Any ideas? Is Royalex the only option. Are there any under say 60lbs? I'm looking for suggested makes and models. I would think at 16 footer would be ideal.

They don't make the Royalex fabric anymore, at least I don't think they do.

  People are scrambling to come up with an alternative.
  I read where Novacraft had their own material so I looked online.

Before I went to their website I saw these video's on YouTube.
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  Here's a link to their website.
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   They're are some other video on YouTube of people testing this material out.

  Company has been around a long time so that's good.
  They have a link on their website to a explanation of the various materials you can have a canoe made of.

  This should get you going.
 

Thanks. I knew about the discontinuation of Royalex but they're out there on craigslist. I'll look at the links though. I'm interested to know if there is a canoe manufacture that folks trust to run whitewater in. Canadians seem to have their preferences. Kevlar is probably not a good idea as a material. So, I'm looking for any suggestions.

Don’t know what kind of whitewater you’re interested in. Lots of folks use kayaks. Any canoe can swamp and fail. Kevlar is pretty bombproof.

I have a couple of Nova Craft Royalex canoes that I use for river paddling/fishing/camping.  Both are 16'.  One is the regular Royalex and  it weighs >60#....seems like 2800# if I have to carry it.  The other one is a "lite" version and I'm thinking about 55 # or so.  They've seen plenty of rapids and countless rocks and have held up very well over the years.  They're bombproof but heavy.  I would have destroyed my kevlar boat many times over if I used it like the royalex boats.  If you can find a decent royalex boat that might be a good idea. 
My wife's roto molded kayak has also held up very well.  But guess who gets to carry all the "stuff"?  Yup, the sucker in the canoe.
Stay safe......

Hey thanks mpeebles! That's one of the options that I was looking at re: NovaCraft with tuffweave.

I think Wenonah makes a Spirit solo in a polycarb composite but I can't determine if that has the durability of something like tuffweave. I'll look around though for the Nova Craft. The real hurdle will be convincing my wife that I need a third boat to go to places like Wabakimi to run rapids :D :D ;D

It looks like the options with NovaCraft are an 1) Aramid, 2) Tuffweave or a 3) Tuffweave expedition, the latter just being a beefier version of tuffweave and probably a corresponding increase in weight.

I test paddled an Echo   (You need to Login or Register and liked it and am considering it for Adirondack paddling. 45 pounds. Esquif has a lot of t-formax models.

I think Wenonah makes a Wilderness in t-formax. Old Town also has t-formax models.

Thanks for the info on the new materials.   I really like my tandem boats for soloing but I ain't getting any younger or stronger so there may be a new solo boat in my future.  I'll suffer from the same problem of having to talk my supervisor into buying a new canoe.   I forgot who supervised me before I got married...must be losing my memory  :-/
Stay safe......

  These guys borrowed Kevin Callan's canoe on HIS recommendation to do a 14-day paddle in Wabakimi.
  They did a 6 part series on it.

  It was a Novacraft TuffStuff Prospector.
Looks like that lay-up is legit.

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That video is much-needed tonic for a wilderness-starved paddler, both parts 1 & 2!  Thanks for sharing!

Jimbo   8-)

Quote:

I ain't getting any younger or stronger so

   There's a CURE for that, the STRONGER part that is.  :-? ;) ;D ;D

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BillConner wrote on Apr 12^th, 2020 at 10:51am:

I test paddled an Echo   (You need to Login or Register and liked it and am considering it for Adirondack paddling. 45 pounds. Esquif has a lot of t-formax models. I think Wenonah makes a Wilderness in t-formax. Old Town also has t-formax models.

That Esquif Echo looks interesting, Bill. It looks like from their website that they have a dealer rep in Wisconsin, probably the Madison area. I wonder if MuleLars is monitoring this thread and might be able to shed some light on whether there's a dealer in town or nearby? I'd love to test paddle one of these.

**UPDATE to my own post -- Rutabaga has them or can order one for you. Hmmmm. Decisions.

Solotripper,

I really enjoyed your link to the 6 Part YouTube Video on Canoeing Wabakimi.

Wally13 wrote on Apr 13^th, 2020 at 4:08am:

Solotripper, I really enjoyed your link to the 6 Part YouTube Video on Canoeing Wabakimi.

I watched the first 2 parts.  Lots of good footage but do Canadiens call Walleye Pickerel?  I know they are similar looking fish but they look like walleye to me.

TomT,
They call them pickerel. There's a whole thread on another site with a debate raging on whether it's walleye or pickerel :). I just want to find a tough enough canoe option to run parts of Wabakimi to catch the walleye-er pickerel. ;D

... and it gets REALLY confusing when you throw "sauger" into the discussion.

I remember the time when a guy from northern Ontario arrived at my buddy's outfitting shop in an old station wagon, kicking up a lot of dust in the parking lot.  He rushes into where a few of us were standing around, BS-ing and drinking beer.  The dude had just returned from a trip into the interior of Quetico and was returning a canoe.  He obviously had something to say, so we stopped our discussion to listen.  The big news?  He declares he had caught sauger on Alice Lake.  From that point forward, however, the conversation, which included both Americans and other Canadians, got very confusing....

