I'm not sure if this is a portent of things to come, but the Home and Garden Expo that's always four weeks before Copia at the Alliant Energy Center, announced yesterday that it would be all virtual in 2021.

I haven't heard anything else about plans at the Alliant, but I thought that was interesting.

ml

I'm not surprised in the least, ML.

What WOULD surprise me would be Copia running as normal OR Canada opening up in 2021.  I'm betting these things don't happen until 2022, at the earliest.  Our friends in Canada do not want us there... and I, for one, can't blame them.  Re: Copia, well... doing it "virtual" might be better than nothing (though the QJ get-together's are irreplaceable!), so why not give it a try?

Like Aldous Huxley said, "Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored."  "Post-Sturgis" South Dakota is learning that lesson the hard way right now.

I don't like any of it and I've had trouble getting my head around the notion that we'll be living with this crap for quite a while yet.  Sometimes the best we can do is simply: "Don't make matters worse than they already are."

Sadly, come March, I expect this admonition will likely hold true for Copia.

Jimbo   8-)

I don't know how long it takes to put Copia together, but I would hope that they don't pull the plug until at least January 2021.  Given my current situation (semi retired and working from home) it is easier to stay safe, but it is boring.

I am sure I will catch hell for my opinion, but I believe this will all be a bad memory by the end of the first quarter 2021.  Within four months after the election, no matter who wins, Covid will cease to be the most prominent thing in the news.  It will still be with us, and still harming people,  but everyday life will return at some level we will recognize.

Let me know if you need a physical address for the mailing of hate mail and letter bombs.

MB

MossBack wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2020 at 2:35pm:

I am sure I will catch hell for my opinion, but I believe this will all be a bad memory by the end of the first quarter 2021.  Within four months after the election, no matter who wins, Covid will cease to be the most prominent thing in the news.  It will still be with us, and still harming people,  but everyday life will return at some level we will recognize. Let me know if you need a physical address for the mailing of hate mail and letter bombs. MB

  I got your back MB  [smiley=thumbup.gif]

I received a suggestion that I should clarify my comment from yesterday, about hate mail and letter bombs.   I was poking fun at myself, assuming I would get some strong rebuttal on my COVID opinion.   I was NOT suggesting anyone send anyone hate mail, etc. 

Would love letters containing bombs be an acceptable compromise?

and I just thought you were getting THAT lonely and needed ANY kind of social contact MB!

I'm with you on the outlook, though.  Not sure it will be the first quarter, but I do believe people will not be sitting around in isolation a full year later like this spring.  I think things are going to be more normalized - in that we'll be doing things we had been without near a much fear of the virus, not that it'll be going away though. My money is on Darren and the crew to pull good show together.  I do believe there will not be as many visitors though.

pd

I am sure this has already been discussed.  Maybe we just go to Madison the same week as Copia would be held and buy gear from Darren that we would have bought anyway if we had attended.   Sometimes a good roadtrip will satisfy a Get Out of Town Itch, if a woodsy trip is not possible.  Convening at the same motel to tell lies and maybe even some  truths ?

PD....I only need just enough human contact to stay just this side of being a complete hermit.

As more and more data/treatments comes in things will get to the point where we can learn to live with it like we do the seasonal flu.

  If the US and Canada can agree on a protocol/requirements there is no reason to keep the boarder locked down.

This latest data from a company that does analytics
is just another piece in the puzzle.

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My analytics suggest that this thread is well on its way to the "cat hole" forum.

dd

MB....I like the way you think!  Road trip! And I don't think it has been discussed...your original idea.  Though Darren's shop would be kinda small for the 1000's that would show up - and he'd probably be sold out in less than an hour!  :(

DD.....I think you're being optimistic.

pd

portage dog wrote on Sep 3^rd, 2020 at 4:34pm:

and I just thought you were getting THAT lonely and needed ANY kind of social contact MB! I'm with you on the outlook, though.  Not sure it will be the first quarter, but I do believe people will not be sitting around in isolation a full year later like this spring.  I think things are going to be more normalized - in that we'll be doing things we had been without near a much fear of the virus, not that it'll be going away though. My money is on Darren and the crew to pull good show together.  I do believe there will not be as many visitors though. pd

I'd second your take on this PD.

Yikes! I never meant for this to be a controversial thread

Sorry-
ml

ML.....at this moment in time I do not think a person could say "The Sun Came up Today" with out being challenged.   When I was a kid, we had hedge apple fights, Osage Oranges if you live further south.  I am starting to have a bit of   Deja vu

Strictly speaking the sun doesn't come up.  The earth rotates.  But everybody is entitled to their own opinions.

