Over in the "Bookshelf" forum, Mossback appropriately suggested that a tangential discussion re: "cached food supplies in Quetico"  probably deserves its own thread.  So here it is.

Honestly, I'm not sure it's "legal" to cache food supplies.  The question came up in the context of planning extended canoe trip of 3+ weeks.  In fact, I believe I read somewhere that food caches are not allowed.  I guess I'm just too lazy at the moment to do the research.  Instead, I'm thinking someone on the board will know the answer off the top of their head.

The topic came up as part of a side-bar conversation regarding planned lengthy solo trips in the park as part of one's "retirement" present to oneself.  I had mentioned that such a thought had crossed my mind and the way I might do it would be to use food caches.

Frankly, what I actually had in mind was this:
1) I'd have an outfitter friend do a food drop for me at (or near) a park entry point, OR
2) I'd have a paddling friend ferry a food pack out to me as part of a pre-arranged rendezvous.  This could happen anywhere, I suppose.

Having teed-up those possible solutions, I DO know of folks who have actually placed hidden caches of food in the interior of the park.  They simply didn't want to haul an extra pack around on all portages.  Instead, they tucked the 2nd pack away in a spot where it was extraordinarily unlikely that anyone might find it.  Of course, they were careful to avoid leaving scents on that pack.  As far as I know, they didn't encounter any issues (legal, pilfering or bruin in nature).

None of this is to say that such practice is either condoned or permitted by park authorities.  Again, I simply do not know... which is my point of posting the question.

Who will be the first QJ member to confirm my suspicion about this practice and end the great mystery?

Jimbo   8-)

I think if I was doing that I'd mail a box with food to a ranger station not inside the wilderness like PP,  but like Dawson Trail and then you just fill up your current pack and dump your garbage and go. then you're at least not hauling an extra empty pack around. 

You might be able to grab a shower and a meal there too. (This is all said by me never having been to Dawson Trail so take it for what its worth)

Quote:

The question came up in the context of planning extended canoe trip of 3+ weeks

I took one food pack on my 21-day spring trip and came out with enough food for 2-3 days and DIDN'T catch many fish. Could of went another 7 days IF I was eating fish everyday.

I make up my own food, combo of off the shelf and some fresh in the form of whole wheat tortillas/ venison sticks and Baby Bell cheese. I don't pack light and I had 3 liters of homemade "snake bite" medicine which isn't light.

Look for food that gives tho most complex calories for the weight and pack smart, you might not need to cache at all?

I believe that the answer to your question is that it is illegal to stash (cache) anything in the park. I'm too lazy to look it up, but I know I've seen it in the rules.

That said, I've found other people's caches. I've never known what the proper response should be. Usually, I leave it alone and report locations upon leaving the park.

The option of exiting to reload requires a new permit. The option of setting up a Rendezvous could be problematic if something unforeseen causes either party to miss the connection. Probably, the safest option is to carry it all or to preplan that 2nd permit.

See ya at Copia  ;)

A couple of thoughts here,then I am backing out of the fray.

I like ST's notion of packing an ample supply of quality food in enough quantity to last 3 weeks, but I imagine my old arthritic knees would protest the weight penalty.  Still I like the idea.

I was not aware, or had forgotten, that once you leave the park your permit dies.  So if you are travelling a border route and stop for lunch on the USA side is that technically game over?

I recall the BWJ story of Gary Fielder spending 7 months in the BW and Quetico and during that time his partner made several re-supplies to him.  I do not remember if she came into the parks or he came out.

Sorry, it looks like I drifted off the subject matter again.


MossBack

How long are you stashing it.  I frequently hang a food pack when out for the day.  I have hung my pack for a couple of days when doing a bushwhack into a remote lake.  Then retrieve it on my way out. I have taken gear across long portages one day and finished the portage the next day. Word of caution on doing that it can leave you pants less. Legal Illegal? 

A month solo sounds great to me but I know I would love a midway break of coming out for maybe a half day to regroup and talk to actual people.

Carrying all that weight like ST did just doesn't sound appealing to my old bones.  I like to be stealthy and not like a mule.  I say go for a parachute drop in a lake.  Use a mirror to signal the pilot. Yeah, that's it.  Then burn the crate and chute and be on your way.

I'm quite sure - from having asked the office and several rangers - you can leave and re-enter Quetico at will as long as you have a permit covering that time. So "stash" it at Dawson Creek or any place around the park, hitch a ride into Ely or Atikokan to shop, stay a night, whatever. They love you paying for nights not used!  Pay for 365 nights and come and go as you please.

