Apparently there is a POI in the area of Crooked to Brent lake areas, wanted by Canadian and U.S. Authorities. This person is reported to have scraggly red hair and beard and is barefoot. All contact is to be avoided. Any sighting should be reported ASAP to proper authorities. It is believed that he has a compass and no canoe or any provisions. Therefore he may be desperate and prone to raiding campers. More information from outfitters.

Sounds like Stumpy is roaming about again....

Jimbo   8-)

That's what I thought. 8-)

I did a little Google search and found myself reading posts on the BWCA site.Seems like this incident is causing a lot of controversy and some rancor among the members.

Official report says if anyone sees a guy fitting that description they should contact park authorities or the Mounties.

Some links speculate he’s wanted for questioning in a reservation murder, other say he’s someone known to wander the woods living off the land and is basically harmless BUT might raid camps for food in a pinch.

Some of the posters think the authorities are being too vague and that either he’s a threat and they should say so and start a serious manhunt OR stop scaring people without giving a good reason?

I wouldn't want to see someone unfairly maligned just because he’s some guy wanting to play Survivor man, but if a guy like that wanders into your camp when you have the wife or kids along, you’d be a little on edge IF you have any sense of self-awareness/preservation.

I had a guy come into my one-person camp once in Northern MI on a spring trout fishing trip. I was down a 2-track that took 4 wheel drive to get into river side camp and was having dinner and a few beers when this guy steps out of the brush and asks me “Where am I”?

I tell him and ask if he wants some coffee, maybe a bite to eat? As he walks closer I see a big hunting knife on his hip. I decide then that he should see the .357 Mag I had under my jacket.

He sees the pistol, said he had changed his mind about coffee /food and that he was just going back to his car, which he said was back up the trail and off a fork in the road.

He went from not knowing where he was at, being thirsty/hungry to knowing exactly where he was parked.

I left next day and took that fork out to the main trail. He was sitting in an old beater that was filled with garbage bags/fast food garbage.

I stopped at park headquarters and told the ranger, He said he knew who I was talking about. He was a homeless guy from the area who they had warned about camping on state land without a free camp permit and about approaching strangers.

I have NO idea if the guy meant me any harm, but it could of went bad real quick IF he did something that made me feel my life was in danger.

Same thing in this situation. A guy like that you can’t just ignore or assume means you know harm.

I would think if he’s wanted by the Mounties they should look at banning travel in that area until they find the guy rather than let paddlers/ especially families or  lone/tandem females go in, no matter how minimal the danger might be.

If the authorities had any significant concern about this, they'd have the FBI and not the Park Service asking questions.  It does make for some interesting talk.  Hopefully the guy will "find himself".
-YB

Yellowbird wrote on Jul 29^th, 2015 at 4:58pm:

If the authorities had any significant concern about this, they'd have the FBI and not the Park Service asking questions.  It does make for some interesting talk.  Hopefully the guy will "find himself". -YB

Never heard of crosstraining?

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The stakes just got raised. Now Quetico has closed a bunch of lakes in SW part to travel and camping. Check with Park if you're planning to be in that area.

Jimbo wrote on Jul 29^th, 2015 at 3:53pm:

Sounds like Stumpy is roaming about again...

Wow, I thought this was a joke at first.

I normally wouldn't think much of it, but if they're closing sections of the Park, that makes me wonder what they really want this guy for. Maybe he's more dangerous than they're letting on.

Old Salt wrote on Jul 29^th, 2015 at 5:28pm:

Yellowbird wrote on Jul 29th, 2015 at 4:58pm: If the authorities had any significant concern about this, they'd have the FBI and not the Park Service asking questions.  It does make for some interesting talk.  Hopefully the guy will "find himself". -YB Never heard of crosstraining?

My point was if this guy was wanted or was considered dangerous, the park officials would call in law enforcement, which they apparently now have (but why, for border crossing?).  I see now that a BWCA board member reports that he has some mental issues.
If I were going into that area today, I would have likely paid for the ride from Crane Lake and would be pretty ticked about having to divert for somebody who is simply viewed as "unstable", and is wanted for illegal border crossing.  I'd likely take my chances with the "no travel ordinance" and simply keep a heads up awareness.  I can't see someone in this person's position as being a risk to a healthy party of 2 or 4 people.
-YB

I would feel the same way, YB. Just not sure if Park would process entry permit.

