Okay, a bit of a long post but I’m looking for some feedback on using weights in trolling for Walleye and trout.  I’m interested in your experience and preferences and why.  There are three weighting systems that I’m thinking about and wondering about the pros, cons and perhaps most appropriate uses of each.  I’m discounting weighting with three-way swivels because, having tried that, I’ve found it to be too finicky and apt to tangle when working so close to the water in a canoe.

Snap weights.  I have a set of the guppy weights from Off-shore Tackle.  I’ve always had a bit of difficulty utilizing them as snap weights because it is hard to keep the snaps from slipping on braided line like the Suffix 832 that I prefer.  Wrapping the line around the snap does work but makes it that much more difficult to remove when I’m reeling in with a fish on the line.  That being said, snap-weights have the advantage of easy off, easy on and you can move them further or closer to the lure depending on conditions and desired action.

In-line weights.  The Off-shore Tackle guppy weights are designed to be used as in-line as well as snap weights.  My understanding is that the main difference between in-line and snap weights is that in-lines are more subject to erratic action if the water is rough or surging since the lure typically runs so much closer to the weight.  In the past I’ve just use duo-lock snaps to connect my line to the weight and another duo-lock running from the weight to the lure.  It occurs to me that I would be better off using snap swivels instead.  Would I then also use a snap swivel to connect the line from the weight to the lure?  That would make 3 snap swivels for the rig.

The third weighting system I’m considering is the Wing-it system.    (You need to Login or Register
This seems very effective because it is so versatile.  Using the same sliding connector (which I can attach or remove without retying my line) I can use bottom bouncers or slip sinkers of any weight I choose (also without having to retie.)  While, in the end, I may not bother with bottom bouncers at all, the one thing I don’t understand is the practical difference between a sliding slip sinker such as these Wing-its, an in-line weight or for that matter, a snap weight set the same distance back from the lure.  The in-line is a little more streamlined and perhaps a little less likely to snag but would it be that much different? 

The reason I’m asking about this is because all these weights can start to add up.  If I could use one system that would work in different ways maybe I could save some weight and space in my tackle bag.  But also, if there are significant differences, when best to apply one over the other?

Thanks for indulging me.

Not being sarcastic but I can't think of a single reason to use or bring any sort of extra weight for fishing in shield lakes.  If you need to get deeper, use a bigger jig and plastic combo.  I wouldn't over think this stuff.  In 20+ years of fishing NW Ontario, the jig is still the most versatile and productive fishing system there is.

You have been indulged.

The only weight system I use are snapweights. I carry two 2oz weights and one 3oz weight plus an extra snap. That allows for any combo I may need. I don't use them unless fish are too deep for deep divers. I usually attach them 5-6' from lure. That way the fish can't use the weight for leverage to throw hooks.

Most of my fishing time is with a jig and plastic combo, but occasionally I drag a crank bait or big floating Rapala when paddling to the next campsite or fishing spot.  I've brought along a few inline snap swivel type weights in the past but never used them. Then I again most of my excursions are in early June when fish are shallow. I think I could get by and catch all I need(and some "trophies" too) with a small box of jigs and plastic shad or twister tails and maybe just a few crank/minnow baits....that's my thinking as I think about the next trip, but I always end up bringing a lot of extra stuff I never use.

Quote:

I think I could get by and catch all I need(and some "trophies" too) with a small box of jigs and plastic shad or twister tails and maybe just a few crank/minnow baits....that's my thinking as I think about the next trip, but I always end up bringing a lot of extra stuff I never use.

I met an older guy one year on a spring trip on Quetico lk and when I paddled by he and his buddy waived me over to their campsite to chat a bit.

I had my little tackle pack open on the floor of the canoe. Compared to many it's not very much tackle at all,
He laughed and asked me if I had EVER used all that stuff on a single trip. :-?
I said NO, but well you know, I "might" need it someday. ::)

He said that after 25 yrs. of trips, he and his buddy brought just jigs and plastic tails. I believe he said 1/4-3/8 jig heads in yellow/white and the tails the same color.
Said they routinely caught the Grand Slam and I don't doubt it.

