Consumers Reports in the July 2016 issue at 40 discusses insect repellents and in the August 2016 issue at 25 discusses permethrin.  The top rated repellent was Sawyer Picaridin which scored 96, Ben's 30% Deet Tick & Insect Wilderness Formula scored 93.  It rates 16 brands in the three page article.

They tested different shirts which were treated with permethrin and had different results.  The report found that permethrin helped to reduce bites and did kill some mosquitoes.  ". . .Plus, none of the treated shirts we tested were as effective against bites as an ordinary shirt sprayed with deet.  And it's worth noting: The shirts don't eliminate the need for using repellent on your skin or untreated clothing.  In fact, the manufacturers stress the important of wearing the clothing along with a tropical repellent.  The August report is also 3 pages.

Just thought the group might find the articles interesting.

I'm a big fan of using a Permethrin clothing soak on ALL my tripping clothes. I use a kit that is made for military/aid workers in foreign countries. I also cut the recommended dosage in half and it still works good.

There right about using something on your exposed skin becasue the insects are going to find a way to bite you if they can.

I have DEET it's 100% a surplus military bottle that I bring as a FAIL SAFE but so far I've never needed it.

ALL my outdoor clothes are synthetic. DEET and synthetics don't get along at all. Permethrin doesn't effect synthetic or at least I've never noticed it.

In my observations Permethrin was more than decent on mosquitos and since it kills on contact, the skeeter needs to land not just hover around you.

Where it really shines is with the ticks. A tick gets on your sock/pant/shirt and next thing you see is it falling dead on the ground. I'd take an occasional skeet bite anyday over those damn ticks.

I recommended to anyone trying that clothing soak even if you just do one set of clothes and do a little field test of your own before committing to it.

I also think a person's individual body chemistry (scent) has a lot to do with it. Some people just seem to attract bugs more than others.

A treated outfit will last thru multiple washings, basically a whole outdoor season. The convenience of that and the cost savings with a one time application is something to consider too.

in addition to permethrin, last 3 years i've used sawyer picaridin and liked it. the small pen sized spray dispensers fit nice in a pfd pocket.  i recall reading somewhere that whatever brand you're using it must be at least 20% product to be effective (pretty sure that's right) and there are other brands out there that use less than 20%.

Zski brought up a good point.
Permethrin is for treating FABRIC not to be used DIRECTLY on the skin.

Picaridin is like DEET meant to be put on skin but is MUCH safer.

I had some SAWYER bug spray I carry in little travel size plastic pump bottle when I need bug dope on exposed skin. It works well and after reading about Picaridin, I read the label and sure enough I had been using it and didn't realize it. I just knew it was DEET free.

Ditto.  I use picaridin and find it quite effective against mosquitoes.  I also spray clothing with permethrin.  Whether that helps or not, I don't know, but I don't recall getting bitten through my shirt.

solotripper wrote on Jul 11^th, 2016 at 5:17pm:

Picaridin is like DEET meant to be put on skin but is MUCH safer.

ST; you mentioned DEET not playing nice with synthetics. how about Picaridin? I know if I want to really stick to the handle on my fishing reel I just leave a little DEET on those fingers. 

I didn't notice any DEET like effects on my fishing rod handle but then I wear half finger paddling gloves to avoid getting blisters with my double paddle.

I'd say trying it out IF that's a concern, but offhand I'd say it isn't from the way my synthetic gloves feel?

All over the packaging it says "will not harm gear"
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i think they're right.  no damaged gear here.

I used the Sawyer picardin repellent on a backpacking trip this past weekend, and it worked well.  I still used Ultrathon (with det) on my Quetico trip in July, in addition to permethrin on clothing.  I think that the key is permethrin.  It works very well, and if you don't leave too much skin exposed, then either deet or picardin will work, but picardin does seem less harsh and didn't affect my gear. 

I'm a big fan of Permethrin but as you know that is ONLY for gear, not your skin.

Sawyer Picaridin seems to be a good product for that but it's ALWAYS nice to have some more options.

I ran across this AMERICAN MADE product and plan on giving it a try. If nothing else I'll be able to stand smelling MYSELF after a few days in the Q.  ;) ;D ;D

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"This 8 ounce bottle is perfect to take hiking, fishing, camping, golfing, or any other outdoor activity. Full ingredient list: lemongrass oil, water, vanilla, castor oil, soya lecithin, lemon, vitamin E."

This what the Bug Soother folks list as ingredients.  Wonder if bears are fond of the smell of Lemongrass oil?

I know DEET is not healthy and it takes the paint off my crankbaits, but I have still not found anything that works as well.

Does the permethrin just kill the bugs or does it repel them as well?  I thought it was mostly for ticks?

Regards,

MossBack

MossBack wrote on Apr 4^th, 2017 at 7:47pm:

Does the permethrin just kill the bugs or does it repel them as well?  I thought it was mostly for ticks?

It deters mosquitoes, but doesn't kill them.  On the first trip using permethrin treated clothing, I remember one evening as I was sitting and watching the sunset on Murdock Lake (Quetico) and noticing I was surrounded by mosquitoes.  Funny thing is I felt that I was sitting inside a protective bubble and the mosquitoes where out there just beyond arm's reach. 