I don't know the stash rule in the Q but I did learn in BWCA you can stash as during the duration of your permit. I don't see the reason this would not be allowed in Q.

Quote:

I like to be stealthy and not like a mule.

When you spend longer than say 2 weeks solo, you better have a little "mule" in you or your not going to fair very well.
 
  One thing about a food pack is that you can lighten it as you go and if you do like I do and plan some camp days after rough stretches it's not that hard to carry a fairly heavy food pack.

  I figure my pack for that 21-day trip was about 60lbs starting out and I could have easily cut 10lbs from that IF I didn't like my camp luxuries at night.

  Most people will 2X anyway and if you have the time you can 3x IF needed.

  I think the logistics involved trying to get someone to drop a food pack for you at the right time or plan a "loop" where you can pick-up food that YOU left early on just makes for a lot of extra things that can go wrong. I'd make a real effort to bring all my food with some careful planning.

Q-Dave likes to tell the story of one of his old clients who was a college professor and who would spend the summer traveling around to different parks canoeing/camping.

He came up one spring to Q having read a bunch of books about living off the land by fishing and eating wild edibles. Dave said he brought a food pack with just some coffee and few food items, about the size of a daypack. He said his days of carrying a heavy food pack were now over!  ;) ;D ;D

He stayed in for a month traveling most of the border region. When Q-D picked him up at BH, he said he looked like a concentration camp survivor :o

Turns out living off the land while trying to keep a traveling schedule isn't as easy as the books make it appear to be.

The guy was so starved for carbs, he made Dave drive him into Atikokan and proceeded to gorge himself while Q-D looked on in amazement on how much the skinny little guy could eat.

I'd rather carry a heavy food pack and NOT need the food than the other way around.  ;) ;D ;D

The longest I've been out solo was 23 days and I carried all my food with me and fit all my gear, food and me in a 12 foot kayak.  I seldom dehydrate meals and never carry the packaged dehydrated foods you can buy; too expensive for the unfamiliar/poor taste they provide IMO.  I also do not try to catch/clean/cook fish. 
It is hard to find single serve packaged rice and pasta dishes so I am also often carrying more than I will eat in one meal and might keep leftover dinner for breakfast the next day.  I also almost always come home with extra food; seems on a hard and hot day, I lose my appetite. 
Regarding a food drop, mid-trip:  Some boundary areas are served by outfitters who are delivering people to a jump-off point.  It would not be too hard to arrange a meeting with an outfitter who would supply food or bring your pre-packed food which you have sent ahead to them.  Easy spots to do that would be Prairie Portage, Beaver House at parking lot, edge of Q at Saganaga Lake, French Lake, Bottle Portage, etc.  I've used Anderson's, LaTourelle's and Voyageur North outfitters for tows several times and find them organized and alert enough to be able to remember your request.  ;)

this from the park website - toward the bottom is caching - says canoes or equipment, but nothing about food????  I'd call the park office to be sure.

"Quetico is a specially managed Wilderness Park

The protection of Quetico Provincial Park is guided by rules and regulations that backcountry campers must adhere to. While this is not a comprehensive list, the following are a few notable rules to follow.
•Can and Bottle Ban: Non-burnable, disposable food and beverage containers are not allowed. Fuel, insect repellent, medicine, personal toiletry (non-food & beverage) containers are permitted only.  Please carry out all fuel cans
•Mechanized Use: It is illegal to possess a motorized boat, power saw, gasoline generator or power ice auger in the park.  No person may use a mechanized portage device, all terrain vehicle, snowmobile or similar mechanized equipment in Quetico Provincial Park.
•Party Size:  Nine people is the maximum party size allowed on a campsite.  It is recommended that large parties (any group over 5 people) travel separately across lakes and portages.
•Fishing:  Ontario fishing regulations require the use of artificial bait and barbless hooks within Quetico Provincial Park. Live or dead organic bait is not permitted in the park. Examples include leeches, worms and salted minnows. Live and dead bait can introduce invasive aquatic species. Barbed hooks may be pinched to conform to regulation. Reduce fish mortality by using barbless hooks, keep fish handling to a minimum, use proper fish handling techniques, and be aware of fishing regulations.. A valid Ontario fishing licence is required for fishing and must be in your possession. Licences are not available at all park stations and should be purchased prior to your arrival at   (You need to Login or Register
•Pets:  Pets must be leashed while visiting the park. Non-residents must be able to provide a current vaccination certificate.  Please remember to pick up after your pet.
•Firearms:  Possession of a firearm, including a rifle, shotgun, handgun, air gun, pellet gun, paintball gun, slingshot, bow or crossbow is prohibited. Hunting, molesting and harassing wildlife is also prohibited.
•Canoe/Kayaks:  Canadian Boating Safety regulations require: ◦One lifejacket or personal flotation device (PFD) of appropriate size for each person on board
◦One buoyant heaving line no less than 15 m (49’3”) in length
◦One manual propelling device (i.e. set of oars or paddle) or an anchor with no less than 15 m (49’3”) of cable, rope or chain in any combination
◦One bailer or one manual water pump fitted with or accompanied by sufficient hose
◦Sound-signalling device (whistle)
◦Watertight flashlight if paddling at night (Batteries must work)