One year, I did the same on a 1/4 yellow jug head and white tail.
One of these days I'm going to bring just jigs/tails and will probably wish I had done it sooner. ;) ;D
I have the stuff now, so I guess I need to justify the cost and bring it "just in case". ;) ::) ;D

I take that back.  I do bring extra weight but he is sitting in the front of the canoe, (and he smells bad) .  But, he can fish and pilot a canoe for fishing.  Don't let anyone tell you that fishing from a canoe is easy.  It isn't.  If you don't have good boat control you will waste burn a lot of time trying to stay in the zone or on top of structure.  Leave the lead at home (unless it can paddle.)

Okay, but when are you guys doing most of your fishing - June and July?  My trips are mostly from the first week in August until Labor Day. So deep is good.  I don't really "fish" that much.  By that I mean with wind and all, it really is a lot of work to stay in the zone, so its mostly trolling.  I had pretty good success last year with just jigs and tails and I plan to take some.  I have some seriously heavy ones so I can get down there and I did manage to boat an 8 pound walleye that way last season.  But when it comes to trout and big pike, I've done best trolling in-line weight.  But to be perfectly honest, I just like to try something new.  I picked up some Sutton flutter spoons and I just want to give them a try - they're so darn purty.  It seems like an elegant way to fish deep.

I am in Quetico 3x per summer (June, August, September) and my tackle box is the same.

Kerry wrote on Mar 11^th, 2015 at 6:50pm:

Okay, but when are you guys doing most of your fishing - June and July?  My trips are mostly from the first week in August until Labor Day. So deep is good. ....  I picked up some Sutton flutter spoons and I just want to give them a try - they're so darn purty.  It seems like an elegant way to fish deep.

I troll with Sutton Featherlites May thru October up there.  The only variable (other than "copper for cloudy"/"silver for sunny") will be the weight of my clip-ons.  When it's really hot the weight tends to get heavier.

I have found them to be very effective.

Jimbo   8-)

Jimbo wrote on Mar 11^th, 2015 at 7:51pm:

I have found them to be very effective.

There's always one that has to be contrary.

I generally go with my wife to Beaverhouse the end of August.  I have one of those fancy thermometer which measures water temperature every five feet.  Beaverhouse is a large deep lake.  When I checked the temperature, it was 50 degrees at 30 feet.  At 45 feet it was around 42 degrees.  So there really isn't any need to go much deeper that 35 feet as trout will come up to get a lure.  The Rapala tail dancers will go down to 30 feet when they are trolled.  If the water is really deep I have even used 6 ounce weights to get down a little deeper.  Depending on your speed a six ounce weight doesn't go much deeper than 45 feet.  Of course, how deep a lure runs also depends on how much line you have out.  I found that in 50 feet of water a six ounce weight is not getting caught on rocks.  I generally use a flutter spoon with the heavier weights.  For trout water temperature is really important.

i bring a couple weights as well as jets/dipsys up there for trolling spoons and shallow cranks. the idea was to streamline the tackle box so that i could have a bunch of shallow stuff of all different colors that i could use on any lake at any time. that way i could save money and not have as many specialized baits... that plain failed.. miserably!

when it comes down to it, i have deep diving cranks on while trolling. between tail dancers, x raps and hot n tots, i have all the depths/actions/colors covered that i could possibly want to target, and its simple. no extra stuff hanging on the line.

i do admit though, the first time seeing the rod double over while dragging a 30 ft taildancer i was a little nervous.

