25 PFD's (Read 17961 times)
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Re: PFD's
Reply #20 - Mar 12th, 2010 at 7:18am
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I thought their purpose was (You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)! (Green Sterns under the conveniently placed, spare paddle.) Yeah, I'm not that bad anymore. I at least keep it handy and not bungied down.  Smiley

I have always worn my seat belt. In MY car, seat belts are mandatory for everyone. It keeps me in place on the corners and I feel naked and vulnerable w/o it.

In a canoe however, it's a personal preference. The PFD goes on only when waves warrant it. If I'm wearing it I probably also have a painter tied to myself so the canoe can't blow away from me.

I might float these days but when I bought mine I sank like a rock and I got a bright yellow one to make it easy to spot my body - saving retrieval costs. It's comfy but does interfere with other things I may have in my shirt pockets plus, to me, it's a "feel good" false sense of security. It does have my ditch kit in it though so....

You like wearing yours - good for you! If not, that's fine too. Like I'd notice or care. There was one day when I overheard the very young son of a father and son team say: "He's not wearing his...." I put down the paddle and put it on. I then waved hello as in thanks for the reminder. I get the example thing but I took it off again when the kid was out of sight.

If I had to choose one or the other, I feel a lot "safer" with the painter tied to me than the with PFD - on, buckled, zipped and cinched tight. Within easy reach works for both most of the time.
  
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mastertangler
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Re: PFD's
Reply #21 - Mar 12th, 2010 at 12:52pm
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A friend of a friends Dad was a policeman in a major metropolitan area for many years. He remarked that he had never responded to a major traffic accident in which a fatality had happened where the victim had been wearing a seatbelt. I suspect (and I bet statistics will bear this out) that a similar comparison can be made with PFD's. How many drowning victims had a PFD on? Not many I suspect.

Is there a more inherently dangerous watercraft than a canoe? ( yea I know, the Titanic and rafts put together with vines come to mind) But you get my drift. I know many of you are very experienced and feel confident of evaluating risk. There is always the unexpected though. I have occasionally wondered how many drowning are as a result of a medical condition? Vertigo, fainting, heart attack or stroke (God Forbid) to name a few. These can come on suddenly and if you or your partner find yourself far from shore, capsized as a direct result of the body giving out.......Unlikely perhaps. But I suspect it happens more often than anyone would think and the ability to determine wether the condition happened before or after the drowning would be difficult or impossible to ascertain. This is just one way a boat could conceivably go over. Of course there are the usual suspects. Big waves and throw in a little "side current" and bingo. I had not intended to get morbid but rather make a point. As Snow Dog has already pointed out the consequences are potentially catastrophic for you and loved ones.

My little boat handles rough water amazingly well. It just bobs right along. I have skirted the shores of Bayley while tandems stacked up waiting for the evening calm. I have had big following seas push me the entire length of Argo. But my wake up call came on a perfectly flat portage landing. A rounded rock had caught my boat amidship and gave a false sense of security. I was completely stunned at how quickly I was in the water. I know this isn't a very good example but that feeling of being stunned and surprised at being in the water would probably be a shared trait among those that find themselves in H2O.

Earlier I had said I was not an advocate of an inflatable. I will be one now to those of you that for various reasons choose not to wear a PFD. You REALLY don't even know you have the thing on. It will be there for you when you need it. If you can swing it I suggest the higher quality. I like the self inflating hydrostatic model I have. Water pressure is required to activate it. There is a clear window with a color code. Green is go. With 35lbs of flotation (you need at least 8 to stay afloat) you are good to go even offshore in the salty stuff. The Coast Guard wears them so I think if you get a quality brand you would be hard pressed to go wrong. Think about it. Snow Dog put it best.
  
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marlin55388
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Re: PFD's
Reply #22 - Mar 12th, 2010 at 3:04pm
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"Expect the unexpected"
  
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nctry_Ben
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Re: PFD's
Reply #23 - Mar 12th, 2010 at 4:06pm
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On the seatbelt thing... years ago I was broadsided by a drunk woman who ran a stoplight doing they estimated about 70 MPH in a 35. Had I been wearing my seatbelt I would be not writing this now. That being said, I wear mine now as a first responder... The hardest thing to wittness is death... espesially when it could have been avoided. Same with PFD's, as I get older I realize I'm not the swimmer I once was although I sometimes forget I do a better job at wearing it. It helped a lot when I got one I was comfortable in vs a walmart just to have in the boat to be legal one. I live on a lake and when my grand kids visit I plan to teach them good habits as it's taking me a life time to break the bad ones.
  
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grizzlylarso
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Re: PFD's
Reply #24 - Mar 12th, 2010 at 5:31pm
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I hardly ever used to wear mine. I thought it was too uncomfortable and I'm a pretty good swimmer and quite capable in a canoe. But then when I started taking occasional groups of kids, scouts and church, I figured I should also be wearing one since I was making the kids wear one. I just didn't want to be a hypocrate. I eventually but a slightly better mesh top vest and got used to it. Now it feels strange without it and I have a hard time not wearing it.
  
