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Message started by intrepid_camper on Dec 9th, 2006 at 9:54am

Title: 99 Rules for Fail-safe camping
Post by intrepid_camper on Dec 9th, 2006 at 9:54am
I've been contemplating this thread for a while, winter seems like a good time to start it.  I hope you will all pitch in.  I did this exercise at home and came up with at least 56 rules of my own.  Here are some of the top ones:
1- Use your personal flotation device.
2- Always tie your canoe to shore and to a tree when in camp.
3- Bring a compass and know how to use it.
4- Bring several kinds of incendiary devices, so to always be able to start a fire.
5- Bring along lots of rope.
6- Double and triple bag your food stuffs.
7- Always hang your food pack.
8- Collect fire wood before dark.
9- Leave your route plan and day of return with your loved ones at home.
10- Know how to identify poison ivy plants.
11- Have a dependable, water proof, rain fly packed.
12- Pack for all kinds of weather (hot, cold, wet, windy).
13- Make camp before supper time(4:30-5:00 pm).
14- Keep a clean camp, no food out or strewn on ground.
15- Know basic first aid and take along a basic first aid kit.
16- Pack good sun screen and bug repellant.
17- Pack two flashlights, in case one is lost or quits.
18- Drink plenty of water and stay hydrated.
19- Do not get too close to moose.
20- Make small fires, not bon-fires.
21- Do not pitch your tent under dead trees.
22- Do not pitch your tent down wind from the fire.
23- Take good maps and know where you are at all times.
24- Have a pack of absolutely water proof matches with you.

I KNOW we can come up with at least 99 together.... 8-)

Title: Re: 99 Rules for Fail-safe camping
Post by Wenonah Rider on Dec 9th, 2006 at 10:30am
I_C,

You have a great list started.  To it I would like to add:

Bring an extra paddle (for those of us with canoes)....just in case

Bring extra food...just in case

I am sure that other things will come to mind but I will let others add their thoughts.  This will become a good check list for next year's trips.  None of the items listed should come up on the "items forgotten" thread  ;)

WR    

Title: Re: 99 Rules for Fail-safe camping
Post by old_salt on Dec 9th, 2006 at 10:35am
Before someone else says it, #7 should read, "Never hang a bear pinata in camp".  ;D


Title: Re: 99 Rules for Fail-safe camping
Post by Ancient_Angler on Dec 9th, 2006 at 11:58am
Great start on a list. A couple of thoughts:

Bring more plastic bags than you can possibly use.

Don't skimp on the quality of a rain tarp.

Don't skimp on the quality of paddles (and that means the plastic ones outfitters supply).

My friend Larry will understand the origin of all these.

Tim


Title: Re: 99 Rules for Fail-safe camping
Post by thecanoeman on Dec 9th, 2006 at 2:04pm
Make sure all of the woman in the group have plenty of tampon's, regardless if they think they need it or not.
I made this mistake once and have never forgotten it since.

thecanoeman

Title: Re: 99 Rules for Fail-safe camping
Post by Ancient_Angler on Dec 9th, 2006 at 2:07pm
Canoeman:

I admire your wisdom. Would not have dared, myself. That's like answering the question,"Does this dress make me look fat?"

Tim

Title: Re: 99 Rules for Fail-safe camping
Post by fishinbuddy on Dec 9th, 2006 at 2:59pm
Interesting idea:  as we add ideas we should keep the numbers going.  Might need to have a moderator do that.
Repair kit to include duct tape, goop( or waterproof cement), thread, thin wire.
Do not attempt to travel beyond your capabilities, too far, too rugged, too long.  Know your limits.



Title: Re: 99 Rules for Fail-safe camping
Post by Kawishiway on Dec 9th, 2006 at 3:17pm
I know this is fun... and I do NOT want to spoil the party...but...

  (You need to Login or Register

Yet the above button is the QJ camping gear list...not... 99 rules.  Though many things overlap.

It appears this group is well on it's way to mention rules never thought of, including some thought b4 unmentionable.

:-X

 

Title: Re: 99 Rules for Fail-safe camping
Post by db on Dec 9th, 2006 at 3:48pm

Kawishiway wrote on Dec 9th, 2006 at 3:17pm:
I know this is fun... and I do NOT want to spoil the party...but...

  (You need to Login or Register

Yet the above button is the QJ camping gear list...not... 99 rules.  Though many things overlap.

It appears this group is well on it's way to mention rules never thought of, including some thought b4 unmentionable.

FWIW - Currently on the gear list, you cannot add to or comment on the list items. It became 144 pages of pure spam heaven. The one page I left as bait gets about 10 'probably extremely useful' comment attempts per day.

Don't know what I'll do with that section of QJ. You can still read and create a list to print so it's a low priority.

Title: Re: 99 Rules for Fail-safe camping
Post by Wind-In-Face on Dec 9th, 2006 at 5:27pm


NO FOIL in the fire pit.

Do not dump garbage in the privy. (BW)

If you camp on an island, poop on the mainland. (Q)

Last thing you do when leaving a campsite: do a walk around. Police the area.

Don't pound nails into trees, or carve your initials, etc.

If you bring an axe/hatchet/saw, make sure it is sharp.

Don't dispose of fishguts in or near camp.

Learn how to laugh when things get tough. Especially at yourself.  ;D

WiF




Title: Re: 99 Rules for Fail-safe camping
Post by db on Dec 9th, 2006 at 11:15pm
Let's stick to personal safety. (I know, it's hard.)

-Shoes are a good idea when swimming.
-The stern paddler always (generally) exits the canoe first.

Title: Re: 99 Rules for Fail-safe camping
Post by Paddlin_Mark_and_Amy on Dec 9th, 2006 at 11:22pm
If it is safer, (due to weight or difficulty) double or triple portage

There is absolutely nothing to be gained by hurting ones self.

M and A

Title: Re: 99 Rules for Fail-safe camping
Post by flpaddler on Dec 10th, 2006 at 6:14am
Good thread,

Carry a small survival kit on your person, compass, knife, signal device, food , fire, and shelter.


flp

Title: Re: 99 Rules for Fail-safe camping
Post by azalea on Dec 10th, 2006 at 9:49am
Sorry to be negative, but I disagree with the premise.  The usefulness of any thing like this is inversely proportional to its length.  Look what lawyers do, they make so much fine print, nobody reads it making it totally useless (for the reader).

If you want this to be useful, figure out the most important items and make a top 10 list.  I think WiF's last item, slightly modified, covers many things listed separately by others:

 1. Expect and plan for the worst, hope for the best. "Learn how to laugh when things get tough. Especially at yourself."

Title: Re: 99 Rules for Fail-safe camping
Post by kanoes on Dec 10th, 2006 at 11:19am
if you dont already wear glasses, bring along a pair of safety glasses and wear them when collecting and processing firewood. i scratched a cornea on the  first day of a 4 day trip once.  if youve ever scratched a cornea youll know how the rest of the trip went.  Jan   :'(

Title: Re: 99 Rules for Fail-safe camping
Post by Jimbo on Dec 10th, 2006 at 12:12pm
Stick to the portage trail.  "Short cuts" may be ill-advised.                     Jimbo   8-)

Title: Re: 99 Rules for Fail-safe camping
Post by DentonDoc on Dec 10th, 2006 at 2:06pm

Jimbo wrote on Dec 10th, 2006 at 12:12pm:
Stick to the portage trail.


wrote on Dec 10th, 2006 at 11:19am:
if you dont already wear glasses, bring along a pair of safety glasses and wear them when collecting and processing firewood.(

Since these two posts are back to back, I'll just add that wearing safety glasses on portages is not a bad idea either.  You never know when portaging a canoe whether or not one of those alder limbs might decide to work its way under and smack you in the face.

