Good morning everyone.  I'm an avid kayak angler that has been to the BWCA once, but am looking to make it an annual (or more) trip from now on.  I also want to do some weekend camping/canoe trips closer to home.  On my 2018 BWCA trip I used a Jackson Kayak Kilroy, a sit inside fishing kayak that weighs around 70 pounds.  So I'm looking for something more portage friendly.  My dilemna is choosing not just a model, but a type of canoe.  Solo or tandem, kevlar or not, long or short, etc.  I'm new to canoes so I have no idea what I should be looking for.

If I was buying a canoe just for myself and trips to the BWCA, I would go with a good solo canoe.  However, I do have young grandchildren that will want to tag along on local day trips in a year or two.  So maybe a solo isn't the way to go?

If it makes a difference, I'm 6' and 240 lbs and my budget will only be $2k or less (so used is an option).  I'm just looking for some input on where to start.  I've googled the snot out of this canoe stuff and the choices are a bit overwhelming. 

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I also have a Kilroy for fishing locally. I'd never take it to the BW or Q.

As for canoe, we like to travel on those trips...so Kevlar or other lightweight is important. Carrying aluminum or royalex isn't much fun. If it was just you, I'd say solo all the way and probably paddle with a kayak paddle since you're used to it. Bell Magic, Wenonah advantage, and many more. How soon will you be taking the little ones on paddle trips? You could get a used solo for now and then in a few years you'll have a better idea if you like the solo or want to buy a bigger boat to include them.

Are you coming to Copia? If so, that's a good source of info. Come to our QJ gatherings, details in Rendezvous Forum.

If not, two words, 'Souris River'. 8-)

It sounds like you need two canoes, a beater for the grandkids at home, and a solo for wilderness trips. 8-)

Others will chime in. Welcome aboard to QJ! 8-)

BF,

   I solo in a 16 Souris River tandem paddling backward from the bow seat with a DOUBLE canoe paddle, its 9 ft long. You need that extra length because the tandem is winder than a solo or kayak. I can point you to a good/rugged CANOE paddle for a decent price. Not the lightest but your not a lightweight and if a old guy like me can handle it, you won't have a problem.  ;) ;D ;D
   
I remove the stern seat so I can slide the heaviest pack to the bow to trim it out.
   
I prize stability and ease of packing over raw speed but as always others will disagree.

  Empty the SR weighs about 40#. Down the road, you want to bring your kids you'd have plenty of room do it. You can get snap-in center seats to make it a 3 man canoe.

  When it comes to toughness for the price I think SR is hard to beat. It's the go-to rental canoe for a lot of outfitters so that tells you something.
  Many outfitters sell used SR's after the season. I'd contact some and ask about it.

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Old Salt wrote on Feb 12^th, 2020 at 4:52pm:

Are you coming to Copia?

I wish, but not going to make it this year.  Maybe I'll set my sights on it for next year.

I think the idea of a good solo now and down the road getting a beater for the grandkids to join me locally sounds like an awesome idea, thank you!  Don't know why I didn't think of that.

solotripper, I like the sounds/looks of that set up.  I'm not a big "speed" guy and would rather have the stability and ease of packing as well.  How well does your set up paddle solo without a load?

Big Flounder wrote on Feb 12^th, 2020 at 7:34pm:

Old Salt wrote on Feb 12th, 2020 at 4:52pm: Are you coming to Copia? I wish, but not going to make it this year.  Maybe I'll set my sights on it for next year. I think the idea of a good solo now and down the road getting a beater for the grandkids to join me locally sounds like an awesome idea, thank you!  Don't know why I didn't think of that. solotripper, I like the sounds/looks of that set up.  I'm not a big "speed" guy and would rather have the stability and ease of packing as well.  How well does your set up paddle solo without a load?

    You need to get a ballast bag to fill with water and put in as far forward as you can. Something like this works well.

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BF,

One of the best ways to pick out a canoe is to paddle the ones that fit your short list if you can - loaded with your gear if possible.  Obviously, that depends on availability of test boats in your area.  Check your classifieds locally and see if you can at least go put eyes on some different models.  The Bell Magic might be a bit narrow in the gunnels for a bigger person - so it pays to check them out.  If you have not made a purchase before your trip, see if you can rent one from your short list when you do go.  If you can afford the time before or after your trip, look around Ely at the different canoes.  Some places will let you test them out locally.  Piragis has tons of canoes of all sorts and they will let you strap one on the car and take it down to Shagawa and paddle around for a bit.  I tested out five canoes there one year.  Of course, they're also very knowledgeable and will talk canoe with you for hours.  Very helpful.  Not being in rush to make a purchase will provide you more opportunity to get educated on canoes.  Of course, you'll find plenty of advice here too.  My personal solo is a Bell Merlin II - comparable to the current Northstar Northwind Solo.  Good volume, tracks well.

pd

I think you can get a solo and a tandem for $2000, used, and some looking. I'm 230, 6-2, prioritize stability over speed, and love my SR Tranquility.  34 pounds or so. Hard to find used - I got very lucky from a outfitter changing from SR to Northstar. 

