As a figurative packhorse on and off the trail in my earlier outdoor years I am slowly coming to the conclusion that, even though I like "my stuff," I had better ease up a bit on the weight of my gear.

With that thought in mind I decided a down bag was required. ( That thought initially put there my Marlin and re-enforced by SD and KF) A Go-Light bag was soon in the mail. But wait, what was this.....SD was trumpeting his Big Agnes bag and when KF seconded it the Go-Light  was soon happily traveling back home.

I settled on the 30 degree Fish hawk and the insulated pad. This seems to be a perfect set-up for june -sept. The bag Itself has quite a few additional features which makes it a good value. The neat thing was how the pad slides into the rear of a specially designed slot underneath the bag. This keeps the bag continually centered over the pad. Like to twist and turn at night?........You won't be in a knot in the morning struggling to find the zipper.

That is especially important with a bag that seems to be comprised of mostly air. Man is it light. And coupled with a compression stuff sack I  save a lot of space.

I picked up the insulated pad mostly because I liked the thougt of some additional protection while I was folding it up. Spring a leak with this pad and you will for all intents and purposes be sleeping on the ground. The pad itself packs up to the size of a large grapefruit and I think is about a pound. That is huge weight and space savings over my luxury edition therm-a-rest.

Negatives? The 30 degree rating is a bit generous. I'm not sure I would be excited about sleeping in the low 40s with it. But I'm always prepared, however, with additional long underwear and fleece hat and fleece "wading socks" for nippy weather. The pad takes a bit of lung power to inflate. Yes it's a bit additional work compared to the therm but with the space and weight saving for a comparable good sleep it's no contest in my book. The pad doesn't break down as fast either. One trick I have found is to release the valve and go and have breakfast. She will be well on her way to seeing things your way.

I strongly suggest you house your bag while on the trail in a waterproof stuff sack. I use a waterproof compression sack which I snug only gently. This of course helps to insure your bag won't get soaked. If it does it's useless and could put you in trouble. So, make sure your tent zipper is shut while your out fishing.
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Yo Ben,
I think some of the Quiet Journey community has the Lost Ranger bag (15 degree). I didn't think the price was out of line for a down bag at $220 considering all the features. The Pad will run a bit as well.

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I have the Lost Ranger bag and the Air Core insulated mattress but I have never slept in it. My wife uses it all summer long. With this system I/she would highly recommend an insulated mattress.
When we camp together she sleeps comfortably inside her Big Agnes setup while I use a 40 degree synthetic bag on top of an uninsulated Air Core and rarely get inside the bag. Go figure. I do spend most nights chasing my mattress around the tent, she never does.

Our 5 year old mattress has failed. It developed multiple seepage type leaks all on one end. We returned it to Big Agnes and are awaiting their evaluation and decision.

nctry_Ben wrote on Aug 15^th, 2010 at 5:55pm:

I don't know what the warranty is but when I reported the failure to Big Agnes they agreed to have a look at the mattress and then decide if it qualified for replacement.

Glad to hear it when a manufacturer actually stands by the product and is willing to learn from failures rather than accusing the customer of maltreatment.

Joe_Schmeaux wrote on Aug 19^th, 2010 at 6:04pm:

Great stuff.

I do take "Preacher" exception to the concept of something getting accidentally wet.  In 20 years of tripping I've never gotten anything wet that shouldn't/can't get wet.  It's all in how you pack.  If you don't waterproof your gear that shouldn't/can't get wet, you're asking for trouble.  It's no accident that my bed clothes & sleeping bag don't get wet, it's by design & intent & planning & preparation.

You can die of hypothermia in midsummer.
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"...the water was an uncommonly warm 21 C."
The weather was similarly warm, above 15C.

I used the BA Insulated Air Core on my recent trip.  It was awesome.  To the point where I want to convert to the BA System as soon as I have the cash.

Very warm.  On warm nights I used my sleeping bag unzipped as a blanket.