I DO wear glasses, but I switch to my "owl" lenses when I go into the backcountry.  The large lenses cover more of my face (not very fashionable, but then that's not the point), are shatter resistant and the frames you can almost tie in a knot.  In addition, since I need help near AND far, I specifically had the lenses made as bi-focal but with only about the last 1/4 inch taken up with the bi-focal lense.  This means, I can still see the ground effectively when portaging, but still have enough lense left to tie knots in flshing line and read maps, compass, etc.  (And yes, getting lenses ground this way always produces an argument with the lab folks.)

BTW:  If you NEED lenses, I'd recommend taking a backup pair.

Title: Re: 99 Rules for Fail-safe camping
Post by Wind-In-Face on Dec 10th, 2006 at 4:36pm
OK, if personal safety is the focus...

Rule #1: THINK!
      as in...think about the guy in the stern when casting from the bow
            ...think about what's below the surface when jumping off this cliff
            ...think about this tentsite if it rains; or gets windy
            ...think about where I set my canoe at the end of the portage, in case someone else needs some room
            ...think about how hot that pot handle is before I grab it bare-handed
            ...think who's behind me when I grab this branch on the portage
            ...think about staying in camp if the wind is up
            ...think about taking it a little slower on the portage trail; what's the rush?
            ...think about where you put your raingear, BEFORE you start paddling
            ...think about putting footwear on when making a night time nature call
            ...think about the consequences of NOT taking the time to filter this drinking water
            ...think about taking a compass bearing BEFORE making a big open water crossing
            ...think about poison ivy when "exploring" or bushwhackng
            ...think about how far your partner will have to haul your butt if you do something stupid and get hurt
            ...think about not cussing on a portage when others are around, in case they don't appreciate it

think I'll give it a break ;)

WiF

Title: Re: 99 Rules for Fail-safe camping
Post by buz on Dec 11th, 2006 at 8:10am
WIF, That is a great post.  You can bring all the good stuff for safety, be smart on the trail, and not thinking for one small thing can ruin trip, as Kanoes can testify with the wood chip in the cornea.

You can play the "what if and what should I bring to be totally prepared"  when packing, but once out in the woods it is one hundred percent the thinking thing that will avoid issues.

I would also advise as Jimbo noted to stick not only to portage trails, but obviously use them where they begin and end.  We all know running rapids is dumb, but trying to go farther down or up the slow moving river to avoid portaging often leads to bushwack, turn around or other problems, as I and others can surely attest to.

Title: Re: 99 Rules for Fail-safe camping
Post by intrepid_camper on Dec 11th, 2006 at 11:01am
Guess I didn't THINK how wide this topic could get!  Counted 62 rules so far....
63- Don't swim in the rapids...THINK about the tree snags hidden under water you could get tangled in.
64-  Don't eat wild food items unless you are sure they are safe...there are several with look-alike counterparts which are deadly.
65-  Don't pitch your tent under White Pines on hot summer days...they rain pitch droplets.
66-  Cover your firewood or put it under the canoe or tarp at night to have dry kindling in the morning.
67-  Collect some birch bark along your portages.  It is easier to find there and you always will have a dry supply.
68-  Traveling in the rain?  Put two or three 2 inch diameter beaver sticks under your packs on bottom of canoe to keep them dryer.  

Title: Re: 99 Rules for Fail-safe camping
Post by Bannock on Dec 11th, 2006 at 1:27pm
It's better to pack 3 partial rolls of TP rather than one large one.  They should be packed waterproof and in different packs.  Bark, leaves, and pine needles are not good substitutes.   :)

Title: Re: 99 Rules for Fail-safe camping
Post by db on Dec 12th, 2006 at 2:23am
A stern paddler's job is to 'maintain course' in an efficient manner but a good bow paddler knows they can, and should, apply steering strokes whenever they determine it's necessary. ;)

Title: Re: 99 Rules for Fail-safe camping
Post by Yellowbird on Dec 12th, 2006 at 12:56pm
If you fish, bring along needle nose pliers for hook removal.  Tie on a lanyard with carbiner on the loose end to clip onto a thwart.  

-YB

Title: Re: 99 Rules for Fail-safe camping
Post by intrepid_camper on Dec 12th, 2006 at 9:08pm
YB, Maybe a needle nose with wire cutting option, then it could also be used to cut the barb if buried in human flesh instead of fish flesh.

Title: Re: 99 Rules for Fail-safe camping
Post by kanoes on Dec 13th, 2006 at 7:57pm
GREAT call Intrepid!

Title: Re: 99 Rules for Fail-safe camping
Post by Bannock on Dec 15th, 2006 at 10:41am
How about trying the recipe at home first before committing to take it on a trip.  Nothing worse than to discover that supper is some gross concoction that no one will eat.  After all, there is no refrigerator to raid.


Title: Re: 99 Rules for Fail-safe camping
Post by DL-North on Dec 15th, 2006 at 12:46pm
The only "rule" is THINK about what you are doing, always, and don't blindly follow ANY other rule.

As soon as you stop thinking, something will happen.

Dan


Title: Re: 99 Rules for Fail-safe camping
Post by old_salt on Dec 15th, 2006 at 7:35pm
I've found that even if you do think...stuff happens!  :P

Title: Re: 99 Rules for Fail-safe camping
Post by kanoes on Dec 15th, 2006 at 7:50pm
thinking gives me a headache.   if at all possible, i avoid it.   Jan

Title: Re: 99 Rules for Fail-safe camping
Post by intrepid_camper on Dec 15th, 2006 at 8:32pm
74 - Tread extremely carefully when crossing wet rocks or logs; they are very slippery.
75 - Always have a plan just in case that bear does come into camp.  Sleep with amik mitig club.
76 - Don't forget the coffee.

Title: Re: 99 Rules for Fail-safe camping
Post by intrepid_camper on Dec 15th, 2006 at 8:36pm
77 - Treat being tired, wet and cold (Hypthermia) as the greatest deadly sin.

Title: Re: 99 Rules for Fail-safe camping
Post by kanoes on Dec 15th, 2006 at 8:49pm
when wittling wood....ALWAYS cut AWAY from your body parts!   yes...that WAS me at that campsite!    Jan

Title: Re: 99 Rules for Fail-safe camping
Post by CG9603 on Dec 15th, 2006 at 9:31pm
Another rule:  Murphy's Law will be in effect at all times.  

Title: Re: 99 Rules for Fail-safe camping
Post by Spartan2 on Dec 16th, 2006 at 6:18am
No cotton socks.

Title: Re: 99 Rules for Fail-safe camping
Post by Kawishiway on Dec 16th, 2006 at 6:45am
Carry more than one Compass.

Compasses do break.

Compasses do get miss placed / forgotten / dropped along the portage trail.

Most wilderness compasses float, been known to rise out of unbuttoned pockets while submerged, catching the slightest current, deciding upon an adventure of their own.... without their owners.

If you do break / misplace / or see your last / only compass on your person / pack float away.... ASK others you may have the good fortune of crossing paths with if they have a spare. Negotiate if you must. You may find that some are reluctant to part with their spare if it is their only spare.

Some are known to carry 3 or more compasses. (Oh...but the extra weight is killing me...not) One in their map case, one around their neck or in a buttoned pocket, one in their pack or attached to their pack.

For goodness sake, do not rely on a GPS as your only source or type of navigation tool. Clouds have away of rendering them senseless.    