FWIW, I usually get the invite to submit a presentation topic sometime in September. A little early yet, but I know the show wasn’t cancelled until their hand was forced. They are pretty creative and I think they will find a way to make it happen. I look forward to seeing everyone I missed this year. 8-)

I plan to resubmit the topic I planned to present this year plus an additional topic. If we can disappoint dd and keep this thread alive, I’ll let you know when I get the invitation. 8-)

This humors me quite a bit since I made a few bucks on bets at sunset back in the day by sayin you're wrong and my compass can prove it.

MossBack wrote on Sep 8^th, 2020 at 7:09pm:

ML.....at this moment in time I do not think a person could say "The Sun Came up Today" with out being challenged.   When I was a kid, we had hedge apple fights, Osage Oranges if you live further south.  I am starting to have a bit of   Deja vu

Those oranges must've hurt! I thought getting pelted with crab apples was bad! ( a long story).

HighnDry wrote on Sep 9^th, 2020 at 7:58pm:

MossBack wrote on Sep 8th, 2020 at 7:09pm: ML.....at this moment in time I do not think a person could say "The Sun Came up Today" with out being challenged.   When I was a kid, we had hedge apple fights, Osage Oranges if you live further south.  I am starting to have a bit of   Deja vu Those oranges must've hurt! I thought getting pelted with crab apples was bad! ( a long story).

Lots of wedge issues here...

A two pound Hedge Apple flung by a decent arm would take a 6 year old right off his feet, and keep him there long enough for the flinger to reload and get another shot off.

This was also a forerunner of PaintBall, as the round green projectile would leave a huge gob of the white sticky gunkus on the victim,  that resides inside of all Hedge Apples.

Now we return to your regular programming.

MB

There's "regular" programming here?  :o

pd

Yeah, just like going to the BW/Q is somehow like what normal people consider a vacation.

MossBack wrote on Sep 9^th, 2020 at 8:30pm:

A two pound Hedge Apple flung by a decent arm would take a 6 year old right off his feet, and keep him there long enough for the flinger to reload and get another shot off. This was also a forerunner of PaintBall, as the round green projectile would leave a huge gob of the white sticky gunkus on the victim,  that resides inside of all Hedge Apples. Now we return to your regular programming. MB

  Man, I could have been the King of the Hill with this bad boy.  ;) ;D ;D
  Hedge Apple fights, Game of Throne style  ;D ;D

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Yeah, just like going to the BW/Q is somehow like what normal people consider a vacation.

Is there an echo in here?  ;D ;D

in here? in here?

Ya know OS, with a little polish and practice, we could take this comedy show on the road!  ;D ;D  Maybe we could convince folks like db to do guest appearances with us!? Maybe ST and mossback could join us for demonstrations of marksmanship with apples and whatever... ;)

Ok, let me know when you’re practiced and polished... ;D

HD , Please do not confuse a lowly edible apple with a youngsters high tech weaponry.

Here is more than you want to know about the subject.

MB

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[quote author=MossBack link=1598976553/30#30 date=1599819491]HD , Please do not confuse a lowly edible apple with a youngsters high tech weaponry.

Here is more than you want to know about the subject.

MB

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Your projectiles seem rather benign.

Growing up, I happened to live very near several vacant lots that had been eroded by rain runoff to create a series of "ditches," some of which were 4 feet or more deep.  They made for excellent concealment and some protection when engaged in "clod" fights.  By "clod" fights, I don't exactly mean dirt clots because with a little searching, you could usually find a vein of clay in the ditches.  After a rain the clay was malleable and could easily be shaped into a ball.  In preparation for a clod fight, you would fashion a number of projectiles and place them in the sun to dry for a day or two.  Not quite as hard a a brick, but close. 

Sometimes, to speed up the manufacture process, rocks were placed in the center and clay wrapped around it.  It gave the projectile a nice heft.  In the heat of battle, you sometimes ran out of the projectiles with clay adornment and just went directly to the stash of rocks.

If you were especially devilish, you could also go looking for pieces of petrified wood that was scattered about.  The trick was to find pieces with sharper edges and long enough to be partially imbedded in a clay ball.