Very comfortable.  Great support when sleeping on my back.  My hips never touched cold ground when sleeping on my side.

I really like the logic behind the system.  Sleeping bags are useless for ground insulation since it's all compressed by my considerable weight.  I don't get any benefit from 1/3 of my sleeping bag, but I'm dealing with the weight & volume of that useless 1/3.  As a tosser&turner I do slide off my pad and my mummy-style bag gets twisted about.

And the Big Agnes setup look tempting! I'm also considering switching to the Air Core mat as well- glad to hear that others are happy with it.  I'm willing to pack a bit more for comfort, but my luxury thermarest weighs a ton and takes up too much space- one area I'd like to downsize- might help get my partner and I down to 1 trip each across the portage!  (I can dream, can't I??)

waterlily

Wally13
I wish I had a dollar for every time my wife has said, "whew, you are a hot box". When I paddle and portage more often than not you will find me wearing a visor so I don't overheat and self combust. So I am in sympatico with you on the overheating issue.

So take it from me and get the fish hawk 30 degree bag. I too almost got the 40 degree bag for the identical reason but purchased the fish hawk and am so glad I didn't opt for the 40 bag.

First off, the rating system is flawed........as in overly optimistic. There is no way I would want to be in my 30 degree bag in 30 degree weather. Trust me. I had it in the low 40's this fall and while I stayed warm because of fleece hat, fleece socks and silk underwear, I was on the verge.

I also used it in the "Q" during early July and it was perfect. As some who have experience here on QJ have already suggested be sure and wear some type of underclothing at night lest the oils/dirt/grime/mud/bug spray/blood/fish slime/etc. soil your inner sanctuary.

Oh, one last bit of advice.........when you roll your mat be careful to allow time for the trapped air to escape the valve. There are murmuring of air leaks at the ends. My suspicion, just a hunch mind you, is that inordinate amounts of pressure are being exerted when rolling the mat.

Wait a minute, how can you put too much pressure on an inflated mat when you are letting the air out of it. It's only your body weight that you are using to help force the air out, the same body weight that is fully on the mat while you sleep with no relief valve open.

Whoops my bad...........ST, why not just leave the valve open during the entire process? I'm not getting that.  

I know your mostly a sharp guy and if there's a better way I want to know.

I'm kinda like dd above.  After my first roll to get most of the air out I'll do it again & put a rock or other weight on it while I do other things.

I'm with you DB on over thinking the rolling aspect as far as opening and closing of valves. That thought occurred to me very early on but the amount that seeps back in seems inconsequential.

I beg to differ, however, on allowing time for the air to escape from a BA pad (although a full minute is probably overstating things). The difference between how quickly air evacuates the therm is considerable compared to the BA. The end result is an extremely compressed package  with high PSI near the end of the rolling cycle with the BA pad. Something is causing the ends to blow out. My understanding is the leaks are occurring :question along the length of the pad which would be consistent with my hypothesis.


Again, I could be mistaken but the failure of any pad, BUT especially the BA system, could be a trip buster (at least for me..........I require a decent nights sleep to recoup). With that in mind an extra, shall we say, 30 seconds may prove exceedingly prudent.


You have me thinking I must be a rather dainty fellow with my silk underclothes when it is time to turn in.    

dd,
Explained my thinking better than I could. Being self inflating, once you open valve, the partially deflated bag does exactly what it's supposed to do.
When I roll my pad for second time, I roll and with both knees, kneel on it forcing as much air out as possible. Once I get the air in last 1/4 of mat, I open valve and continue until the pad is as compressed as I can get it.

DD's observation about the air being sucked back in on the second roll is why I do it that way. I found out that at least for me, I got a much tighter roll than if I opened valve in the beginning and rolled with just my hands.
Your results might be different than mine. Try it both ways and decide what you prefer.