If you do get lost... (play this game long enough and you will), get found.

k

Title: Re: 99 Rules for Fail-safe camping
Post by TwistTieCollector on Dec 16th, 2006 at 8:24am
Never let itinerary or time constraints drive your decisionmaking when faced with an issue dealing with weather.  Getting there a day late is far better than never getting there at all.

Title: Re: 99 Rules for Fail-safe camping
Post by azalea on Dec 16th, 2006 at 4:15pm

Quote:
do not rely on a GPS as your only source or type of navigation tool.

Wise advice.


Quote:
Clouds have away of rendering them senseless.

For the wrong reason.  Only sensitive instruments could detect the difference weather makes in a GPS signal.  But given Murphy's law, alternate navigational tools are advisable.      

While I would NOT say a GPS is a required piece of saefty gear, they do provide benefits the compass/map do not.  Low visibility and heavy wind have a way of rendering maps/compass senseless.

Title: Re: 99 Rules for Fail-safe camping
Post by Kawishiway on Dec 16th, 2006 at 7:05pm

Quote:
[quote]do not rely on a GPS as your only source or type of navigation tool.

Wise advice.


Quote:
Clouds have away of rendering them senseless.

For the wrong reason.  Only sensitive instruments could detect the difference weather makes in a GPS signal. But given Murphy's law, alternate navigational tools are advisable.      

While I would NOT say a GPS is a required piece of safety gear, they do provide benefits the compass/map do not.  Low visibility and heavy wind have a way of rendering maps/compass senseless.[/quote]

Come to think of it, it has been several years since I have taken a GPS into the woods.  The Garmin model I originally borrowed, from a gracious lender, approximately a decade ago, did not do well in cloudy weather and would not give a reading from the inside of a vehicle.  I understand that GPS's do give readings well today from inside of a vehicle as I own a newer GPS Legend that goes on most road trips with me.  Grateful for the advice as I now know it's worth giving a look see on overcast and rainy days as well.

k

Title: Re: 99 Rules for Fail-safe camping
Post by Kawishiway on Dec 17th, 2006 at 7:58pm
Be willing to take advise from other seasoned paddlers. Don't let pride get in your way. You never know it all and you may have forgotten some of the things you once understood.
 
Thanks Azalea.

k

Title: Re: 99 Rules for Fail-safe camping
Post by Sca-ish on Dec 18th, 2006 at 6:03pm
never camp on the highest campsite on a lake in a thunderstorm. the results are "shocking"

Title: Re: 99 Rules for Fail-safe camping
Post by Yellowbird on Dec 18th, 2006 at 10:41pm
Has anyone heard the term, "magnetic disturbance"? Here's a bit of info from the Green Bay sectional aeronautical chart (published by the FAA), which covers the BWCA.

"Magnetic disturbance of as much as 12 degrees exists at ground level between Tower and Ely" . . . as much as 18 degrees . . . from Duluth to Grand Marias".

I'm certain it has to do with the iron ore in the region. Compass error will be constant in a given area, therefore local deviation can be recorded and noted on your maps. Plot a straight line course and read the heading from your GPS. Subtract the difference of the GPS heading to what the compass reads to get the deviation.

-YB

Title: Re: 99 Rules for Fail-safe camping
Post by DL-North on Dec 21st, 2006 at 10:03am
YB,

Yes, magnetic disturbance of compasses has long been seen/noted by folks on the iron range.

And in fact, that's how the Mesabi range was 1st discovered by the Merritt brothers of Duluth, who were also known as the "Seven Iron Men".  They basically used a compass, to locate and map the iron deposits of the Mesabi in the ground. They would walk over an area in a systematic pattern, taking compass readings at given locations, I believe both direction and strength, and then mapped it later.

At the time most mining folks didn't believe them but after they dug a few test pits and got the dirt tested the "run" was on.

Dan
   

Title: Re: 99 Rules for Fail-safe camping
Post by blackstick on Dec 21st, 2006 at 11:32am
PRATICE before you go!

This means with new gear, new techniques (setups with that tarp), and as Bannock already said, new recipes.

Title: Re: 99 Rules for Fail-safe camping
Post by windsailor on Dec 21st, 2006 at 5:46pm
WOW! what a great read...rule #101 never, ever drop your bag of weed on the portage trail,...someone else is likely smoke it for you..

funny nobodies mentioned safty rules and regulation reguarding pink flamingos or where they fit the whole Fail-safe camping...concrete one also double as an anchor in a pinch!


///windsailor

Title: Re: 99 Rules for Fail-safe camping
Post by solotripper on Dec 22nd, 2006 at 5:28pm
Wind sailors "weed" rule brings to mind the following story!!
My first trip to the BW 20 yrs ago or more was with 6 other guys.
This was the trip with the "topless" college paddlers ;)
3 of the guys were from Atlanta, with one having Mi roots and is how the other two came on the trip.

DAN, and one of the Atlanta guys are/were hard living guys!!
Were all children of the sixties but other than some cannabis, by then I was basically a beer guy.
One night we get into camp and DAN and his paddling buddy announced out of  the blue that they don't like the chosen campsite and are going to camp on a island about 1/4 mi away.
Seemed strange to me because we had just caught a mess of lakers and they wanted to leave?

I didn't make to much of an effort to change there mind because Dan's paddling buddy and one of the Mi boys had developed a instant dislike for each other and had almost come to blows!
So they paddled over sans trout and promised to be back in morning for breakfast and early start.
We had a great meal(first laker for me) and enjoyed a nice campfire.
We could see there fire as well and what seemed like a WHOLE lot of flashlight use around the campfire and some loud unintelligible sounds late into the night??
Well morning came and they didn't show?? We paddled over to find them still in tents.
Of course we were pissed and rudely got them up and then the REAL truth came out!!

Seems like Dan's buddy had brought some Columbian nose candy on the trip!!
Somewhere in the area of a 1/4 ounce!!
And being the kind of guy's they were they figured(wrongly i might add)that we would want some and so they concocted that story to keep it all for themselves :-? :-?
Well the irony of that plan is that somehow while setting  up camp and "snorting", they lost the "candy"!!
The flashlight use was there futile attempt to find it!!!
Well the rest of us laughed our collective butts off and when they asked  us to search with them refused and laughed even harder!!
We had the maps, and so they were forced to leave there precious illicit cargo and suffer derision and ridicule the rest of the trip!!
Over the years I always wondered what happened to it??
I NOW have a theory of what happened??

In the recent post"WHAT IS THIS" there was a freaked out picture of some poor woodland creature that looked like mother natures version of a strung out coke head!!
CSI BW/Q mystery solved!!! ;) ;)

Title: Re: 99 Rules for Fail-safe camping
Post by windsailor on Dec 24th, 2006 at 9:53am
;D ;D ;D ;D [smiley=thumbup.gif]
case closed!!! that was a good read with an accidental outcome reveeled.

I think we could start a new subject reguarding "day trippers" and "other sorts". I've come accross some bizzar folks needing a "CANDY BAR" really bad.


MERRY CHRISTMAS!


//WINDSAILOR

Title: Re: 99 Rules for Fail-safe camping
Post by intrepid_camper on Dec 24th, 2006 at 10:15pm
86 - Avoid pitching your tent in a depression, a drainage valley, or the lowest flat spot in camp.


102 - In the tropics: Do not pitch your tent under coconut bearing palms.  Or in a patch of "sand burs". Or on top or even near a fire ant nest.  Be sure you have no-see-um proof screen.