The fights generally ended shortly after blood was drawn.  Needless to say, there were almost no kids in the neighborhood that didn't have a scar or two from those skirmishes.  Stitches were generally not required.

dd

DentonDoc wrote on Sep 11^th, 2020 at 5:08pm:

[quote author=MossBack link=1598976553/30#30 date=1599819491]HD , Please do not confuse a lowly edible apple with a youngsters high tech weaponry. Here is more than you want to know about the subject. MB   (You need to Login or Register Your projectiles seem rather benign. Growing up, I happened to live very near several vacant lots that had been eroded by rain runoff to create a series of "ditches," some of which were 4 feet or more deep.  They made for excellent concealment and some protection when engaged in "clod" fights.  By "clod" fights, I don't exactly mean dirt clots because with a little searching, you could usually find a vein of clay in the ditches.  After a rain the clay was malleable and could easily be shaped into a ball.  In preparation for a clod fight, you would fashion a number of projectiles and place them in the sun to dry for a day or two.  Not quite as hard a a brick, but close.  Sometimes, to speed up the manufacture process, rocks were placed in the center and clay wrapped around it.  It gave the projectile a nice heft.  In the heat of battle, you sometimes ran out of the projectiles with clay adornment and just went directly to the stash of rocks. If you were especially devilish, you could also go looking for pieces of petrified wood that was scattered about.  The trick was to find pieces with sharper edges and long enough to be partially imbedded in a clay ball. The fights generally ended shortly after blood was drawn.  Needless to say, there were almost no kids in the neighborhood that didn't have a scar or two from those skirmishes.  Stitches were generally not required. dd

   ;D ;D ;D

  My how things have changed. When I was a kid I was running barefoot thru a vacant lot and stepped on a dry stalk about the size of a lead pencil.

It punctured my heel and impeded itself about 4" deep. I limp home bleeding like a stuck pig. My Dad a old farm boy takes me in the garage and gets some Turpentine and a clean shop rag and cleans off the blood/dirt and says "this is nothing, I'll take care of it". He grabs a pair of needle nose pliers, tells me to bite down on this rag and he pulls it out. Put's some turpentine in one of those little bulbs you use to check the acid in a battery and squirts it up into the hole.

Did that a couple of times and then slapped some farmers salve on it, Dad said it worked good on animals and humans.  :-? ;D ;D

Got some gauze from my Mom and then wrapped my heel in DUCT tape and said " Did you LEARN anything today?"

  I said I should wear my tennis shoes when running in fields. He smiled and sent me on my way.

We use to have BB gun fights in the state forest across the street. Rule #1 you could shoot anyone above the shoulders. That didn't last long.

Every kid in the neighborhood that had a BB gun had welts all over their bodies and wore them as a sign of pride.

Nowadays we'd all be in juvenile detention/therapy and our parents would be fighting endless lawsuits.  ;) ;D :P

OS, such rapier-like wit! I'm going to make a fortune with you!

I DID quit my day job... 8-)

Old Salt wrote on Sep 12^th, 2020 at 3:25am:

I DID quit my day job... 8-)

Here I thought you worked nights!

As of today, I have not heard anything from Copia. Their website has no information about next year, except that the dates are March 12-14, 2021.  8-)

Midwest Mountaineering is doing virtual seminars for the Fall Expo in November. Their website will have more information as it gets closer. 8-)

I’m continuing to improve my sleep habits each night. ;)

Had to chuckle at the accounts of what we did as kids.  It sure was a different world back then.  I'm surprised that we survived some of the stunts we pulled! 

I think some of the funniest books I've ever read were by Patrick McManus.  He wrote a monthly column for Field and Stream as well.  In his books he recounts various episodes of himself growing up as a farm boy in Idaho.  A few of the titles I remember are "A Fine and Pleasant Misery", "They Shoot Canoes, Don't They" along with others I can't recall.

Unfortunately, I could relate well to his outdoor adventures as they were very similar to ours although he didn't seem to be a childhood  explosives expert as we were.

Stay safe.......

I am fortunate to have all of his humor books.   I now closely identify with his story...
"The Care and Feeding of Old Men"

Thrift Books and other re-sellers often have his hardback books for just a few bucks.

MB

MB.....I'll look some of them up.  I could use a little extra humor these days!

Stay safe.........

Mr. Peebles.......odd you would mention childhood explosives use.  At the age of nine I lost eyelashes, eyebrows and the front half of my stylish burr haircut.......to a homemade carbide cannon that my older brother helped me build from a 1950's Popular Mechanics magazine.   I think it took a couple of months off his life when the orange tongue of flame wrap briefly around my head.

No harm done,

MB

Yup.  Our favorite tool of the trade was a CO2 cartridge from a pellet gun (which by itself got us into more trouble than one could imagine but also shot a crap load of rabbits).  We'd saw off the end cap and fill them with match heads if we wanted a rocket and fill them with gunpowder when we wanted to blow something up. We actually made a gun to fire the match head missiles from.  We blew up some pretty hefty stuff with the others.  Rattled many a window.  Timers were Jetex fuse inside a lit cigarette.  Our lab was anyone's basement who's parents were gone.  I guess that's why I can relate to the movie "October Sky" although those guys were at least sixteen times smarter than we were.