Quote:

I can't see someone in this person's position as being a risk to a healthy party of 2 or 4 people.

I have to respectfully disagree with that YB :-?
IF he was thinking clearly he wouldn’t come at 2-4 people and if he did in a straight forward fashion then 2-4 guys depending on the guys could probably walk away from the encounter.

But the guy "allegedly" has mental issues. Those kinds of people often have physical strength and the ability to endure pain far more than an average person.
If he had a knife or even a sharpened stick or rock for that matter he could come out of the brush or at night and before anyone knew what was happening kill or seriously injure someone or maybe everyone.

It happens all the time in civilized areas. How many families have been murdered by a family member often a young man who killed everyone with a knife / club before anyone could react?

IF they came to the decision they needed to close certain areas there must be a valid reason that they might now want to share for fear of panicking people?

One single minded, determined individual with no regard for others and especially themselves is more than capable of taking out a small group of adults who don't have that mentality themselves.

There's a reason you see so many cops swarm and take-down violent/mental patients, they know from past experiences gone wrong that they're more of a danger than they appear to the untrained eye.
He might just be some hippy type who living out a wild adventure but nowadays you can’t assume the best case scenario, you have to assume the worst and hope you’re wrong.

Closed lakes in SW Quetico??? Where is that list published?  I'm taking a small group to Birch and Carp starting the 6th and although there is probably not much to worry about, seeing someone with that description approaching our camp will definitely set a couple of my group on edge.  :-?

I've told this story before...my dad's sister begged my dad to take my cousin (her son) on a canoe trip because she thought it would be "good for him" (the son).  The son was probably in his late 20's and had suffered all his life with mild schizophrenia and bi-polar disorder.  They took off into the BWCA and traveled two or three days when my cousin refused to go another step further ahead; my dad for his part refused to turn around.  They sat at an impasse for another day.  Then Dad went on and cousin proceeded to "hitch hike" out by walking and apparently begging rides from other campers to Echo Trail and then hitch hiked out of there back to our house.
I was scheduled to meet them to pick up on the Echo Trail the next day.  Cousin decided it would be most proper of him to accompany me.  After hearing the story and knowing a bit about my Dad I suggested he would be better off just disappearing on his way...away.  He came with me anyway and we met Dad on a very hot buggy day after he had done "miles" of portaging by himself and carrying everything since cousin had only taken his own personal pack with him.
It ended up that he was refused a ride in the car and we left him standing in the middle of Echo Trail having to hitch hike out a second time.  Apparently he managed as he finally made his way back home to Colorado.

I bet he was a topic of lengthy discussion for any of the campers who happened upon him or helped him out.  ;)

Here is my hunch. The closure is so LEO can go in and extract him. They want innocents to not get in the way. Once they remove him, the lakes will be reopened.

Moosetrack posted list on bwca site.

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ST, of course I would be playing the odds in such a scenario as my previous posting.  Odds are that person described thus far has a non-violent disposition.  A party of 2 or 4 would immediately recognize a need to help with or a need to separate from the encounter.  This fellow being in the woods for more than 5 days now trying to get along on a diet of blueberries is going to be feeling a bit depleted.
All said, I agree with OS that it would be easier to spot and extract this person without the presence of others in the area.
-YB

Old Salt wrote on Jul 29^th, 2015 at 11:09pm:

The closure is so LEO can go in and extract him.

I wonder how long this will drag on for. I'd imagine a guy traveling on foot without a canoe, with a decent skill set, could probably stay hidden for just about as long as he wants to. Of course, this guy probably has no idea he's the subject of a search, so he may not be thinking that way (or even very clearly).

I'm guessing his RABC expired in the middle of his trip.

There are weird people everywhere you go.  Walk through any downtown area and you will see people who look very scary and some of them are scary.  Risk is how you perceive it.  All things considered, I think a warning would be sufficient based on the facts as I know them.  But if the facts are different, my response would be different.

Westwood wrote on Jul 30^th, 2015 at 2:07pm:

There are weird people everywhere you go.  .

That's for sure.  Just check out the Saturday night crowd at the QJ dinner during Copia.  Wouldn't ever want to run into any of THEM in the woods!

Hmmmmm... come to think of it, that's EXACTLY where I met most of those strangelings.

Jimbo   8-)

P.S.  Perhaps the poet Robert Owen had it right when he said:

“All the world is queer save thee and me... and even thou art a little queer.”