MERRY CHRISTMAS !    :-*

Title: Re: 99 Rules for Fail-safe camping
Post by starwatcher on Dec 25th, 2006 at 9:42am
I haven’t read all 99 rules, so maybe this rule has already been posted.  We welcome any and all people young (over age 12) and old to join in on our canoeing adventures.  The qualifications require no special experience or talents.  We had a good time, but during the trip there will be moments when you probably require 100% of your physical endurance, but as long as you put in 100% is good enough as long as you do it without whining.  I think of the old SNL and Betty and Barney Whiner.  If nothing can do done to correct the situation there is no point to complain.

Rule 87: No whining.  Whiners are generally drowned on the spot and those that survive are not invited back.

Title: Re: 99 Rules for Fail-safe camping
Post by starwatcher on Dec 25th, 2006 at 5:42pm
Quote Yellowbird:"Has anyone heard the term, "magnetic disturbance"? Here's a bit of info from the Green Bay sectional aeronautical chart (published by the FAA), which covers the BWCA.

"Magnetic disturbance of as much as 12 degrees exists at ground level between Tower and Ely" . . . as much as 18 degrees . . . from Duluth to Grand Marias".

I've conducted magnetic and electromagnetic surveys in N. MN and the iron formations and other ore bodies definately have an influence and cause anomolies on the EM field.  That's how geologists find ore deposits.  The technology developed during WWII that was used for submarine hunters.  The classic tell tale sign is to look at USGS maps and see the deviations of the grid lines across the formations.

Title: Re: 99 Rules for Fail-safe camping
Post by kanoes on Dec 25th, 2006 at 9:22pm
#....whatever.   resist the urge... "i can hop/jump to that next rock, i know i can" ... ankles arent as sturdy as you think.

Jan

Title: Re: 99 Rules for Fail-safe camping
Post by starwatcher on Dec 26th, 2006 at 6:58am
Jan - Patrick McManus, who wrote for Outdoor Life, published a story that described that rule about about great gadgets nobody ever invented included inventing an alarm system that would go off when a hunter or fisherman was "comtemplating whether to cross a peeled sapling over a sixty-foot deep river gorge or possibly to make a running leap to land on a moss-covered rock in the middle of some rapids, the life preserveer would activate automatically and shout through two stereo loudspeakers set at full volume, "DON'T TRY IT, YOU FOOL, DON'T TRY IT!""  :) :D ;D :)

Karl

Title: Re: 99 Rules for Fail-safe camping
Post by screamingwindigo on Dec 26th, 2006 at 9:38am
There's been a few times I could of used that jacket. ;)

Title: Re: 99 Rules for Fail-safe camping
Post by Ancient_Angler on Dec 26th, 2006 at 1:53pm
Failure to wear that jacket caused me a broken finger and a cracked finger on one time and a broken rib and a cracked rib on another.

Is there a way to get the darn thing implanted?

Tim

Title: Re: 99 Rules for Fail-safe camping
Post by starwatcher on Dec 26th, 2006 at 5:59pm
Be careful, three strikes your out.   :(

Title: Re: 99 Rules for Fail-safe camping
Post by BTravlin on Jan 7th, 2007 at 1:46pm
....leave the hatchets and axes at home

....wear long sleeve shirts on travel days; apply bug spray and roll down sleeves before landing at portages

....Crazy Creek chairs are great to float in lake after long, hot travel days

....a small, closed cell foam pad can be strapped to the canoe seat for duration of trip, highly recommended

Title: Re: 99 Rules for Fail-safe camping
Post by Kawishiway on Jan 7th, 2007 at 4:25pm

wrote on Jan 7th, 2007 at 1:46pm:
....a small, closed cell foam pad can be strapped to the canoe seat for duration of trip, highly recommended


Had to laugh upon reading this.  If you ever seen IC tripp'n, you'll see she has a foam pad laid out to support the length of her body as she pretty much lays back traveling in style.  Upon meeting her yah might think...what the....  Although, after further examination, you'll find she is a step ahead of the average camper per most concerns.

The axe?  Naw...don't agree with yah about leaving it at home, BTravlin, yet I do understand your thinking.  I like a small axe, also learned from IC, used with care.


Quote:
....wear long sleeve shirts on travel days; apply bug spray and roll down sleeves before landing at portages

The bug dope..great idea in theory, though I must be a saddist.

Crazy Creek Chairs float?  Hmmn, interesting thought.

Now where did I put my fingers... oh yeah, still attached, knock on wood.

k

Title: Re: 99 Rules for Fail-safe camping
Post by kanoes on Jan 7th, 2007 at 4:39pm
just an observation....i think this is one of the best threads ever on QJ.   Jan

Title: Re: 99 Rules for Fail-safe camping
Post by intrepid_camper on Jan 7th, 2007 at 8:32pm
92...so far...Great job QJ'ers!  Keep them coming...especially like #87.    [smiley=thumbup.gif]

Title: Re: 99 Rules for Fail-safe camping
Post by BTravlin on Jan 8th, 2007 at 1:25pm
Ooops!!! Major ommission on my part.

Don't forget to strap PFD to bottom of Crazy Creeks first, they don't float well enough to hold you up on their own. With the PFD, however, they make a nice waterlounger!

Title: Re: 99 Rules for Fail-safe camping
Post by PhantomJug on Jan 9th, 2007 at 10:37pm
#93.  Always have your jug in sight or on your person.   ;)

Title: Re: 99 Rules for Fail-safe camping
Post by starwatcher on Jan 10th, 2007 at 7:37am
Rule #94 - Always make sure your jug had an air gap.  Brandy is denser than water.

Title: Re: 99 Rules for Fail-safe camping
Post by starwatcher on Feb 12th, 2007 at 7:23am
Have these been listed yet?

#95 Always bring an extra paddle.  

#96 Always bring a set of maps for each canoe.  

#97 Always travel together and don't get too far ahead of the group.

Title: Re: 99 Rules for Fail-safe camping
Post by intrepid_camper on Feb 12th, 2007 at 9:27pm
#98  Always maintain a DRY set of clothes in reserve.

#103  Do not hide your jug too well at bedtime or it may be forgotten when breaking camp.

Title: Re: 99 Rules for Fail-safe camping
Post by Ancient_Angler on Feb 13th, 2007 at 5:01pm
On my trip last year, guys laughed at my night-time bottle. But when the mosquitoes were bad at Yum Yum Lake and they had to leave the tent in the middle of the night....Then they did not think the old man was so dumb!

Tim

Title: 99 Rules for Fail-safe camping, RULE #0 !!!
Post by azalea on Feb 14th, 2007 at 12:02pm
I do not know why I did not think of this earlier.

RULE #0: There is no set of rules that makes camping failsafe!

Title: Re: 99 Rules for Fail-safe camping
Post by intrepid_camper on Feb 14th, 2007 at 12:17pm
True...but the ideas in this thread will go a long way toward risk management.   ;)

Title: Re: 99 Rules for Fail-safe camping
Post by db on Feb 14th, 2007 at 12:29pm
So how many do we have? Anyone want to consolidate it into 99-100? Personally, #0 stays and the limit is 101. Provide me with an easy to read/consider list and I'll gladly make it available...

Title: Re: 99 Rules for Fail-safe camping
Post by starwatcher on Feb 14th, 2007 at 7:02pm
Rain gear is on the list, but I would like to make a point that for our trips you need to bring "quality raingear."  We go late season and can get days of steady rain, drizzle or freezing rain.  Cheap raingear won't do.  It should have some cloth inner lining so it doesn't rip apart on a branch or when stressed, and it should be dense enough like goretex so you have difficulty shucking air through it; otherwise it can become saturated and soak thru and that's when you have potential for hypothermia.

Rule #__ Bring "Quality" (non-cheap) Raingear

Title: Re: 99 Rules for Fail-safe camping
Post by starwatcher on Feb 15th, 2007 at 8:22pm
Rule #94 may be questionable.  Someone suggested that brandy is less dense than water and I can't argue that.  In any case, when it sank we were disappointed.