I'd be interested in that too.
I've never been disappointed in anything I've gotten thru Cabelas, but after reading OS's post, I went to their website and compared the XPG brand, side by side with the Thermarest brand.

I don't know who makes them for Cabelas, but looking at things other than just the cheaper cost, it seems they have issues?

The reviews I read talked about de-lamination/hard inflation and slippery surface. One mentioned buying the Big Agnes system instead.
I hope someone here can rebut or confirm that.

They rate the Thermarest- Neo bag 5 stars, but the price is steep.

Too many pads.....

I must confess that in my search for decent sleep I have collected quite a number of pads including 3 thermarest, a BA insulated Air core and an Exped downmat 9. I like the standard thermarest for ease of use and warmth, but tending to sleep on my side, I wake with sore hips. I bought the Big Agnes to reduce weight and pack size - it is quite comfortable, but I find blowing it up to be a chore- it's size and weight and slightly more padding than the thermarest gave it favor- I did find that below 30 degrees it did not seem to insulate as well. Last year I bought a thermarest Trail Pro- another 1/2 inch of cushion over the standard and no penalty in weight or bulk- however despite it's extra thickness it allows more cold to come through than the standard.

This year a friend convinced me to try an Exped. It has an integrated pump (not as hassle free as the thermarest but much easier than the Big Agnes). It is more comfortable than any pad I've used, but considerably more bulky than the Big Agnes. It is amazingly warm. On my last outing I had quite a few nights in the twenties but used the bag only as a blanket- to get into it was to roast.

Anyone that was/is interested in the Big Agnes Lost Ranger 15 down sleeping bag - it's on sale thru  11/29 for 149.99 during the REI Winter sale.  I've had my combo for about 3 years and it's great.  BA is about the roomiest mummy-type bag out there...great for "rollers".

btw....they have an Attic Sale on Dec. 4th...see your local store for the details.

portage dog

butthead wrote on Oct 29^th, 2010 at 5:00pm:


BH? Same tent (volume of space to heat) and time of year (similar ground temps)?

Specs I found, Thermarest TrailPro @ 2" and ProLite @ 1.5" thick were the same r value 3.8. With the BA Insulated AirCore only slightly warmer r value of 4.1.
Exped DownMat r values are much warmer, 7cm thick (r 5.9) & 9cm thick (r 8).

But I think the old standard Thermarests are fool proof too.

I've heard of failures for Exped too. One guy I know is on his 3rd one. Another guy swears by his BA Insulated AirCore, but he had to rig a bag type pump. So where's the big weight savings then? More comfortable, maybe,,,pack space, yes. He did notice what he thought was a leak, but was really just an air temperature change. Same as airbags in a whitewater boat after hitting cold water and later re-inflating tight in the warm sunshine.

I picked up a 15 deg BA bag and I guess I'll need to do some pre-trip experiments. From what I've read online, sleeping bag temperature ratings are standard from brand to brand. The material against your skin can feel very different though.

"BH? Same tent (volume of space to heat) and time of year (similar ground temps)? " yes CCS Lean1+ used year round, BA mattress and Lost Ranger for 5 years, Exped last year.
BA Lost Ranger has been updated since I bought mine, bafles over the chest area now run the long way instead of accross the chest (allowed down to shift to the sides).
My Exped 9 Downmat has a built in pump.

butthead

Awesome, we should adopt their existing standards.  I'll be sure to ask when I'm next buying a bag, which is soon as I need one for next year.

Take a look at the Big Agnes website for bags on sale right now.  They have wide bags, i.e. pad is 25" wide.

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New model sale, now all baffles run lengthwise.

Mad_Mat, My favorite thing about the BA bag style is the integrated pad sleeve. And my "Lost Ranger" old style has draft tubes on both sides that mate up to, slightly overlap the pad sleeve.

butthead

Cold feet? Have Santa bring you some of these.

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Don't know why the link did not work correctly.  The combo I linked had a coupon on mine that brought the price down to $117.25.