― Robert Owen

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Quote:

P.S.  Perhaps the poet Robert Owen had it right when he said: “All the world is queer save thee and me... and even thou art a little queer.” ― Robert Owen

THAT famous line takes on a WHOLE different meaning nowadays doesn't it. :(

"I can't see someone in this person's position as being a risk to a healthy party of 2 or 4 people."

depends on how you define risk I guess - I could see some nutcase sneaking into a camp at night and stealing your canoe and food bag - that alone would be really unpleasant if it was your only canoe and you were in the middle of Q.  hell if it was me (It's not, me, is it?) I'd steal all your canoes so you couldn't go for help, and I'd be more mobile.

Mad Matt,
I knew it couldn't be you 'cause you wouldn't stay in one area for that long.

Looks like the guy was found and taken into custody. All lakes reopened.

I swear this the weirdest story I've ever heard. There was one a few years back that was still in the news lately. I understood that one more when it first appeared.

So does anyone have a link to a reputable news report detailing the complete incident from beginning to end?

You could try the Ely Echo newspaper or Timberjay newspaper in Tower, MN.

What incident?

From what I've read the guy was shoeless. Er not. Er homeless, er a survivalist er…….

What's odd is closing that area of the park? There but for the grace of God go I.

I couldn't find anything about the "incident" at all in those two newspapers IC linked me too?

It seem a little strange that there isn't more news about this considering they shut an area down over it?

I talked to Q-Dave last night about another issue and before we ended our conversation, he asked me what I knew about the guy running around the woods in the Crooked Lake area? He heard about in Atikokan. He said the reports he heard said the guy was bothering paddlers and was acting "strange" :-/

I told him just what I read on the BWCA forum and people here had talked about. I said that it was my understanding they found the guy and brought him out, so it's kinda weird they're isn't more info about what exactly happened and who the guy is?

Perhaps Q doesn't feel a need to satisfy curiosity. The guy does have rights.

. It would seem to me that if the park thought the situation was serious enough at the time they needed to close down part of the park, and get the guy out of there, then at least issuing a brief statement isn’t going to violate they guy’s rights if worded properly. That’s why they use the word “allegedly” in reports

Curiosity went out the window when they closed the park and went in after him. Then it becomes the public's right to know

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solotripper wrote on Aug 6^th, 2015 at 6:08pm:

. It would seem to me that if the park thought the situation was serious enough at the time they needed to close down part of the park, and get the guy out of there, then at least issuing a brief statement isn’t going to violate they guy’s rights if worded properly. That’s why they use the word “allegedly” in reports Curiosity went out the window when they closed the park and went in after him. Then it becomes the public's right to know

Really?? Ontario, Canada owes no explanation to US citizens.

Old Salt wrote on Aug 6^th, 2015 at 8:01pm:

solotripper wrote on Aug 6th, 2015 at 6:08pm: . It would seem to me that if the park thought the situation was serious enough at the time they needed to close down part of the park, and get the guy out of there, then at least issuing a brief statement isn’t going to violate they guy’s rights if worded properly. That’s why they use the word “allegedly” in reports Curiosity went out the window when they closed the park and went in after him. Then it becomes the public's right to know Really?? Ontario, Canada owes no explanation to US citizens.

They do when the guy is an American, came in thru the BWCA and they shut down areas that American paddlers use, possibly disrupting people plans and maybe costing outfitters money. American paddlers and outfitters put a lot of money into the Ontario provincial park coffers. The OPP and Quetico park official might not have any legal responsibility to give a more detailed explanation, but you’d think they’d want to put people’s mind at ease about this incident.

On the BWCA site a guy posted that he and his son had ran into the guy and gave him some food and shoes. He had zero in gear with him and told them he had come in with a big bag of pot. So I think as paying visitor’s to the park paddlers have a right to know if this guy was just a pot head wanna-be “extreme survivalist”, or someone with legitimate mental issues that could make him a danger to others under the right circumstances.

IF he was just a stoner in over his head, he probably learned his lesson and that will be the end of this.

IF he has mental issues and doesn't get the proper care, he might try it again. With all the incidents involving people that everyone swore were harmless until they went off; I don’t think it’s too much to ask the authorities to tell the paddling public exactly what happened.

Here's something recent:
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I hope that someone gives this guy a good mental health evaluation to see if he has issues other than pot related that would possibly make him a danger to himself or others?