Title: Re: 99 Rules for Fail-safe camping
Post by intrepid_camper on Feb 15th, 2007 at 8:59pm
We HAVE hit nearly #99 rules.  Db, I'll volunteer to compile the read/consider list; it will take me a few days to accomplish.
I never considered priorities when I started, but #0, #1, and I think #77 should be 1,2,3 on the  final list.  They might be grouped otherwise by items, such as maps/compasses, first aid, fire making, etc. ?
Db, do you mean we are throwing out #101?  After it showed up I arbitrarily decided personally, that these less "vital" topics could be the "hundreds" list.  BTW #93 and #94 might be #104 and #105?
;)

Title: Re: 99 Rules for Fail-safe camping
Post by BrownTrout01 on Feb 15th, 2007 at 9:46pm
#106 To help stay warm in cold weather, always change your socks and other clothes at night.

I agree with the go slow and don't over do it- get hurt- do something stupid thinking, although I always seem break this rule at least once.

Title: Re: 99 Rules for Fail-safe camping
Post by db on Feb 16th, 2007 at 2:12am
Thanks IC. The way I see it, whenever anyone volunteers to do something they get to do it however they think best. Things are never as easy as they look at first but I'm sure that when you get into it, something grouping/order-wise will make sense to you. That'll work for me. I like #0 as #0 and yes, #77 is just as important as #2 IMHO. The final total is unimportant. No rush.

Lots of the things are basic common sense - or were/will be learned the hard way in a dope-slap moment. I know when I did the printable gear list I hard coded "positive attitude" as the first item with no way to delete. It's not gear but important to remember none the less.

Title: Re: 99 Rules for Fail-safe camping
Post by Paddlin_Mark_and_Amy on Feb 16th, 2007 at 6:12pm
After briefly re-reading the posts in this thread I did not see the use of gloves. I think it merits mention. When gathering and cutting wood you should wear leather gloves. Also leather gloves should be used when tending the fire.

Mark

Title: Re: 99 Rules for Fail-safe camping
Post by intrepid_camper on Feb 18th, 2007 at 11:33am
Gloves are a good idea, even tho I hardly ever get around to putting them on.  I use neoprene ones on early and late season trips, so my hands stay dry while paddling.  Also use cotton ones for arranging the fire-pit or as hot pads when cooking, to keep cleaner.
Somewhere there was recently a post on having glasses on in the woods.  Also a good idea; I've had some nasty pokes and slaps by sticks, luckily nothing serious.  Some of my canoeing partners do not have as good eyesight as myself, and more often have trouble with sticks in eyes, seems their eyes do not see the stick coming, and reaction time is slower so injury is more likely.   :(

Title: Re: 99 Rules for Fail-safe camping
Post by flpaddler on Feb 18th, 2007 at 11:53am
I don't know if this quite fits but one of the most useful items that I carry and some times multiples of, are bandanas. They can be used to shade your neck, your ears, wetted tie around your head or your neck for a cooling effect, as a wash cloth, dish rag, dish towel, pot grabber by folding it wrapping it around the pot and twisting the bitter ends together, a hot pad, a filter to remove sediment from water, a tourniquet, a sling, put a rock in it and toss the bear bagging rope over a tree limb, wipe sweet from the brow, use it to remove dew from your tent fly, blow your nose in it (off course after you've filtered your water). truly one of the most versatile piece of equipment you could carry. The uses of a bandana could probably a thread of its own.

flp

Title: Re: 99 Rules for Fail-safe camping
Post by intrepid_camper on Feb 23rd, 2007 at 11:27pm
Fly swatter...worth its weight in gold during ankle-biter season.

Title: Re: 99 Rules for Fail-safe camping
Post by Snow_Dog on Feb 24th, 2007 at 5:41pm

intrepid_camper wrote on Feb 23rd, 2007 at 11:27pm:
Fly swatter...worth its weight in gold during ankle-biter season.


I come equipped with 2 of them.  They also serve many other useful functions involving gripping and manipulation    ;D

I daresay my trips would be much more difficult without 'em.  :o

Title: Re: 99 Rules for Fail-safe camping
Post by intrepid_camper on Feb 25th, 2007 at 12:08pm
Keep the ideas coming...I'm working on a master list, some will be combined so room for a few more "rules" and/or clarifications.   ;)

Title: Re: 99 Rules for Fail-safe camping
Post by Yellowbird on Feb 25th, 2007 at 8:17pm

Snow_Dog wrote on Feb 24th, 2007 at 5:41pm:

intrepid_camper wrote on Feb 23rd, 2007 at 11:27pm:
Fly swatter...worth its weight in gold during ankle-biter season.


I come equipped with 2 of them.  They also serve many other useful functions involving gripping and manipulation    ;D

I daresay my trips would be much more difficult without 'em.  :o


SD,

Don't you normally trip with family members?

-YB

Title: Re: 99 Rules for Fail-safe camping
Post by Snow_Dog on Feb 26th, 2007 at 10:43am
Well, I wasn't exactly trying to reference "going solo" if that's what you mean... ::)

Title: Re: 99 Rules for Fail-safe camping
Post by intrepid_camper on Feb 27th, 2007 at 9:33pm
RULE # 0: There is no set of rules that makes camping failsafe!

Expect and plan for the worst, hope for the best. "Learn how to laugh when things get  tough; especially at yourself."  Above all, THINK! As soon as you stop thinking, something will happen. I've found that even if you do think...stuff happens! Murphy's Law will be in effect at all times.  
Be willing to take advice from other seasoned paddlers. Don't let pride get in your way. You never know it all and you may have forgotten some of the things you once understood.

PERSONAL SAFETY
1- Always use your personal flotation device.
2- Treat being tired, wet and cold (Hypothermia) as the greatest deadly sin.
3- Know your limits. Do not attempt to travel beyond your capabilities, too far, too
rugged, too long.  
4- Never let itinerary or time constraints drive your decision making when faced with an
issue dealing with weather.  Getting there late is far better than not getting there.
5- When whittling wood....ALWAYS cut AWAY from your body parts!
6-Carry a small survival kit on your person, compass, knife, signal device, food, fire,
and shelter.
7-RESIST the urge... "i can hop/jump to that next rock, i know i can" ... ankles aren’t as
sturdy as you think.
8- Do not get too close to animals larger than you…cow moose with calves, bears with
cubs, bull moose in the fall.
9- Don't dive from shore or swim in the rapids.  Tree snags hidden under water could
entangled you.  Think about what's below the surface when diving or jumping.
10- Don't eat wild food items unless you are sure they are safe...there are several with
look-alike counterparts which are deadly.
11 - Tread extremely carefully when crossing wet rocks or logs; they are very slippery.

Title: Re: 99 Rules for Fail-safe camping
Post by intrepid_camper on Feb 27th, 2007 at 9:34pm
NAVIGATION AND COMPASS
12- Bring a compass and know how to use it. ** Take a reading BEFORE you enter the
Woods or begin to cross a huge expanse of water. Remember that magnetic disturbance of as much as 12 degrees exists in the BWCA and Quetico.
13- Take good maps and keep track of where you are at all times.
14- Always bring a set of maps for each canoe.  
15- Always travel together and don't get too far ahead of the group.
16- Always tie your canoe to shore and to a tree when in camp.
17- Bring an extra paddle ....just in case.
18- Stick to the portage trail; use them where they begin and end.  "Short cuts" may be
ill-advised.  We all know running rapids is dumb, but trying to go farther down or up the slow moving river to avoid portaging often leads to bushwhack, turn around or other problems.
19-A stern paddlers’ job is to 'maintain course' in an efficient manner but a good bow
paddler knows they can, and should, apply steering strokes whenever they determine it's necessary.
20- Leave your route plan and day of return with your loved ones at home.
21- Run a rope through all packs and tie to thwart of canoe when worried about potential
capsize or windy paddling.  If you do tip over, your packs will stay with you and canoe.