For obvious reasons I  believe in guardian angels.

We also stayed in pretty good shape running from the local police.

Stay safe........  (Boy, that's ironic!)

Well, If Copia is back on next Spring, I'm sure we can find an open field for pyrotechnic demonstrations  :D :D. Might need a permit though in Wisconsin? ;D

Yeah, I sure hope things get back on track by next spring!   Getting back on topic, I'd enjoy nothing more than getting together at Copia!  Me thinks that there'll be some grand adventures planned for next summer!!

Speaking of grand adventures, what is everyone planning to do next year if travel permits?

For myself, I'm still planning the cross country bike paddle ;) However I'm thinking of splitting the ride over two years so I can go on a wilderness canoe trip (or two) in late summer as well.  I recently introduced my bike to my canoes in the storage garage and they seem to get along pretty well.  I'm thinking of cross breeding them.

I have been employed by the same company for almost 47 years.    My wife has become accustomed to me being gone for only 10 days or so, generally once per year, occasionally twice.

After this year's years Covid burn I have been reminding her for months that she should expect me to be gone Up North for a high percentage of the 2021 soft water season.

My scheduled retirement in 77 days should help facilitate those plans. 

First stop will be Copia.   Looking forward to seeing some old friends and making some new ones.

MB

MB & MP,

I hope the border opens up for you guys; I sincerely do.  However, I don't believe it will.  With that likelihood in mind (and after more than my fair of share days spent in the BWCA trips in 2020) I will make the most of an expected "down year" and relocate, in retirement, from MN to alligator country.  Alas, only the prospect of proximity to future grandchildren can get me to live there.  Otherwise, I would much rather be dealing with Esox lucius, our Northern version of alligators.

For what it's worth, I fully expect to return to the North woods in 2022 (and in for many years beyond).  Heck, if DentonDoc and others can routinely make long treks north, so can I.  I've done it before from NC & NJ.  On the other hand, the luxury of my past couple decades of being spoiled with 2-3 trips per season, will likely become something of memory rather than my Reality.

I know of other QJers who "read the tea leaves" much as I do.  They are planning "alternative adventures" on a grand scale for 2021, of similar ilk to what mpeebles has contemplated.  For instance, one website luminary plans to paddle the length of the Mississippi next year (how I would love to join him!).  Also, as I understand it, MagicPaddler intends to start next year's border challenge buck naked and armed with only a Ferrocium rod and camp knife... which he must use to whittle his paddle and raft.  If anyone can pull that off, he can.

We do indeed have a bold and adventurous crowd on QJ.  I very much look forward to following their plans and escapades in 2021!

Later,

Jimbo   8-)

Jimbo -

Although I expect we will be companions again on future canoe trips, I will definitely miss stopping by your place enroute to canoe country even when we were not tripping together.  Many thanks for all of your assistance and hospitality over the years.

I definitely understand the draw to be near grand children.  However, being a southern boy, there is no chance I'll be moving to the Chicago area to be near mine.  I hope you and Florida hit it off!

I'm still hoping for a 2021 season, but very doubtful about a 'copia show this year.  Either way, I'd likely miss the next 'copia event because a production of "Guys & Dolls" I was supposed to be in early THIS year has been reschedule to go up in March of 2021 (which I'm also very doubtful will happen).

Becoming "Covid weary!"

dd

DD,

Likewise, re: MY appreciation for YOUR assistance on the portage trail that year I struggled just prior to my full hip replacement (as well as for being "camp chef" a few times, etc. & so on).  Yes, I'm sure we'll team up again... and, if it's in a tandem (admittedly unlikely), I PROMISE to cede the stern to you!

Any chance you're doing either the Marlon Brando or Frank Sinatra role?  Do you get to sing in English this time?

