I am planning an August trip into Saganaga Lake.  Part of the trip I wanted to explore the far eastern areas of Sag, outside of Quetico Park boundaries.  I see there is another designated park (can't come up with the name off hand) and somewhere I read in Ontario Parks info that it is an "unregulated" park, but one should obtain a permit to use it...but then I could not locate a place to get the permit and/or what it cost and what were the rules, etc.
Does anyone know more about camping in this area?

LaVerandrye Provincial Park abuts Saganaga on the NNE

if outside of the PP you would need a Crown Lands camping permit - not sure if LaV is an operating park or not.

La Verendrye is definitely a non-operating park. See the following link and contact info...   (You need to Login or Register

Thanks Pheonix!  I'll have to try that direct contact shown for LaVerendre Park.  What is a non-operating park? 

Here is a  quote from Wikipedia on LaVerendre':
The park is a "non-operating" park, meaning no fees are charged and no staff is present with only few services offered. As part of the international boundary, the portages, lakes, and waterways along the border are open to the citizens of both nations.

That sounds good; do you still think I need to get Crown Land permit too?

"That sounds good; do you still think I need to get Crown Land permit too"

yep, no such thing as a free lunch

but you could call Ontario Parks to confirm

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Scroll down and they have a Crown Land atlas that you can make maps from.

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You can zoom right in and see the Crown Land around Saganaga.

You'll be going through Northern Light Lake - an interesting lake with pictographs - with a lodge at the eastern end (Northern Light Lake Lodge). A few years ago, we entered and exited from Quetico that way. Some of that area was affected by a major forest fire a few years ago (I think it was the Ham Lake fire), not to mention that the effects of the infamous 1999 blowdown are still very evident.

Do the exceptions - spouse, own land, rent shelter, etc. - allow a non-resident to camp in green zones or does it only exempt you from a permit?

I'd really like to camp on CA side of border from Q to Grand Portage but don't think I can, as I think (??) its green zone.

Thanks ST for the Crown Lands links.  Have to say I am still confused after looking at the maps.  Guess I'll have to call someone in Canada to get more info.

Perhaps I CAN have a "free lunch" if I were to rent a tent from an Ontario outfitter.

Quote:

Perhaps I CAN have a "free lunch" if I were to rent a tent from an Ontario outfitter.

From Ontario rules link for non-residents:


Quote:

rent a camping unit (e.g., tent, trailer, etc.) from a person who conducts business in Ontario

I wonder IF that would apply to American Outfitters that do business there? Might want to talk to some of your BWCA outfitter friends?

I thought about that too...several outfitters (US) at the end of the Gunflint Trail which that rule MIGHT include.  I'll let you know what I find out.  ;)

BillConner wrote on Jan 9^th, 2015 at 2:18pm:

Do the exceptions - spouse, own land, rent shelter, etc. - allow a non-resident to camp in green zones or does it only exempt you from a permit? I'd really like to camp on CA side of border from Q to Grand Portage but don't think I can, as I think (??) its green zone.

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I don't know why they have the Green Zones. But if your not a Canadian Resident you can't even buy your way there. The land on the East side of Woodland Caribou is a good example. You can't stay anywhere along there because it's a Green Zone.

I wouldn't think even a non operating park would be a green zone and you should be able to get crown land permits at any Canadian outpost on Sag.

I think this will help explain why they have designated Green Zones.

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IC, Try calling the same number you'd use for reserving a back country permit for Q, and ask about Sag instead.

I got an odd response some years back when I was trying to see what kind of permits I needed for the Steel River PP. This might have been before the "Green Zone" plan came into being. But back then I was told since it wasn't an operating park, but it was still nesignated a park, I needed nether a park permit nor crown land permits. I explained I was from the US and not a resident too.

ST, I think Ontario Parks has perfected writing confusing rules. No idea what Green Zones are. I had always thought it was a way for keeping freeloaders out of areas that outfitters had paying customers renting cabins, i. e. Turtle River  area. Thought you had to be a fully outfitted customer. But that's just my guess.

"The purpose of Green Zones is to better
regulate the number of campers in certain
Crown land areas, to prevent crowding, and
over-use of campsites, improve the quality of
campers’ outdoor experience and, in some
cases, distribute anglers more widely to
prevent over fishing on some waters."

That came from here :   (You need to Login or Register
But it would be the same in the Rainy Lake district the Q is in.

I think that's a nice way of saying they don't want self-equipped non-residents from using these zones to access whatever or hunt.
I'm pretty sure you have to go thru an outfitter for certain types of game ( big), because that's how they control how much game is taken, especially by non-residents.

I think it's probably political/financial becasue the local outfitters want you to get some gear from them. I'm not sure how much "gear" you have to rent before you can get a "rate" on that Crown Land permit.
I did a little looking on-line and no matter the area/Green Zone, it looks about the same in that those Zones are set to "block" access to well established camping areas and "funnel" people toward access points that you have to have camp permits to get into and leave a vehicle.

It is confusing to say the least. I think I'd call the park in Atikokan and get the info first hand.

When I traveled to Opasquia, a non-operating Ont. Provincial Park, we had to purchase a crown land camping permit. Since we rented an accommodation -TENT- from an Ont. Outfitter we did not need the Crown land camping permit. If we had needed one we were told we would have to go to the proper MNR office in person to get the permit.

I have found that the interpretation of the "'Accommodation" exemption language varies depending on who you talk to. In our case Opasquia  was under WCPP's management and they confirmed that renting the  tent accommodation was a valid exemption from the Crown land camping permit which is required for non-residents in non-operating Ontario Parks.

And to clarify, if you rent gear, is the crown land permit free or do you not even need a permit?

Trying to figure out is much is CA side of Rainy River from Lake of the Woods to the Quetico is crown land.

BillConner wrote on Jan 16^th, 2015 at 12:32pm:

And to clarify, if you rent gear, is the crown land permit free or do you not even need a permit? You do not need the permit, have your receipt from the outfitter handy and I would suggest that it list the tent as rented. Other gear is not important, the accommodation "tent" is. .