FIRES AND FOOD
22- Bring several kinds of incendiary devices, so to always be able to start a fire.
23- Have a pack of absolutely water proof matches with you and best if on your person.
24- If you bring an axe/hatchet/saw, make sure it is sharp.
25- Make small fires, not bon-fires.
26- Collect fire wood before dark and put it under the canoe or tarp at night to have dry
kindling in the morning.
27-  Collect some birch bark along your portages.  It is easier to find there and you
will always have a dry supply.
28- Try new recipes at home first before committing to take it on a trip.  Nothing worse
than to discover that supper is some gross concoction that no one will eat.
29- Always hang your food pack.  Best to hang it somewhere the Bear is not expecting it
to be…i.e. NOT above the fireplace, for example.
30- Bring extra food...just in case
31- Double and triple bag your food stuffs.
32- Keep a clean camp, no food out or strewn on ground.
33- Do not dump garbage in the privy. (BW)  Do not dump left over food or scraps in the
water.
34- Use a water filter.  Collect water where it is at least 3 feet deep.  
Never drink out of a beaver pond.  
35 - Always have a plan just in case that bear does come into camp.  Sleep with a big
solid stick, some hand sized rocks to throw, and/or pepper spray.
36 - Don't forget the coffee.
37- When gathering and cutting wood you should wear leather gloves. Also leather
gloves should be used when tending the fire.
38- Bring along a pair of safety glasses and wear them when collecting and processing      
firewood. Wearing safety glasses on portages is not a bad idea either.
39- Follow the recommended packing rules NO cans or glass bottles.
40- NO FOIL in the fire pit.  Take bits of foil out of fire pit and pack them out with you.

FIRST AID
41- Know basic first aid and take along a basic first aid kit.
42- Drink plenty of water and stay hydrated.
43- Know how to identify poison ivy plants.
44- Pack good sun screen and bug repellant.
45-Wear long sleeve shirts on travel days; apply bug spray and roll down sleeves before
landing at portages
46-  If you NEED lenses, take a backup pair.

SHELTER
47- Do not pitch your tent under dead trees or large dead branches.   Consider which way
they lean and where they may land.  
48- Do not pitch your tent down wind from the fire.
49- Have a dependable, water proof, rain fly packed.  Don't skimp on the quality.
50- A southeast facing campsite is generally quieter for wind and weather.  The worst
storms approach from the southwest on hot, humid days.
51- Never camp on the highest campsite on a lake in stormy weather. The results could
     be “shocking”.
52- Avoid pitching your tent in a depression, a drainage valley, or a low flat spot.  
53- Bring along lots of rope.
54- Don't pitch your tent under White Pines on hot summer days...they rain pitch.

Title: Re: 99 Rules for Fail-safe camping
Post by intrepid_camper on Feb 27th, 2007 at 9:37pm
GENERAL CREATURE COMFORTS

55- Maintain a "positive attitude" and practice “patience”.
56- Pack for all kinds of weather (hot, cold, wet, windy).
57- Make camp before supper time (4:30-5:00 pm).
58- Pack two flashlights, in case one is lost or quits; and extra batteries.
59- Bring more plastic bags than you can possibly use.
60- Repair kit to include duct tape, goop( or waterproof cement), thread, thin wire.
61- Don't skimp on the quality of paddles (and that means the plastic ones outfitters
supply).
62- Shoes are a good idea when swimming.
63- If you camp on an island, poop on the mainland. (Q)
64- Learn how to laugh when things get tough. Especially at yourself.
65 - The stern paddler always (generally) exits the canoe first.
66- If it is safer, (due to weight or difficulty) double or triple portage. There is absolutely
     nothing to be gained by hurting ones self.
67- No cotton socks.  At least one pair of wool socks.
68- It's better to pack 3 partial rolls of TP rather than one large one.  They should be
packed waterproof and in different packs.  Bark, leaves, and pine needles are not good substitutes.  
69- Traveling in the rain?  Put two or three 2-inch diameter beaver sticks on bottom of
     canoe under your packs to keep them dryer.
70- Last thing you do when leaving a campsite: do a walk around. Police the area.
71- Double check at portages, that you have not left anything at beginning or end.
72- A small, closed cell foam pad can be strapped to the canoe seat for duration of trip.
73- Bring "Quality" (non-cheap) Rain gear
74- Always maintain a DRY set of clothes in reserve.
75- Fly swatter...worth its weight in gold during ankle-biter season.
76- On my trip last year, guys laughed at my night-time bottle. But when the mosquitoes
were bad they had to leave the tent at night when nature called.
77- To help stay warm in cold weather, always change your socks and other clothes at
night.
78- No whining.  If nothing can be done to correct the situation there is no point to
complain.  Whiners are generally drowned on the spot and those that survive are not invited back.
79- PRATICE before you go!  This means with new gear, new techniques (setups with
that tarp), new recipes, and to get physically into condition.
80- Bandanas; truly one of the most versatile pieces of equipment you could carry. They
can be used to shade your neck, your ears, wetted tie around your head or your neck for a cooling effect, as a wash cloth, dish rag, dish towel, pot grabber by folding it wrapping it around the pot and twisting the bitter ends together, a hot pad, a filter to remove sediment from water, a tourniquet, a sling, put a rock in it and toss the bear bagging rope over a tree limb, wipe sweet from the brow, use it to remove dew from your tent fly, blow your nose in it (off course after you've filtered your water).
81- Think about where you put your raingear, BEFORE you start paddling.
82- Think about putting footwear on when making a night time nature call.

FISHING

83-Bring along needle nose pliers for hook removal.  Tie on a lanyard with
carabineer on the loose end to clip onto a thwart.  A pliers with wire cutting option could also be used to cut the barb if buried in human flesh instead of fish.
84- If landing a very large fish, paddle to shore before bringing it in.
85- You can filet your fish on the bottom of your overturned canoe, or on a paddle blade.
86- Don't dispose of fish guts in or near camp.  
87- Think about the guy in the stern when casting from the bow
88- Be aware that snapping turtles, big pike, otters and mink WILL take advantage of
your fish on the stringer.

AFTERTHOUGHTS

89-  Always have your jug in sight or on your person.  
90-  Always make sure your jug has an air gap.  Brandy is denser than water.
91- Do not hide your jug too well at bedtime or it may be forgotten when breaking camp.
92- Never, ever drop your bag of weed on the portage trail,...someone else is likely to
smoke it for you..

**Carry more than one Compass. Compasses do break, get miss placed / forgotten / dropped along the portage trail.  Do not rely on a GPS as your only source or type of navigation tool.

Title: Re: 99 Rules for Fail-safe camping
Post by intrepid_camper on Feb 27th, 2007 at 9:41pm
Thanks to all the QJ'ers who contributed to this list...I think it is a good and usefull tool.   :)

Title: Re: 99 Rules for Fail-safe camping
Post by Wind-In-Face on Feb 27th, 2007 at 9:48pm
IC,
What a wonderful service you've just provided to everyone. If ever we should meet up in some Ely emporium, the first frosty is on me.
Well done.
WiF

Title: Re: 99 Rules for Fail-safe camping
Post by azalea on Feb 27th, 2007 at 11:47pm
A few items I might not follow but are good for the list nonetheless.  But I do have some suggested revisions:

#14:  Change to "14- Always bring a set of maps and compass for each canoe.   (Do not rely on a GPS as your only source or type of navigation tool."  Then eliminate the comment at the end.