Jimbo   8-)

Jimbo......you are killing me.    No one has ever accused me of being an optimist, but I still believe some sanity will return and the gates to the North will open sometime in 2021

MB....Congrats on the retirement thing!  Just speaking for myself retirement is a good phase of my life....so far!  However, I'm not too sure that I like being listed in the last column of the actuary tables  :-[

MossBack wrote on Oct 14^th, 2020 at 3:29pm:

Jimbo......you are killing me.    No one has ever accused me of being an optimist, but I still believe some sanity will return and the gates to the North will open sometime in 2021

A creative mind might find significant consumer appetite and an enthusiastic market here for a "Quetico Virtual Reality Game" in 2021.  Just think, you simply plop your Wenonah in the back yard swimming pool and hop in to get started.  Set up a fan nearby to circulate the air a bit, add a little pine scent, slip on a head set and goggles,  and - poof/voila! - there you are!  Loons singing to you in stereo as you blow down Crooked Lake, gentle wavelets lapping against kevlar on your starboard (fan-side) bow.  Heck, a smart game-maker might even include a bottle housing a few dozen skeeters to be released by a spouse or trusted loved one once you are deep into the pseudo-experience.  It would evoke a REAL "wilderness feel."

I'm sure if several of us gave it some thought, we could come up with many more enhancements!  Such a game would be a sure-fire winner next year, I'm guessing....

Jimbo   8-)

Virtual mosquitoes? 

Jimbo wrote on Oct 14^th, 2020 at 3:04pm:

Any chance you're doing either the Marlon Brando or Frank Sinatra role?  Do you get to sing in English this time?

Yep.  Sky Masterson (Marlon Brando).  And, yes.  English (not Italian) this time.

dd

mpeebles wrote on Oct 14^th, 2020 at 5:34pm:

Virtual mosquitoes?

Problem is: you don't get the full "biting" effect from the virtual variety... unless you opt for $178 "Mini-Electrodes Mosquito-Bite Accessory Package" (unavailable in some states).  Electrodes  get wired around all of your tender parts to simulate reality. 

Personally, I prefer the low-tech option for its "real-feel" and for the pleasure I derive from smashing the little b__tards heads in.

Different strokes for different folks, I guess.

Jimbo   8-)

Another option.  Buy a bunch of cheap drones.  Invite your kids/grandkids or pull some in from the neighborhood.  You sit in your canoe with a flyswatter while they buzz your head and other vulnerable body parts...imagine the fun you'd all have!!  And the squeals and shrieks continue till you're bleeding all over and the drones are dead...just like in canoe country in late-June....

Back to topic. I just got an email from Copia, and they are planning for virtual presentations. They are hoping to return to a live event in 2022.

If we all wear bubble suits, we could gather "non-virtually" at the Country Inn. Drinking and eating might be an interpretive exercise though. Open to suggestions.

Old Salt wrote on Oct 20^th, 2020 at 4:30pm:

Back to topic. I just got an email from Copia, and they are planning for virtual presentations. They are hoping to return to a live event in 2022.

I thought we were on topic!  Jimbo, is there still time to invest in your idea?  I have $2.16 in a savings account that is not making any money.   You are a great thinker among mankind! 

I am way overdue for a road trip already.  By March it will have reached critical mass. 
I am planning to be at Copia even if it is closed again and I have to stand with my nose pressed against the window and pretend I am inside.   Surely we can find someplace to gather for a Bull Session.

MB

A couple of you have suggested getting together next year, in spite of the decision that has been made that Copia will be a virtual event March 12-14, 2021. This poll is intended to be a virtual ‘show of hands’ to indicate whether something should be organized. Of course, it may be that nothing needs to be organized. What would probably help us decide is if we can get an idea of interest and commitment level. The Country Inn & Suites is behind and close to the Rutabaga store. They plan to have the usual discount during the weekend. 8-)

What say you? 8-)

OS,

The first thing I say is: I thought your Copia QJ Get-Together organizing days were done?

The second thing I say is: Sounds like a good idea; wish I could be there.  That, however, is highly unlikely due to personal circumstances in 2021.

The third thing I say is: I applaud your initiative.  If you guys issue official QJ face masks, I hope somebody will send me one.

Make mine pink, please.

Jimbo   8-)

Jimbo, You are correct, my organizing for Copia is done. If this happens, I’m not sure I can be there. If organization happens, it will be because someone else takes the reins. This is just a poll to see if it’s worth the effort. Time will tell. 8-)

You might have guessed by now that I am a "YES" I would attend.

MB

If someone will organize this, you can email or pm me for details and I will provide them. Thanks! 8-)

I would definitely be up for a get together.

I'm all for the idea of a get together and as OS noted, Rutabaga is just down the street...practically portaging distance - a nice flat portage at that.  At this point, I'm uncertain of plans and not able to commit.

pd

Nope.  While I’d like to attend, I’m not likely to be flying again until Covid is pretty much in our rear view mirror and I’m not driving (solo) for four days to attend a two day event.

dd

I'm on the fence on this one. I'll wait and see how we are all doing when that time rolls around.