Westwood wrote on Mar 12^th, 2015 at 5:19am:

I generally go with my wife to Beaverhouse the end of August.  I have one of those fancy thermometer which measures water temperature every five feet.  Beaverhouse is a large deep lake.  When I checked the temperature, it was 50 degrees at 30 feet.  At 45 feet it was around 42 degrees.  So there really isn't any need to go much deeper that 35 feet as trout will come up to get a lure.  The Rapala tail dancers will go down to 30 feet when they are trolled.  If the water is really deep I have even used 6 ounce weights to get down a little deeper.  Depending on your speed a six ounce weight doesn't go much deeper than 45 feet.  Of course, how deep a lure runs also depends on how much line you have out.  I found that in 50 feet of water a six ounce weight is not getting caught on rocks.  I generally use a flutter spoon with the heavier weights.  For trout water temperature is really important.

Wow, 6 oz.  Really?  That seems like an awful lot of weight.  I also have one of those Fish Hawk's so I can read the water temps. but I've never had to use more than 3 oz to get down into trout zone.  That being said, water temperatures can really vary from year to year.  Last summer 35' was in the 50 degree range which is prime for trout (I believe 48 - 53 degrees is their ideal zone.)  But a couple of years back I remember that I had to go down to around 45'.  If lakes are in the same watershed, I haven't found much variance from one lake to another but if they're not then it can be different.
As for deep diving jerks, I do carry a few Taildancers and have had some success with Walleye but I don't like all that drag that you get with a long billed deep diving lure.  Anyway that's just me.  I just wanted to get feedback from folks who like to fish with flutter spoons on how best to utilize them.

To clarify my earlier post, by carrying two 2oz and one 3 oz weight, I can create the following. 2oz, 3oz, 4oz, 5oz, and 7oz. As Westwood pointed out, it is seldom necessary to go any deeper than 30-45'. These combos will cover that range. ;)

PhantomJug wrote on Mar 11^th, 2015 at 8:46pm:

Jimbo wrote on Mar 11th, 2015 at 7:51pm: I have found them to be very effective. There's always one that has to be contrary.

Sutton featherlites have been particularly effective for me around those Cirrus Lake haunts of YOURS, PJ. 

Maybe I'll follow you up there someday and harvest some of the spots you've given up on....

Jimbo   8-)

Jimbo wrote on Mar 11^th, 2015 at 7:51pm:

I troll with Sutton Featherlites May thru October up there.  Jimbo   8-)

Jimbo -- I googled "Sutton Featherlite Fishing Spoons" and couldn't find anything with "featherlite."  I did find reference to flutter trolling spoons. 

Puckster

Could it be one of these Sutton FLUTTER spoons and the Featherlite is a "nickname" :question

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Mine are pretty old.  "Featherlite" is what they were going by way back when.  I had to replace a some a couple years back and, yes, I noticed they are being called "flutter" spoons nowadays.  You can get them in  4 or 6 inches, silver or bronze, hammered or polished finishes, or even silver on one side & bronze on the other.  They weigh next-to-nothing and pack very efficiently (ie. I can store six or seven in a compartment that generally holds but 1 lure).

I've caught all the Big Four on these spoons.  I may occasionally put on a two oz clip-on but seldom more.  They really don't need to be trolled any deeper than 25-30 feet, even when LT are quite deep.  I've had big trout come up from 60-80 feet to hit them in 20-25 feet of water... the "flash" is that good (particularly silver on a sunny day).  Mostly I use them on lake trout when my Options # 1,2, & 3 fail to produce.  They seem to work really well when you know the lakers are hitting on Ciscoes.  I've also had big deep-water pike come up for them but then again what won't big pike hit? (Option #1 on big pike = old, rusty Schlitz can pierced by mega-hook; use 6oz sinker to counter-balance air bubbles in can).

Basically, I like them because they pack easy & are a good 2nd option, multi-species lure.

Jimbo   8-)

Well leave it to Jimbo to stir up the Hornet's nest. ;D

All that talk about the infamous Sutton Spoon, made me do a little research. Seems there is quite the controversy going on. :o

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First link explains the whys and the second is to a product that is supposedly a good imitation of the original which you can hardly get anymore. :-/ That's why Puckster and I came up empty handed on a first search..

