creepy that is?...Can we say "intolerance"? Are we, on a societal level, understanding what is going on yet? 

Smear piece?
Shouldn't the readers decide that for themselves?

Hardly the response one would expect from a guy who NEVER misses a chance to tell everyone he's a " Man of Science and a Seeker of "truthiness"

We agree on one thing. It's creepy all right. ::)

in wisconsin they had a wolf hunt this year. my numbers are probably off, but i throw them out there. i think all the tags were filled within the first couple days, meaning they were easy to harvest. this coming year they took the wolves off of the harvest list and back on the endangered one.

in a world without people the balance of nature would keep deer/wolves/elk/moose in line. but, being that deer are north americas #1 big game species, humans are harvesting some of what wolves would naturally take. as long as im not on the menu of a wolf, i dont really have much of an issue with their existence. i know many guys with land near where i hunt that have wolves showing up on trail cameras pretty regularly. kinda spooky.

wolves probably would have helped the EHD and chronic wasting disease issues with deer herds in wisconsin and iowa.

anyway, about ice fishing, it would be one of those open floor hub style shacks, the insulated variety.

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and then have styrofoam pieces to cover the floor for insulation and keep you up off of the ice. have a few pieces for covering the holes that pop out to fish during the awake time and then cover the holes for night time. lay a big tarp over the top of all of it to keep your stuff dry.

condensation would probably become an issue, but they do have vents for letting some out and the windows can open to 'air it out' occasionally.

MT doesn't believe in  reading rebuttals to his opinions. In this instance he would not have to guess at the credentials of  the "attacker", he could just read them in the sidebar. The February issue of Outside magazine arrived in my mailbox today and it has a feature article on the reintroduction of wolves in the western US. Very balanced with much of the interviews with ranchers.  What happened to ice fishing in the Q? How did we get from there to the very goofy professor Tour?
Jon

Shouldn't need the floor Jax.  With adequate snow cover it should be fine.  Drill your holes and pack it down.  If you want a floor, both Clam and Eskimo brands make a portables with a floor.  Personally, I don't like the plastic floor because they have the deep channels running lengthwise.  If you could make a foldable wood floor out of plywood, you have a better base- no channels and not as slippery - you can rig it so the wood base is a sled as well.  These things are so well built these days that ventalation isn't a problem either.  The quilted ones hold the heat quite well.  I can just about heat mine with a candle.

Course I spend most of my time in my winter office.  It has wheels.  :)

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the foam floor was because we would be using this shelter for fishing and sleeping. would help keep you and your equipment dry as well as keeping the ice from leaching away your heat

Thanks for getting this thread back on topic!  :dankk2

BWJ winter issue has a couple of nice articles about winter camping, one is focused on traveling, and the other camping/fishing. Sounds like the 2nd story they rented some gear, not sure what they rented.

This item might be a good investment to use solo or in some combination with the foam.
You could cut a couple of 3 sided flaps for your holes.
I'm familiar with this fabric from my commercial construction days. We used it to cover our dump truck loads. Tough stuff and remains flexible in the cold.
Good price for the quality.

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I have wondered about ice fishing in Quetico ever since my June 2012 trip with my son, when he found an ice fishing pole leaning against a tree at the Walter end of the Elizabeth-Walter portage.  (Somehow this got left out of my report - I was too focused on surviving with our home-made paddles to remember it until now!)

Walter seems like a long way to go into the park in the winter!  Maybe ice fishing wasn't the only goal -- maybe a nice CC skiing trip + fishing?

Anyway, an ice-fishing report would be a great thing to see on the forum!!

-Tom

Mk631 wrote on Jan 14^th, 2015 at 5:29pm:

. . . found an ice fishing pole leaning against a tree at the Walter end of the Elizabeth-Walter portage.

I am going to guess that someone used it in the summer and left it behind.  I have witnessed a few people, for what I can only imagine is for the sake of being ultra-light and compact, bringing ice rods into Quetico.  It's a head-scratcher but I've seen it a few times.   :-?

Solotripper would have done well to tote one along on his canoe trip last May....

Jimbo   8-)

Yup, and a Ice Breaker Bow Plate for the canoe too. ;D ;D

ive actually contemplated a small ice rod for vertical jigging in the summer as it would be small and compact, but then it probably wouldnt be that enjoyable and would cause more annoyance than its worth.

after going through my gear again and looking into what i would still need and what the group would have to acquire, the winter fishing trip would have to be a few years out in order for the acquisition of the proper equipment.

we(my parents) have 2 nice pairs of snow shoes but we would need another 2 pairs as i think 4 would be a good number for the trip. 3 would work, 2 would be too small.

the thermal pop up ice shack isnt in my budget for this year either and im not sure i can convince my brothers to invest. and we would need another sled. 

we have the rods/lures/auger/heater/lantern, but one can dream!