But it is not a complete shield.  I'll still add a bit of deet around face, neck and hands on portage where the skeets are so thick you have to strain them with your teeth to have an unobstructed breath.

dd

I recently had a dog die from Lyme disease and she had never been off our farm, except to the  vet.  This means she contracted it from a tick in our own woods.  This gives me no comfort.  I have used the Sawyer brand of permethrin that ST mentioned as a spray for Carhartt bibs and it works very well.  The local turkey hunters use it in the Spring when the ticks are in a juvenile state and so damn small and translucent you can barely see them.

OOPPS.....I like canoes and The Quetico. (proper required content)

MossBack

Quote:

Wonder if bears are fond of the smell of Lemongrass oil?

  I wonder that myself? I'm thinking since it's all natural that critters wouldn't be as attracted to it like say BACON or FISH frying, but maybe not. ;)

I'm going to get some to check it out and will report what I find in a gear report sometime in the future.

I think a CLEAN camp is the best Bear preventer but like anything else clean is in the eye/nose of the beholder.

ST, I would guess you are correct.  You mentioned fish frying, there have been many times my clothes ended up smelling like what was cooked for dinner that night, especially fish.  Yet I have never bothered to leave them outside. I may get a surprise some night.

MB

MossBack wrote on Apr 5^th, 2017 at 4:19am:

ST, I would guess you are correct.  You mentioned fish frying, there have been many times my clothes ended up smelling like what was cooked for dinner that night, especially fish.  Yet I have never bothered to leave them outside. I may get a surprise some night. MB

Quetico Dave likes to tell the story of the two guys he rented a brand new 4 person Eureka tent and were just base camping on the East end of Q-Lake.

They were "concerned" about bears so Dave gave them the usual safety speech.

First night in they're playing cribbage sometime after dark and think they hear noise/growl outside of tent?

Next thing they know a bear clawed the tent and stuck it's head in! The screamed and the bear took off. Stayed up rest of the night around big fire and came out the next day.

When the got to QD's they were still pretty freaked out and was telling him how they couldn't understand why the bear did that because they had done everything he told them too?

Just about then Dave notices a piece of GULP worm sticking out of one guy's shirt pocket. Turns out he had stuck the open packet in shirt and forgot about it.  ;) ;D ;D

That was the last time he heard from them.

Just make sure your NOT wearing those fishy smelling pants IF old Yogi drops in for a late night snack.  :'( ;D ;D

solotripper wrote on Apr 5^th, 2017 at 4:43am:

Quetico Dave likes to tell the story of the two guys he rented a brand new 4 person Eureka tent and were just base camping on the East end of Q-Lake. They were "concerned" about bears so Dave gave them the usual safety speech. First night in they're playing cribbage sometime after dark and think they hear noise/growl outside of tent? Next thing they know a bear clawed the tent and stuck it's head in! The screamed and the bear took off. Stayed up rest of the night around big fire and came out the next day. When the got to QD's they were still pretty freaked out and was telling him how they couldn't understand why the bear did that because they had done everything he told them too? Just about then Dave notices a piece of GULP worm sticking out of one guy's shirt pocket. Turns out he had stuck the open packet in shirt and forgot about it.  ;) ;D ;D That was the last time he heard from them. Just make sure your NOT wearing those fishy smelling pants IF old Yogi drops in for a late night snack.  :'( ;D ;D

Now that's funny!

I used that all natural bug repellent BUG SOOTHER on a recent fishing trip and was dutifully impressed.

NOT the bug conditions you'd experience in the Q, but I think it would be worth the expense to find out?

I found this DIY pet and human tick repellent recipe online.
It sounds a lot like the Bug Smoother concept.

I hate ticks worst of all and with the Lyme disease and this NEW Powassan tick VIRUS they found in Maine, keeping tick free is more important than ever.

Repellant for Pets
Add 1 cup of water to a spray bottle, followed by 2 cups of apple cider vinegar. (Ticks hate the smell and taste of vinegar, and will be easily be repelled by this ingredient alone.)

Then, add two spoonfuls of vegetable or almond oil, which both contain sulfur (another natural tick repellent).

Mix in a few spoonfuls of lemon juice, citrus oil, geranium oil or peppermint oil, which will all repel ticks and fleas while also creating a scented repellent.

Place the top onto the bottle and shake well.

Spray onto the pet's dry coat, staying away from sensitive areas including eyes, nose, mouth, and genitals. When outdoors for an extended period, spray this solution on two to three times per day, otherwise once per day is fine.


Repellent for You and Your Family
In a spray bottle, mix 2 cups of apple cider vinegar and 1 cup of water.

Add 20 drops of your favorite essential oil. Eucalyptus oil is a calm, soothing scent that also works as a tick repellent, while peppermint and citrus oils give off a strong crisp scent that repels ticks. (This way you won't smell like bitter vinegar all day!)

*Place the top onto the bottle and shake well.

After mixing the solution, spray onto clothing, skin, and hair before going outdoors. Reapply every four hours to keep ticks at bay, and examine the skin and hair when returning home to make sure no ticks are on the body.

