So last years RABC expires on July 20 and we are coming out July 23. What do you think?

They are what $25 or something like that. My thought is without a phone call I would just get a new one, not worth the risk.

Actually, the entry date is what matters. As long as you enter before it expires, you're good. The US will accept your passport when you return.

Both sides of the border have been very relaxed lately.  My last 3 crossings were uncomfortably quick and easy, almost casual.  Is this the new border patrol?

Thanks, I know I saw this topic a while ago somewhere. OS's reply is what I wanted to verify! Cha ching! Hey $30 towards a tow that I am still on the fence about.  ;) I think I'm good to go on the Outdoors Card too. :D

Yah, if you are questioned, tell 'em OS says you're golden. ;)

Old Salt wrote on Jun 1^st, 2015 at 12:18am:

Yah, if you are questioned, tell 'em OS says you're golden. ;)

That's what I always say. (and a few 'hail Mary's')

Researching this previously, I believe it must be not expired the entire time you are there. I believe I found this on a CA website and besides, if they stopped you in 22, how do they know you didn't enter that day? If they trusted us, we wouldn't need these things.

I agree with the Chicken...092....not PJ.  Cheep insurance for the cost.  To Bill's thought...how would they know you didn't enter that day....you would have paid your camping fees and have a recipt, etc. from Ranger station when you entered.  If OS is solid on the entry date or you confirm with a phone call, then no need.  I'd venture the phone call. 

pajeff - when are you headed back from your trip?  I recall you were on the water from 7/13-24 from a previous thread? I'll be arriving in Ely the afternoon of the 25th, circa 2-3 PM.  I'm guessing you'll be on the road back to PA by then?

pd

A few years ago, I was able to enter on a RABC that would expire while I was in Canada. No problems. ;)

Seems logical if the rabc is taking the place of a visit to customs upon entry I will be good. We shall see.
pd, we probably will be on the road by then. More than likely next year will be Aug. again with 'Sam'. Maybe we can plan our walleye wing nite then, eh. 

Everyone should do what they want but I just called the Canada Border Services Agency and the agent I spoke with was quite certain and clear that it must be valid the entire time you are there.  This is second time I have verified this.  Without any prompting, the agent said that you could be stopped at any time by an agent and it must be valid, and not expired.  The border agents don't give a hoot about a provincial park permit.

I'm sure people have done it, and since I have never had to show my RABC to anyone, I could have done it, but I didn't.  Overwhelming odds that you could do a lot of trips in Quetico without ever bothering because enforcement is practically zero.  But to be legally there, after entering remotely, you must be in possession of a valid - unexpired - RABC.

If someone has some actual proof that the agent I just spoke with was giving out misinformation, please post with some source information.

Wow, thanks Bill, I can't argue with that. Ignorance can be blissful but costly. Did you try to push my logic thing?

Federal government logic? Is that like military intelligence? Don't park on the driveway and don't drive on the parkway?

Just protecting ol' DB here. Someone gets punched based on misinformation here, they'd be POed.

Well, if I took bad advice, I would be upset at myself, not the website.

Anyway, I took a look at the Canadian website,   (You need to Login or Register; to see if I was mistaken. Turns out it reads that the RABC must be valid on the date of the crossing into Canada. It is a border crossing permit. No mention is made of any need for it to be valid during the entire stay.

While I don't doubt Bill's conversation, border officers don't really deal with RABC crossings. If it were me, I would use it. It's valid and paid for.

Thanks OS, I can't seem to connect with the CBSA site but I will check it out. I'm still pissed that they took that 2nd year away!
Winning!

People can decide if they want to rely in your interpretation if what it says (and dies not say) in a web site or my report of talkingvto a border agent in the office that issues the RABC - on two separate occasions. The fact is they don't know when you crossed the border and the Q permit is not proof of when you crossed the border.

Please prive me wrong with proof, not wishes and conjecture.

There's nothing personal here, I just believe in following the laws and hope all will.

Please calk the RABC office. They are wonderfully polite and understood exactly what I was asking, seemed very familiar with the subject and inquiry, and could not be talked out of it nor did they waiver at all. They didn't even try to hurry and would have continued to discuss it. Yesterday and several years ago as well.

True that winning the lottery seems more likely than being asked to show your RABC but I wouldn't go without a valid one. And I'm so cautious I wouldn't even plan on cutting it close in case I was weather delayed leaving. But that's me.

By reading the CBSA site I would agree with OS. After calling I feel I will have to send for a new one. I was convinced by the mention of a $1,000 fine! Thanks Bill :'(

Hmm? Is it my bad if I leave my Passport in my car while in Q if I crossed at Ft Frances?

Jim J Solo wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2015 at 4:55pm:

Hmm? Is it my bad if I leave my Passport in my car while in Q if I crossed at Ft Frances?

If you mean you cross the border at Ft Frances and put in from CA side and plan to exit CA side?  Not a problem as far as I can tell.  However should your plan to exit on CA side change - like a serious medical emergency that requires you to be evaced somewhere - you might wish you had the passport with you.  (That is more the case if you enter on a RABC imho.)  On the other hand, I could see my passport being left at some site while I with a stroke or heart attack or some such malady am whisked away by air to Atikokan (or Thunder Bay?) for medical attention, and then its really hard to get.  It's one of those cases where I wish I had a redundant WHTI document or two.

chaga wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2015 at 1:03pm:

By reading the CBSA site I would agree with OS. After calling I feel I will have to send for a new one. I was convinced by the mention of a $1,000 fine! Thanks Bill :'(

It would appear the people who administer and enforce the regulations are at least slightly better at their job then the people who do their websites.  I think the problem at least partially lies in the attempts to digest and summarize the regulations - both for the Q and BWCA traveler but also more broadly - for the internet.  I wish they would publish the actual regulations as well.  (I've discovered that for a lot of BWCA regulations, they are still just in hardcopy and not stored electronically so not widely available.)

PS - and the $1000 wouldn't be so bad but I think you can also never return to Canada!  Who among us wants to risk never being able to return to the Quetico?  A fate worse than death.  I wonder if it would prevent my sons from taking my ashes there?

If your ashes are scattered in Q, who is going to renew the permits and pay the fees for you to be there?

Old Salt wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2015 at 5:48pm:

If your ashes are scattered in Q, who is going to renew the permits and pay the fees for you to be there?

I'll be hiding in a Nalgene bottle and have Portage Dog sneak me in. PD, I'll pm you the spot but you have a pretty good idea where.  :) 

Old Salt wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2015 at 5:48pm:

If your ashes are scattered in Q, who is going to renew the permits and pay the fees for you to be there?

I consider it immigration without being able to parlez vous Québécois. They can take my ashes to court though if they'd like.

Pajeff,

I'll be your Huckleberry!  Assuming, of course I (hopefully) outlast you!  I dropped some of my dad's ashes along the falls from Sucker to Basswood in '09.  He used to fish up in some lakes with an old friend outside the park, but I have no clue where that was.  I got to go along once when young.  It would have been Crown Land. 

As to the passport question, I have one of the Passport Cards that I carry with on Q trips.  Of course, in an incapcitated state, it would not likey find it's way with me if medevac'd out.

pd