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Those Plazma spoons look identical to what I have at home.  I  couldn't find them through Sutton when I went to replace what I lost.  Eventually I found someone selling the Sutton "flutter" spoons on E-Bay, as I recall.  They were "new" & still in a package but who knows how old they really were.

They are by far the thinnest, lightest lures in my box.

I don't give a darn what they call them.   A rose by any other name....

Jimbo   8-)

Jimbo,
You are correct 6 ounces is a lot of weight.  But if I am in 60 feet of water and I am not hitting bottom, I think I am probably placing my lure in the proper temperature zone.  Plus with a heavier weight, I can troll a little faster. 

Let me tell you, folks, when it comes to research I am the master of obsessive compulsivity (just ask my wife!)  So here's the bird's eye lowdown on Sutton spoons. 
They're made in a little shop in Naples New York where they gained a huge following in the Finger Lakes district - trout and Walleye.  The company is almost 100 years old but whoever's running it now doesn't seem to care much whether there is any stock or not. What distinguishes these lures is not only that they are paper thin (only around 1/16 oz.) but the superior quality of the silver plating and finish.  However,sometime over the last 10 years or so the company lost their plater and probably their interest in the business.  So finding Sutton flutter spoons is like finding hen's teeth.  I actually called the shop in Naples and they don't have a thing and probably won't until maybe the Fall (and even then, by the vagueness of their response to my questions, I'm guessing there won't be much.)
So then I went over to E-bay and there are some available for auction.  The prices can be reasonable or outrageous depending on God knows what.  But I managed to pick up a pretty good selection even though I paid used what they would cost new - if there were any.  I also picked up a few Miller spoons, which was a company out of Hamburg New York, whose spoons are of equal quality (that company is long gone.)
Plazma spoons are apparently garbage as are a number of other knock-offs.  The thing about Sutton and Miller spoons was the quality of the silver plate.  I'm told that nickel, which is what most of the knock offs are plated in, looks like a black blob at depth while the property of silver is such that it remains lively and attractive.  So they say.
There is one knock-off that is supposed to be decent - Mooselook Thinfish (the same company that makes Williams Wablers,) which uses precious metal plating, gold and silver.  Folks report that the finish isn't the same quality as the originals but still pretty good and pretty effective.
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So there you go, more than you ever wanted to know about Sutton spoons.
Obsessively yours,
Kerry

Another surefire laker go to favorite to OCD over is the large Storm Lightnin' Shad. Available in many holographic finishes, Lakers will swim a mile to eat 'em.  ;)

But, they are not made anymore. Discontinued. :(

Hey Kerry -- Nice job sleuthing out the Sutton story!  I hope your job involves research or analysis. 

puckster

Thanks for the in-depth research on the Sutton Kerry :thumbup

That link I posted said something about the operation being basically a one man show and the guy doesn't want to sell the business even though he's at the age he can't keep up with demand?

It also mentioned that on E-BAY they were going for big money and it appeared too some people that the owner had figured out he could make more money for making less spoons going the E-Bay route?
Who knows if that’s true or not?

Glad you mentioned the plating issue and about the Plasma and Mooselock Thinfish differences. 

I used to have a few Sutton Spoons from when you could get them on Cabela’s. Must of lost them or gave them away. Who knew they would become so rare.

Just in case someone is interested in the Mooslook "Faux" Sutton spoon. Cabelas has them on sale.

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[quote author=solotripper link=1426086493/25#25 date=1426252949] Just in case someone is interested in the Mooslook "Faux" Sutton spoon. Cabelas has them on sale.

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Actually those aren't the Sutton look-a-likes.  However, the Mooselook Thinfish are on  sale over at Kittery Trading Post (17% off - get it? ... St. Paddy's Day!  Somebody in the sales department was really working overtime on that one.)    (You need to Login or Register