"You mean you caught walleye?"

"No, t'was sauger, I swear!"

"It wasn't just a pickerel with spots on the fins, eh?"

"Or maybe a walleye with spots on it fins?", says yet another guy.

"That makes it a sauger, naturally!"

"Ain't no sauger on Alice, just pickerel!", asserts a local guy.

"That can't be right", says a friend of mine (who should have stayed out of it).  "I caught both walleye and pike there!"

"You mean pickerel, we're not talking about pike!"

"Well ain't a pickerel a small pike?"

"Not if it's a walleye."

"Or a sauger..."
***********************

Anyway, that pointless conversation went round and round.  My head was spinning so much that I never did figure out what, exactly, that guy actually caught.  You get the drift... a Canadian version of Abbott & Costello's "Who's On First?"

Hey, a walleye, by another other name, still tastes as good... even if it's really a sauger or a pickerel.

Jimbo   8-)

I liked that 6 part documentary too. It was well done.
I found it looking for that video showing the Novacraft guys abusing that TuffStuff canoe. 

I actually found a short video from the same guys returning that borrowed canoe to "Uncle" Kevin Callan.
From that funny video they had link to their trip. I think that video is on their YouTube site. It's pretty funny.

  Yup, some Canadians DO call what are Walleye "Pickerel", but they would be technically WRONG.  :-? ;D ;D  I asked Q Dave about that because he has some big mounted WALLEYE in his cabin. He said basically what this article says.

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   2 completely different species of fish.

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By the way, those big Waldo's were caught in the Bearpelt/Omeme Lk area on worms before they banned live bait.

To add to the Sauger issue, it appears they can mate with true Walleye and produce what is called a Saugeye  :o :-/ ;D ;D

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Check out Northstars B16 it is multi layered kevlar. They are also making a straight up white water solo boat out of the same materials. I have seen the prototype take a serious beating.

When I was doing whitewater we used composite hulls exclusively. They can take a  surprising amount of abuse and are easy to fix.

Novacraft also has a hybrid material that they use called Blue Steel. I kid you not.

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It's essentially an aramid and carbon fiber hybrid material.  Filled with an olefin fiber and vinylester resin. Strong but still lightweight. This might be a an option to consider. The Northstar B17 is essentially the same construction.

HighnDry, Are you looking for a mostly whitewater boat? I went on a few river trips like the Missinabi. Heard the best solo canoe for such a trip was the Dagger Genesis at the time, it was about 13'. I ended up getting an Esquif Vertige cause I thought I'd be doing some of that but found it hard to get good whitewater paddlers to trip. And good trippers mostly didn't want to do whitewater. So I ended up doing guided trips in tandems.
The Vertige ended up being a good boat to start doing whitewater in, very forgiving. But ends up I'm not so much into whitewater itself but as a means to travel the lands I want to explore.

I'd like a versatile enough boat that can cover flat water stretches at a decent clip, doesn't weigh a ton to portage (<50lbs) and handles whitewater (especially rocks!) without having a hole punched in it.

That would be my ideal....and it doesn't cost and arm-and-a-leg! ;D ;D

HighnDry wrote on Apr 18^th, 2020 at 9:25pm:

I'd like a versatile enough boat that can cover flat water stretches at a decent clip, doesn't weigh a ton to portage (<50lbs) and handles whitewater (especially rocks!) without having a hole punched in it. That would be my ideal....and it doesn't cost and arm-and-a-leg! ;D ;D

You DON'T want to much do you!  ;) ;D ;D

I know what I want ..but I didn't say I'd get it! ;D

[quote author=nadagikendan link=1586641336/22#22 date=1586886994]Novacraft also has a hybrid material that they use called Blue Steel. I kid you not.

I looked at the Nova Craft "Blue Steel" boats at Canoecopia a couple of years ago.  I liked what I saw and heard at the time.

I'm kicking the tires on a trip out west this year to do some float trips and trout fishing but I'd probably take my royalex "tugboat"
if I go.

Stay safe.......

Cleaning out my notebook on whitewater canoes.....

At least four choices for hulls:
1) Hevlar...is light - I call it the birch bark option because you'll likely only run a good set of rapids once with this hull....and never again....or regret that you did it in the first place! I'll save my two boats for the easier, flatter stuff out there. ;)

2) Composite hulls - This option covers the Aramid, Armid lite, and blue steel options. It's lighter than other classic hulls such as royalex and t-formax but the durability of it would have to be monitored. Better to portage though than those below. That B17 Northwinds is a good example of this although Nova Craft makes a good Prospector  16 out of this too.