If you're not portaging the tandem or larger, aluminum with the grand kids makes sense and ought to find a used one well under $1000.

Check all the outfitters reqularily would be my advice. Most go in the fall but I see some left.

Hey BF.  Here's another option for you.  I solo a 16' Nova Craft Boundary Waters.  I bought it because I liked the stability and flexibility it provides.  Instead of paddling from the front seat facing backwards, I removed the thwart and replaced it with a Center Seat Yoke from Spring Creek Outfitters.  I sit in the middle of the boat which distributes the weight evenly.  The seat yoke flips over for easy portaging.  I also use a longer kayak paddle.  The seat can also serve as a third seat if you want to take a couple of other folks along.
Just thought I'd throw that out there.  You're right....the options out there can be overwhelming.  I agree with PD....try to paddle a few boats to see what you like.
Safe travels.....Mike

I have paddled a lot in solo in both tandem and solo boats.  So many people go for the true solo for reasons.  Usually a true solo will have tumblehome in the center making it easier to reach the water without banging your knuckle on the gunnels.  The seat is generally lower making the boat stable but it will be narrower using up that stability. While we are talking about stability the boat that is stable for me (180 pounds) will be much less stable for you. Another way to think about it is weight below the gunnels makes the boat more stable weight above the gunnels makes the boat less stable. Most of the passenger weight is above the gunnel.
Let’s talk gear ratios. If you are on a 15 speed bicycle and it is hooked up to pull a loaded 18 wheeler what gear are you going to put it in?? So you are thinking what’s that got to do with canoes.  A bigger canoe is harder to move through the water (think barge with an 18 wheeler setting in it). The tandem canoe (think barge) is bigger so you will need a longer paddle to reach the water. The longer paddle changes the gear ratio in the wrong direction. 
I own and sometimes paddle a Bell Magic.  Many people describe a Magic’s handling as twitchy. Which means it tips that first few degrees real easy. The bigger you are the more you will notice the twitchiness. I let a 240 LB man paddle my Magic.  He had never paddled a solo canoe and was very uneasy in the Magic.  If you are over 6 Ft lowering the seat a couple of inches would make a lot of difference.  The magic has much better secondary stability.  I can stand up in it and paddle it in calm conditions. For most of my trips the magic is a bigger boat than I like and so most of my paddling is in a smaller solo. With your size the magic would be about the correct size boat but you would probably want the seat lowered.  I know large man finds it easier to get up with a higher seat position.  I went on a trip with a large man who had raised his seat 1&1/2 inches.  After we got him out of the 35 degree water he lowered it back down.

Quote:

I agree with PD....try to paddle a few boats to see what you like.

   
    If you go that route which is probably the best idea if you can swing it, I would advise you to do this as well.
    Bring your big portage pack(s) with you loaded to the approximate weight you'll be tripping with.

  Then you can see if they load easily and more importantly how the canoe handles loaded?

   One of the reasons I didn't like a true solo was because I like to keep the load below the gunnels.
  My gear pack and food pack both have side pockets I added on. I keep my stove fuel and ropes etc in them. Things I want access to without opening the gear pack. They won't lay cross-ways in a true solo or sideways either.
   With the tandem, they lay either way. I'd have to change my pack/loading system if I got a true solo.

  Right now I don't want to do that. Maybe in the future when weight becomes a critical factor I'll have to go that route.

  I hoping PD's anti-gravity portaging discs get invented by then.  :-? ;) ;D ;D

 

@ ST.....still working on those anti-gravity discs...until then, I'm hoping the ones in my back hold out.   :o

Disclaimer on the Merlin II - have not tripped in that boat, as I fly up to MN. It's my workout boat locally. My drive would be 22 hours one way to Ely and I'm not doing that - at least until I retire.  I did get that for only $1250 and lightly used, so you just need to decide what you want, then wait for the opportunity.  I think you'll do really good on a used boat for $2000 grand or less.

Last summer, Magic let me paddle his Magic for the Aug/Sep. trip TomT did the trip report on.  I like to keep things below the gunnels too and with a narrower solo, I did have to keep that in mind packing. It worked out fine with my CCS Pioneer pack, a CCS 30L barrel pack, and a BWJ Guide pack.  And what Magic said about stability.  I find the Bell (NorthStar) canoes tend to have really good secondary stability, esp. in big water.  Jimbo and Wally13 did take on some water in that big ol' Souris River (and it IS big) on day 1, but that Magic stayed bone dry...just sayin'!  Then again, maybe it wasn't the canoe, rather the load!  :D

pd

Probably too far but Paddlefest in Old Forge is a chance to test paddle quite a few: Northstar, Wenonah, and Swift among others. Lots of nearby camping opportunities.    (You need to Login or Register

portage dog wrote on Feb 14^th, 2020 at 10:05pm:

Jimbo and Wally13 did take on some water in that big ol' Souris River (and it IS big) on day 1, but that Magic stayed bone dry...just sayin'!  Then again, maybe it wasn't the canoe, rather the load!  :D pd

I think I have a solution for Mike and Jimbo's "Barge"  :D

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   ;D ;D ;D ;D

  I wonder if you could use just ONE float and do the OUTRIGGER thing? That would fit right in with the PINK FLAMINGO camp motive!  ;) 8-) 8-)

I just wanted to thank everyone for the input and advice.  I GREATLY appreciate it.  Just like the fishing kayaks I'm used to, it sounds like it's best to test paddle as many models as possible.  Not a ton of canoe dealers here in Indiana, and even less that offer test paddling, but I'll figure something out when I'm ready to buy.  Again, thanks for the help!

one thing I'd recommend you do is to start now, watching Craigslist and your local paper want ads for used canoes.