#24:  "If you bring a saw, make sure it is sharp.  If you bring an axe/hatchet, make sure it is dull."

#36: Eliminate "Don't forget the coffee".  (This is a great list and a grocery list does not belong. The items on jugs and weed are OK because they only state what how to handle them if you bring them, they do not say you should bring them.)

#62: "Wear some kind of footwear when swimming".  (This item should be as assertive as the others.)

#76: I would eliminate this one.  IMHO, the risks of an accident post a greater danger than the benefit.

Title: Re: 99 Rules for Fail-safe camping
Post by db on Feb 28th, 2007 at 1:47am
IC - I was about to answer your PM but I checked the board and noticed you did exactly what I was going to suggest.

All - IC started this thread and even went so far as to compile a complete list so as far as I'm concerned, she gets final say on revisions. I only skimmed sa few and while I'd personally quibble with #67 - my suggestion for the last one would be to read and understand all the rules before you decide to ignore them. After all, don't things become rules because someone with a lapse in common sense (or conventional wisdom) learned some lesson?

Title: Re: 99 Rules for Fail-safe camping
Post by flpaddler on Feb 28th, 2007 at 4:54am
Thank You IC for compilking the list and everyone else that contributed, I will print this out and use it for any newbie that travels with me. Rule #78 will be hi-lighted.

Thanks again!

flp

Title: Re: 99 Rules for Fail-safe camping
Post by solotripper on Feb 28th, 2007 at 3:52pm
IF, there was a 10 COMMANDMENTS of tripping, # 78 would be in the top 3 ;D ;D

Title: Re: 99 Rules for Fail-safe camping
Post by BTravlin on Feb 28th, 2007 at 6:56pm
Well done, IC! I too will give a copy to all my newbies on this summer's trip.

Title: Re: 99 Rules for Fail-safe camping
Post by intrepid_camper on Feb 28th, 2007 at 7:18pm
Azalea, IMO
#24     A dull axe, like a dull knife, is more dangerous than a sharp one.
#36     I am not sure I could survive a camping trip without coffee, and I bet there are others of like mind…
#76     Night-time pee bottle should have a good cover, and be placed outside the tent.  You are right about the accidents, but not going out into the mosquitos in June/July   IS  worth it (‘specially for those of us that have to bare our butts!)

:D

Title: Re: 99 Rules for Fail-safe camping
Post by intrepid_camper on Feb 28th, 2007 at 7:25pm
I am glad the thread was so well received.
I actually do not think, except for a very few first "rules", that there is any real order to the list or that there needs to be any priority order to the list.
I thought to call it "suggestions" for fail-safe camping, but that just didn't have the same punch.
 8-)

Title: Re: 99 Rules for Fail-safe camping
Post by kanoes on Feb 28th, 2007 at 7:38pm
you did great IC.  thanks.  btw...i think coffee should definately be considered "fail-safe".
if you tend to forget coffee....pre-plan and have ALOT of advil for the DT headaches that would follow.

Jan

Title: Re: 99 Rules for Fail-safe camping
Post by Spartan2 on Feb 28th, 2007 at 9:21pm
Well, actually, SOME of us are decaffeinated!   ;)

Great list.  You don't have to agree with every single item to still appreciate the total effort.  This has been a good thread, and the result is very thought-provoking.


Title: Re: 99 Rules for Fail-safe camping
Post by intrepid_camper on Mar 1st, 2007 at 11:13am
RE: coffee....maybe we should have said "don't forget your favorite 'comfort' food".  I see coffee as that nice little break that will cheer you up, if wet, cold, exhausted, exasperated, crabby, etc.  I also always bring my favorite 'comfort clothes' to change into (something soft, warm and fuzzy),  and jelly beans!   ;D

Title: Re: 99 Rules for Fail-safe camping
Post by DentonDoc on Mar 1st, 2007 at 11:32am
First ... FANTASTIC JOB!   [smiley=thumbup.gif] [smiley=thumbup.gif] [smiley=thumbup.gif]  As soon as this drifts off the first page, its being added to the "HOT SPOT."  It should be a "first read" by anyone becoming interested in canoe camping and a "refresher course" for those who have been doing it for a while.  I was even wondering if Stu might be interested in publishing the list in an upcoming BWJ issue.


intrepid_camper wrote on Mar 1st, 2007 at 11:13am:
RE: coffee....maybe we should have said "don't forget your favorite 'comfort' food".


I was thinking the same thing ... "comfort food."  

Also, I've been taking my "pee bottle" into the tent for about the last 10 years.  My version is more like two zip lock baggies (one inside the other) that are "air tested" before I crawl in each evening.  It doesn't always get used, but as you get older the urge to go in the middle of the night is more pronounced.  And it almost never fails ... the urge will hit in the middle of an overnight rain storm ... maybe its the sound of the rain drops hitting the tent's rain fly.

And yes, the container get's sent outside the tent after use.  (My long time traveling partner DIDN'T do that once to disasterous consequences.  The line by Alan Shepard from the "Apollo 13" movie comes to mind.)  Its dumped in deep in the woods the next AM, rinsed and placed over a small bushy branch to dry (if a layover day) ... and I've yet to loose one, even on a windy day.

dd

Title: Re: 99 Rules for Fail-safe camping
Post by starwatcher on Mar 1st, 2007 at 2:50pm
Excellant list!!!  Just one question to pose concerning Rule 86- "Don't dispose of fish guts in or near camp."  

My thoughts are that I would leave fish guts at the shoreline, away from camp so various critters would clean them up (seagulls appear almost instantaneously).   I wouldn't throw them way out into deep water because on really clear lakes I think they wouldn't get cleaned up very rapidly.  Does anyone else want to share their opinion on this?

starwatcher

Title: Re: 99 Rules for Fail-safe camping
Post by lotalota on Mar 1st, 2007 at 3:07pm
Re: Fish guts

Personally, I like to leave the fish guts near my campsite along the shore.  I always put them in a position where I can watch the gulls and eagles come in and fight over them, while I am frying up dinner.  Not once in my memory can I recall fish guts lasting longer than 30 minutes from when I put them there.

Now I do understand that QP is telling folks to dump the guts into deep water.  The reason being that they feel that leaving the guts out creates an unnatural population of gulls in the park.  I'm sort of torn on this.  I like watching them eat the guts, and really enjoy the game of seeing how long it takes from when I pull out the fillet knife and I spot one flying in.  But if it is bad for the system, I guess I'll learn to dump them.

Title: Re: 99 Rules for Fail-safe camping
Post by solotripper on Mar 1st, 2007 at 6:33pm
lotalota,

i'm confused on the gulls issue :-? :-?
There MUST be a sizable resident gull population in the Park on any given day??
Like you mentioned, I've never had fish guts last more that a few minutes after the first gull come's in.
i guess what I'm asking is how that practice brings in a unnatural population into park??
Do the gulls get on the GULLCELL, and call there buddies outside the park and tell them about the meal they've found??
Not trying to be funny(well maybe a little), but I thought gulls are in the park because there is a abundant food source not dependent on the occasional fishermen's gut pile??
IS there science behind this or just speculation??
ANY QJ biologists out there, I would like to know your thoughts on this??

Title: Re: 99 Rules for Fail-safe camping
Post by lotalota on Mar 1st, 2007 at 6:53pm
solotripper,

I'm not sure where I saw or heard that about the guts in the water.  I remember a ranger telling it to me, and it may have been in the '06 park guide.