I get testing your mettle in the wilderness, but begging food and supplies doesn't sound like the guy had a clue to what he would be facing.

You get to the point you have to rely on the kindness of strangers, it's time to pack it in and re-think your idea and the skill set's you need to do it.

I just spoke with my brother about this.  He was troubled at the news (he was in ID fighting fires the past 3 weeks)  Aaron spent 4 nights in my brothers garage in mid July.  He is smart albeit, quirky.  He would work for food/weed/beer but really had no plans or directions.  He can read and speak intelligently.  He eats only uncooked, raw, natural food and knows his way around the woods.  He has no family or relatives (that would claim him anyway.)  He's been living out of a tent and panhandling all summer in Ely.  Yes, probably mental health issues (like all of us).  Needy guy who got a raw deal somewhere along the line.  I doubt he woke up one morning and said; "Hey, I think I'll be a homeless vagrant and wander the wilderness with no shoes for the rest of my life."  Then again, maybe he did . . .  .

Aaron would also visit my mothers church and attend the service and then head to the basement afterwards for food and fellowship.  He's a decent guy just in need.  Anyone else want to crucify him???

Quote:

Anyone else want to crucify him???

I don’t see anyone crucifying the guy? More trying to understand the why’s of what he did?

You know the guy personally and that gives you insight that someone that is a complete stranger wouldn't have. IF you didn't know him and he materialized out of the bush at your campsite when you had your KIDS with you, are you telling me you wouldn't have the least bit of concern about his possibly being a danger to your kids?

I don’t believe a good Father like you or anyone that has vulnerable people in their paddling group would be out of line viewing someone like that with a certain level of caution until you could determine otherwise.

He might be ALL the things you mentioned, but IF he really knows his way around the woods, then he wouldn't be bumming food or gear from paddlers, he would be living off the land and making his own fishhooks from materials at hand like the first people did.

I agree we ALL have mental issues, but when you’re existence/well-being becomes dependent on the kindness of strangers, you need help and I don’t mean a meal and a place to sleep.

The guy has obviously lost his way and maybe a good mental evaluation would determine IF he has some problems that require medication to fix? IF not, then maybe getting that helping hand from people and a little “guidance” would be enough to turn his life around?

I've known/know plenty of people like this from the hippy/druggy 60’s and most don’t get better on their own, without some sort of intervention, either medical/ social or spiritual, they get so far down they can’t get back up.

I'm just catching up on the wrap up to this story since I was kind of off the grid while it was developing.  There are two things that really confuse me about the situation.  (1)  How the hell did he move such large distances in the Q without a canoe, especially barefoot?  The land between the lakes is tough traveling.  (2) Why did they close the lakes when he wasn't suspected of being dangerous?  I can understand trying to find him, and he definitely committed a border violation so there is even a reason to take him into custody (though I hope they don't charge him with anything), but the reaction did seem like overkill.

solotripper wrote on Aug 8^th, 2015 at 3:09pm:

I don’t see anyone crucifying the guy? More trying to understand the why’s of what he did? You know the guy personally and that gives you insight that someone that is a complete stranger wouldn't have. IF you didn't know him and he materialized out of the bush at your campsite when you had your KIDS with you, are you telling me you wouldn't have the least bit of concern about his possibly being a danger to your kids? I don’t believe a good Father like you . . . .

First off, I don't know him personally.  My family has had multiple interactions with him in Ely this summer so this is my source.  He's been in town all summer and has been harmless - never threatening or intimidating - the police and everyone else knew/know this. 

Secondly, personal concern?  Not really.  We're used to homeless strangers in our house all the time.  Living between 3 reservations gives us plenty of opportunity to 'love our neighbor'.  Look, I get what you're saying but like Aaron, you are making assumptions about me too.  Not all of us share your level of human anthropology.  While you demand your 'right to know' I could not care less of the why. 

We're all beggars helping other beggars find food on this planet.  Life is hard enough.

Good father?  Hardly.  I haven't done a single good thing my entire life.

Quote:

Good father?  Hardly.  I haven't done a single good thing my entire life.

As a fellow "beggar", I think your selling yourself way to short with that statement. I see your pics with those great looking kids of yours as testament that you've done something good, whether your realize it or not.
“Loving your neighbor” isn't something to downplay either.