Quote:

we(my parents) have 2 nice pairs of snow shoes but we would need another 2 pairs

I don't have these, but a friend does and like them a lot. Snowshoes are great in deep snow, but are very tiring for long slogs, especially pulling a sled.
Traditional back-country skis can be hard to maneuver and have there own limitations.

These are a hybrid, of the two. My friend uses them to haul his pop-up ice shanty into small wilderness lakes over trails and maybe some cross country. Easier to slide/glide than lift, that snowshoe every time. Might be worth a look?
Pair of these and maybe snowshoes for back-up.

Check out the videos, pretty cool :thumbup

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whatever

i found this and there is some pretty decent things discussed. both of my brothers and i are getting together for some lake trout ice fishing on tuesday so we plan to discuss this further then!

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The guy made some good points about air quality/safety issues.

My buddy a few years back went to the UP of MI to deer hunt. He set-up camp on a 2-track and had a tarp/fire-pit set-up and was going to sleep in his pick-up cap. He had a cot and a good goose down bag and one of those Little Buddy propane heaters. They have a low-oxygen shut-off system and are advertised as safe for tents/ enclosed areas.

Problem was that between the unit shutting off and the level where the air gets bad enough to make you feel ill leaves a lot of room for error.

It got down in minus degrees, and when the wind picked up, he felt a draft, so he closed the caps window completely, figuring there was enough leaks, that air quality wouldn't be a problem.

Turned out it was. He woke in the morning with a splitting headache, sick to his stomach and missed a day of hunting.

That night he re-arranged his sleeping position so any draft from his vent window wouldn't blow directly on him like it did the night he closed the cap completely.

I don't know if the air quality would of gotten to the point his life would be in jeopardy before the unit shut-off, but mechanical things fail all the time. I think I'd error on the side of caution and make damn sure the enclosure was vented properly.

upon further discussion and a 9 hour ice fishing outing (mostly within the confines of my popup shack) with my 2 brothers, its been concluded they do not have the desire to do an ice trip. they had cabin fever after about 3 hours and lost interest in fishing before then. it didnt help that we werent catching anything, but thats part of the possibility.

they concluded after many hours of poking fun at my ideas that if i were to buy all the necessary items to even attempt at local overnight outing, that the odds would still be slim to none.

the speculation was fun while it lasted.

Problem solved.  ;) :thumbup

Your going to need a bigger shanty!!!!

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solotripper wrote on Jan 25^th, 2015 at 3:50pm:

The guy made some good points about air quality/safety issues. My buddy a few years back went to the UP of MI to deer hunt. He set-up camp on a 2-track and had a tarp/fire-pit set-up and was going to sleep in his pick-up cap. He had a cot and a good goose down bag and one of those Little Buddy propane heaters. They have a low-oxygen shut-off system and are advertised as safe for tents/ enclosed areas. Problem was that between the unit shutting off and the level where the air gets bad enough to make you feel ill leaves a lot of room for error. It got down in minus degrees, and when the wind picked up, he felt a draft, so he closed the caps window completely, figuring there was enough leaks, that air quality wouldn't be a problem. Turned out it was. He woke in the morning with a splitting headache, sick to his stomach and missed a day of hunting. That night he re-arranged his sleeping position so any draft from his vent window wouldn't blow directly on him like it did the night he closed the cap completely. I don't know if the air quality would of gotten to the point his life would be in jeopardy before the unit shut-off, but mechanical things fail all the time. I think I'd error on the side of caution and make damn sure the enclosure was vented properly.

I use one of those heaters in my mobile home when deer hunting. Wouldn't even think of using it without a functioning monoxide alarm. Remember it supposed to shut off on low oxygen; no idea if a lethal dose of monoxide would shut it down or not. Rather not have my survivors find out.

Good point GP 01 :thumbup
I think most people probably never consider that point at all. I've never read anything on the units instructions other than it has that low oxygen sensor?
I did a little on-line research and it turns out that IF the unit keeps shutting off when you try to ignite it, it's becasue you have a FAULTY low O 2 sensor.

My immediate thought was if a defect can cause it to shut off prematurely, then it would seem too me the opposite could happen?

That monoxide alarm could be a lifesaver if that ever happened.