I know some people are still on the fence about DIY Permethrin treatments.

  Insect Shield clothing uses a proprietary Permethrin treatment. They say it will last thru 70 washings.

The company now offers a service where you can send YOUR clothes and they treat them for you.

Price's are not cheap at first glance BUT if the treatment lasts as long as they say and you figure in the cost of DIY treatments PLUS "labor" then it's not bad at all.

I'm doing a DIY washer load right now but I don't have a wife telling me I can't ;D ;D or a cat to worry about.

Here's the link:   (You need to Login or Register

Too strong and you may have a different kind of ‘tic’ problem. ;)

Permethrin is an synthetic insecticide naturally derived from the chrysanthemum plant.  It actually "KILLS" mosquitos and ticks. And while most publications say it is not a "repellant"  (... Sawyer says it has repellant properties)  many including Denton Doc have seen it 1st hand permethrin treated clothing repelling both mosquitos and ticks.

I spray my clothes and Copper Spur UL2 tent no seeum netting with permethrin every year before I head up to Quetico and it has done a fantastic job protecting me from mosquito and ticks.


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I also treat all of my clothing, except underwear, with permethrin each year prior to my trip. I mix it in a spray bottle and spray everything outside and hang dry. I have also soaked my clothes overnight in the solution, but have found that unnecessary. I do it outside so as to not risk my wife’s cats. Any extra is applied to the foundation of our house. 8-)

One of the reasons I soak my clothes is that it is MUCH cheaper to DILUTE a stronger concentration of Permethrin down to the percentage needed for treating clothes.

This link shows you the amount you need per gallon of treatment based on 2 different solutions of Permethrin.

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I used the 36.8% formula. I got in on AMAZON.

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32oz diluted in 18 gallons (large washer load)
enabled me to treat ALL my clothes far cheaper than using spray bottles.

Soaked clothes overnight, put on SPIN cycle a couple of times to get all the water out, then dried on LOW heat in the dryer.

Permethrin is ONLY toxic to cats when it's WET.
Once your clothes are dry kitty is safe.

I've always had a cat until this year and have soaked my clothes since I read about the treatment.

However, you decide to do it, it works to keep the bugs away.

I would think it wouldn't be good pouring a wet solution down the drain into a sewer system, yes/no? Does the packaging say anything about deposal?

I'm thinking of how they tell us not to dispose of extra meds down the toilet. I think they burn them.

Jim J Solo wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2018 at 6:08pm:

I would think it wouldn't be good pouring a wet solution down the drain into a sewer system, yes/no? Does the packaging say anything about deposal? I'm thinking of how they tell us not to dispose of extra meds down the toilet. I think they burn them.

In a perfect world, we wouldn't put ANY chemicals into the environment.

I didn't see anything about proper disposal, but I didn't look either.

Not trying to minimize your concern, but there are people and golf course all over my area that spray fertilizer/bug killer on the lawns and all that runs into the sewers and then waste treatment plants before going back into lakes.

I don't think a few gallons of clothing soak is going to tip the tide one way or the other.

Like everything you have to decide where your comfort zone is and do what you feel is best.

  Something to consider if you're on the fence about treating your clothes with Permethrin?

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I use Permethrin on my clothes.  I have a woodlot in central WI which may be the tick capital of the world, especially this time of the  year.  This stuff just plain works.
I use deet based stuff on exposed skin but will be looking into that other stuff you're talking about.
Thanks for the tip..........Mike 

By the way, I spray my clothes with the Permethrin mix and let them air dry.  Still works great.
......Mike

solotripper wrote on May 2^nd, 2018 at 1:00pm:

Something to consider if you're on the fence about treating your clothes with Permethrin? http://www.foxnews.com/health/2018/05/01/cdc-infections-from-ticks-mosquitoes-surge-in-us.html

Another viewpoint:
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I treated my tent and some clothing with Permethrin last year, seemed to work.  I bought a bottle off Amazon, mixed with some water in a labeled spray bottle, spray and let dry.  I do worry about overusing it though as even though it is natural, doesn't mean it is good for you.  Lyme disease is not good either, so I try to find a balance.

Another use, I spray the soffit of my house under the eaves at the gable peaks where wasps like to make nests and it keeps them away.

I take the view that I rather worry a little too much than not enough when it comes to health and safety.

ALL the major outdoor clothing MFGS offer clothes treated with some form of Permethrin.

Insect Shielded is a proprietary mix but they are all based on Permethrin. The clothes you buy are said to be good thru 70 washing's and are at the .5% solution which is what you want for clothing.

As long as you don't go above that percentage I have to think you'll be okay. All those companies wouldn't risk major lawsuits if they didn't think it was safe at that percentage.

I know a few people that had Lyme disease and it is not something to take lightly. Even if you only use Permethrin self-treated garments a few weeks of the year on canoe trips, I have to believe any potential risks from that limited exposure is far less than getting Lyme disease?

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Asian ticks are coming.  Sounds like they have already overwintered in New Jersey, so it's only a matter of time before the move west.  I guess I'll order more Permethrin in preparation.

They BITE you long time.  ;) ;D