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azalea
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Re: PFD's
Reply #25 - Mar 13th, 2010 at 12:29am
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Quote:
I suspect (and I bet statistics will bear this out) that a similar comparison can be made with PFD's. How many drowning victims had a PFD on? Not many I suspect.


The same logic can be applied to whether or not wears a PFD while swimming in a pool.

This is not saying the risk in a pool is equivalent to the risk of a canoist.  it just is pointing out that line of reasoning does not hold water (pun intended).
  
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mastertangler
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Re: PFD's
Reply #26 - Mar 13th, 2010 at 1:08am
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(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
  
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Riversend
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Re: PFD's
Reply #27 - Mar 13th, 2010 at 1:21am
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Mastertangler: "to infinity and beyond" as quoted by Buzz....

What would Buzz do?   Smiley........ ROCK ON        Smiley
  
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Akula
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Re: PFD's
Reply #28 - Mar 13th, 2010 at 5:54am
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I don't always wear a PFD in my fishing boat, even though I should. I have one within reach, however, and I use another square foam float to sit on. Not that either would do me any good if I were by myself, and I happened to fall into the river or the notoriously choppy lake that I usually fish on.

When I'm in my canoe, however, I always have a PFD on and strapped up properly. I had my first canoe mishap when I was very young, and have had several since, though none were serious and none were recent. However, I've come to respect how little it takes to tip a canoe, especially a tandem, where you don't have control of the other person's body and reactions (another good reason for a solo). A few of those mishaps could have been worse than they turned out, had nobody been wearing PFD's.

Another point of concern is the flotation factor of my little Royalex canoe. When it fills with water, and I don't get out of it, it sinks like a rock. Filled  with gear on a cold northern lake, alone and miles from any sort of help, that could be a disaster. I grew up paddling my old man's freight-tanker Old Town, which would still float even when full of water and several giggling kids, so having my Royalex boat sink underneth me was a sobering experience. Especially since I conducted the test after my solo trip last spring, during which I rode her, overloaded, through some choppy spring-time water that in retrospect, I probably should have waited out and avoided.

I'm upgrading my tiny little Royalex Sandpiper this spring, so hopefully the slightly larger boat will have better flotation should the unthinkable happen. I haven't driven a kevlar, so I can't speak for those, but I encourage everyone to bring their canoe to the beach one day this summer, and get used to how it reacts to being rocked, tipped, and swamped. You might be surprised at the results.

It was mentioned earlier in this thread that being alone doesn't leave a person with a very big margin for error, and I couldn't agree more. Being solo anywhere changes all the rules. Even if one wears a PFD religiously, is always careful and vigilant on the trail, and carries out all tasks in camp with that certain level of perfection gained through experience, suffice to say, sh** still happens. Anything one can do to lower the level of risk, or to better prepare for the unexpected, is time and effort well spent.

Two friends of mine, who accidentally tipped their canoe while evening fishing in the BW in late fall, a few miles away and on a different lake from their camp, will tell you that wearing a PFD and having a ditch-kit on your person are two of the best things you can do "just in case." They didn't have either, and they owe their lives to their third travel partner, who happened to be an EMT. The EMT "had a feeling" that they had gone in the water as the darkness fell and they hadn't returned to camp, and through training, intuition, and luck, he was able to find them - shivering violently and trying to paddle back to camp with their hands - and do all the right things to get them warm and dry.

These guys were all experienced in wilderness. One of them taught at several ELC's, is currently a commercial pilot, and has summited several peaks in North America and greater Asia. The other is an avid climber, hunter, and paddler.

The moral of the story? Confidence is no excuse for complacency.
  
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db
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Re: PFD's
Reply #29 - Mar 13th, 2010 at 10:08am
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However, I've come to respect how little it takes to tip a canoe, especially a tandem, where you don't have control of the other person's body and reactions (another good reason for a solo).

Yeah, as a solo paddler most of the time, you gotta do something really dumb to flip a canoe on flat water - there's no help - blame. Somehow I feel like I'm an expert 'cause I did it all on my own on my first or second spring trip.

Years later in august w/ my own boat, I went out (with the PFD ON) and tried to flip it in a moderate surf blowing into a sandy beach. I couldn't do it! Seriously, and I'd never paddle that boat empty any any other time. It's tippy when empty. My timing is bad though and with more experience I think I could use a wave to flip it. I could fall out and it would take on some water but I guess canoes vary wildly in what it takes to actually flip one. My nemesis was oil canned and I got out once I realized what was happening. Canoe design has come a long way.

My favorite time of year to do a trip is Spring and it's what I know best, when it freeken hurts to wash your hands in the lake. Wearing a PFD in spring would be a waste of time if paddling the same courses I now do in august. That's why I say they give a false sense of security. Hey, be careful out there! The livin is easy in August.

Yes, wearing one is good but consider it just another tool in the drawer. You wear your placebo and hooray that's grate Wink but think of what happens after you pull that tool out of that drawer and actually use it. How fast can you swim in it.... Then what? How long can you bob around and wait for help to paddle up and rescue your butt.

Take away? Confidence is no excuse for complacency any more than wisdom trumps knowledge. Yeah, I'm old get confused all the time. Just think a few moves ahead so when mother nature says "Check" your next move is a given.
  
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