3) Royalex - Is this a composite too? It seems like it to me but probably deserves its own category. Its variously described as a coating of vinyl with a hard acrylonitrile butadiene styrene plastic outer layer and ABS foam inner layer. My old Penobscot 16 was made of this and weighed every bit of the 75 pounds advertised! I miss that boat's durability but I'm glad that I really never had to portage it anywhere or for any substantial length of time.  ::)

4) Fiberglass, i.e. concrete. If you portage this you will save enough on potential canoe repairs from running rapids to afford that back surgery, hip replacement and a lifetime supply of extra strength Tylenol  ;D ;D ;D. I'd like to take one of these and plop it on a lake to see if it sinks.....just sayin'

5) Grumman Airplane Aluminum - I'm starting to like this canoe more even though it's the heaviest. On my first group trip into WCPP, we came out at Johnson after crossing paths with a group of four Canadienne women on Telescope, two were from Red Lake, one was Oji-Cree and the fourth was from further south. They were all friends who had grown up together in the area. They portaged two tried-and-true silver Grummans during a five day trip like champs and met us in the Johnson parking lot...and they never flinched once about carrying those heavy boats. That is just they way it's done, they said. P.S. The did not give a ride to town...but delivered our message that we needed one.... 8-)

I'll add my overall impressions from the research....

Whitewater canoes can be designed to specialize in whitewater canoeing, i.e. maneuverability, protection against swamping, rugged hulls, etc but they may tough for novice to intermediate paddlers to control on flat water and may be slower crossing big lakes.

So, I'm probably NOT looking for a whitewater canoe per se but a reasonably sturdy, versatile flatwater canoe that provides some of the necessary traits to cover whitewater stretches and still paddle the flat and slow current stuff with relative ease.

The Prospector is popular in Canada for that reason but Swift makes a decent version of this and Dagger has a few options. Northwinds apparently is churning out a canoe to compete in this category and you could probably do all right with a royaliex or facsimile with a litter  up-skilling (e.g. whitewater training classes) to be safe out there...

Just my two cents. I'll keep reading. I've got plenty of time on my hands these days...
:o

Some notes on potential boats:

Prospector 16 or 17 in Aramid Lite

Swift Prospector 16 (Kevlar Fusion or Expedition)

Northwinds B17

Boats are on hold. Gotta go buy a new dishwasher for our kitchen. The order came down from on high.... ;)

HND - Get the model with the Kevlar tub....then you can paddle THAT when not washing dishes.  :D

pd

Of all the crazy ideas that I've had, that thought definitely crossed my mind.

We've had to break out my camp dishwashing tub to get the dinner dishes clean. So, some of our camping gear IS double-purposing.

"So, I'm probably NOT looking for a whitewater canoe per se but a reasonably sturdy, versatile flatwater canoe that provides some of the necessary traits to cover whitewater stretches and still paddle the flat and slow current stuff with relative ease."

a little late to the party, but thought I'd add a bit.

H&D, for sure you do not want a white water boat - what you want is a boat generally described as a "river tripper" - something you can do Class II in, and still be reasonable in slow current and lakes.  No river tripper will be "fast" on the lakes, but will be much faster than a true white water boat, and a whole lot more comfortable (WW boats have "saddles" that you sit on in a kneeling position - after about an hour of that, I can barely walk!)   

granted that you aren't buying now, you still ought to be looking at Craig's List and any other classifieds for a decent used boat:  Look for Mad River "Guide" or "Freedom Solo", Maybe a Swift Keewaydin 15', NorthStar Phoenix or NorthStar Solo, or Nova Craft Supernova..  Wenonah has the Wilderness (15'4"), which isn't really a river tripper, but has a bit of rocker; Their Argosy (14'6")  and Rendezvous (15'8")  are better --- you may get lucky and find any of these in royalex or sturdy composite.  These boats all have moderate rocker 2 - 2.5 inches, so aren't too hared to keep straight on flatwater, but are maneuverable on rivers.

I have a rendezvous in royalex - weighs about 58# - kind of a pig on flat water, but it is the fastest of the solo river trippers in my opinion - I've done a lot of Class II rapids, and a little bit of CIII in this boat - for CII and above, you most likely want to have a boat rigged for floatation bags, though dry bags will give some floatation.  Wenonah never showed the rendezvous as a composite boat in their website, but they still do make them for the local dealer here in Denver (likely because he was the designer)  - you can check out his website to get a perspective on what solo boats are out there and what they cost (canoecolorado.net)   - If I were to buy a new boat for river tripping up to Class II, it would be another rendezvous in tuffweave layup - there are at least a half dozen of them in my club, and they all hold up quite well - it is a bit cheaper than some of the more exotic layups and about a half mph faster than the rx version.

I thought she married a dishwasher! 8-)

MM,

Good suggestions and thanks! I'll take a deeper dive into this during the week. I just got back from a short trip with my daughter up in Ely. LOTS of people up there but that's to be expected. I'd agree that I'm looking at something like the river tripper that you suggested -- just something with more rocker than my current flat water boats and some toughness to the layup. Weight's a consideration as well.