Me wanting to know the “why’ isn't out of morbid curiosity or wanting to feel superior to someone.
I don’t see how you can help someone that obviously needs some kind of assistance, other than short term unless you know how they got to that place in their life?

The story of the prodigal son is 2000 years old.  No explanation was given for the "why" of it then.  So it is today hard to figure.  It just is.  We have a daughter the same age as this "person of interest" and I tell you, some of the stuff she dumps in our lap is no less interesting.  With each crisis comes our love and support.  Maybe one day she will come to her senses, maybe not. But in the mean time, it will be poor judgment to bend to her every drama.  The first question is whether this guy is a prodigal.  If so, let him alone.  I have no reason to believe he isn't much different from the Chris McCandless type.
-YB

From an elder brother, well said YB.

PhantomJug wrote on Aug 14^th, 2015 at 2:08am:

From an elder brother, well said YB.

Wait a minute, I thought I was older. Mom always liked you best...

Quote:

The first question is whether this guy is a prodigal.  If so, let him alone.

How to anyone determine if someone is just a "prodigal" or has mental health or substance abuse issues, maybe both?
Wouldn’t it be a shame if someone had serious issues and didn’t at least get some professional counseling because people thought he was just a “prodigal/Black Sheep”?

The guy allegedly" told that father and son team that he had brought in a big bag of pot with him? As a child of the 60"s, I can tell you from experience that the pot we smoked back then compared to the potent stuff you see now is like comparing 3.2 beer to Malt Liquor.
I have guys/gals like that in my family/social circle.
Some were just prodigals/Black Sheep that were trying to find their own way; others were lost because they had mental health/substance abuse issues.
Once most of them dealt with that, they might still have been prodigals but their minds were not clouded by illness/drugs.

The fact as it was related that he had a large bag of pot with him is why I believe from my personal experience that it could be more than just a young person finding himself.

I did some crazy things when I was younger, but I never got to the point I was depending on others for subsistence. That doesn't sound like someone who has a clear/healthy mind to me.

I any case I wish the guy well and hope MY concerns are just that, my views from my own experience with family/friends that did stuff like that and had issues that needed professional treatment to overcome.

ST, I think that as long as you continue to categorize vs. identify with people you consider different, strange, wrong or weird, you probably won't get what we're talking about.  Like I said before, I hear what your saying but I'm not sure you can hear what we are saying.

PhantomJug wrote on Aug 14^th, 2015 at 5:01pm:

ST, I think that as long as you continue to categorize vs. identify with people you consider different, strange, wrong or weird, you probably won't get what we're talking about.  Like I said before, I hear what your saying but I'm not sure you can hear what we are saying.

I don’t think I’m categorizing the guy at all other than that I would think most people would consider that behavior “suspect” at the very least. I can “identify” with him, because like many people I did somethings that others thought weird at the time, the difference being I didn't need others to help me take care of myself and wasn't under the influence of ANY substance.

Forget the different/strange/wrong/ weirdness issues OR the he's okay those are purely speculative on everyone part.

Look at the facts. He did break the law as trivial as that may or may not be depending on your viewpoint? He either knowingly did it, or he didn't realize he did it? Both could be signs of issues that MIGHT need addressing? He got in way over his head in the woods, that may or may not be a sign of more serious issues?.

I look at  these type situations this way. Let’s say MY concerns are valid and the guy gets persuaded to at least talk to a professional who deals with issues like this all the time. Best case scenario he gets a clean bill of “health” and that entire helping neighbor/ brother’s keeper thing is helping him cope and find his way.

Worst case scenario, he has mental health issues/substance abuse problems and they never get properly addressed and fixed.  That means that all his well-meaning friends/brother keepers end up being part of the problem and not the solution.

By helping him out of the goodness of their hearts without ruling out those issues I mentioned, they end up in the long run being enablers who allow him to survive but not really prosper.

It’s obvious we see this much differently. I really hope I’m all wrong on this and would be more than glad if that proved to be the case.

La la la la la la...

Same song second verse...

Quote:

I really hope I’m all wrong on this and would be more than glad if that proved to be the case.

I can't prove you're wrong anymore than I can prove I'm right.  We are treading into the realm of the human condition and a view of anthropology that I believe only a few understand or recognize.  It's not easy and I've been where you are not to long ago.  If one can't look into the face of Aaron or the guy with the "will work for food" sign at the corner of Wal-Mart and not see yourself, . . . well, we will continue to talk past each other.  If you think we are capable of free will and choosing our own destiny, . . . . well, good luck with that.