Please check current boating requirements to ensure regulations are met at   (You need to Login or Register

•Litter: Pack out all non-burnable garbage, including tinfoil. You may not leave any litter in a provincial park, except in a place designated for that purpose.  Likewise, you must keep your interior campsite clean and sanitary at all times.  This will help prevent problems with bears and will also help to preserve Quetico’s wilderness.
•Closed Campsites: You may not camp on sites that are closed to camping.  Obey no camping signs.
•Quota System:  You must enter Quetico during business hours through the ranger station, on the entry date and entry point designated on your permit.  Do not take unnecessary risks, late arrivals due to high winds will be accommodated.
•Vegetation:  It is unlawful to remove, cut or damage any vegetation. For fuel wood, use only fallen dead wood collected from the shoreline and far from your campsite.
•Historical Sites: Quetico has a number of important archaeological sites within its boundaries.  You may not remove, damage or deface any relic, artifact or natural object or any site of archaeological or historical interest.  You may not disturb these sites, make an excavation for any purpose, or conduct research without written permission from Ontario Parks.
•Pictographs: Leave archaelogical, historical and pictograph sites untouched.  The Pictographs in Quetico are spiritually sacred for Anishinabe People.  Approach all pictographs queitly and respectfully. It is illegal to deface these sites or remove objects such as bones, arrowheads, and other artefacts. Quetico’s pictographs are fading. Do not touch the pictographs: Oil and perspiration can accelerate the deterioration of the pigment.
•Campfires:  Use existing fire rings. Fire pits must be built on bare rock or bare mineral soil and kept 1.5-3m from vegetation including overhanging trees.  If windy, do not have campfires.  Make sure your fire is out.  Fires are prohibited in a restricted fire zone. Possession or ignition of fireworks in a provincial park is illegal.
•Equipment Caching:  It is unlawful to store or leave unattended any watercraft or equipment in the park without the permission of the park superintendent.
•Campsite Structures:  Do not build tables, chairs or other structures at your campsite. Please leave the campsite as you found it, taking all your gear with you, including fire grills and grates.
•Noise:  Enhance your own experience and the experience of others by keeping noise to a minimum. We also encourage all aircraft to fly 4000 ft. above sea level when possible to help reduce noise levels."

I've carried food for 28 days in a solo boat  - I average about 1.25 lbs per day.

I'd call and ask the park if it was possible to leave food at Prairie Portage of Cache Bay - assuming you did the work to get it there.  Otherwise, if you started at French Lake, you culd loop back without leaving the park, and have your cached food in the vehicle you left there - could get a shower there too before you continued.   

I believe the cache restriction is intended to apply while you do not have a valid permit, otherwise you couldn't day trip and leave things in camp, but I'll try to ask the superintendent at Canoecopia. Just a little more than 24 hours!

I was wrong. The superintendent says only in your campsite or with you. Fear things will be left. Subject to the ranger there but leaving it a a ranger station would be fine. And always call if you have a question or special request. They will try to accommodate even if rules say otherwise.

And I confirmed as long as your permit is valid, you can come and go from the park. Buy a 6 month permit  ~$3600 - and come and go from May to October. He might regret it but suggested they'd give you a t-shirt if you buy a 6 month permit.

It would be ok with me if they discounted the daily rate for each day over 15 consecutive. 50% seems reasonable.
This show is packed today. Time to escape and see some presentations....

TomT wrote on Mar 11^th, 2017 at 5:55pm:

It would be ok with me if they discounted the daily rate for each day over 15 consecutive. 50% seems reasonable. This show is packed today. Time to escape and see some presentations....

It is a little crowded. Even the presentations - one was closed past SRO well before start time.