If you see a really good deal on something that meets your needs, jump on it.  you can always post a question here like - I see a xyz solo for sale - will that work for me?  or how much is it worth ?   

generally, really good buys go fast, though this is still the "Off Season"

and something to keep in mind - these boats are relatively cheap when compared to buying  a house or a car - if you get one that you don't like, just resell, likely for a small loss, but perhaps even for more than you paid - its not as complicated as getting a divorce!

I'd recommend buying an ultralight solo boat and learning to paddle it with a single blade, but whatever works for you.  Just keep in mind that ultralight boats don't want to be abused - you need to wet foot the landings and be somewhat careful with them - they aren't fragile, but they aren't super tough either.  if you are used to letting your fishing kayak grind up on shore to get out or shove off, you won't be doing that with an ultralight boat.

BF, Try Fluid Fun in Bristol or Earth Adventures in Ft Wayne. I'll PM you also as I have several canoes and know others that have some you might try. Stop by Rutabagas in Madison as you travel by, they'll let you test paddle anything they sell in a lagoon behind the shop.

TomT wrote on Feb 15^th, 2020 at 3:49pm:

portage dog wrote on Feb 14th, 2020 at 10:05pm:     Jimbo and Wally13 did take on some water in that big ol' Souris River (and it IS big) on day 1, but that Magic stayed bone dry...just sayin'!  Then again, maybe it wasn't the canoe, rather the load!  :D pd I think I have a solution for Mike and Jimbo's "Barge"  :D   (You need to Login or Register

Not sure how I missed this post & thread from way-back-when but I did.

TomT, please be advised that I have previously OWNED one of those stabilizer kits AND the rowing kit that came with it!  Bought it at Spring Creek, too.

You know the stabilizers/outriggers worked great on the water BUT, I'm telling you, they were a real pain-in-the-ass to portage while still attached to the canoe!  My other issue with them... well, with the whole "rowing rig", was that I was ALWAYS ROWING BACKWARDS!  There is DEFINITELY something to be said for "forward vision."  While this device might work OK in a canal or a wind-less day, it truly sucks on big water with big wind when you can't gauge the wave that's rolling at you.  I felt like I was surfing those monster rollers on the north end of Kauai during their "big wave" season!  It's not that I was in danger of capsizing. It was more the "bath of surprise" thing going on, smashing into those waves.  It takes some getting used to!

Anyway, those outriggers were quite the experience.  I paddled that way for a couple years, in fact.  Then, I decided that "canoeing" was not meant to be done that way.

Thanks for the tip.  Been there, done that!  Just another footnote/blip in a long list of misadventures in the wilderness.

Jimbo   8-)

Jimbo wrote on Mar 20^th, 2020 at 9:26pm:

TomT wrote on Feb 15th, 2020 at 3:49pm: portage dog wrote on Feb 14th, 2020 at 10:05pm:     Jimbo and Wally13 did take on some water in that big ol' Souris River (and it IS big) on day 1, but that Magic stayed bone dry...just sayin'!  Then again, maybe it wasn't the canoe, rather the load!  :D pd I think I have a solution for Mike and Jimbo's "Barge"  :D   (You need to Login or Register Not sure how I missed this post & thread from way-back-when but I did. TomT, please be advised that I have previously OWNED one of those stabilizer kits AND the rowing kit that came with it!  Bought it at Spring Creek, too. You know the stabilizers/outriggers worked great on the water BUT, I'm telling you, they were a real pain-in-the-ass to portage while still attached to the canoe!  My other issue with them... well, with the whole "rowing rig" was that I was ALWAYS ROWING BACKWARDS!  While that might work OK in a canal or a wind-less day, it truly sucks on big water when you can't gauge the wave that's rolling at you.  I felt like I was in the big surf on the north end of Kauai during their "big wave" season!  I wasn't really in danger of capsizing. It was more the "bath of surprise" thing going on, smashing into those waves. Anyway, it was quite the experience.  I paddled that way for a couple years, in fact.  Then, I decided that "canoeing" was not meant to be done that way. Thanks for the tip.  Been there, done that!  Just another blip in a long list of misadventures in the wilderness. Jimbo   8-)

  I could see this working on trips where you stayed on one lake, like Pickerel.

  I could see it working for a couple too.  ;) ;D ;D
You know where the guy is driving/rowing and his better half is TELLING him where to go.  :-? ;) ;D ;D