I'm not sure if there is any science behind it, or if it is just someone's theory.

Title: Re: 99 Rules for Fail-safe camping
Post by BTravlin on Mar 1st, 2007 at 9:35pm
IC, you mention changing into your comfort clothes. I too change out of my travel / daytime clothes after dinner and put on my clean comfy camp jammies. I put the travel clothes on again in the morning. My camp jammies do pickup the fire odor but stay clean other than that. Does anybody else do this?

Title: Re: 99 Rules for Fail-safe camping
Post by Kingfisher on Mar 2nd, 2007 at 12:13am

Quote:
i'm confused on the gulls issue

My understanding of the gull, eagle, osprey eating fishgut pile issue is this: By fisherman leaving remains for these birds (and the occasional bear, weasel,otter etc.) we are changing their natural behavior and likely turning these species into beggars. Think parking lot at Wrigley Field. Feeding the animals in the park is not a good thing especially if it happens over and over and over. It has the end result of habituating animals to people. Same argument can be made for keeping your food pack from bears.
It took me awhile to get comfortable with the idea of sinking the carcasses but it does make some sense. I normally clean fish well away from camps and on the ride back to camp let the remains go in a very deep area.
Alternatively, I believe the USF is recommending burying remains far back in the woods.

Title: Re: 99 Rules for Fail-safe camping
Post by kanoes on Mar 2nd, 2007 at 12:22am
USFS IS preaching that KF.  more food....healthier gulls.  healthier gulls.....successful breeding.   successful breeding.....more gulls.   more gulls.....less loons.   and loon protection is the reason for the new angle on fish remains.

thats about the just of it.   Jan

Title: Re: 99 Rules for Fail-safe camping
Post by lotalota on Mar 2nd, 2007 at 9:35am
Jan,

I guess that makes sense.  I looked around on the web for some data, but couldn't find anything that seemed close.  I know that QP and BWCAW don't have the funds to do proper wildlife surveys and make these decisions on sound scientific data.  I guess that's why it is a "recommendation" and not a "regulation".

Personally, I'm going to continue to put the guts at the shore.  I just plain enjoy watching the seagulls come in, fight, then freak out when the eagle flies over, run away, and then ultimately watch the eagle fly off with the carcass.

Title: Re: 99 Rules for Fail-safe camping
Post by intrepid_camper on Mar 2nd, 2007 at 10:30am
We have always put the fish guts on shore, away from camp.  We also do this at home at the lake cabin too...they disappear more or less instantly, taken by gulls and eagles, sometimes four legged furry friends too.  
We cut the fish remains into manageable pieces for the birds.  Otherwise they try to pick them up, haul them into the water, and eventually lose them.  Once they sink, the gulls and eagles cannot get them, and then the guts are in the water and not too far from camp...defeating the purpose.
There was a long detailed discussion on this board, about a year ago ?  Thread is probably somewhere.  In it we discussed putting them in deep water...apparently on Trout lakes the Trout will make good use of them.  IC

Title: Re: 99 Rules for Fail-safe camping
Post by solotripper on Mar 2nd, 2007 at 3:17pm
lots good ideas regarding fish remains, i guess as long as its a guideline, not mandatory, then I'll probably continue to deposit on shore, down from camp until/if it becomes a law?? I can't see to much of a difference between leaving your fish guts WAY down from camp and burying them way back in the woods?? Unless your digging a real deep hole, the bears will probably find them anyway?? Seems like the different entities would get on the same page and so could we??
I also think group size has a significant impact on turning wild critters into campsite beggars which no one wants >:( >:(
Traveling solo and using just a conservation license, I rarely have two carcass's and if I get a laker, its just one.
However, one year on Quetico L, I passed a party of 8, that had a mess of Pike that they were filleting out and tossing the carcass's on the rocks in front of there camp :o :o
I stopped to chat and mentioned it, and they told me that they were hoping to get some Bear pics and acted like that was the norm for them??
I just said I hope you have your packs hung high, and they pointed up to there camp, where they had taken a downed tree(i hope) and lashed it between two other tree's and had there food packs hanging about 6 ft off the ground ;D ;D
I WONDER if they got there Bear pics they so badly wanted :( :(

Title: Re: 99 Rules for Fail-safe camping
Post by Ancient_Angler on Mar 2nd, 2007 at 5:11pm
Not in Quetico, but elsewhere in Ontario, my camp was visited by a bear that dug up fish remains -- about 20 feet from where Dad and I were getting ready for bed -- that others buried about 4 feet deep. I don't give a hoot how many bear pictures someone wants -- it's never safe to attract them to camp.

Tim

Title: Re: 99 Rules for Fail-safe camping
Post by db on Mar 7th, 2007 at 3:09pm
So I thought of 3 more maybe. Are any of these already on the list?

- Keep packs as low as possible in the canoe for better stability and less wind resistance.
- The stern paddler gets out of the canoe first whenever possible.
- Be kind to your canoe. It's your only ride home. When approaching a beaver dam, remember you're not paddling a teeter-totter.

Any more before it gets carved in stone?

Title: Re: 99 Rules for Fail-safe camping
Post by solotripper on Mar 7th, 2007 at 4:12pm

db wrote on Mar 7th, 2007 at 3:09pm:

- The stern paddler gets out of the canoe first whenever possible.


DB, I have a question regarding the stern paddler out first rule??
WHEN, I paddled with a partner, I usually had the stern position, since I was heavier and had more experience.
When we came into a put-in, before we bottomed out, I would have my bowman step out, while I braced canoe with paddle and then he straddled bow, steadying the canoe for me to step out??
WAS, that all wrong or just different strokes for different folks??

Title: Re: 99 Rules for Fail-safe camping
Post by db on Mar 7th, 2007 at 11:08pm
Different strokes and it depends on the landing but in general, since the bow seat is closer to the center, the canoe is more stable when the bow paddler is alone in it. It's not such a tipsy weathervane, plus, the stern paddler has a lot more control when approaching shore than the bow paddler. Stern paddler steps out and then moves the canoe into position so the bow paddler can step out. No brace required, the canoe never touches anything but water and doing it is a lot faster then typing it. ;)

Title: Re: 99 Rules for Fail-safe camping
Post by solotripper on Mar 8th, 2007 at 4:37pm
i SEE what your saying DB, THANKS ;D ;D

Title: Re: 99 Rules for Fail-safe camping
Post by Kingfisher on Mar 8th, 2007 at 11:46pm
Check out the tips on the   (You need to Login or Register. Way to go db, IC and all contributors!

Title: Re: 99 Rules for Fail-safe camping
Post by db on Mar 9th, 2007 at 1:38am
  (You need to Login or Register.

There are no numbers just in case someone comes up with anything important.

Title: Re: 99 Rules for Fail-safe camping
Post by flpaddler on Mar 9th, 2007 at 5:08am
[smiley=thumbup.gif] Cool!  [smiley=dankk2.gif]

Title: Re: 99 Rules for Fail-safe camping
Post by Wenonah Rider on Mar 9th, 2007 at 7:56am
[smiley=thumbup.gif] [smiley=thumbup.gif] Way cool  QJ just keeps getting better.  Thank you db, thank you inuks and thank you all who contributed to the list

WR

Title: Re: 99 Rules for Fail-safe camping
Post by Ancient_Angler on Mar 9th, 2007 at 10:54am
Very nice job. A little long to have tattoed on my chest, but....

Tim

Title: Re: 99 Rules for Fail-safe camping
Post by screamingwindigo on Mar 10th, 2007 at 10:57am
Very impressive contribution.
[smiley=dankk2.gif]
SW

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