Old Salt wrote on Aug 14^th, 2015 at 9:14pm:

La la la la la la... Same song second verse...

THAT’S the best you've got? You have any idea of how many people you can  find living under the overpasses  20 minutes from my house in Detroit  who ALL started as people that were just a little different and by the time family/friends realized they had mental health or drug issues or both it was too late to help them/

Maybe someone acting like that is normal in your neck of the woods, but around here the Court would after detaining him put him in 24 hr. administrative lock-up and have his mental state examined before they would take any legal action.

For a guy who works in a world class medical facility you take POTENTIAL mental health and drug issues or both awfully flippant.

You think what you want. I think my concerns are a valid as yours are naive.

Either way, the discussion for me is over. Best of luck to the kid, he’ll need it.

You've made my (our) point ST.  It's Law vs. Gospel / Glory vs. Cross.  You want law and glory.  I want gospel and cross.

solotripper wrote on Aug 14^th, 2015 at 9:58pm:

Old Salt wrote on Aug 14th, 2015 at 9:14pm: La la la la la la... Same song second verse... THAT’S the best you've got? You have any idea of how many people you can  find living under the overpasses  20 minutes from my house in Detroit  who ALL started as people that were just a little different and by the time family/friends realized they had mental health or drug issues or both it was too late to help them/ Maybe someone acting like that is normal in your neck of the woods, but around here the Court would after detaining him put him in 24 hr. administrative lock-up and have his mental state examined before they would take any legal action. For a guy who works in a world class medical facility you take POTENTIAL mental health and drug issues or both awfully flippant. You think what you want. I think my concerns are a valid as yours are naive. Either way, the discussion for me is over. Best of luck to the kid, he’ll need it.

Allow me to clarify. ST, you're the one who turned the course of this thread into trying to solve all of society's problems. Nobody else wants to go there but you have insisted on it with your sermonizing. I opted out of BTC, due to the cat fight it became. You have turned this thread into a BTC topic. As for drawing the conclusion that I have a flippant attitude, it's obvious we have never met. I'm not sure why you have the last word for everything and everyone. In my world, it's obsessive compulsive. Nuff said.

..'.Mastertangl... '  is back? ...   kinda miss him  ,  but not his insecurities and his love of challenging any one to a duel over any challenge to his ego ...   :- :P

:(  Seems to me that whenever any   one,  two,  or three people ,    take on the burden of keeping the conversation here going ,  it resembles that old saying  :   "Guests, like fish, begin to smell after three days".
    I'm wrong often (just ask my wife),  but it SEEMS  that many of the folks that I eagerly "tuned in " to learn from two - three years ago have decided to go on sabbatical. 
    It is not their job to entertain , or teach anyone jackpoop.     However, when one or two folks try to maintain the interest of folks who long ago decided to" head to the woods" to find solace and to "be their own man" , it can start to get "old" after a couple or three seasons.
   " Dead air " is ,no doubt, not any thing any of us want to happen here ,but a blabbermouth cabin mate , has more than once generated murderous and disdainful sentiments
     I wish I had something good to add to the conversation , but I haven't been on a trip for a couple of years now since my physical prowess has eroded after  I got hurt  ,and I don't feel I can add much.
      How about You All? WE gona let this thing just fade away?
      Please excuse me if I'm out  of line...   

I love any honest conversation about humanity and our condition and I think that's why TV shows such as Breaking Bad and Friday Night Lights resonate with so many people.  We see ourselves in nearly every character and the story of Aaron in this instance, is no different.  Categorizing people is never helpful or constructive.  I recognize the fact that we all have this terrible habit of self justification (Well, at least I'm not like that guy) or righteous indignation (He broke the law and he needs to pay) all the while not seeing the plank in our own eye.  That's why I say I've never done a good thing in my entire life.  For those of us who are parents, if you are honest with yourself, you spend most of your time telling your kids not to do things that you continue to do.  ("Don't smoke."  "But Papa, you had a cigar in Quetico last week." Or, "Don't drink."  But Papa, you have a scotch collection . . .")

The American pastime used to be baseball but I'm of the opinion that it's denial these days.  If you think humanity can and should be on an upward trajectory you will never be able to convey compassion.  On the other hand, if you can see yourself in other people and recognize your own inability to "get better", well, then you're on the right path - IMHO.

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